RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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misty35 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/4/2008 9:39:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

the only major issue i have today with this speakin in tongues.. when well meaning but WRONG people try to tell a person how to speak in tongues.. they give you all kinds of instructions, i.e. "just say la la la la or whatever and practice till it comes out" and other such nonsense.

In the Book of Acts, the people were assembled and the Holy Spirit FELL ON THE PEOPLE.. they received it.. seems like it was as easy as you standing outside and the rain all of a sudden falls on you,, did you have to work it up or do la la la la to make the rain fall on you?

NO!

so i think people should stop the instructions and let the real Holy Spirit do His ministry as He sees fit.


I agree.....



solarflare -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/4/2008 3:54:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

the only major issue i have today with this speakin in tongues.. when well meaning but WRONG people try to tell a person how to speak in tongues.. they give you all kinds of instructions, i.e. "just say la la la la or whatever and practice till it comes out" and other such nonsense.

In the Book of Acts, the people were assembled and the Holy Spirit FELL ON THE PEOPLE.. they received it.. seems like it was as easy as you standing outside and the rain all of a sudden falls on you,, did you have to work it up or do la la la la to make the rain fall on you?

NO!

so i think people should stop the instructions and let the real Holy Spirit do His ministry as He sees fit.



[sm=thumbsup.gif]



Him4all -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/4/2008 5:49:52 PM)

I guess that I'm in a different place experientially. When I first received my prayer language I did receive coaching before I spoke in tongues. I voluntarily started speaking...but with the help of a dear sister who said: "I'm just going to pray in my prayer tongue and you try to copy it. You won't be able to because your spirit has its own language, but this will help you to get started." And it did help get me started. It was a full flowing unknown tongue which lasted for 10 or 15 minutes. I then voluntarily quit...just like I voluntarily started.

And I guess that I have no problem with doing something that works....even if it's a lalalalala just to get them to wiggle their vocal cords. I am curious though, is there someone here who did receive their prayer language like that?

No where in scripture do we have someone praying a sinners prayer to get "saved". But it's done all the time and what is the basis? Personally I could say 'No one led me in a prayer, I just muddled through a conversation which was 'doctrinally' insufficient...but it too worked IMO. [:D]

DR



Ezra -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 2:31:19 AM)

quote:

It wasn't until I sought God and God alone that I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.


The Bible teaches that every sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). This is the baptism "with the Holy Spirit". He is "poured out" upon us, and we are "immersed" into Him (Ezek.36:25-27).

At the same time, the Holy Spirit places ("immerses") every believer into the Body of Christ. This is the baptism "by" the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13).

In view of this, we do not wait until we "seek God and God alone" in order to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

That is an aspect of sanctification whereby God Himself becomes our focus and our greatest love. And that has nothing to do with tongues and everything to do with offering ourselves to God as a living sacrifice (Rom. 12:1), and loving Him with our entire being.

The problem with Pentecostal theology is that it simply confuses Christians into seeking an experience rather than growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.

You will notice that none of the apostles teach on tongues other than Paul, and when he does, it is to correct the Corinthians in their misunderstanding of tongues. That's why Paul would rather speak five words of intelligible prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues (1 Cor. 14:19). And the word "unknown" should be ignored. Tongues (glossai) means languages (dialektos) in Scripture.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 7:43:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra
[And the word "unknown" should be ignored. Tongues (glossai) means languages (dialektos) in Scripture.


Ezra, I would humbly ask you to reconcile the abouve statement with this verse concerning tongues;

(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Thanks
RC



solarflare -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 10:48:44 AM)

quote:

The problem with Pentecostal theology is that it simply confuses Christians into seeking an experience rather than growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.


I'm not Pentecostal, but this is over-simplification and IMO, not very fair.
Believe me, I'm not a fan of some things I know goes on with others encouraging people to pray in tongues, but I find your remarks somewhat trite and prejudiced. No one group has it all down perfect.

You say, none of the apostles taught on tonges. I guarantee you that they did. It may not be recorded in Scripture.......so does that mean they ignored something Paul taught on?



wacotton -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 12:00:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

It wasn't until I sought God and God alone that I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.


The Bible teaches that every sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). This is the baptism "with the Holy Spirit". He is "poured out" upon us, and we are "immersed" into Him (Ezek.36:25-27).

At the same time, the Holy Spirit places ("immerses") every believer into the Body of Christ. This is the baptism "by" the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13).

In view of this, we do not wait until we "seek God and God alone" in order to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

That is an aspect of sanctification whereby God Himself becomes our focus and our greatest love. And that has nothing to do with tongues and everything to do with offering ourselves to God as a living sacrifice (Rom. 12:1), and loving Him with our entire being.

The problem with Pentecostal theology is that it simply confuses Christians into seeking an experience rather than growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.

You will notice that none of the apostles teach on tongues other than Paul, and when he does, it is to correct the Corinthians in their misunderstanding of tongues. That's why Paul would rather speak five words of intelligible prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues (1 Cor. 14:19). And the word "unknown" should be ignored. Tongues (glossai) means languages (dialektos) in Scripture.


quote:

quote:

It wasn't until I sought God and God alone that I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

In view of this, we do not wait until we "seek God and God alone" in order to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


This statement I made was in reference to seeking the baptism with the Holy Spirit specifically.
Also if we don't seek God and God alone then who are we supposed to seek?
Men who tell us that if we seek God and God alone we are not loving God enough?
Men who told me that I already had the Holy Spirit and that I was just wasting my time?
Men who told me that tongue talkers were all deceived?
Men who tried to tried to tell me that I lacked knowledge?
Men who after I was baptized with the Holy Spirit tried to tell me that God allowed me to receive something fake, contrary to what Jesus said in Luke 11:5-13?
When I sought out men for answers about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, at best I got misinformation.
When I sought God alone for the Truth I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and I prayed in tongues.



wacotton -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 12:05:57 PM)

quote:

The Bible teaches that every sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). This is the baptism "with the Holy Spirit". He is "poured out" upon us, and we are "immersed" into Him (Ezek.36:25-27).


The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the first day of the resurrection in John 20:22 when Jesus breathed on them and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost". This is the new birth.
Then these same disciples were baptized with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.
They were two different events.



Ezra -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 8:46:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra
[And the word "unknown" should be ignored. Tongues (glossai) means languages (dialektos) in Scripture.


Ezra, I would humbly ask you to reconcile the abouve statement with this verse concerning tongues;

(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Thanks
RC


RC:

The first thing to do with this verse is to look at it in the Greek (Textus Receptus). The literal Greek states" For he that speaks with a tongue [language] , not to man speaks, but to God: for no one hears; but in spirit he speaks mysteries". The word "unknown" is not there, but was supplied by the translators to indicates that Paul is speaking about a language spoken supernaturally (not previously known to the speaker).

We know from Scripture that when we speak to God, it is called "prayer".
Therefore Paul says in verse 14:14 "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful". This corresponds to "speaketh...unto God". IOW, the gift of tongues becomes something that benefits no one (not even the speaker) unless interpreted, but is understood by God alone. Thus it may rightly be called "prayer".

What both these verse are saying is that:

1. The supernatural speaking of a language that is not known to the speaker is by the power of the Holy Spirit, thus "in the spirit".

2. Tongues without interpretation are meaningless to others, and only God understands what is being said. Thus what is said remains a "mystery" to the hearers (unless interpreted).

3. Even the mind of the one speaking in tongues is not not involved, thus "unfruitful".

When one takes these verse in context (chapters 12-14) it becomes clear that Paul is certainly not encouraging the Corinthians to supposedly "pray in the spirit". To the contrary, he is discouraging them from doing so, since "he that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church" (v.4). Paul is also stressing the importance of engaging the mind during worship (1 Cor. 14:15) and the importance of having everyone else understand and say "Amen" to that which is being spoken (1 Cor. 14:16).

Since all spiritual gifts are given for the edification of others (1 Cor. 12:7), no Christian should imagine that speaking in tongues without an interpreter is encouraged in Scripture.

And these verses cannot be taken out of context to teach that there is such a thing as "prayer language". The fact that not all would speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:30) means that if God gave some an "unfair advantage" with a prayer language, He would become a respecter of persons.

The real "prayer language" of Scripture is found in the Psalms and is available to all the children of God. These are the prayers given by the Holy Spirit, so that we may truly pray and praise "in the Spirit".



Ezra -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 9:00:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

The problem with Pentecostal theology is that it simply confuses Christians into seeking an experience rather than growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.


I'm not Pentecostal, but this is over-simplification and IMO, not very fair.
Believe me, I'm not a fan of some things I know goes on with others encouraging people to pray in tongues, but I find your remarks somewhat trite and prejudiced. No one group has it all down perfect.


You have made certain assertions here, but have not proved them. On what grounds are my observations "trite", "prejudiced" and "over-simplified"? This is not about which group of Christians has "it all down perfect" but about the folly of seeking experiences instead of growth in grace.

quote:

You say, none of the apostles taught on tonges. I guarantee you that they did. It may not be recorded in Scripture.......so does that mean they ignored something Paul taught on?


What is not recorded in Scripture cannot be assumed as a certainty. The apostles did not "ignore" what Paul was teaching. They simply did not bring tongues to the forefront (as do the Pentecostals), since "tongues are a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" (1 Cor. 14:22). The apostles focused on the gifts that edified the churches, as you will note in 1 Peter 4:10,11.

What we seem to forget is that Scripture makes it quite clear that the miraculous speaking in tongues were "signs" to show unbelievers (particularly unbelieving Jews) that the power of God was accompanying the Gospel. This was for a transitional period, hence "whether there be tongues, THEY SHALL CEASE" (1 Cor. 13:8).



Ezra -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/7/2008 9:31:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wacotton

quote:

The Bible teaches that every sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). This is the baptism "with the Holy Spirit". He is "poured out" upon us, and we are "immersed" into Him (Ezek.36:25-27).


The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the first day of the resurrection in John 20:22 when Jesus breathed on them and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost". This is the new birth.
Then these same disciples were baptized with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.
They were two different events.


Bill:

Agreed. The apostles received gift of the Holy Spirit prior to the Day of Pentecost. But the Lord had told the apostles in Acts 1:8 that they would receive "power" (dunamis) after the Holy Ghost "is come upon you" and "ye shall be witnesses unto me".

We find further on that this empowerment of the apostles corresponded to their being "FILLED with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:4). This filling of the Holy Spirit resulted in two things: (a) the apostles spoke foreign languages supernaturally on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4) and Peter was empowered and emboldened to preach the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:14-40). Further on we find that "they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and THEY SPAKE THE WORD OF GOD WITH BOLDNESS" (Acts 4:31).

So what Scripture teaches is (a) we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the same as "the baptism WITH the Holy Ghost", (b) we receive the new birth by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and (c) we receive power to witness and speak the Word of God boldly when we are filled with the Holy Spirit.

The "fulness" of the Holy Spirit is not the same as "the baptism with the Holy Spirit". Indeed, every Christian who is already baptized with and by the Holy Spirit, already has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and already has the New Birth, is commanded to "BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT" (Eph. 5:18).

This means that Christians are not always living in the fulness of the Holy Spirit, and must "walk in the Spirit" and produce "the fruit of the Spirit" in order to be "filled with the Spirit". Since Christ always had the fulness of the Holy Spirit, the more we think as Christ thinks and love as Christ loves, the more are we filled with the Spirit, and our witness is bold.

By confusing the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the fulness of the Holy Spirit, we simply misunderstand the Scriptures. Furthermore, Pentecostals have taught that the evidence of the "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is "speaking in tongues". This is not so. We do not read of the 3,000 who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit (the gift of the Holy Spirit) speaking in tongues (Acts 2:41). Instead we read that they were baptized in water the same day.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/8/2008 8:32:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra
RC:

The first thing to do with this verse is to look at it in the Greek (Textus Receptus). The literal Greek states" For he that speaks with a tongue [language] , not to man speaks, but to God: for no one hears; but in spirit he speaks mysteries". The word "unknown" is not there, but was supplied by the translators to indicates that Paul is speaking about a language spoken supernaturally (not previously known to the speaker).

We know from Scripture that when we speak to God, it is called "prayer".
Therefore Paul says in verse 14:14 "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful". This corresponds to "speaketh...unto God". IOW, the gift of tongues becomes something that benefits no one (not even the speaker) unless interpreted, but is understood by God alone. Thus it may rightly be called "prayer".


That is my point; that when the Spirit prays for us; no one understands, and there is no interpretation. Many have been claiming that prayer by the Spirit (Supernaturally) should be interpreted or that there is no such thing as "Supernatural prayer (Praying in tongues)", and I feel that vs. 2 is directly speaking to Supernatural prayer.

I would disagee that Supernatural Prayer (praying in tongues) benefits no one. Allowing the Spirit to pray to God for us when we do not know what to pray;

(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And prayijng Supernaturally (Praying in tongues) also builds our faith;

(Jud 1:20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Thanks
RC



wacotton -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (11/10/2008 12:56:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

ORIGINAL: wacotton

quote:

The Bible teaches that every sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ receives the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). This is the baptism "with the Holy Spirit". He is "poured out" upon us, and we are "immersed" into Him (Ezek.36:25-27).


The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the first day of the resurrection in John 20:22 when Jesus breathed on them and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost". This is the new birth.
Then these same disciples were baptized with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.
They were two different events.


Bill:

Agreed. The apostles received gift of the Holy Spirit prior to the Day of Pentecost. But the Lord had told the apostles in Acts 1:8 that they would receive "power" (dunamis) after the Holy Ghost "is come upon you" and "ye shall be witnesses unto me".

We find further on that this empowerment of the apostles corresponded to their being "FILLED with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:4). This filling of the Holy Spirit resulted in two things: (a) the apostles spoke foreign languages supernaturally on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4) and Peter was empowered and emboldened to preach the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:14-40). Further on we find that "they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and THEY SPAKE THE WORD OF GOD WITH BOLDNESS" (Acts 4:31).

So what Scripture teaches is (a) we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the same as "the baptism WITH the Holy Ghost", (b) we receive the new birth by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and (c) we receive power to witness and speak the Word of God boldly when we are filled with the Holy Spirit.

The "fulness" of the Holy Spirit is not the same as "the baptism with the Holy Spirit". Indeed, every Christian who is already baptized with and by the Holy Spirit, already has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and already has the New Birth, is commanded to "BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT" (Eph. 5:18).

This means that Christians are not always living in the fulness of the Holy Spirit, and must "walk in the Spirit" and produce "the fruit of the Spirit" in order to be "filled with the Spirit". Since Christ always had the fulness of the Holy Spirit, the more we think as Christ thinks and love as Christ loves, the more are we filled with the Spirit, and our witness is bold.

By confusing the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the fulness of the Holy Spirit, we simply misunderstand the Scriptures. Furthermore, Pentecostals have taught that the evidence of the "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is "speaking in tongues". This is not so. We do not read of the 3,000 who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit (the gift of the Holy Spirit) speaking in tongues (Acts 2:41). Instead we read that they were baptized in water the same day.


Jesus specifically names what occurs on Pentecost as the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



Cloak -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/2/2008 9:28:17 AM)

I go to church where people speak with tongues. To be honest I find it off putting and even unnecessary and makes one look affected, artificial and false.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/2/2008 9:37:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloak

I go to church where people speak with tongues. To be honest I find it off putting and even unnecessary and makes one look affected, artificial and false.


I am sure glad that God and the Scriptures do not agree with you.

Scripture gives many benefits of tongues with edification for the indivual and the Church as part of it.

Building up one's fath is another;

(Jud 1:19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

(Jud 1:20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

The gifts of tongues are just a minor part of what God has for us, and I am grateful for all that God has for us.

Cloak, I have no idea if the folks that speak with tongues in your Church are within Scripture guidelines or not. That would be for you to decide.

The last 2 verses of 1 Cor 14 give instructions that must be followed;

(1Co 14:39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

(1Co 14:40) Let all things be done decently and in order.




Thanks
RC



Him4all -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/3/2008 12:25:24 PM)

Cloak,

quote:

I find it off putting and even unnecessary and makes one look affected, artificial and false.


Actually, that is not uncommon finding for those who are not aquainted with 'the truth' concerning many things in churches today. I know people who aren't comfortable because the pastor or choir doesn't have a robe on...or because there isn't an organ and 400 year old songs, but instead it's a 'rock and roll' band ect. ect. And yet none of those things is necessarily right or wrong...no matter how one 'feels'. If you 'get a prayer tongue' I suspect, your feeling, will change.

RC,

quote:

Cloak, I have no idea if the folks that speak with tongues in your Church are within Scripture guidelines or not. That would be for you to decide.
Persoanlly, I see a danger in Cloak 'deciding' that for the reason I mentioned above. [;)]

DR



RJR_fan -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/6/2008 1:29:15 AM)

I'm glad to pray in tongues regularly and frequently. OTOH, I am distressed to see this gift frequently abused. Every time someone babbles in tongues over a microphone, but then offers no interpretation, I cringe.

What do I hear? What would any unbeliever hear? Almost always, they would hear a handful of English phonemes reassembled to eliminate meaning. Every language has its own collection of discrete speech sounds -- and every language has a different collection. English is fairly rich, with around 43 possible meaningful sounds. However, when you only hear perhaps half of those per tongues-talker, idiosyncratically mashed together into gibberish, you have to wonder how those utterances glorify God or edify His people.

Hey, I pray in tongues quite frequently, but quietly, for God to hear.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/6/2008 10:10:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all
Persoanlly, I see a danger in Cloak 'deciding' that for the reason I mentioned above. [;)]


I certainly see your point about the danger of deciding (judgingI), but lets not overlook this;

(1Co 14:29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

There is judgment goiong on there somewhere.

I have seen many times where folks had the same attitude as Cloak; that is until they started praying in tongues themselves[8D]

Thanks
RC



Him4all -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/6/2008 8:55:31 PM)

RJR_fan,

quote:

English is fairly rich, with around 43 possible meaningful sounds. However, when you only hear perhaps half of those per tongues-talker,
I'm glad you have a prayer language but I have a different opinion than you concerning the above quote. The 'spiritual' language is in no way confined to 'meaningful' sounds in my opinion. I don't think you can put earthly language laws on the tongue of one's spirit. I've heard people sound like a typewriter stuck on two keys, and I've heard those here who are 'without' the gift ridicule based upon an opinion similar to yours. I've told them they don't know much about languge IMO. The language of the computer is a pretty sophisticated language and yet it is based upon two words...yes and no...It's a binary language that communicates quite well I'd say. And if someones's spiritual tongue is binary, then I'm sure God understands and is glorified quite well.

quote:

Hey, I pray in tongues quite frequently, but quietly, for God to hear.
That's great...but I believe you are walking as one who only knows the truth 'in part'. If it 'offends' you, or anyone else here to have someone speak in a language they can't understand, then I suggest you not do jail minstry like I did for two years. They spoke English fine, but then they'd pray in Spanish. What would you do in a similar situation?

rcjames,

quote:

(1Co 14:29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


I always took that verse to mean judge the spirit of the prophetic message that they are giving. If three 'prophets' speak and two agree and one doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean the two are right and the one is wrong. I believe we are to judge the words spoken by them all and see what the Spirit bears witness to.

quote:

I have seen many times where folks had the same attitude as Cloak; that is until they started praying in tongues themselves


So have I brother...so have I. [:D]

DR



RJR_fan -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/7/2008 2:12:56 AM)

quote:

The 'spiritual' language is in no way confined to 'meaningful' sounds in my opinion. I don't think you can put earthly language laws on the tongue of one's spirit.


But if it was a truly foreign language, would it not use truly foreign phonemes? Not just the re-mixed phonemes of one's native language?



Him4all -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/7/2008 7:17:55 PM)

RJR_fan,

quote:

But if it was a truly foreign language, would it not use truly foreign phonemes? Not just the re-mixed phonemes of one's native language?


That's an interesting question and I honestly don't know. But, like I said in my last post, I don't think you can put earthly language laws on the language of one's spirit. How can we know the answer? I don't know of a scripture that addresses it, do you?

DR



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/8/2008 8:09:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Him4all

RJR_fan,

quote:

But if it was a truly foreign language, would it not use truly foreign phonemes? Not just the re-mixed phonemes of one's native language?


That's an interesting question and I honestly don't know. But, like I said in my last post, I don't think you can put earthly language laws on the language of one's spirit. How can we know the answer? I don't know of a scripture that addresses it, do you?


(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

No one knows/understands a prayer language.

(1Co 13:1) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

This seemingly referrences a language that would not necessarily use known phoenemes of a human language.

Thanks
RC



RJR_fan -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/9/2008 1:39:50 PM)

quote:

No one knows/understands a prayer language.


Yet, a guy I know pretty well was overheard worshiping God in Spanish, a language he'd never studied. Was the miracle in the speaking, or in the hearing?



laura... -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/9/2008 2:03:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:

No one knows/understands a prayer language.


Yet, a guy I know pretty well was overheard worshiping God in Spanish, a language he'd never studied. Was the miracle in the speaking, or in the hearing?


I would modify rcjames' quote to say, "It is not necessary for anyone to understand a prayer language other than God." That does not mean that it is impossible for God to cause someone to pray in a language unknown to the prayer but known to a hearer.

In Acts 2 they were given tongues in languages that were known by those who heard but not by those who were speaking. Yet, as Rcjames quoted earlier, tongues can also be "the tongues of angels" that no one knows. Why limit God? It can be both a miracle in the speaking and in the hearing.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (12/9/2008 2:57:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:

No one knows/understands a prayer language.


Yet, a guy I know pretty well was overheard worshiping God in Spanish, a language he'd never studied. Was the miracle in the speaking, or in the hearing?


I had an incident a few years ago where I went into a Church in the Yucatan, Mexico. I was praying in tongues and the folks there began rejoincing because I was praying blessing on them and their family members who were on a hunt in the jungle, and was praying in a Mayan dislect that the locals spoke. At that time I did not knowlingly speak any of the Mayna dilects, I only spoke English and Spanish.

God used that to bring joy to the folks and seemingly to establish me as a minister of God's Word. Over the nest few years I did learn six different dialects that are used in the area.

Thanks
RC



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