|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 5:13:50 AM
|
|
|
onso
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
|
hi
I have been doing a research on the new earth and the new heavens and i am a little confused
* 2 Peter 3:13 says
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
Are we going to be with God in heaven or are we going to occupy this new earth.
Thx
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 6:25:18 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
quote:
Are we going to be with God in heaven or are we going to occupy this new earth. Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
It looks like the new earth will be part of Heaven, so I would say both.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 9:44:31 AM
|
|
|
RJR_fan
Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
|
quote:
Are we going to be with God in heaven or are we going to occupy this new earth.
See 2 Cor. 5:17 -- Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things are passed away. Behold all things are become new.
Hebrews describes the Hebraic order, with its temple and in-house slaughterhouse as obsolete, passing away. Decrepit. In Revelation, "He that sat upon the throne said 'Behold, I make all things new.'"
Since the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, we live in a different universe. The power released upon this planet by our Lord's ascension, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, continues to renew life wherever it flows. Ezekiel, BTW, is the template for Revelation. Divide both books into 50 chunks, and you'll see what I mean. In both cases, at the climax of the story, a supernatural river flows from God's Throne, and transforms everything.
Much of what God does is definitive, progressive, and final. We were made holy when Jesus died on the cross for us. We are being made holier as we walk with our Lord day by day. We will finally be completely victorious over the world, the flesh, and the devil on the last Day, when we are raised from the dead.
I'm glad we have a piece of the action in this present age.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 11:15:07 AM
|
|
|
Giulia
Posts: 930
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: offline
|
This earth shall be transformed. Just like we are born again and transformed, so the earth shall be. Planets have always represented people. Even God referred to them when He was talking about the ancestors of Abraham and Joseph referred to them when he had his dream about the sun, moon and stars bowing to him. The earth was flooded with water first. It will be and is being burned now. This is a picture of what happens in baptism and the new birth and subsequent fire that is lit as a result. First the cleansing of the Adamic nature happens with water. Then the fire lights and burns and transforms us, gradually changing us more into His likeness.
_____________________________
Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 11:50:35 AM
|
|
|
LCannon
Posts: 1224
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: offline
|
RE: Revelation 21:2(in part)-'...The New Jerusalem is[will be]the habitation, the eternal home, prepared for the church(in his opinion). The Lord Jesus said: "I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:2-3). You could not have a more lovely or more appropriate picture given. We have seen in Rev. 19:7-8 that ushering in the millennial period, actually before Christ returned to the earth, was the marriage of the Lamb, and the bride was the church.'(JVernon McGee-'Thru the Bible' Vol. 5)
Also, he feels the 'new earth' will the habitation of OT saints, before the 'last' Pentecost in Acts 2.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 11/25/2008 12:01:22 PM >
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/25/2008 12:29:39 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
McGee was a pretty good teacher, but on certain points he let replacement theology come thru.
We and the OT saints are all together.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/26/2008 4:29:00 AM
|
|
|
onso
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
|
I really dont think we r living in the new earth now cos 2 Peter 3:10-13 talks abt the earth getting burned up and all that but wat i really wants to stress is the chap 13,But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
I dont think righteous dwells now on this our earth
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/26/2008 4:35:56 AM
|
|
|
Giulia
Posts: 930
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: offline
|
quote:
I dont think righteous dwells now on this our earth
How about the people of God?
_____________________________
Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/26/2008 10:44:04 AM
|
|
|
onso
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
|
there is no doubt abt it there r righteous pple in this world,but that doesnt mean righteous dwells here. not with all the evil going on around us.in this "new earth",there will be no police or army or fear of any war, righteous will dwell there cos
".........God himself will be with them and be their God" Rev. 21:1-4
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/28/2008 3:56:12 PM
|
|
|
RJR_fan
Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
|
Attention, Moderator!
The post moved on me again! I thought we were talking about the glorious present realities of salvation, and addressed the topic as such!
Please note that I did not post IN the end-times forum, or ABOUT end-times topics!
< Message edited by RJR_fan -- 11/29/2008 10:08:40 AM >
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/28/2008 6:28:53 PM
|
|
|
makarizo
Posts: 2997
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
man was made in God's image, man was placed in a garden he got lonely, and out of his rib God made woman, called her a helper. and told them to be fruitful and multiply, and to have dominion over the earth.
will man have dominion on the new Earth? will there be a chance for man to get lonely? will he need a helper?
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/29/2008 2:04:00 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shabbat shalom, everyone.
The problem with the original question is bound in the definition of "heaven."
"Heaven" is NOT what most Christians believe "Heaven" to be. The word translated "heaven" in the New Testament is "ouranos" which literally means "sky."
A good proof for this can be found in Matthew 16:1-4:
Matt 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV
Check it out for yourselves in a Greek New Testament or using a study help like a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, but the word translated as "heaven" in verse 1 and as "sky" in verses 2 and 3 is the SAME GREEK WORD "ouranos!" (I find it interesting, by the way, that Yeshua` [Jesus] did not refuse them an answer; He just gave them an answer they were not expecting! They asked for a sign, and He gave them "Red sky at night is a sailor's delight; red sky at morning is a sailor's sure warning!" Funny!)
When a "new heaven and a new earth" are formed, it's a "new sky and a new earth!" Basically, God will reform not only the old earth into a new earth, but will also reform the old atmosphere into a new atmosphere!
The same fact can be discovered for the Old Testament as well. The Hebrew word translated "heaven" is the word "shamayim," and one can find that it's the same as the "air" right in the first chapter of Genesis! The Hebrew word "shamayim" can be found in Genesis 1:1, 8, 9, 14, 15, 17, 20, 26, 28, and 30. Verses 1, 8, 9, 14, 15, 17, and 20 all have the word translated "Heaven" or "heaven" in the KJV; but verses 26, 28, and 30 have the word translated as the "air!" It's the SAME HEBREW WORD!
Look at verse 20:
Gen 1:20
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
KJV
Where do the birds fly? Not in some far-off place called "Heaven!" Not even out among the stars! They fly in our atmosphere--the AIR!
Look at the record of Day 2:
Gen 1:6-8
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
KJV
The word translated "firmament" is the Hebrew word raqiya` which means "expanse of gases" for only gases expand! Read it with these substitutions and see if it doesn't make sense:
Gen 1:6-8
6 And God said, Let there be an expanse of gases in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the expanse of gases, and divided the waters which were under the expanse of gases from the waters which were above the expanse of gases: and it was so.
8 And God called the expanse of gases Air. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
KJV
The only place where it SEEMS like it doesn't make sense at first is on the fourth day:
Gen 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
KJV
The sun, moon, and stars were NOT created in the air or in the atmosphere! That's true, BUT look closer at the words! The words "sun" and "moon" are not found here! In fact, the word that IS used is "LIGHT!" The Hebrew word for "light" is "ma'owr" and it's plural translated "lights" is "ma'owrot." Quite literally, these words have to do with the LIGHT from the source; NOT the source itself! Think about it: God's not going to create stars light-years away and wait for the light to get to earth! (The closest star, the Dog Star, Sirius in Canis Major, is 4.5 light-years from us!)God's not going to create the sun and wait for 8.33 minutes for the light to get to earth! I don't believe that He would even want to wait the 1.5 seconds for the light to get to us from the moon! Instead, He created the light wave-packets known as photons already en route to earth! He indeed created the LIGHT, the electromagnetic radiation, right in the atmosphere! THEN we are told in verse 16, almost as an afterthought, "He made the stars also," where "kowkhaviym" translated "stars" means "orbs" or "round objects" as the sources of the light!
So, the interpretation of "shamayim" meaning "air" can fit here, too!
Going through all the occurrences of these words "shamayim" in the OT and "ouranos" in the NT, I have not found a single occurrence that DEMANDS that they be anything but the sky and the air.
Our future will be on the New Earth, breathing in the New Heaven, and finding all the excitement in the New Jerusalem!
Retrobyter
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/29/2008 3:44:20 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
I find the word atmosphere better understood than air. Means the same thing but atmosphere would envisions a sealed environment which would allow development within. The same that occurs in Gen 1:9. Might not be as biblical but gives me a better vision.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 11/29/2008 10:37:46 PM
|
|
|
ChesterDash
Posts: 89
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
After the resurrection, the dead in Christ go to heaven for a thousand years. After a thousand years the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the earth and the earth is made new.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 1:21:22 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, everyone.
Expanding on what I wrote earlier, it is IMPORTANT that one understand that this Greek word, "ouranos," means "sky" or "atmosphere."
Several years ago when I was doing this word study on "heaven," I looked up EVERY occurrence of "heaven", "air", "heavens", "heavenly", "heavenlies", etc., using Strong's Concordance and discovered that there were other Greek words that were involved in this study. BUT, they did not fit into my notion at the time. I was taught from a very early age that there were three heavens, the heaven of the clouds, the heaven of the stars, and God's abode. (You can find this in the Old Scofield Reference Bible [KJV] on page 1238.)
The other Greek words are "ouranios", "epouranios", "mesouraneema", and "ouranothen."
"Ouranothen" means "from the sky," "ouranios" means "of or belonging to the sky," "mesouraneema" means "in the middle of the sky" or "mid-sky," and "epouranios" means "of or belonging to above the sky." From this study, I discovered that the ONLY word that could possibly mean "Heaven" as most mean the word would have to be "EPouranios" meaning "of or belonging to ABOVE the sky." Problem is this word is SELDOM used in the New Testament! Furthermore, when it IS used (such as in I Cor. 15), it refers to OUTER SPACE where the sun, moon, and stars are! (It is also used for where the New Jerusalem is in Hebrews, the "heavenly city" or the "epouranios city".)
One might think that the Greek words should reflect the Scofield teachings, BUT THEY DON'T!
Now, consider this:
The word used in Rev. 21:1-3 is NOT "epouranios!" The word is "ouranos!" Just as it is in Matt. 16 above!
Rev 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV
Thus, the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of the SKY! If it comes out of the sky or the atmosphere, IT LANDS! There is no middle white area between the blue of the sky and the green of the grass as little children color their pictures! The atmosphere TOUCHES the ground!
Furthermore, look at verse 3. Two things can be seen in this verse: First, the tabernacle (Greek: "skeenee" meaning "tent") is WITH MEN! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! And, "He will dwell WITH THEM!" He will indeed be "Emmanu'el" ("God with us!") And, "God Himself shall be WITH THEM!"
Second, Yochanan (John) said that he "HEARD a great (loud) voice out of the SKY!" This MUST refer to the atmosphere because sound does not travel in a vacuum!
Therefore, for these reasons (and about 12 others that I won't mention at this time), the New Jerusalem DEFINITELY lands on the New Earth.
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 10:55:32 AM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Roy…you have a scientific mind and are technically inclined. Think about the results of a 1400 mile cube or triangle setting on and attached to earth. What would happen to the orbit of earth?
One thing about God…He created the laws of nature and in all cases I can think of He abides by these laws He created. The whole universe seems to operate this way. Not saying He couldn’t change the way things operate but why would He? Also if that 1400 sq mile base set over Israel it would wipe out the complete Mid East.
Now with glorified bodies such as we will have there would be no restrictions of travel between a body in close orbit to earth and that would not change the rules as we know them.
Just thinking out loud here! 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 1:24:28 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Roy…you have a scientific mind and are technically inclined. Think about the results of a 1400 mile cube or triangle setting on and attached to earth. What would happen to the orbit of earth?
One thing about God…He created the laws of nature and in all cases I can think of He abides by these laws He created. The whole universe seems to operate this way. Not saying He couldn’t change the way things operate but why would He? Also if that 1400 sq mile base set over Israel it would wipe out the complete Mid East.
Now with glorified bodies such as we will have there would be no restrictions of travel between a body in close orbit to earth and that would not change the rules as we know them.
Just thinking out loud here!
Bob
Frankly, nothing would happen to the earth's orbit. Our trip around the earth (approximately 584,000,000 miles) would be little affected by the variance of our earth's mass of 6.6 sextillion tons that this "small city" would add! True, it would affect it slightly, perhaps increasing our distance from the sun slightly, but overall, not much change there. The earth's rotation might be more affected, but it would only throw the center of gravity off a couple of miles toward the New Jerusalem where it will be set.
There WILL be consequences in the topology of the earth's crust! The earth's crust will act like "cafeteria jello" (jello that is thicker than that out of the box) when you set a weight on it. It will sink in where the city will sit and will bulge around it. Such a bulge will raise elevations and form mountains that were not there originally. I believe that this may be why there will be "no more sea," speaking directly about the Mediterranean Sea. However, one should also remember that this city will not land until the New Earth and its New Atmosphere are formed after the Global Fire mentioned in Revelation 20 and II Peter 3. "Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE!" Thus, the crust may still be in a state of flux, adjusting to its new dimensions, topology, and position in the solar system. The crust may even be slightly molten, yet! Actually, these may be PERFECT conditions to introduce additional mass!
Assuming a "furlong" (Greek "stadion") that is 660 feet, we are talking about a length, width and height of...
12000 stadia x ..660 ft ...x ..1 mi .. = 1500 mi
.....................1 stadion...5280 ft
(The dots are merely there for positioning and none for decimals.)
Granted, there are other values for a "furlong" (such as one estimate that says it is 582 feet), but this is still fairly conservative. Now, such a massive pyramid is NOT a solid block of stone. I believe, for instance, that the twelve foundations could be foundational LAYERS within the structure, as 12 floors. Thus, we are talking about a floor that takes up 1500 miles / 12 = 125 miles per floor! Within these layers, I would venture to say that there will be thousands of other layers breaking up the vertical distance between floors. Considering that Mount Everest is only about 5.5 miles high, and that planes generally fly well within an 8-mile limit from the surface of the earth with most commercial airlines flying at a cruising altitude of 35,000 feet (6.63 mi), this is a HUGE amount of space! The city will just have considerably less mass than one might be led to believe based on the dimensions.
Also, look at the following verses:
Rev 21:12-13
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
KJV
So, the city is aligned with true north, such that each of the four walls face in one of the four compass directions. This would be EXTREMELY hard to do with a city that is not FOUNDED on the surface of the earth! Note, too, that there are three gates on each of its four sides.
Rev 21:21
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
KJV
Each one of the gates is associated with the street of the city, which would only make sense. I mean, how does one get in and out of this city and on what would they travel when they enter the city?
Rev 21:24-26
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
KJV
How can "the kings of the earth" "bring their glory and honor into it," if the gates are not situated on the surface of the earth? By rocketship?! However, we are told that the nations of them who are rescued "shall walk in the light of it."
Rev 22:1-2
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJV
Now, we come to a SIGNIFICANT reason for believing that the city is both a pyramid and sits on the surface of the earth: If the river flows down the middle of the street in the center of the median where thousands of the species known here only as "the tree of life," where does the river go when it comes to each of the twelve gates? The reason for why the city sits on the surface of the earth should now be apparent.
The reason why I see the city in the basic shape of a pyramid can be discovered by asking oneself, "Where would the throne of God and of the Lamb be situated within the city?" In a cube, one might assume that the throne would be situated at its exact center. However, there would be significant portions of the city that would have to have the river of the water of life PUMPED UPHILL to them! If we are talking about a mountain-shaped pyramid for the shape of the city, one could assume that the throne would be at the pinnacle, within the CAPSTONE (the "head stone of the corner") of the pyramid, and that the river would NATURALLY FLOW DOWNHILL to all portions of the city!
Sorry for going on and on, but as you might be able to see, I've been thinking long and hard about this city for a VERY long time! In fact, I've even written a book on it that is still not published. One of these days, maybe I can get through the "wall of paper mache' " and find out how to get it published. LOL!
Roy (aka Retrobyter)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 6:33:13 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Roy...do we agree that regardless of the shape cube or triangle, the base would be 1400 on each side?
If it were a triangle the equilateral from the center to touch the sides would form a circle of 800 miles dia. Centered on Jerusalem it would cover much of the Mediterranean Sea, all of Syria, extend into Saudi Arabia and, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq. The weight of this object would cause earthquakes. The height of 1400 miles would extend beyond the atmosphere and would drastically change global weather. Of course the three corners would extend out another 400 miles in each direction and that arrangement would cover Iraq and extend into Iran. If it were a cube then the problem would be just that much worse.
Does not the bible describe the temple during the millennium and the division of land around the temple…I need to go back and review Ezekiel and refresh myself on this…anyway how is that going to occur if we have a New Jerusalem setting on top of it? Also the NJ does not possess a temple so there must be a temple located on earth.
If the New Jerusalem orbits the earth, then the height, length and width of the city being equal make sense. The New Jerusalem could very well be spherical. In context of the solar system that God has designed would not this arrangement make more sense as it seems that is the design He has used in the past?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 6:59:55 PM
|
|
|
Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
Joined: 11/11/2008
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
|
For any of you trekkers in here, is it just me or does it seem that the makers/producers of Star Trek ripped off Revelation for their Borg ship design? I just made that connection while reading through this thread. 
In any case, I love reading these threads that ponder further what that part of our future will be like. While we probably won't know any of it until we experience it, I definitely find it comforting to know that I'm not the only one who daydreams about this stuff. 
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 7:06:46 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Day dreaming...who's daydreaming? 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/4/2008 7:43:02 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Much better choice of words Josh...this is important analysis. 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: new earth and new heavens - 12/6/2008 1:54:35 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
Shabbat shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Roy...do we agree that regardless of the shape cube or triangle, the base would be 1400 on each side?
If it were a triangle the equilateral from the center to touch the sides would form a circle of 800 miles dia. Centered on Jerusalem it would cover much of the Mediterranean Sea, all of Syria, extend into Saudi Arabia and, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq. The weight of this object would cause earthquakes. The height of 1400 miles would extend beyond the atmosphere and would drastically change global weather. Of course the three corners would extend out another 400 miles in each direction and that arrangement would cover Iraq and extend into Iran. If it were a cube then the problem would be just that much worse.
Does not the bible describe the temple during the millennium and the division of land around the temple…I need to go back and review Ezekiel and refresh myself on this…anyway how is that going to occur if we have a New Jerusalem setting on top of it? Also the NJ does not possess a temple so there must be a temple located on earth.
If the New Jerusalem orbits the earth, then the height, length and width of the city being equal make sense. The New Jerusalem could very well be spherical. In context of the solar system that God has designed would not this arrangement make more sense as it seems that is the design He has used in the past?
Bob
Sorry for the delay. I actually was answering you yesterday and lost the post. (I really hate when that happens!  )
Anyway, as I said before (and may have to say yet again), I believe it's closer to 1500 miles, but the footprint of the city will be basically a square. The Scriptures say that it "lieth foursquare" (Greek: tetragoonas keitai which literally means it "lies stretched out four-cornered"). This is just talking about the BASE of the structure. It does not say anything in these words about the sides or the top! The city's walls do NOT have to be squares forcing one to wonder if there's a top or not; the city's walls could be isosceles triangles that fold in slightly so they meet at a point at the top! This is the shape of a four-sided pyramid. It merely has to have the same height over the center of the city as is measured along one of its sides.
Yes, you're right about it covering the whole Middle East, but we are talking about AFTER the Millennium (and thus AFTER the Temple) and AFTER the creation of the New Earth with its New Atmosphere; so, that's okay! We are even told that in the City, there will be NO more Temple, "for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."
In fact, it's height of 1500 miles means that the city, even if sitting on the New Earth as I believe it must, will be visible from Norway, Sweden, and Finland to Zambia, and from Morocco to China! Its light will affect lands even farther away!
Rev 21:24-25
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
KJV
Isa 2:2-3
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
KJV
Mic 4:1-2
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go u | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
