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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 12:07:22 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17763
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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Maybe they could force the stores to hire their own security instead or face serious fines.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 12:51:50 PM
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GregandJenny
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This is why it's nice to shop online.
It's really a sad situation and my heart goes out to the family. I believe that Wal-mart would honor this individual by not participating in Black Friday. As a previous poster said, people will buy what they want and what they need.
G
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 1:23:41 PM
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lexie
Posts: 2948
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From: Toronto
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quote:
and I wish stores would do more to avoid the mayhem.
When I worked retail, would we only allow a certain number of shoppers in the store at a time. Most stores in malls seem to do that now. It used to work very well, but since crowds can apparently break the doors down, I guess it doesn't matter anymore. I guess we need armed security now to shoot down people as they run in the store.
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 1:34:29 PM
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Mark328
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Wal-Mart is particularly bad when it comes to crowd control, mainly because they're too cheap to care.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 1:40:54 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace-N-Mercy
I guess I just don't want the stores to be controlled by any more government than they already are. However, I agree that camping out should be controlled by the city and/or county officials who could put up blockades to the major stores to prevent people from camping out. I'm pretty sure there are laws against that. Unfortunately, most city & county officials are over-worked as it is and probably don't have the manpower to hang out in front of every Walmart, Target, shopping mall, etc. 
Public nuisance laws DO require property owners- including retail/commercial properties- to regulate their premises for the safety of their customers. The problem is that few retailers follow these laws. Wal-mart certainly has the money to hire a few security guards year-round and extras for Black Friday and other "special" sales days to prevent such unruly behavior and dangerous conditions. They should also follow the law and keep people off the premises before the store opens. Customers who refuse to co-operate should be charged and turned over to the police.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 1:42:25 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 926
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
It is mob mentality. About thirty years ago, several concert goers where killed in Cincinatti at a Who concert in a mad rush for in a rush for seats at festival-seating concert,
30 years? Gee I'm getting old I remember when this happened. Mob mentality has always been brutal and dangerous but I believe it stems from selfishness which is actally encouraged these days. Are we really surprised when a group kills someone and they probably blame everyone else?
< Message edited by LivingParadox -- 11/29/2008 1:55:53 PM >
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Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 8:34:22 PM
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relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
They call them "doorbuster" specials and I think the retailers are completely responsible. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if I learned that the family of this worker has every intention of holding the retailer responsible, complete with lawsuit. I know I sure would consider it. This is inexcusable.
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We don't need the govt to regulate this, the retailers need to stop this on their own. Although I tend to agree, what if they won't stop it on their own? What then?
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I hope his family brings a wrongful death suit against Walmart and I also hope the people who trampled over other human beings are found and brought to justice. I sincerely hope no one that was a part of that slept at all last night. Couldn't agree more!
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/29/2008 10:43:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Public nuisance laws DO require property owners- including retail/commercial properties- to regulate their premises for the safety of their customers. The problem is that few retailers follow these laws. Wal-mart certainly has the money to hire a few security guards year-round and extras for Black Friday and other "special" sales days to prevent such unruly behavior and dangerous conditions. They should also follow the law and keep people off the premises before the store opens. Customers who refuse to co-operate should be charged and turned over to the police.
And when those rent-a-cops starting man-handling folks some of same people here wringing their hands over this would speak of suing Wal-Mart for being heavy handed because they are big company therefore evil.. And the idea of having CUSTOMERS arrested for waiting for the store to open is ludicrous...
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 12:59:49 AM
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aslouie
Posts: 710
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Public nuisance laws DO require property owners- including retail/commercial properties- to regulate their premises for the safety of their customers. The problem is that few retailers follow these laws. Wal-mart certainly has the money to hire a few security guards year-round and extras for Black Friday and other "special" sales days to prevent such unruly behavior and dangerous conditions. They should also follow the law and keep people off the premises before the store opens. Customers who refuse to co-operate should be charged and turned over to the police.
And when those rent-a-cops starting man-handling folks some of same people here wringing their hands over this would speak of suing Wal-Mart for being heavy handed because they are big company therefore evil.. And the idea of having CUSTOMERS arrested for waiting for the store to open is ludicrous...
If that's the case, does that mean we'll have the retailers request riot police presence, maybe even the National Guard, just to help out with crowd control--provided there will be plenty of folks who will be willing to get hired for such a "seasonal" position?
But then again, that's provided that some of our military/police pros are coming home from Iraq (if not transitioning to Afghanistan) soon enough to quell THIS kind of "domestic strife," but that will lead us back to another existing thread. 
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 2:37:18 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 291
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quote:
Stores should be held accountable.
I don't agree with this at all. People and people alone are responsible for their own actions. Just as alcohol alone does not cause drunk driving, guns themselves do not kill people, and McDonald's does not cause obesity. People in this country need to start taking responsibility for their actions and need to think of others first. However, this blame, blame, blame corporate America has gotten out of hand; even (sadly) among Christian people who should understand about sin nature and personal responsibility.
Along the same lines, there was a story on Fox news about parents being upset at toy makers for advertising their toys on TV. How about just turning the TV off??
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 2:45:36 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2429
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
quote:
Stores should be held accountable.
I don't agree with this at all. People and people alone are responsible for their own actions. Just as alcohol alone does not cause drunk driving, guns themselves do not kill people, and McDonald's does not cause obesity. People in this country need to start taking responsibility for their actions and need to think of others first. However, this blame, blame, blame corporate America has gotten out of hand; even (sadly) among Christian people who should understand about sin nature and personal responsibility.
Along the same lines, there was a story on Fox news about parents being upset at toy makers for advertising their toys on TV. How about just turning the TV off??
I really don't blame the stores either, at least not to the extent that others want to. Like I said before, I wouldn't be pregnant and trying to do that on Black Friday. Perhaps I'd shop after the doors had been open a good while. I wouldn't open the door either. Perhaps people should realize they're taking a risk. I do think stores could help out more with control, but if you don't want to risk it, then don't. Don't get into the crowd that's trying to pack into the store... it's not worth the risk of being trampled and getting me and/or my unborn baby killed for some good "deals."
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 2:46:21 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 465
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Isn't there where someone makes a point that laws don't change things and we should just pray? And that trampling people is a heart issue...
This is also where someone says that it was the Lord's will and this person was supposed to die. Maybe we shouldn't be complaining since it was the Lord's will and who are we to question God's actions?
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Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 3:16:26 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1499
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quote:
I really don't blame the stores either, at least not to the extent that others want to. Like I said before, I wouldn't be pregnant and trying to do that on Black Friday. Perhaps I'd shop after the doors had been open a good while. I wouldn't open the door either. Perhaps people should realize they're taking a risk. I do think stores could help out more with control, but if you don't want to risk it, then don't. Don't get into the crowd that's trying to pack into the store... it's not worth the risk of being trampled and getting me and/or my unborn baby killed for some good "deals."
Well, yes, to some extent. But, the thing is, a venue is invariably responsible for taking reasonable steps to ensure the safety of their customers and employees. This is why establishments have maximum occupancy limits, are required to have clearly marked fire exits, must follow health codes, etc. Stores are *willfully* increasing the risks to their customers by creating and further encouraging these mob scenes, and not compensating by adding necessary security. By now, they should know better. But, either they haven't figured it out or don't care.
If they don't have the facilities to handle the events safely, then they should either get the facilities, or not hold the events. It is possible to host large events safely. A venue choosing not to be concerned with safety should at least be partially culpable. "Don't create a mob scene that has a high likelihood to KILL PEOPLE" should be a pretty high priority for any establishment.
As for trampling people... it doesn't really take a lot if the flow of people is not controlled well. Studies have shown that most of the "tramplers" in this sort of tragedy did not wish to hurt anyone, but with a mob pressing on their backs (who could not see what was happening ahead) they basically had the choice of either moving forward or being knocked down and trampled themselves. Basic physics. If you don't control the mass flow to start with, bad things happen.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 8:31:03 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
quote:
Stores should be held accountable.
I don't agree with this at all. People and people alone are responsible for their own actions. Just as alcohol alone does not cause drunk driving, guns themselves do not kill people, and McDonald's does not cause obesity. People in this country need to start taking responsibility for their actions and need to think of others first.
Part of "taking responsibility for your own actions" is taking responsibility for actions that encourage a mob mentality. If I yell "FIRE" in a theater and somebody gets trampled and killed in the mad rush to escape, I'm going to be on the hook for a lot more than being a public nuisance. Having a big sale isn't illegal like panicking everybody about a non-existent fire, but it does have the ability to create the same sort of mob-like hysteria. Stores know this and should bear some responsibility for the outcome of the situations they create.
quote:
However, this blame, blame, blame corporate America has gotten out of hand; even (sadly) among Christian people who should understand about sin nature and personal responsibility.
It goes both ways. Some people want to blame the evil corporations for everything, but others want to let them off the hook and absolve them of any responsibility. "Sin" doesn't just include trampling somebody to get at a cheap tv. Sin also includes knowingly tempting others into dangerous behavior so that they'll buy your cheap tv. Both are examples of greed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
I really don't blame the stores either, at least not to the extent that others want to. Like I said before, I wouldn't be pregnant and trying to do that on Black Friday. Perhaps I'd shop after the doors had been open a good while. I wouldn't open the door either. Perhaps people should realize they're taking a risk. I do think stores could help out more with control, but if you don't want to risk it, then don't. Don't get into the crowd that's trying to pack into the store... it's not worth the risk of being trampled and getting me and/or my unborn baby killed for some good "deals."
Well, yes, to some extent. But, the thing is, a venue is invariably responsible for taking reasonable steps to ensure the safety of their customers and employees. This is why establishments have maximum occupancy limits, are required to have clearly marked fire exits, must follow health codes, etc. Stores are *willfully* increasing the risks to their customers by creating and further encouraging these mob scenes, and not compensating by adding necessary security. By now, they should know better. But, either they haven't figured it out or don't care.
If they don't have the facilities to handle the events safely, then they should either get the facilities, or not hold the events. It is possible to host large events safely. A venue choosing not to be concerned with safety should at least be partially culpable. "Don't create a mob scene that has a high likelihood to KILL PEOPLE" should be a pretty high priority for any establishment.
Exactly. This isn't a new phenomenon. The dynamics of crowd behavior and control are not poorly understood. If nearly a million people can safely stream into and out of a handful of football stadiums every weekend, a few hundred should be able to get into a Wal-Mart.
I'm not so much against Wal-Mart as I am against greedy, careless business owners trying to milk a few extra bucks out of their patrons by creating dangerous situations. I can probably go into any town and find a bar w/ a band playing that's got some sort of fire code violation - either the room is overcrowded, fire exits are blocked, etc. Why? Because people are cheap, lazy, and greedy. A couple weeks ago, 8 bars in Boston were slated to be shut down for not having installed sprinklers that were mandated under a law enacted four years ago (the article was written morning of the deadline; I don't know how many got it done at the last minute). 3/4 of the establishments initially covered under the law found ways to get themselves exempted rather than install sprinklers.
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 11/30/2008 8:58:09 PM >
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 9:43:31 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1368
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I found this interesting
quote:
It should be noted here that even though the Wal-Mart shoppers stampeded over a human being, they did not stampede over their coveted consumer electronics or big-screen TVs. No merchandise in the store was harmed in the stampede, which just goes to show you: To the herd, the value of a human life is LESS than the value of consumer electronics.
Savage Wal-Mart Shoppers Trample Worker to Death
It's amazing how the American culture has been indoctrinated into not doing anything that would threaten the profit margins of large corporations (ie: if you break it, you buy it), so much so that we seem to value our instincts to avoid doing anything that would cost these large corporations any profits more than we value our instincts not to kill low level employees (I'm not saying that we should go to stores and break things, just that human life should instinctively be worth more than profits).
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:01:40 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
It should be noted here that even though the Wal-Mart shoppers stampeded over a human being, they did not stampede over their coveted consumer electronics or big-screen TVs. No merchandise in the store was harmed in the stampede, which just goes to show you: To the herd, the value of a human life is LESS than the value of consumer electronics.
Because of how it was packaged and placed in the store it wasn't hurt. Ours did it so that we were let in early and if anyone has taken part in this silly tradition they would know that often the lines grow at a ludicrous rate in the last half hour or 45 minutes. The store handled this very poorly there but rather well where I was.
The only thing that will bring this to an end is a civil suit by those who have been injured or by the family of this man. In civil court the burden of proof is far less than in criminal court- just ask OJ. ; )
_____________________________
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I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:13:05 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1499
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
It should be noted here that even though the Wal-Mart shoppers stampeded over a human being, they did not stampede over their coveted consumer electronics or big-screen TVs. No merchandise in the store was harmed in the stampede, which just goes to show you: To the herd, the value of a human life is LESS than the value of consumer electronics.
Savage Wal-Mart Shoppers Trample Worker to Death
It's amazing how the American culture has been indoctrinated into not doing anything that would threaten the profit margins of large corporations (ie: if you break it, you buy it), so much so that we seem to value our instincts to avoid doing anything that would cost these large corporations any profits more than we value our instincts not to kill low level employees (I'm not saying that we should go to stores and break things, just that human life should instinctively be worth more than profits).
Well, frankly, that's a physics problem too, really. Both street traffic and crowd control can both be modeled as a fluid dynamics problem.
You have to imagine "people" as "water". The door is a choke point, and "water" pressure builds up behind it. The "water" outside the door can't see that someone has been knocked down and/or injured... the "water" that's gotten through the door cannot stop because of all the pressure behind it from people pushing forward to get in. They either get pushed forward, or they fall down and are themselves trampled.
Once inside the store, the "water" pressure subsides... both because the people spread out to the specific deals they're after, and because they can better see what's ahead of them and around them. Many more "channels" (aisles in this case) are available as alternate paths, so there's not the massive push that was shoving people through the door in an uncontrollable wave.
So, I would say that it's not so much that the value of the man's life was less than that of the consumer electronics... it's that there was no awareness in the back of the crowd of the issues at the front of the crowd, and the massive pressure made it impossible to stop the initial unflux as a result of that. All the store had to do was control the influx of customers (and there are many ways to do that, as should be evident from any venue that requires the channeling of large numbers of people all at once without injury, such as sports stadiums, concert halls, political rallies, etc), and the entire tragedy could have been avoided. Pretty easily, even. A simple set of turnstiles or half a dozen security guards would probably have been sufficient.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:31:40 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1368
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Because of how it was packaged and placed in the store it wasn't hurt.
They put all this effort into making sure their items aren't hurt (because that would cost them profits), but they don't bother to put the same effort to ensure that their employees are safe. Thanks for further making my point.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So, I would say that it's not so much that the value of the man's life was less than that of the consumer electronics... it's that there was no awareness in the back of the crowd of the issues at the front of the crowd, and the massive pressure made it impossible to stop the initial unflux as a result of that.
Oh please, with all the effort and money that goes into deterring shoplifting (see New way to deter shoplifting for example), they can afford to have done something that would have prevented something like this. If they had even had speakers in the front of the store where they could say, "step away from the doors as we open them" or something simple like that, this whole mess could have been avoided. But they're too busy (as rlj points out) putting all their resources and time into preventing profit loss (ie: their items from being hurt) that they aren't willing to put the effort required to prevent their employees from being hurt. It's OK for them to put all this effort into preventing profit loss, but it's not OK for them to put the same effort into preventing their employees from being hurt.
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ORIGINAL: 1970rodney
Rami is right they have no shame. Cut off a finger or two and if they continue maybe hand. Pain is often a great deterent to crime.
(same thread as linked to above, post 10).
It's OK for them to put all this effort into avoiding profit loss, but they don't seem to care to put that effort into avoiding low level employees from being killed (and, to the extent that they do put effort into protecting low level employees, it's only to avoid lawsuits so they won't lose profits). After all, these employees are just a commodity, the store can easily replace them.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 11/30/2008 10:45:10 PM >
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:50:51 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1368
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If you really think these corporations value human life more than profits, just look at the trucking industry.
quote:
Fatigue is the number one problem in the trucking industry and tired truckers kill. The new regulations would extend the maximum time on the road from 10 to 12 hours. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, truck driver fatigue may be a contributing factor in up to 40 percent of all heavy truck crashes. Upping the amount of time drivers can spend behind the wheel is dangerous to both truckers and others on the road. In 1999 over 5,200 people were killed and 127,000 injured in crashes involving large trucks. Large trucks are also more likely to be involved in pileups. The answer is clear: truckers need more rest.
http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1313b-1.html
Trucking employers know that working their employees too many hours increases fatality rates. Do they care? So long as working their employees more hours increases profits, they can care less. They lobby to increase the hour regulations and they work there truckers as many hours as would maximize their profits, with little regard for human life. Do you really think Wal - Mart is any different? I doubt it.
and our government isn't any better. They're too busy worrying about things like how much profits red yeast rice (a substance that has practically harmed no one) costs pharmaceutical corporations to fix this trucking issue.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 11/30/2008 11:10:18 PM >
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:52:55 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1499
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
Oh please, with all the effort and money that goes into deterring shoplifting (see New way to deter shoplifting for example), they can afford to have done something that would have prevented something like this. If they had even had speakers in the front of the store where they could say, "step away from the doors as we open them" or something simple like that, this whole mess could have been avoided. But they're too busy (as rlj points out) putting all their resources and time into preventing profit loss (ie: their items from being hurt) that they aren't willing to put the effort required to prevent their employees from being hurt. It's OK for them to put all this effort into preventing profit loss, but it's not OK for them to put the same effort into preventing their employees from being hurt.
Oh, I entirely agree that the store has some fault (most of it, in fact, in my opinion) in creating this situation and not ensuring the safety of their employees and customers. I'm just trying to point out that the "herd" pointed to in your quote did not necessarily make a conscious choice to kill the employee, but not damage the TV, due to some sort of skewed value system. They're different scenarios, and if anything it rather proves my point that if the store so chooses, they CAN avoid mob-related damage a lot better than they apparently did for the poor employee who was killed.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 10:56:04 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1368
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I'm just trying to point out that the "herd" pointed to in your quote did not necessarily make a conscious choice to kill the employee, but not damage the TV, due to some sort of skewed value system.
I understand that it wasn't a conscious effort, the point is that our actions are instinctively programmed not to do anything that would hurt the profit margins of large corporations, more so than our instincts not to harm others. This also includes the employees at Wal Mart who didn't do enough to prevent this scenario but managed to do enough to prevent their items from being broken.
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ORIGINAL: lexie
And it's not even that the man opened the doors and there was a rush of people, these people took the doors off of the hinges.
Well, maybe that cost them something.
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RE: Wal-Mart Worker Dies When Shoppers Break Down Doors - 11/30/2008 11:11:20 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1499
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
I understand that it wasn't a conscious effort, the point is that our actions are instinctively programmed not to do anything that would hurt the profit margins of large corporations, more so than our instincts not to harm others. This also includes the employees at Wal Mart who didn't do enough to prevent this scenario but managed to do enough to prevent their items from being broken.
Mmm. I think you're misunderstanding the distinction I'm making.
People do not generally attempt to assault either objects or other people if they a) know they're there, and b) have alternatives to doing so. It has nothing to do with profit margins, it has to do with the fact that the crush of people attempting to enter the door did not a) know that the employee had fallen in the path of the mob, and b) have an alternative when they realized they were being shoved over the man in question. Once inside the store, no one else got trampled farther in, and no one trampled merchandise, because there were alternative paths to where they were attempting to go, and because they could see far enough ahead to understand the consequences and impossibility of forcing any forward momentum. This is the difference between a small single opaque choke point such as a door, and various visible channels of motion such as store aisles.
The merchandise was not damaged or trampled because it was stowed away protected by relatively immobile objects (shelving) with a good field of visibility showing the people that there was, in fact, an immobile object that pushing forward would most likely not overcome. People coming into the door were not expecting a fallen employee, nor was the employee protected by a relatively immobile object, so by the time they realized what was happening to the employee it was far too late.
This is not an unusual phenomenon. Cross reference fire-related tragedies in clubs who have illegally barred fire exits during a fire... even if the fire does not harm anyone, there are often injuries from crushing as people attempting to escape are crushed against the unexpectedly immobile exits.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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I guess I'd think that people would think twice about doing something like that and understand the risk they take by going (esp. when pregnant), knowing that people have gotten injured and trampled in the past on Black Fridays. It is unfortunate; I just wish people would really think about it before they go (but if they want to take the risk, then that's what they choose), and I wish stores would do more to avoid the mayhem.
Mart was neglectful, however there have been several customer fatalities where Wal 
