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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 11:21:53 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11743
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 12:51:05 PM
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BibleBased
Posts: 67
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Of course a lot of people think we mustn't judge and correct fellow believers, which again just shows they don't read or know the Word of God. Of course if someone gets divorced, we must judge the action by God's bible and treat them accordingly. Can anyone tell me where it says, in the New Testament, that we MUST judge eachother as believers and HOW we should treat people who deliberately break God's Word/ the bible?
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non arguement - the ACTUAL arguement is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom? BibleBased.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 1:53:05 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 870
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non arguement - the ACTUAL arguement is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 3:05:50 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non arguement - the ACTUAL arguement is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
I dont think any Christian tells their kids Dad is beyond Gods hope. No one walking with the Lord will do that. I know of little children who have questioned Mommy about "why daddy hates granny, why doesnt daddy go to church"? I would love to see you look in those innocent little eyes and give that one a cool answer.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 6:23:04 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1598
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
Amen..........And this is true and has always been true..........for those who have literally suffered and died for Christ's sake as well as for those who have "died for Christ's sake" regarding desires, dreams, broken promises...........etc.........all to bring Him Glory and Honor while on this earth.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 12:01:04 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non argument - the ACTUAL argument is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified?
_____________________________
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 12:09:40 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 285
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non argument - the ACTUAL argument is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified?
And advice like that is why I can't wrap my head around Christianity....
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
Ranting and raving: diaryofaravingmom.blogspot.com
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 1:51:00 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Bottom line, not everyone is going to agree on this. Those who are the most against ANY divorce are the ones who do the least to help those who must get divorced...the abused, neglected, abandoned women and kids who suffer in misery and poverty and loveless, often violently abusive marriages. And emotional abuse can be quite severe. Lest we forget, many MEN are victims of an abusive spouse and are raising children. It goes both ways these days, sadly. God is love and there for those who want to love the divorced......and those in His church following His heart will show it to them. Blessings!
Tater,
You are very ignorant in what you speak of. I am a member of a Christian group FILLED with divorced persons, so you know not what you speak of----at all. You are uplifting and ADVOCATING the "goodness" and rightness of divorce, so yes, we are on opposing sides of this issue---because I see nothing "good" or right in the permanent forsaking of the union God joined together.
I defend the permanency of marriage because that is what I see throughout scripture. I also stand with my divorced brothers and sisters in unity against the plague of divorce and the brokenness which occurs in families when those who suffer give up. God has called each who profess to know HIM, to love as HE LOVES (not only the "good"/"wronged" person in a marriage), not to abandon permanently the "unloveable"...........Thank goodness He did not do that to us when WE were entrenched in sin and very unloveable.
Do we all want JUSTICE? Absolutely. It is something innate in most of us. Many of us "fight" for the underdog and do what we can to help them in their hurt. However, while we live and breathe on this earth, it is the LORD'S desire that we pray for those who treat us badly and hope that they too come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and that they turn from their sins and be healed. I am not feeling that from you towards offenders, but only bitterness and anger. That is not of God..............this I know.
Tater,
I agree here. You just do not what you are saying. I know many who know that divorce is a wrong solution to a difficult problem for a believer. They are what I might say above the bar in helping those dealing with sinning spouses to follow the Lord and have their needs met. You really do not know about these, it appears
I think you certainly may have met some who are harsh towards others and railed against women while being unwilling to see the log in their own eye. Maybe that is what you are speaking of. But when it comes to those modern day believers who have had their eyes opened about the crisis of divorce mentality ripping apart the unity of believing families, or those seeking to walk with the Lord with an unbelieving spouse (not easy), I think they are most active in supporting those who suffer. They pray for them, exhort them with truth from God's word (as we are called to do) support them financially at times, offer them bed and board, make themselves available day and night and in general believe they should maintain integrity in their actions and beliefs. But perhaps you have not met nor spent time with such as these. I have, and I am blessed because of it.
You hit it on the head, lastblast, it is ignorance. Before the different trials I have found myself in commenced, I had never met a christian who really believed that God meant the strong things He said about keeping vows. In fact, the general christian thinking was that obedience was something God didn't really care much about. How wrong I have found out that thinking was. Obedience to God, and all He commands, is critical to our formation as His people.
There are people who DO misuse the word of God to misuse another person, and they will be held accountable to a Holy God for this. God will not overlook this.
At the same time, God does not promote divorce-as-a-solution, because it goes against His message of reconciliation to man and from person to person, especially the kind of vow and bond that is meant to be a lifetime covenant. He does allow trouble, but He does not teach divorce as a way to fix the problem. He doesn't teach us to take a position that can only be interpreted as a further tearing of our commitments and families.
Divorce does not "fix" abuse either. In fact God said divorce came from the hardened hearts of people. It is a naive assumption to use divorce-as-a-solution. If anything, it promotes a falseness to the one abusing that they are free to keep abusing others and have no longer any obligations to their original family and partner.
That man/woman trapped in controlling and violent behavior needs major prayer. They are usually trying to run from God anyway, so they should be viewed as a prodigal to Him. He loves the prodigal(sometimes hard for us to imagine, but then, that would show up our own pride) and is relentless in His motive to humble them, break them and return them to fellowship with HIm (most important) and restore things lost, such as family, legacy, calling and destiny.
Women and men 'writing off' those who have resorted to sinful behavior such as control and cruelty are missing the Gospel. Those ones who are obviously deceived as to the realities of life need major prayer.
Divorce promotion/defense as such can bring quite a bit of consequences spiritually to an individual and a family. There are times when it truly is unavoidable, but seeking it is aligning with a destructive way of thinking that has truly devastated individuals, families and ultimately our culture's underpinnings.
I spoke with a European in a country where divorce is rare. He said, "you know what they say about America? Married one minute, divorced five minutes later" We really have led the way in this world (america). Now may the church begin to seek answers to these marriages in strife and sin that is more compatible with a Gospel-aligned attitude/changed heart.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 2:02:43 PM
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cadz
Posts: 144
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non argument - the ACTUAL argument is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified?
What About Abusive Marriages?
_____________________________
Cheryl
Why I repented of an adulterous remarriage &
cadz FAQ about Divorce & Remarriage
http://www.cadz.net/mdr.html
Visit my audio website http://www.cadz.net to listen to broadcasts on Marriage & Divorce
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 2:03:37 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
God has said to do so and you disobey Him if you do not, which you have admitted. Bless you
I said nothing of the sort, Tater, but you can make this personal if you wish.
One can either choose to obey God even in the "hard" things, or they can complain about situations GOD has allowed into their lives. They then can choose to walk disobediently, aligning themselves with others who will justify sin. A person can say that God thinks it ok to separate what He has joined together permanently, even if the spouse comes to repentance someday----but they will have a very hard time proving that mindset from the Word of God.
Amen, lastblast.
The real trial is over and above the marriage. It is the trial that a believer can get so offended by, that they reject God's sovereignty, holiness, ability to keep them etc. etc. This really is the crux of it....when we come into the great soul ripping trial of a spouse who , say, is not showing love, at best, and breathing threats and doing terrible mean things at worst. I know many stories, each one topping the other. They are quite like the trials of believers in "closed" countries at times.
So in the midst of the trial of a spouse's disobedience to God (the greater concern, in the big picture), do we justify ourselves to cut and run and to do whatever we think right in our own eyes? Or do we cry out to God for Him to reveal Himself through the revelation of His Word, what our orders are in the midst of the battle? There is so much to be said about how to walk in a trial such as abusive marriage, for instance, or a spouse who is being treacherous in other ways. so much.
A trial that God has allowed in our lives.
This truth is uncomfortable, but it does align with the stuff Jesus said would be happening in the difficult days of trial before He comes back.
We need to restore the biblical and godly understanding that difficulty does not somehow remove us from our commitments and vows. We need to find grace and truth that helps us to find purpose in our trials and we need to unashamedly exhort each other to follow His word and trust Him in the midst of the storms of life. The stakes are about not letting our trial offend us so we somehow justify a sinful course and (God forbid) blame it on another's actions, or on God Himself.
Because we know our enemy is constantly accusing us to God and accusing God to us. There is great safety and peace in aligning with God's purposes in a fiery trial.
Bless you all.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 2:04:53 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cadz
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Like i say on all divorce topics, it is a non argument - the ACTUAL argument is Do we believe the bible and by extension God's Wisdom?
You got it! That is what it boils down to... we've been brainwashed by the modern church that God has a "perfect" will and a "permissive" will. Just another made up doctrine. God does not have a "plan B" He has one plan for marriage and it is clearly spelled out in His Word.
As Christians we are called to be ministers of reconciliation. We are called to remain faithful to our covenant with God and our spouse whether they do or not. The purpose of our lives is to be a witness for Christ- reflecting His unconditional love and forgiveness. The way we handle trials in our lives is the lens through which others see God. We can show them a God who we trust who is worthy of worship or we can show them how small God is...
How do we explain the Gospel to our children and at the same time tell them there wasn't enough blood to cover their dad's sins? That Jesus doesn't love their dad as much as he loves them and he wants their dad to be reconciled to Him? That should be the prayer of a family who is dealing with a wayward spouse. But that is a far cry from the unbiblical move on mentality in the "church" today.
In the end it really won't matter how "happy" we were. How perfect our lives were... or if we found the perfect spouse. We are not promised tomorrow and this life is a blink... What will matter in the end is that we stood for something and that we lived a life that honors and glorifies God.
Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified?
What About Abusive Marriages?
Awesome link cadz! Thank you!
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 2:12:41 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
we are not second class citizens...we are daughters of the King! sins forgiven!!! Praise Him. Ignore the judgement (and twisting of scripture) by those who dont know the suffering. I suggest to them they visit the local battered womens shelter and see first hand what can happen. Really LOOK into the eyes of a battered woman and her traumatized children. See with the eyes of Jesus.
I know MANY who are divorced and they are far from second class citizens. Yet, these same divorcees believe in the permanency of marriage. They most certainly are not speaking the same message of the destruction of God-joined marriages that many are today. These same divorcees believe the scriptures teach that divorce between those couples GOD joined together is NOT good---no matter the situation. Paul DID give an "out"(hopefully temporary)----"if a woman departs she is to remain unmarried OR be reconciled to her husband". If a woman IS being abused, the Lord DOES understand, but He does NOT want or give permission for what HE joined together to be put away----permanently. That is the flesh, not God. God desires the hardhearted (the offender as well as the offended---whatever the case may be) to repent/and or forgive.............and then for restoration of the family HE joined together to occur. Blessings.......
so whats your church doing to help them? please be specific. feeding the kids? providing her with a place to live and medical care? taking care of her kids when she has to work and they all have the flu? and are you providing security if she has an abusive spouse? do be specific in how you help her.
Tater,
Do you believe God could help someone who has been stripped of everything? Such as someone who loses their house to foreclosure, loses their family in a plane crash, or loses their insurance and has a life threatening illness?
Just about any need is able to be met by God. He even meets to needs of those who don't yet follow Him.
a woman abandoned may have to dial down her lifestyle a bit, because most americans need remedial education about what are needs and what are just wants, and what may be thought of as an "entitlement" but for the most part, a woman who is abandoned emotionally, financially, materially, is not beyond God's ability to help! EVEN if she doesn't know too many who want to help her (fellow believers who should be), she can FULLY trust GOD.
It is her opportunity to grow in depth in her relationship with the LORD of LORDS. He is more than able. Loss does not mean abandonment by God. That is the enemy's taunt, though.
The enemy of our souls is the enemy, not those advocating keeping one's vows to the Lord.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 4:53:27 PM
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blessednw
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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RE: running, I am speaking of the person who is "trapped in violent, controlling behavior" such as a person who relies on control to deal with their family members.....an abusive person if you will. The hardness of a man/woman's heart who is using control and harshness (sin) to get their way is not pleasing to God.
The trap is the devil's trap in their life to keep them blinded to what they ought to be doing.....serving the Lord and with kindness, caring for their family and spouse.
I do not think those who are afraid, due to the onslaught of cruelty directed towards them are prodigals by being hurt. That is not what I am saying.
When the one who is hurt and offended begins to see the depravity in their mate's sinful behavior, and begins to see how darkened their spouse has become, perhaps they can begin to see how seriously their spouse needs their prayers, and how important it is to avoid sin in their own lives, so that their prayers can be unhindered.
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 5/19/2008 3:04:56 PM >
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:00:19 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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Tater,
Do you believe God could help someone who has been stripped of everything? Such as someone who loses their house to foreclosure, loses their family in a plane crash, or loses their insurance and has a life threatening illness?
i SURE DO! for He has done it for me, praise Him. I had NOTHING. and i now have everything i need. and i cant say more than that lest i violate the forum rules. I will say this. Know who helped me the most? Who God sent my way? the divorced AND remarried Christians who had walked in my shoes and did not judge or preach or reject me, they just loved me. some of those people you consider awful sinners, the remarried Christians, do the MOST to help abused women, for they dont judge...for they have been there. .
Just about any need is able to be met by God. He even meets to needs of those who don't yet follow Him.
Absolutely i agree
a woman abandoned may have to dial down her lifestyle a bit, because most americans need remedial education about what are needs and what are just wants,
you have wandered off the topic and landed into American bashing land. dont bother me with your posts if you do this. i will put you on ignore if i see on more reference to Americans like that. divorced Americans are no different than divorced Europeans or any other.
and what may be thought of as an "entitlement" but for the most part, a woman who is abandoned emotionally, financially, materially, is not beyond God's ability to help! EVEN if she doesn't know too many who want to help her (fellow believers who should be), she can FULLY trust GOD.
It is her opportunity to grow in depth in her relationship with the LORD of LORDS. He is more than able. Loss does not mean abandonment by God. That is the enemy's taunt, though.
The enemy of our souls is the enemy, not those advocating keeping one's vows to the Lord.
[/quote]
You have no idea what the Lord has done for me and since we can share personal stories I cant tell you. To Him be the glory forever and ever, AMEN. All my needs have been met
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:00:33 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 285
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
we are not second class citizens...we are daughters of the King! sins forgiven!!! Praise Him. Ignore the judgement (and twisting of scripture) by those who dont know the suffering. I suggest to them they visit the local battered womens shelter and see first hand what can happen. Really LOOK into the eyes of a battered woman and her traumatized children. See with the eyes of Jesus.
I know MANY who are divorced and they are far from second class citizens. Yet, these same divorcees believe in the permanency of marriage. They most certainly are not speaking the same message of the destruction of God-joined marriages that many are today. These same divorcees believe the scriptures teach that divorce between those couples GOD joined together is NOT good---no matter the situation. Paul DID give an "out"(hopefully temporary)----"if a woman departs she is to remain unmarried OR be reconciled to her husband". If a woman IS being abused, the Lord DOES understand, but He does NOT want or give permission for what HE joined together to be put away----permanently. That is the flesh, not God. God desires the hardhearted (the offender as well as the offended---whatever the case may be) to repent/and or forgive.............and then for restoration of the family HE joined together to occur. Blessings.......
so whats your church doing to help them? please be specific. feeding the kids? providing her with a place to live and medical care? taking care of her kids when she has to work and they all have the flu? and are you providing security if she has an abusive spouse? do be specific in how you help her.
Tater,
Do you believe God could help someone who has been stripped of everything? Such as someone who loses their house to foreclosure, loses their family in a plane crash, or loses their insurance and has a life threatening illness?
Just about any need is able to be met by God. He even meets to needs of those who don't yet follow Him.
a woman abandoned may have to dial down her lifestyle a bit, because most americans need remedial education about what are needs and what are just wants, and what may be thought of as an "entitlement" but for the most part, a woman who is abandoned emotionally, financially, materially, is not beyond God's ability to help! EVEN if she doesn't know too many who want to help her (fellow believers who should be), she can FULLY trust GOD.
It is her opportunity to grow in depth in her relationship with the LORD of LORDS. He is more than able. Loss does not mean abandonment by God. That is the enemy's taunt, though.
The enemy of our souls is the enemy, not those advocating keeping one's vows to the Lord.
"Dial down her lifestyle"????
Evidently none of you have walked in the shoes of the woman who was thrown out of her home. Try going from a 2500 sq ft home to a minivan. Try going from having 3 meals a day to dumpster diving. Try going hungry so the children could eat.
11 years later, I have a home, I have a career, I drive a nice car, I have an education. NONE of it dropped into my lap...I worked for all of it. And even though I looked to my then church for help, they offered NONE...well...one night in a motel room...that was it.
I made my way...I survived, thrived and succeeded...
It IS possible...
But those of you who advocate staying in an abusive relationship...again, the blood of that woman is on your hands...
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
Ranting and raving: diaryofaravingmom.blogspot.com
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:29:36 PM
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cadz
Posts: 144
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
But those of you who advocate staying in an abusive relationship...again, the blood of that woman is on your hands...
No One is advocating staying in an abusive relationship, Did you read this link posted earlier?
What About Abusive Marriages?
_____________________________
Cheryl
Why I repented of an adulterous remarriage &
cadz FAQ about Divorce & Remarriage
http://www.cadz.net/mdr.html
Visit my audio website http://www.cadz.net to listen to broadcasts on Marriage & Divorce
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:37:11 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 285
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cadz
quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
But those of you who advocate staying in an abusive relationship...again, the blood of that woman is on your hands...
No One is advocating staying in an abusive relationship, Did you read this link posted earlier?
What About Abusive Marriages?
I read your website...I disagree with all of it...
You would deny the woman an opportunity to find love, a relationship, a family again.
Again...I disagree with your point of view, completely.
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
Ranting and raving: diaryofaravingmom.blogspot.com
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:51:51 PM
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hnt
Posts: 541
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Divorce does not "fix" abuse either. In fact God said divorce came from the hardened hearts of people. It is a naive assumption to use divorce-as-a-solution. If anything, it promotes a falseness to the one abusing that they are free to keep abusing others and have no longer any obligations to their original family and partner.
No one said it 'fixed' abuse. No one said it was a 'solution' either!
I think that is where this type of discussion goes right in the dumpster, and the rest of what you may be trying to say is NOT being heard! You can't throw out assumptions that most never even with near in this discussion, and expect others to take the rest of what you say seriously.
The abuser is going to abuse whether he/she is married or not married. They don't feel they have obligations otherwise they wouldn't abuse to begin with! Leaving them doesn't enable them to continue to abuse, and staying doesn't enable them to stop! That makes no sense at all! They have broken all kinds of obligations to the family and the church before separation or divorce as even started. Staying with them so they don't abuse others is hogwash!
Most of the time the abuser is NOT stood up to by anyone except the spouse, and they aren't the best ones to be doing that in all circumstances. The bible asks for action as well as prayer, and you don't see action most of the time. You do see sad stories like smiles4all that she is getting disciplined from the church due to separation. They throw out the uglies so they can pretend it doesn't happen. I don't see many doing to much about about that, and do see people running from house of faith and wondering if God is really like that. THERE is your new vision of God from alot of people's prospective. Instead of beating up others with opinions - we need to be concentrating on that as much as any of the other stuff!
quote:
That man/woman trapped in controlling and violent behavior needs major prayer. They are usually trying to run from God anyway, so they should be viewed as a prodigal to Him. He loves the prodigal(sometimes hard for us to imagine, but then, that would show up our own pride) and is relentless in His motive to humble them, break them and return them to fellowship with HIm (most important) and restore things lost, such as family, legacy, calling and destiny.
I don't agree in whole. You are missing a huge chunk. People who are trapped in abusive relationships AREN'T trying to run away from 'God anyway'. Hogwash! They are running from the image of God they got from others. They are told their view is incorrect, and they are told to keep bending until they get it right.
In most cases the advice people get when dealing with abuse tends to enable the abuser to continue. Victims will bring the abuse into the light, and they are told to be more submissive. How does that effect a control freak? It makes them feel even more entitled to abuse. It doesn't stop it - it makes it worse! You need to make sure they feel more LOVED, and if you look at the abusive relationships 'more loved' isn't what the abuser needs all the time. With their twisted mindset they seem to think HEY they will LOVE ME more even when I rage! Where is in incentive to stop? They haven't received one yet! They keep telling victims to change, and they do nothing for the most part for the abusers. They are shamed when they are weary, because no one really took a good enough look at what is happening! They are told to 'work on themselves', and they basically ignore what is happening.
Is it any wonder people RUN from that image of God? Its NOT that they want to be some prodigal! They are given no hope, no support, no fellowship, and whole lot of accountability! Accountability out of ignorance for the most part. Things get worse - and they are told they aren't doing it good enough...or they don't have enough faith! They give up because they know they can't endure and grow with all these extra burdens upon them. They wonder what love really is, and they wonder how Jesus feels this is how you hand over your burdens to him because his yoke is light! They don't see the 'light' part!
You have to take into account the whole picture, and not make generizations like this. YOu miss a huge chuck again, and people will dismiss the rest of what you are trying to get across!
quote:
Women and men 'writing off' those who have resorted to sinful behavior such as control and cruelty are missing the Gospel. Those ones who are obviously deceived as to the realities of life need major prayer.
If you look at how things are handled most of the time what would you have these broken people see and feel? They just want the abuse to stop so they can breath! If you do ANY reading at all about victims - they don't want to leave their partners. They love them. They want them to stop so they can have some sense of normacy. They want to feel safe in their homes. They don't want the children to be continally damaged. They want someone else besides them reminding the abuser that they are WRONG, and will have support as they walk thru their brokeness and be the person God intended. They do pray and they pray often!
You are leaving out WAY to much of the dynamics!
quote:
Divorce promotion/defense as such can bring quite a bit of consequences spiritually to an individual and a family. There are times when it truly is unavoidable, but seeking it is aligning with a destructive way of thinking that has truly devastated individuals, families and ultimately our culture's underpinnings.
The happenings and the denial of the happenings within relationships are the underpinning of our culture's devastion as well.
Denial and adding burdens that shouldn't be there can bring quite a bit of damage to a person's sense of self, spiritual relationship, etc.
Most of the time you don't see people saying they want a divorce. Don't believe me - go read the other threads! Look at what smiles4all says. They don't want divorces. There are alot of people that DON'T want divorce, and aren't 'aligning' themselves against anything! They aren't getting help either alot of the times, and we wonder why families are going down the tubes.
I think fear is a big part of this. Denial is huge, but fear seems to run it! People SHAME others to stick with it! Fine - lets say they do. Is their partner's soul saved as they continue with their ways? No. I guess you could say the 'union' was kept in tack. The 'one' was there!
As I read my bible and learn of Jesus's character somehow I can't believe that he feels the glory in that. Enabling abusers to continue, and then go to Satan when they die - and say they STAYED married so the covenant was fulfilled and God is pleased just doesn't stick right with me. It doesn't line up with God's character. He wants the abuser's soul as well, and sadly that abuser is pretty much forgotten in this whole mess. the victim that opened their mouths got alot of lip action, and maybe even prayer, and lets say they DID their duty as the spouse. Their partner is still in Hell. God values people more than that.
I see alot more to this personally.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 5:56:49 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1598
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Would you really tell that to a person who is in an abusive marriage? They must stay so that God can be glorified?
NoONE has stated that a woman/person must stay IN THE HOUSEHOLD in the face of abuse.
What many are saying is that SIN (which abuse is) does not dissolve a marriage joined by God. It is God's will to HEAL that broken marriage and nowhere do we find in scripture where He dissolves the marriage bond due to sin. God's heart is towards repentance/restoration with NO time limits, except death, which of course "frees" one in the eyes of the Lord from that union He joined as ONE FLESH.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2008 6:07:41 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1598
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
I read your website...I disagree with all of it...
quote:
You would deny the woman an opportunity to find love, a relationship, a family again. Again...I disagree with your point of view, completely.
And that is the crux of it all, isn't it? The problem is that it is not US who deny the opportunity to find another relationship, it is the Lord who commanded that a woman who departs from her husband REMAIN UNMARRIED. In actuality, you do not really have a problem with those who believe in obedience, you have a problem with the issue of obedience overall---believing that personal DESIRE trumps the commands of the Lord who paid for us.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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