quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Not sure of the date of the article, but the Houston Chronicle had an article on Osteen. They asked him why there were no crosses in the church. He said they were a barrier. Think on that one a minute...

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Not sure of the date of the article, but the Houston Chronicle had an article on Osteen. They asked him why there were no crosses in the church. He said they were a barrier. Think on that one a minute...

Iss44,

I see where you are going with this. And, yes, I understand. However, that is the line of thinking within the seeker movement. The basic difference between a seeker church drawing people, and a traditional church drawing people is this: A traditonal church says, "We have Jesus. So, come because you need Him." A seeker church would say (inc, I think Joel O) "See your need? Well, come, we have what meets that need, and He is Jesus."

There are so many people that are turned off of religion, God, Jesus, the whole thing, because they have had fingers pointed at them for so long. The reason for the lack of the cross, isn't because it is not important. But, for many, it has become a symbol of judgmental and prideful people. It is sad, but true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KathrynM

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Not sure of the date of the article, but the Houston Chronicle had an article on Osteen. They asked him why there were no crosses in the church. He said they were a barrier. Think on that one a minute...

Iss44,

I see where you are going with this. And, yes, I understand. However, that is the line of thinking within the seeker movement. The basic difference between a seeker church drawing people, and a traditional church drawing people is this: A traditonal church says, "We have Jesus. So, come because you need Him." A seeker church would say (inc, I think Joel O) "See your need? Well, come, we have what meets that need, and He is Jesus."

There are so many people that are turned off of religion, God, Jesus, the whole thing, because they have had fingers pointed at them for so long. The reason for the lack of the cross, isn't because it is not important. But, for many, it has become a symbol of judgmental and prideful people. It is sad, but true.

That's interesting. I once had a guy point to the cross on my neck and say "That's all you Christians believe in. That body on the cross!" I tried to explain that we worship a God who is spirit, and we worship Jesus for himself, but he didn't seem to listen to me.

quote:

That's interesting. I once had a guy point to the cross on my neck and say "That's all you Christians believe in. That body on the cross!" I tried to explain that we worship a God who is spirit, and we worship Jesus for himself, but he didn't seem to listen to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

If a Christian cannot associate with the cross, I wonder about their association with Christ. I do not say that in a judgemental fashion, but with love for what my Savior did on the cross for me.

quote:


When folks say that they have been hurt by religion, I would say that they have been hurt by people. It is not God who has hurt them. Perhaps if the seekers and the seeker senstive could turn their eyes off themselves and on to God, they would get over themselves and truly let it all be about God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Why does the truth of the Word, the power of the Cross and the blood of Christ need to be repackaged by business men who are marketing the church, maybe better called hirelings than pastors, to those who don't like church?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

I said re-packaged...not pre-packaged. Jesus drew the people to Himself because of who He was. He will draw people to Himself today just as simply as He did in the accounts of the Bible.
Yes, He did meet people in the "middle of their stuff" and then bid them to move on out of their stuff.

Jesus is enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Later on, though, they tried to align themselves with men. Paul rebuked them for this. We are not to follow man, but I see these men put out there and talked about more than Jesus. Too many times I have seen interviews and they do not mention or give glory to God for what HE is doing. Shaky foundation for a church to grow on...a man or family's reputation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

What concerns me about Joel Osteen is not his watered down fell good Christianity. If that's all it was, I would just chalk him up as another motivational speaker (Dr Phil, Tony Robbins, etc).

No, it's his blatantly unbiblical WoF/Name it Claim it theology (been posted numerous times throughout this thread and his thread in the Books section) that concerns me.

Matthew 24:24: For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect

quote:

ORIGINAL: lss44

Why does the truth of the Word, the power of the Cross and the blood of Christ need to be repackaged by business men who are marketing the church, maybe better called hirelings than pastors, to those who don't like church?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KathrynM

I've been reading this forum because a number of people I know just love him. One of them is a girl at work who's become a christian since we first met just a few months ago. One of the first things she said to me was "I'm not a christian, but I think I should be". She said this because of the things Joel Osteen said on his show when she watched it.

My uncle has always been one of the most athiestic people I know, but has expressed an interest in Christianity because of Joel Osteen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: KathrynM

I've been reading this forum because a number of people I know just love him. One of them is a girl at work who's become a christian since we first met just a few months ago. One of the first things she said to me was "I'm not a christian, but I think I should be". She said this because of the things Joel Osteen said on his show when she watched it.

My uncle has always been one of the most athiestic people I know, but has expressed an interest in Christianity because of Joel Osteen.

What does "expressed interest in Christianity" mean? It's not like you're or car shopping or job hunting! One doesn't express interest in Christinaity, one needs to realize they are a sinner (a word Mr Osteen hardly every uses), repent of their sins and ask Jesus to be their Lord and Savior. When that happens, they need to continue a growing relationship and follow Christ!

"Becoming a Chrsitian" or "expressing interest in Christianity" are a far cry from dying to one's sinful nature and picking up their cross to follow Jesus!

Your examples perfectly highlight the problem with Joel Osteen's watered down theology. "Christian" means follower of Christ, not someone who likes to have their ears tickled and self-esteem boosted by Joel Osteen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: KathrynM

I've been reading this forum because a number of people I know just love him. One of them is a girl at work who's become a christian since we first met just a few months ago. One of the first things she said to me was "I'm not a christian, but I think I should be". She said this because of the things Joel Osteen said on his show when she watched it.

My uncle has always been one of the most athiestic people I know, but has expressed an interest in Christianity because of Joel Osteen.

What does "expressed interest in Christianity" mean? It's not like you're or car shopping or job hunting! One doesn't express interest in Christinaity, one needs to realize they are a sinner (a word Mr Osteen hardly every uses), repent of their sins and ask Jesus to be their Lord and Savior. When that happens, they need to continue a growing relationship and follow Christ!

"Becoming a Chrsitian" or "expressing interest in Christianity" are a far cry from dying to one's sinful nature and picking up their cross to follow Jesus!

Your examples perfectly highlight the problem with Joel Osteen's watered down theology. "Christian" means follower of Christ, not someone who likes to have their ears tickled and self-esteem boosted by Joel Osteen.

What Kathyrn is talking about is pre-disciple. The people came to see Jesus, for many reasons. They were curious, they wanted healing, they'd heard rumors. They didn't say, "oh, I heard God was in town, let's go see him." The Spirit moves in each one in a different way. Joel is used, as I am used, as you are used. None of us (hopefully) would say that it was because of us. It is about Christ. I don't think that Joel would disagree with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

Well, I've heard Joel Osteen preach four sermons. I didn't read them; I watched him preach them. (Yes, I also read quite a few on his website).

The guy is good. I've heard so many people preach in my lifetime that it's not even funy, and I've heard many, many teachers as well. This guy is not a teacher as I said earlier. He's not someone who is going to exegetically cover a passage, but he is a preacher. I understand now why he's having an effect. He is speaking the truth. No, he's not a Paul. He's more like a Peter.

It's interesting that God used both. It's interesting that God used Paul, the Pharisee's Pharisees, with the Gentiles who knew little of God's law, and He used Peter, far from a scholar and a simple fisherman, to deal with the Jews. Well, I am hearing from many people I respect that Joel Osteen is getting through to those in the Church. People of the Lord are turning their lives around by listening to Osteen. His message is simple, but everything I've heard him say so far is correct. I didn't like a couple of things I read, but now I'm wondering how it came across as spoken.

Delivery is as much a part of what someone says as the verbiage. Someone can argue with that, but as someone who has read TONS of other people's sermons and listened to TONS of sermons, I know it can make a huge difference. I should have listened to those sermons instead of reading them, but my sound is messed up on my computer.