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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/27/2008 8:38:48 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 267
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
I am watching the news of terrorism in India right now. 80 dead hundreds wounded... (the death toll went up to 90 as I typed this), they are targeting westerners. Most of these people do not care about their life, they think they will be rewarded for killing 'infidels'... but they do care about their parents, their children, and their siblings. Sometimes a homicide bomber's family will get a check. I think Hussein was doing that with palestinians... but we don't have to worry about him or his thug kids anymore.
So... would I be a bad person if I suggested that whenever a terrorist is killed or caught and identified that their whole family be killed? That may sound cold but it would save lives. If a person were considering making a terrorist attack and they knew that by their actions they would be sentencing their whole family to death... they might reconsider. I think terrorism would become a thing of the past.
I realize that sounds harsh and it is harsh but this world is not fair and sometimes the innocent suffer.
What would Darius do? What would Andy Jackson do?
We have become soft and that is why terrorism is the problem that it is.
This is just my opinion and it may change tomorrow, feel free to disagree... and don't worry, i'm not likely to become king anytime soon.... but buddy, if I did...
J
I think Hitler and Stalin tried this. But, I do understand your frustration, and maybe confusion, trying to make heads or tails out of this whole terrorism thing. Maybe it was the confusion part that caused the U.S. to invade Iraq when the enemy was clearly in Afghanistan.
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/28/2008 12:31:12 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The answer to terrorism is what we are doing.
Protect ourselves as best we can thorugh tightening security.
Keep a strong military with a mind that it is necessary to use it.
React in a measured but swift manner that leaves no doubt, we are not to be trifled with.
Stand by our agreements. While we will always take the higher ground, there is a time to talk and a time to act. Killing 3000 of our innocent civilains was a declaration of war. If we react to that attack by more talk?
We will be attacked again.
We can't make evil disappear. We can only fight it.
I dunno, it seems kinda like "we are not to be trifled with" isn't really something that's going to faze a person who is, say, insane and/or willing to blow himself up.
I don't disagree that we will be attacked again, and I don't disagree that we can't make evil disappear. But I think that "fighting it" is a reactive solution that only allows up to pick up the pieces after the buildings are destroyed and the people are dead. "Fighting" may be effective for dissolving networks of bad guys, but, assuming a small enough or independent enough group, not much can help beyond a lot of luck.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/28/2008 1:24:22 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
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quote:
But I think that "fighting it" is a reactive solution that only allows up to pick up the pieces after the buildings are destroyed and the people are dead. "Fighting" may be effective for dissolving networks of bad guys, but, assuming a small enough or independent enough group, not much can help beyond a lot of luck.
With the muslim radicals and the ideology we're up against, should we do something other than fight? Should we coddle them? Pacify them? Invite them to the table and talk over our differences?
Their goal is to convert the infidels to Allah or kill them. There is no middle ground in this war. That's what so many people seem to want, find the middle ground. Sad thing is that those in the middle all too often don't know what they're dying for.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/28/2008 9:43:27 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
But I think that "fighting it" is a reactive solution that only allows up to pick up the pieces after the buildings are destroyed and the people are dead. "Fighting" may be effective for dissolving networks of bad guys, but, assuming a small enough or independent enough group, not much can help beyond a lot of luck.
With the muslim radicals and the ideology we're up against, should we do something other than fight? Should we coddle them? Pacify them? Invite them to the table and talk over our differences?
Their goal is to convert the infidels to Allah or kill them. There is no middle ground in this war. That's what so many people seem to want, find the middle ground. Sad thing is that those in the middle all too often don't know what they're dying for.
I think that's a painfully simplistic way of understanding the world. You might as well examine a crime scene using only black and white photographs. No, terrorism happens for a myriad of reasons, with a myriad of motivating factors, and frequently the terrorists have, surprisingly enough, actual grievances that it may be in civilization's best interest to at least look at.
Osama bin Ladin, for example, believes that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries. This, unrealistic though it may seem and distasteful as it might be, is not "convert or kill". Given his popularity, I don't think he's alone in his ire towards the United States' military presence in the Middle East.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/28/2008 2:47:41 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
But I think that "fighting it" is a reactive solution that only allows up to pick up the pieces after the buildings are destroyed and the people are dead. "Fighting" may be effective for dissolving networks of bad guys, but, assuming a small enough or independent enough group, not much can help beyond a lot of luck.
With the muslim radicals and the ideology we're up against, should we do something other than fight? Should we coddle them? Pacify them? Invite them to the table and talk over our differences?
Their goal is to convert the infidels to Allah or kill them. There is no middle ground in this war. That's what so many people seem to want, find the middle ground. Sad thing is that those in the middle all too often don't know what they're dying for.
How do we define fighting it? Do we fight in terms of just war? Or do we go out of our way to kill innocent people?
Perhaps our government or a foreign government may decide that killing innocent people is acceptable, but God says otherwise. Deuteronomy 24:16 makes it clear that this practice is unlawful and constitutes murder. Thus, no Christian in government should be supporting this practice.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/28/2008 10:54:41 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
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From: my mom by God
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Please name one legitimate reason why a terrorist would attack our nation.
Haven't we talked enough? Don't we do enough?
WE ARE THE VICTIM, not the aggressor not matter how much your politics demand you deride the opposite party president in power.
To even suggest anyone has the right to kill civilians outside of a war zone just because they are americans is total depravity.
To say civilians in war that are killed makes us an evil nation and a target of terrorism is limited in vision and prejudicial.
For all the talk about how we don't understand the terrorists, those same people don't understand them either. They think we can appease them.
You cannot. They want you, your family, and every non-muslim dead or muslim.
Calling us stupid does not make us......stupid. Nice try but its too easy to debunk.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 1:04:51 AM
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zamdad
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Hangshuan. And you call my view of this simplistic?
Blessedinnyc. You can have your opinion and be thankful that there are men and women brave enough to die for your right to have your opinion.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 1:20:50 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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It right here...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/faeanim.gif
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 2:31:18 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Blessedinnyc. You can have your opinion and be thankful that there are men and women brave enough to die for your right to have your opinion.
Sort of like those people who ride the subway through Greeley Square every morning so we can fund the federal debt and make sure our troops get their essential supplies? Or maybe you haven't read the news lately about the holiday surprise the terrorists are planning for New York.
Don't get me wrong- I understand that innocent civilians are accidentally killed in wars (Although this should be minimized, it isn't murder). I am specifically referring to the OP's plan of deliberately going out of our way to hunt down and kill specific civilians because of who they are related to.
If that is the case, I think I am one of the people in this thread with the biggest stake in all of this, and the blowback will most likely fall on me and other New Yorkers. If we are going to go out of our way to attack people who aren't murderers, this does nothing to keep me safe. In fact, I believe it increases my likelihood of getting killed by terrorists.
quote:
To even suggest anyone has the right to kill civilians outside of a war zone just because they are americans is total depravity.
At least from my reading of the posts, the only people in this thread who are advocating the killing of innocent civilians outside a war zone are those who are in support of the plan to murder terrorists' family members.
And it's true- that would be total depravity. The last time a western government organized a plan to systematically hunt down and kill innocent civilians was during the Holocaust.
At the very least, if we are going to do this, it might be most efficient to wait until all of the terrorist hijackers' innocent family members are on the same flight and forcibly gain control of the aircraft...
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 11/29/2008 3:01:25 AM >
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 3:01:04 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
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quote:
If that is the case, I think I am one of the people in this thread with the biggest stake in all of this, and the blowback will most likely fall on me and other New Yorkers. If we are going to go out of our way to attack people who aren't murderers, this does nothing to keep me safe. In fact, I believe it increases my likelihood of getting killed by terrorists.
If this is the case, as i sit here at this very moment, why should I fuss if a few more New Yorkers were killed? I don't intend for this to sound cruel and cold hearted. Yet, I live in a very rural area. But most of the votes electing our house and senate come from those of tou in large metropolitan areas. The same voters who turn their backs on those of us in rural farming communities. While Osama and his cronies might want to strike targets that are going to bring the greatest amount of casualties. they way the metro mentality treats us country bumpkins, perhaps we should ally ourseves with Osama?
It's my kids who volunteer and serve with dignity so that you can have your New York lifestyle, your right to report the news as you see it, and your right to have whatever opinion you hold dear. While there might be many metro kids enlisting, many more come from the heartland. And, frankly, from here it feels like journalists and those with the metro mindset have left us for the wolves.
By the way. If you drive through my part of the heartland, you will find me protecting and serving.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 3:30:07 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
If this is the case, as i sit here at this very moment, why should I fuss if a few more New Yorkers were killed? I don't intend for this to sound cruel and cold hearted.
Then this is a matter for the city dwellers to resolve. I am not accusing you of advocating the murder of terrorists families, but if you are, we are better off without that.
quote:
Yet, I live in a very rural area. But most of the votes electing our house and senate come from those of tou in large metropolitan areas. The same voters who turn their backs on those of us in rural farming communities.
Alas, I am sorry for that. I do my best to vote for the more libertarian candidate so we can hopefully keep big government out of your hair. In all fairness, though, New York City (as well as Chicago) consumes fewer state resources than the taxes it produces. Those excess taxes then go up (or down) state to the rural communities.
quote:
While Osama and his cronies might want to strike targets that are going to bring the greatest amount of casualties. they way the metro mentality treats us country bumpkins, perhaps we should ally ourseves with Osama?.
Uhh, I never perceived that we treated you guys badly. Remember all those electoral maps that came out in 1996 when Clinton defeated Dole that showed 2/3 of the map voting Republican? The reason Clinton won was that there's more people in the cities and suburbs. You guys may have a lot more land than we do, but four people in the city are just as important to the media as four people in the country- isn't that reasonable?
quote:
It's my kids who volunteer and serve with dignity so that you can have your New York lifestyle, your right to report the news as you see it, and your right to have whatever opinion you hold dear. While there might be many metro kids enlisting, many more come from the heartland. And, frankly, from here it feels like journalists and those with the metro mindset have left us for the wolves.
The city lifestyle has gotten pretty interesting recently. One of my friends taught me that it's best to duck under the seats of the subway car if the terrorists are doing a shooting or are about to do a bombing in the station we pull into. It feels like the early '90s, again!
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 10:03:29 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Please name one legitimate reason why a terrorist would attack our nation.
Given the illegitimacy of terrorism, that seems like a trick question. But at the same time, events like theft or murder don't happen in a vacuum, and otherwise illegitimate acts seem reasonable when anger and/or tragedy clouds one's judgment.
The causes of this anger and/or tragedy are things that affected parties have an interest in looking at.
quote:
To say civilians in war that are killed makes us an evil nation and a target of terrorism is limited in vision and prejudicial.
For all the talk about how we don't understand the terrorists, those same people don't understand them either. They think we can appease them.
You cannot. They want you, your family, and every non-Muslim dead or Muslim.
Wait... civilian casualties aren't victims? Even if accidental, do you understand how collateral damage might come back to haunt us? Even looking beyond direct loss of life, war ravages countries, and loss of infrastructure can make life unbearable.
If we create victims, however inadvertently, that means that at least in some respect we are, in fact, the aggressor and your calculations need to be revised.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Huangshan. And you call my view of this simplistic?
Yes, and I told you why. I would hope you could manage the same if you disagree with my analysis.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 10:18:04 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
Even if accidental, do you understand how collateral damage might come back to haunt us?
War is war. These things happen..esspecialy if our enemies hide in with the civilians. If civilians are killed, its the terrorists fault.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 10:35:47 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Even if accidental, do you understand how collateral damage might come back to haunt us?
War is war. These things happen..esspecialy if our enemies hide in with the civilians. If civilians are killed, its the terrorists fault.
...and it's their duty, as they die and they see their families die as collateral damage from American tactics, that it's not America's fault, it's the terrorists the Americans are shooting at. It's those guys' fault.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 10:54:32 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 559
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
I am watching the news of terrorism in India right now. 80 dead hundreds wounded... (the death toll went up to 90 as I typed this), they are targeting westerners. Most of these people do not care about their life, they think they will be rewarded for killing 'infidels'... but they do care about their parents, their children, and their siblings. Sometimes a homicide bomber's family will get a check. I think Hussein was doing that with palestinians... but we don't have to worry about him or his thug kids anymore.
So... would I be a bad person if I suggested that whenever a terrorist is killed or caught and identified that their whole family be killed? That may sound cold but it would save lives. If a person were considering making a terrorist attack and they knew that by their actions they would be sentencing their whole family to death... they might reconsider. I think terrorism would become a thing of the past.
Not only would it make you a "bad" person it would make you a terrorist for targeting innocent people!
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 11:11:57 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
Hangshuan,
No, terrorism happens for a myriad of reasons, with a myriad of motivating factors, and frequently the terrorists have, surprisingly enough, actual grievances that it may be in civilization's best interest to at least look at.
What are those grievances? For the most part, it's radical islam that is targeting the infidels. While there are some other fringe terrorists, they don't have the financial backing to spread their hatred. As for targeting Americans, what is it about us they don't like? Is it that we support Israel? Is it our financila system? is it that we produce and export our cultural garbage? Does it matter why they want to destroy us? As simplistic as it may sound, radical islam is about converting everyone to Allah or kill them. It's more than the presence of the US military in the middle east.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 11:34:22 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Hangshuan,
No, terrorism happens for a myriad of reasons, with a myriad of motivating factors, and frequently the terrorists have, surprisingly enough, actual grievances that it may be in civilization's best interest to at least look at.
What are those grievances? For the most part, it's radical islam that is targeting the infidels. While there are some other fringe terrorists, they don't have the financial backing to spread their hatred. As for targeting Americans, what is it about us they don't like? Is it that we support Israel? Is it our financila system? is it that we produce and export our cultural garbage? Does it matter why they want to destroy us? As simplistic as it may sound, radical islam is about converting everyone to Allah or kill them. It's more than the presence of the US military in the middle east.
American support of despots, American meddling in regional political affairs, American bombs killing civilians, American support of Israel, and yes, American military presence. I imagine American media doesn't help, either.
I don't doubt that radical Islam is incredibly destructive on its own. In fact, I thoroughly believe it. But I'm not naive enough to believe that American political missteps, media, bombs, and manipulation don't grease its wheels and breathe a great deal of extra life into it.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 12:44:15 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
...and it's their duty, as they die and they see their families die as collateral damage from American tactics, that it's not America's fault, it's the terrorists the Americans are shooting at. It's those guys' fault.
American tactics as a whole attempt to deter collateral damage while a terrorist prime target is generally "collateral damage"... US soldiers operate under rules of engagement that generally put them in harms way for the sake of lowering the probably of collateral damage while the other side makes a point disregarding life in across the board... Folks whose standard operating procedure is to kill "innocents" and hide in the general populace bear the brunt of responsibility for collateral damage.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 12:47:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I don't doubt that radical Islam is incredibly destructive on its own. In fact, I thoroughly believe it. But I'm not naive enough to believe that American political missteps, media, bombs, and manipulation don't grease its wheels and breathe a great deal of extra life into it.
Islam in any form is incredibly destructive on its own and while America has its own things to answer for, those who prey on folks like Bin Laden don't need reason for their evil...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 1:00:43 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Even if accidental, do you understand how collateral damage might come back to haunt us?
War is war. These things happen..esspecialy if our enemies hide in with the civilians. If civilians are killed, its the terrorists fault.
So let me get this straight. You would have us divert resources from fighting the bad guys in Afghanistan and Pakistan to go over to Saudi Arabia and murder Bin Laden's family- even if they have done nothing wrong?
I am still trying to understand how it is possible to justify said actions with "war is war".
quote:
Not only would it make you a "bad" person it would make you a terrorist for targeting innocent people!
Thank you for putting my views on this matter into a more succinct and eloquent form.
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 4:52:35 PM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
I am watching the news of terrorism in India right now. 80 dead hundreds wounded... (the death toll went up to 90 as I typed this), they are targeting westerners. Most of these people do not care about their life, they think they will be rewarded for killing 'infidels'... but they do care about their parents, their children, and their siblings. Sometimes a homicide bomber's family will get a check. I think Hussein was doing that with palestinians... but we don't have to worry about him or his thug kids anymore.
So... would I be a bad person if I suggested that whenever a terrorist is killed or caught and identified that their whole family be killed? That may sound cold but it would save lives. If a person were considering making a terrorist attack and they knew that by their actions they would be sentencing their whole family to death... they might reconsider. I think terrorism would become a thing of the past.
I realize that sounds harsh and it is harsh but this world is not fair and sometimes the innocent suffer.
What would Darius do? What would Andy Jackson do?
We have become soft and that is why terrorism is the problem that it is.
This is just my opinion and it may change tomorrow, feel free to disagree... and don't worry, i'm not likely to become king anytime soon.... but buddy, if I did...
J
I think Hitler and Stalin tried this. But, I do understand your frustration, and maybe confusion, trying to make heads or tails out of this whole terrorism thing. Maybe it was the confusion part that caused the U.S. to invade Iraq when the enemy was clearly in Afghanistan.
No, I think we did the RIGHT thing by invading Iraq. We deposed a complete scumbag and if you remember... try real hard... almost everyone agreed that Iraq had WMD and were in favor of the war. Iraq brought it on themselves by thumbing their nose at UN resolutions that we, as a UN member nation, were right in enforcing. IIRC... Hussein claimed to have WMD.
Then there is the fact that our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq divides the middle eastern islamic nations and it also succeeded in getting the islamic gihadists to come to Iraq and fight with out military... so that our soldiers could kill them. That is much better than waiting for them to come here and then responding to their attack.
Iraq was NOT a mistake. We should be thankful for what president Bush has done. He stayed the course against popular opinion and he has kept us safe. I wish he could run for a third term.
He has been a great president.
Julien
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 4:56:06 PM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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quote:
No, terrorism happens for a myriad of reasons, with a myriad of motivating factors, and frequently the terrorists have, surprisingly enough, actual grievances that it may be in civilization's best interest to at least look at.
Whatever...
terrorism removes all ground for addressing of greivances. Once terrorism is involved the only proper response is to kill those involved. No quarter should be given and none asked, for none will be given. It is simplistic to think otherwise.
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 5:08:06 PM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
I am watching the news of terrorism in India right now. 80 dead hundreds wounded... (the death toll went up to 90 as I typed this), they are targeting westerners. Most of these people do not care about their life, they think they will be rewarded for killing 'infidels'... but they do care about their parents, their children, and their siblings. Sometimes a homicide bomber's family will get a check. I think Hussein was doing that with palestinians... but we don't have to worry about him or his thug kids anymore.
So... would I be a bad person if I suggested that whenever a terrorist is killed or caught and identified that their whole family be killed? That may sound cold but it would save lives. If a person were considering making a terrorist attack and they knew that by their actions they would be sentencing their whole family to death... they might reconsider. I think terrorism would become a thing of the past.
Not only would it make you a "bad" person it would make you a terrorist for targeting innocent people!
Would God be a bad guy for telling Isreal to kill everyone, even the animals? What is this bleating I hear??
No, I am not comparing myself to God, but I am saying that doing what is necessary to eliminate an enemy is not, it itself, evil. Also note... I am not talking about the course of action to be taken by a person or by a religion... but by a government. You will of course notice that, for the most part, teh terrorist actions are carried out not by governments but by individual people and by a religion. Both sides kill and destroy but one is ordained by God and the other is rebellion against God for governmental authority is ordained by God. Governments may be fought and overthrown when they become oppressive but the action should never be against civilians but against government soldiers... however... government can take action against civilians and still be accountable only to God and as shown by His own word, He may authorize it.
In other words government has God given authority, terrorists are criminals, unless their actions are taken solely against the agent of the power they wish to fight against. They cannot attack civilians... governments can attack civilians. I don't think that they should as a general course of action... but neither do I think it should be always off the tabel. It should be the last course of action, not the first nor should it be standard operating procedure like it was with the Lincoln administration, (which is, IMO, the reason God took him as soon as the war was over).
J
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"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 5:49:38 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
Would God be a bad guy for telling Isreal to kill everyone, even the animals? What is this bleating I hear??
No, I am not comparing myself to God, but I am saying that doing what is necessary to eliminate an enemy is not, it itself, evil.
God is really the only one with the authority to take innocent life.
quote:
Also note... I am not talking about the course of action to be taken by a person or by a religion... but by a government. You will of course notice that, for the most part, teh terrorist actions are carried out not by governments but by individual people and by a religion. Both sides kill and destroy but one is ordained by God and the other is rebellion against God for governmental authority is ordained by God.
I am sorry, but what evidence do we have that we are ordained by God? Would God's people choose to commit murder? God's only people were the Israelites.
quote:
In other words government has God given authority, terrorists are criminals, unless their actions are taken solely against the agent of the power they wish to fight against. They cannot attack civilians... governments can attack civilians.
Governments can also send parts of their populations off to concentration camps and send others to the gas chambers. That doesn't make it right.
quote:
I don't think that they should as a general course of action... but neither do I think it should be always off the tabel.
You either believe in situational ethics or you believe in deontological ethics. There is no real middle ground, here. You are either hot or cold, you either accept God's law or reject it, and you either believe it is OK to commit murder, or you believe that murder is wrong under all circumstances.
If people deserve to die because they are not in our tribe- rather than because of anything they have done- then the ethics will simply be decided by whichever tribe kills the most people. Yes, killing innocent people may sometimes be expedient if you are interested in the socialist ideal of the Greater Good. However, Christians are called to do what is right- rather than what is easy or convenient.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 11/29/2008 6:02:04 PM >
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RE: Answer to terrorism.... - 11/29/2008 11:13:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
God is really the only one with the authority to take innocent life.
The only "innocent" life He ever took was His own...
quote:
I am sorry, but what evidence do we have that we are ordained by God?
The civil government was ordained by God for the sake of order... A government justly dealing with criminals and or terrorist is acting according to the expressed ordaine purpose of God... His minister of wrath for those who do evil, as stated in Romans 13...
quote:
Would God's people choose to commit murder?
Some have...
quote:
God's only people were the Israelites.
His sheep hear his voice...
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
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Governments can also send parts of their populations off to concentration camps and send others to the gas chambers. That doesn't make it right.
Yes, governments can and do abuse they ordained authority... That doesn't mean when that act accordingly they are wrong in doing so... For instance... The Romans murdered Christ... Yet both thieves received justly their due reward for their deeds... Actually for a government to not deal with terrorist and or criminals is a sinful act...
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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