Question about shoes with shoe strings for young children
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Question about shoes with shoe strings for young children - 2/8/2010 10:16:47 PM
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willfs
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I have always wondered why parents place shoes with shoelaces on their children, years before they learn to tie the shoes.
I teach elementary age students. And while I have the less difficult job of teaching them, as opposed to parenting them, I don't understand why parents don't put their children in shoes with velcro until they are closer to the age where they can tie the shoes. I wonder if the parents were around their children all day, while the children wore shoes, if they would be more likely to hold off on getting them laced up shoes, as they would have to tie them throughout the day.
I am interupted all the time to tie shoes. Many times I have to stop class in order to do this. It's no big deal although I have joint problems and it isn't fun to bend down.
If you are trying to teach them to tie laces why not let them practice with you at home. If they can't get it after fifteen minutes then they aren't going to get it by wearing the shoes around all day long for a teacher to tie at their beck and call. Most kids will spend years in laces before they get anywhere near learning how to tie them. Are shoe laces developmentaly appropriate for most younger grades? If they are years, or even months away from learning to tie them for themselves then I don't think they are. I don't think most kids who wear them are in the process of learning. The reason they aren't learning isn't because they don't get enough experience trying but because they just are to the stage where they can complete such tasks. And if they are, the parents need maybe a few weeks at the most to get them there.
It just reminds me of a disagreement I had with a friend over getting a shorter basletball goal for young kids. He said it would stunt the development of the shooting ability of the kids. They needed to just use the regular size goal like the highschool students. My brother began on a mini goal and ended up varsity material in highschool. The little kids needed a goal they could make successful shots on or they would just give up as the ball would never reach anywhere near the basket. Of course, they could go over and ask their teacher to shoot the basket for them.
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If you're approaching Him not as the goal but as a road, not as the end but as a means, you're not really approaching Him at all. - C.S. Lewis
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 10:30:30 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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I homeschool, so I am around them all day.
The reason my kids have lace-up shoes...they are often cheaper.  The last time I needed to get the kids new running shoes, the least expensive ones in stock where I went were all lace-up, from toddler sizes on up. While it is inconvenient to have to lace 3 pairs of shoes, I won't shell out 1.5-2 times the amount of money purely for my own convenience.
Use it as an opportunity to connect with individual kids, give 'em a smile, ask them a question.  If bending down is a problem, have the kid put his foot up on whatever is convenient (chair, railing, stair-step...)
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 10:33:10 PM
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Brandy
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I buy them for my 19month old because I like them better than velcro.
If/when she goes to school I probably will ask the teacher her/his preference and buy shoes for the need. If velcro is requested I will buy and she will only wear them to school.
Maybe she isn't active enough yet in them but she gets them tied when they are put on and maybe once more when we are out to tighten them up.
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Our world of us.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 10:37:38 PM
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willfs
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Use it as an opportunity to connect with individual kids, give 'em a smile, ask them a question. If bending down is a problem, have the kid put his foot up on whatever is convenient (chair, railing, stair-step...)
The idea of connecting to them is a good point I have never thought of when tying their shoes, although I have probably done it subconciously. However, I am usually in a rush when they come up and I am addressing the whole class. Also, a 2/3/4 foot individual can't bring their leg up high enough for a six foot individual, and there is rarely something around to put their foot on as I teach P.E.
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If you're approaching Him not as the goal but as a road, not as the end but as a means, you're not really approaching Him at all. - C.S. Lewis
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 10:41:06 PM
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kohls356
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What are the ages of children you are teaching? All of my children knew how to tie their shoes when they went to school. It never occured to me I guess that a lot of the other kids didn't know how to tie their shoes.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 11:05:33 PM
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willfs
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k through sixth. The ones that ask me to tie shoes are kindergarteners and first graders. I also know that preschoolers wear laced up shoes, which I felt added to my point.
cappucino- cost is a good point in buying laced up shoes. For the cost saving, I don't mind tying some shoes during the day as I know it is expensive to raise those critters.
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If you're approaching Him not as the goal but as a road, not as the end but as a means, you're not really approaching Him at all. - C.S. Lewis
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 11:05:59 PM
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Ruth181
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By elementary school, I assume you mean at least 5 years old? What 5 year old doesn't know how to tie their shoes?
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 11:29:25 PM
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kohls356
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I can see a kindergartener not knowing how to tie their shoes but I think by the second half of first grade most children should know how to tie their own shoes.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 11:36:11 PM
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Kerrlaw
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quote:
It just reminds me of a disagreement I had with a friend over getting a shorter basletball goal for young kids. He said it would stunt the development of the shooting ability of the kids
Does he put his six year old on a full size bicycle too?
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/8/2010 11:38:34 PM
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Saltlight_2188
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I was 7 before I learned to tie my shoes (or ride a bike for that matter). Well into the 2nd grade. Please don't shame them as different children learn different skills at different ages.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 12:12:46 AM
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garsyt
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Often times in a class of 15 to 20 kids, chances are there are a few that DO know how to tie their own shoes. In the school my kids attend and I volunteer in many of the teachers will ask when asked to tie a shoe if there is a "friend that would like to help another friend tie their shoes." This works really well! I have seen kindergartners so proud that they were able to help a classmate AND the one being helped tends to pay more attention to the "how-to's" when a fellow classmate is showing them how.
Maybe you could ask the classroom teachers to make sure everyone's laces are tied before they come down for PE. It would save you some time and energy. That or enlist a parent volunteer or two to come in when you have those age groups.
Velcro is easy, sure. But for some kids, like my now 10 year old, well had he NOT been forced to wear lace up shoes for several months, he likely wouldn't have been FORCED to learn how to tie his own shoes. As it is he was still struggling with this well into 3rd grade.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 8:51:10 AM
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W.O.F.
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We have our children wear lace up and tie shoes because they are cheaper generally..AND I have several children who have very narrow feet..and velcro shoes cannot be fitted tight enough to stay on their feet or keep them from getting blisters. Tied shoes can (I have the same problem as an adult).
My kids have all learned at different times....MOST knew how by 1rst grade at the latest...but we homeschool...so not an issue.
One thing to keep in mind is that some children need to learn how to tie their shoes from someone who is different handed than they are (rh as opposed to lh). I was one of those wierd children. My mother is very left-handed....my older brother is very right handed and could NOT learn from her...so she had one of my right handed uncles teach him. Assuming that I would be the same since I was right handed...my brother and uncles struggled for months to teach me. My mom got frustrated and showed me once...voile...I could tie my shoes. Turns out I am a 'freak' of nature..I am right-hand dominant, but left-eye dominant....and am ambidextrous.....
All that to say....Tie up shoes are a skill...and there are a multitude of reasons why parents put them on their children. Unfortunately as a teacher....that is one of the things you have to deal with.
My biggest issue with younger elementary ed kids when teaching was parents buying snap and zip jeans for the boys...most can't work the snap until they are older.....so that meant every bathroom break required assistance getting them snapped and zipped back up...LOL...but it is a skill they DO eventually learn.....and it doesn't last all that long.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 9:56:09 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
By elementary school, I assume you mean at least 5 years old? What 5 year old doesn't know how to tie their shoes?
Plenty. And there's nothing wrong with a child who doesn't know by that age.
My ds learned to tie his shoes at about 7, my dd when she was 9.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 11:08:32 AM
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garsyt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruth181
By elementary school, I assume you mean at least 5 years old? What 5 year old doesn't know how to tie their shoes?
Plenty. And there's nothing wrong with a child who doesn't know by that age.
My ds learned to tie his shoes at about 7, my dd when she was 9.
My youngest ds was about 9 as well. He just didn't have the fine motor dexterity or the patience for it. My eldest dd however could tie her's at 4 1/2.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 11:45:15 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
quote:
It just reminds me of a disagreement I had with a friend over getting a shorter basletball goal for young kids. He said it would stunt the development of the shooting ability of the kids
Does he put his six year old on a full size bicycle too?
For ages 6-7, the regulation height of a basketball goal is 8 feet. For ages 8-9, the regulation height is 8 1/2 feet. For 10 and over, regulation height is 10 feet. Just FYI.
The schools in our former district required that all entering kindergarten students be able to tie their own shoes.
< Message edited by stellaluna -- 2/9/2010 2:24:55 PM >
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 3:18:12 PM
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heremainsfaithful
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OK, true story:
In the school in TN where I taught, a first grade teacher had a particularly....energetic class. She had to be on full alert pretty much all day. One morning before they went to PE, she bent down for just a few seconds to tie a shoe. CRASH! In that few seconds where her eyes were not on the other 22 kids, one had thrown a chair across the room and hit another child and the wall.
In a full classroom setting, unfortunately, any activity that causes a teacher to have to look away from a group of kids has the potential to cause disaster. It's a shame it's that way; when I was in school we wouldn't have dared to throw a chair just because the teacher wasn't looking. But not all kids are that way.
One thing I do is find those couple of kids who can tie shoes really well. Then I send the other students to them. The kids who can tie shoes feel proud, and the ones who can't want to learn so they can be "helpers" too.
As a parent, I am ashamed to say I caved in to the velcro begging for too long with my son, and at 12 he still can't seem to tie a decent knot!!
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 4:55:57 PM
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FunBetty
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My stepdaughter didn't learn to tie her shoes until last summer ( at age 8 1/2). However, most of her tennis shoes have been the ones you don't need to tie. Today she can tie her laces, but she still wears the untieables....it's just easier for her to slip them on and off.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 8:51:37 PM
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bolt.
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Are you actually sure that all the kids that ask you to tie their laces really can't do it?
Because my 5 year old asks for help with tasks she's well-capable of all the time... especially when she sees that it's pretty easy to get someone to do it for her.
Example: She puts on her own snow pants every day, twice a day... but after Church, she's alway's got some (sucker) helping her.
Perhaps you should give these kids some time and space to deal with their own difficulties, such as maybe saying, "Not right now. Sit right down. It's not safe to walk around with laces undone. Stay there, and I'll be able to help you in a few minutes." Then wait 5 or 10 minutes. I bet you'd be surprised how many kids magically remember how to tie them up -- and those that actually can't are not going to be harmed by learning to wait patiently on your convenience.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 9:23:47 PM
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Memaw.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Often times in a class of 15 to 20 kids, chances are there are a few that DO know how to tie their own shoes. In the school my kids attend and I volunteer in many of the teachers will ask when asked to tie a shoe if there is a "friend that would like to help another friend tie their shoes." This works really well! I have seen kindergartners so proud that they were able to help a classmate AND the one being helped tends to pay more attention to the "how-to's" when a fellow classmate is showing them how.
Garsy
I really like this suggestion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
One thing to keep in mind is that some children need to learn how to tie their shoes from someone who is different handed than they are (rh as opposed to lh).
I am left handed, both my parents were right.
My dad finally taught me by sitting opposite me so that what I saw from my angle was the "right way" for me.
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Everything can change in a blink of an eye. But don't worry: God never blinks.
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 10:42:35 PM
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willfs
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quote:
ORIGINAL: onecoolmom
If you are working on learning a skill, like tying your shoes, why would you put a child in velcro rather than ties? Having ties forces the child to practice. Maybe that is why the parent is putting the child in shoes with ties.
The above point is what I was arguing against. It is a good point that when they see it done for them over and over then they will learn and wearing the shoes all the time will also make them more likely to learn. However, I wonder if many kids are not learning because they are not able to perform such things. If a parent can't sit down with a child for fifteen minutes and get them to tie their shoes then what about when a child is running around at recess and their shoes come undoone? If they can't do it with the help of an adult in fifteen minutes then they can't do it by themselves and will give up after less than a minute.
I am totally ignorant of what it takes to raise a child. So if I am in the wrong, then explain it too me but I feel that the whole "put the shoes on them so they can learn" is not the way to teach them and ends up causing a pain for teachers. I do totally accept the idea of buying laced shoes because of the cost and would not want any parent to feel guilty for one second for purchasing shoes with strings because of cost. As someone who is single and not raising a child I really appreciate what good parents are doing to raise the next generation.
But for those who put the shoes on them so they can learn as they go: I just don't think that's the best way to do it. You wouldn't give your kid, who walked to school, a bike to take with them before they knew how to ride because they won't learn unless you give it to them. No, you take them out on the street and teach them to ride and then when they've got it you let them take the bike to school.
I really think that those who put laces on a child who doesn't know how to tie his/her shoes is only sending out a child who will ask the adults they bump into throughout the day to bend over and tie their shoes until two things happen: they develop the motor skills needed to tie a shoe and someone sits down and teaches them. I don't see why (except for the above stated exception) you need to give a child a shoe with laces until those two things happen.
< Message edited by willfs -- 2/9/2010 11:08:13 PM >
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If you're approaching Him not as the goal but as a road, not as the end but as a means, you're not really approaching Him at all. - C.S. Lewis
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 10:46:55 PM
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willfs
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Yes, the idea of having other kids tie shoes is one of the many great points made above.
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If you're approaching Him not as the goal but as a road, not as the end but as a means, you're not really approaching Him at all. - C.S. Lewis
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/9/2010 11:39:28 PM
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luvsrickforever
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I tried to do this last night and it wouldn't let me, so I am going to try again.
I am a permanent substitute preschool teacher for Head Start. I love my job. However, tying shoes is another story.
I grew up in the 60's. No Velcro then so we had to have shoes with laces. We also had to learn to tie our own shoes. I think I was a late tier but I did learn. I had to. We were not allowed to leave our shoes untied. If you were a girl, you also learned to buckle your shoes too.
My nephew leaves his shoes untied all the time. He's 12. I keep telling him to tie them because they are long but he doesn't. I'm waiting for him to trip and fall and then maybe he will tie them.
At our school, we will tie a child's shoes once, double knot them. I try to knot them as tight as possible so the child can't untie them. I'm only 4'6" so it's not to much trouble to tie a child's shoes. Some of my preschoolers are almost my height! LOL However, we have some children who are so clever, they can untie my tight laces. We tell them "if you can't tie your own shoes, don't untie them, because we will not keep tying them." If they untie them again, we put them inside their shoes and don't tie them.
I like Velcro because I don't have to tie shoes. I even have Velcro shoes. What don't I like about them? What one poster said, they aren't as tight as tied shoes, although I suspect that a lot of our parents get them from other kids, like older brothers and sisters because sometimes they are really big. In that case, it doesn't matter if they are tie shoes or not. The other thing I don't like about Velcro is if stuff gets stuck on the Velcro like threads or they get stuck to your clothes or they get old, they won't Velcro anymore. I've seen that with some of our kids. Now the shoes won't stay on them at all. That's when I really like tie shoes because that can't happen. I also think Velcro tells kids that they don't have to learn to tie shoes and sometimes, you need to tie shoes, like dress shoes for boys unless they get slip on's.
Another thing about tie shoes and I have found this with my shoes too, which I have to buy in the kids dept. I am a size 2 1/2 - 3 size shoe. I bought a pair that had terribly long laces. Even when I double knotted them, I was almost tripping on them. Some of our kids have laces like that. I figured out how to tie them one more time after they were double knotted so they weren't that long. Then there are the kids, and I have not found this to be the case with my shoes, where the laces are so small that I almost can't tie them. I want to know why they make them like that? Why can't their be an in between size for shoe laces and put them on all kids shoes?
One day when I didn't need to, I put my shoes on and double knotted them. I think I had been at school to long that day. LOL
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RE: Question about shoes with shoe strings for young ch... - 2/10/2010 9:11:08 AM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
One thing to keep in mind is that some children need to learn how to tie their shoes from someone who is different handed than they are (rh as opposed to lh).
I am left handed, both my parents were right.
My dad finally taught me by sitting opposite me so that what I saw from my angle was the "right way" for me.
yeah...I meant to clarify my post by saying that if you and your child are same handed..and child can't seem to learn...have a different handed person teach them....because some people are cross dominant like I am.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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When they were babies, I had these cut little bells thingys that hid the strings so they could not untie them. Yes, I was with my kids all day. I did the tying not a teacher. But guess what a teacher teaches.
