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A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 3:13:36 PM
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joy2give2u
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I heard a story last night
A Story passed from generation to generation from father to son in the Jewish community.(embellishment mine)
The Story....
One day a father wished to teach his son a lesson on courage.
He went to his son, bent down on his knee, looked him in the eyes and asked him to climb to the first step of the stairs and jump.
The little boy was afraid for he had never jumped off of anything before
Obedient to his father he climbed the first step
fear mocking his trust he turned to see his fathers eyes
love reflected back
he jumped
His father caught him in a huge swing
the boy laughed and laughed
fear its first taste of defeat
Again the father asked the boy to jump
this time off the next step higher.
The boy looked at the step......it seemed so very high
The little boy was afraid for he had never jumped off anything so high before
Strengthened by his experience, remembrance of swinging through the air
his little legs climbed up to the next step
fear would be conquered
he jumped
A victory swing in the arms of the one who caught him
laughter and giggles filled the room
courage is not hard when you know you won't fall
fear defeated........
freedom found........
the boy climbed to the third step
He jumped
his father did not catch him
He fell
tears came
why papa why
picking his son up in his arms
wiping his tears
holding him tight
the father answered
For courage.
When I first heard the story I thought it a sad story to use to teach courage.......and what kind of father would not catch his child........how could a loving father let his son fall?
I did not believe the story spoke to our relationship with our heavenly Father.
Or did it?
Driving in this morning I began to wonder
Might there be more truth in the story then I had realized?
God is a loving God who promises to always be there at the foot of the steps.......who encourages us to take giant leaps of faith........and you know what??? .........sometimes he catches us and sometime he doesn't..........sometimes we fall flat on our faces.......asking why Lord.
Do we learn courage by his letting us fall?
A few days ago a gentleman told me he believes I have a huge wall up around myself, keeping men at a distance, or something similar..........I didn't hear his exact words because I was too busy, in my mind, telling him how so very wrong was he.
Today I wonder.........do I have the courage it takes to have a relationship, other then friendship, with a man?
Is courage really climbing up to the forth step and jumping even though I was not caught on step three?
Do I have this courage? Do you?
Is it possible we use our fallen relationships as an excuse to not jump again?
I wonder do we trust God enough that even if he lets us fall we can still jump again?
thoughts?
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 3:49:54 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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i think God does want us to come out of our comfort zone ... we don't know the outcome ... the result might not appear to be a success in our eyes but God knew the outcome and wanted us to do so ... out of that repeated obedience comes courage ...
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 4:01:30 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
Is courage really climbing up to the forth step and jumping even though I was not caught on step three?
Do I have this courage? Do you?
Yup I do. I have no choice. to get what I want out of life I MUST take that leap of faith.
quote:
Is it possible we use our fallen relationships as an excuse to not jump again?
far too many do.
quote:
I wonder do we trust God enough that even if he lets us fall we can still jump again?
Again, I have to. I have no one else to trust.
quote:
thoughts?
I try to avoid those things. They make my head hurt.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 4:33:37 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
out of that repeated obedience comes courage ... I think this is true............
I am thinking of the verse in the bible where it talks about our faith and how it is refined and strengthened through the hard times in our lives........
I am wondering if that might be the lesson of the little boy......
Maybe courage is not complete faith his father will catch him but being willing to jump anyway believing if he does fall not only will his father tend his wounds but the lesson taught will grow is faith.
quote:
Yup I do. I have no choice. to get what I want out of life I MUST take that leap of faith. Do you?
I remember when the girls were first learning to swim one of their favorite things to do was jump into the water.
Sky, who is much more cautious then her sister, loved jumping, probably more then K, but was limited by her fear drowning.
She would stand on the edge of the pool, bend as far as she could over the water until her arms were almost touching mine and then she would jump right into my outstretched arms........she was not leaving dry land until she was confident she was making a catchable jump.
K, on the other hand had no fear, as long as I was looking at her, no matter how far away she would jump. A few times I did not catch her before she went under........she would come up coughing with her little arms and legs flaying all over.........but she didn't care........the next time she got up she still jumped...........because she knew if I did not catch her before going under I would make sure she did not drown.
I think there are many who stand ready to jump into a relationship as soon as everything lines up exactly as they believe it should to minimize the risk.........
I can't help but wonder if courage looks more like K or S? Does courage mean opening yourself up to a relationship only when you are 90% or above positive the person is someone you could be married too?
Or is courage a willingness to jump into a relationship, which is more risky(higher step), while trusting if God even if falling is a possibility.
quote:
I try to avoid those things. They make my head hurt. Seems to be a common symptom of some who read my post.....I wonder why??
A wise man once explained to me why.......I wonder if his wisdom still applies.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 4:38:07 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
Does courage mean opening yourself up to a relationship only when you are 90% or above positive the person is someone you could be married too?
No that's wisdom. Why start something that you cannot see yourself ever finishing.
quote:
quote:
I try to avoid those things. They make my head hurt. Seems to be a common symptom of some who read my post.....I wonder why??
A wise man once explained to me why.......I wonder if his wisdom is applies.
A wise man or a wise guy?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 4:43:37 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
No that's wisdom. Why start something that you cannot see yourself ever finishing. So you would say Sky made the wiser choice when it came to jumping into the water.........interesting.........I see it different........I see sky's fear holding her back...........I might add as well Kens learned to swim much quicker then sky because she was willing to risk more.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/26/2008 5:01:49 PM
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shemaromans
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Disclaimer: still forming my thoughts...
As I read the story, Abraham almost sacrificing Isaac kept entering my head. Not really sure why, but it did...
Which has led me to consider faith. Faith in God.
We know God was testing Abraham's faith and ultimately provided the ram to spare Isaac.
Have our past experiences tested our faith in God?
Have we learned from our past experiences to put our trust God to direct our steps?
Do we listen to God like Abraham did?
I'm really not sure how this applies to the OP or where I'm going with these thoughts. Just thought I'd share them. 
Thanks for the brain snack, Joy!
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/28/2008 12:48:28 AM
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vikingfan
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I've been reading Jeremiah lately. One part of it that stands out to me in this passage (and the pastor preached on this last Sunday as well) of I believe Jeremiah 37 is that God told Jeremiah to go and proclaim his word to the king. Response? Jeremiah went to the king, proclaimed God's word, and was promptly thrown into prison and was there for a long time, probably years.
Jeremiah had to know what he was likely in for and yet he did it anyway. I think sometimes we believe that if we follow God's plan on something, everything will go smoothly, but that runs completely opposite to Scripture. Look at Jeremiah. Look at Joseph being sold into slavery, doing well in Potiphar's palace, refusing (quite rightly) to commit adultery, and then being thrown into prison there. Finally, Joseph thinks he's got his meal ticket out after the two dreams, but he is promptly forgotten for ANOTHER two years before God finally gets him out.
The point: God never promises that everything will go well if we jump, he only promises that he will be with us anyway. This is the principle we see illustrated in Job.
Ultimately, the key is listening to God's voice and going where God leads. Time spent in God's presence through prayer and supplication and fellowship is the only way to cultivate ears to hear the Lord...and then having the courage to jump, knowing only that God is with us.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/28/2008 8:54:45 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
The point: God never promises that everything will go well if we jump, he only promises that he will be with us anyway. This is the principle we see illustrated in Job. Great point vickingfan........and thank you for the reminders of Joseph and Jeremiah.....
I have been thinking about the story quite a bit this weekend..........
It really is about building courage and faith..........
Courage is climbing to the next step after not being caught and jumping.
I think so often after a fall, after we have been hurt, trusting or obeying God has not turned out as we expected we hesitate, wanting to make sure God has his arms outstretched, waiting to catch up before jumping.........
I think there is a really powerful lesson in the story, which when used to look at our lives , can lead to more courage and faith............
I look forward to hearing more thoughts, especially when it comes to relationships, and our views on the times God has allowed us to drop.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/28/2008 10:31:28 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
No that's wisdom. Why start something that you cannot see yourself ever finishing. So you would say Sky made the wiser choice when it came to jumping into the water.........interesting.........I see it different........I see sky's fear holding her back...........I might add as well Kens learned to swim much quicker then sky because she was willing to risk more.
I didn't realize that Sky was leaping into some guy's arms. I thought she was just swimming? We were talking of relationships here. The analogy doesn't hold. Leaping into a pool is fa,r far different from leaping into a relationship. If you don't like to swim you can always climb back out with little lost. If you get entangled in a relationship with someone who isn't a fit for you, then some one is likely to get hurt.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/29/2008 2:58:52 PM
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vikingfan
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Thanks Joy. I think it's also worth remembering that to quote Paul: "without faith, it is impossible to please God."
Jeremiah 29:11 says that God has good plans for us...but those plans may not necessarily be good in the way that we would like them. I can look back in my life and see different things that were not 'good' but helped me grow as well as others. Also, some suffering can help others become Christians and if that happens, then one can see God's purpose in it.
And even if no one listens (see Jeremiah again), that doesn't mean that God was wrong, just that we can't see it. We like to think that God's will will always mean a happy ending in this life (this is what Job's friends thought too), but Hebrews 11 makes it clear that this is not so.
If we depend on God in our relationships, God will bring us happiness and contentment, but it still may not result in a spouse. The key is to live in contentment anyway (see Daniel 3:16-18).
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/30/2008 1:58:36 AM
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OneJohn410
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Disclaimer- I've read so many questions in this thread I think I may be unable to respond altogether, though I'd like to.
Query to Joy- Are you just looking for answers to questions in your OP at the start? Additional questions that follow responders in replies to them are just for them?
I have not seen anyone answer the question in your subject line yet (that I recall) because of all the Q&A&follow-up Qs and comments and Qs.
Thanks for the thought-provoking questions at the start, just need some clarity. Nice post, FearNo.
_____________________________
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. -Romans 15:4 (NIV)
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RE: A love story? or not? - 11/30/2008 10:48:29 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
I didn't realize that Sky was leaping into some guy's arms. I thought she was just swimming? We were talking of relationships here. The analogy doesn't hold. We were talking about courage and faith.......in relationship to relationships.........from your answer I am guessing you don't remember jumping off the side of the pool before you learned to swim.........because if you did you would also remember how very scary it can be standing there staring at the water........the courage it takes to jump and the faith needed in the person catching you.........you may not see the similarity to relationships but I do........maybe this is because I have had relationships not only were I was not caught but drowned as well.
You're right. I don't see any similarity. Leaping into a relationship where someone is obviously not a fit is not the same as jumping into a pool of water. It may be similar to jumping off a highway overpass straight into teh line of traffic however.
quote:
hate to tell you this john o if you get entangled in a relationship with someone who is a fit for you someone is likely to get hurt......relationships engage the emotions and emotions get hurt......avoiding relationship for fear we will hurt or be hurt.........is comparable to not climbing to the fourth step or jumping in the pool again after experienced swallowing water, flaying arms and fear of drowning when you were not caught the last time......
If they are a fit then there won't be any hurt. There may be minor discomforts as the two of you adjust to each other but there won't be any major heartbreak. If there is major heartbreak, then obviously they weren't a fit
quote:
The little boys now knows what courage looks like.......it is not jumping when we are sure we will be caught.......it is jumping even if their is a risk we will be hurt.
quote:
This could be partially true. But don't confuse courage with foolhardiness
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 10:58:21 AM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
You're right. I don't see any similarity. Leaping into a relationship where someone is obviously not a fit is not the same as jumping into a pool of water. It may be similar to jumping off a highway overpass straight into teh line of traffic however. Often you do not know whether someone is a good fit or not until you begin to develop a relationship with them.........and since we all know you don't believe in friendship first exactly how would you recommend I get to know a gentleman better without exploring a relationship with him?
We are going out.......we either go out as friends or we go out as a way of beginning the exploration of a relationship...........either way it takes courage......
I have a choice.........and it deals with being vulnerable with my heart.
I can either go out with him, protecting my heart by seeing him as a possible friend, and risk nothing.......only being willing to open my heart to hurt if I am sure I will be caught.........
Or I can go out with him, my heart open to him, trusting that even if the relationship doesn't work out and I get hurt, God will be with me to hold me as I heal.
Bottom line...........in a relationship unless you are willing to be vulnerable, risk being hurt, from the beginning, the relationship will never move past the beginning stages...........and frankly I am tired of only jumping off the low steps and then only when I am fairly sure I will be caught..........I want to experience more.....I want to risk more........I want to have courage.
I think I am going to climb to the forth step and jump..........
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 11:24:25 AM
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StrongWisdom
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quote:
and frankly I am tired of only jumping off the low steps and then only when I am fairly sure I will be caught..........I want to experience more.....I want to risk more........I want to have courage.
I think I am going to climb to the forth step and jump..........
I think this makes life more exciting...and don't we as humans like taking risks? We climb mountains...jet ski...fly on an airplane...play the lottery (well not all of us)....quit a job that's not working...try new foods...go new places....finally tell someone we like them.....at some point in time, we know that our choices will not be completely safe, but we take the risk for the thrill and enjoyment. I say live life!!! The thrill sometimes outdoes the fear and anxiety....
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 11:38:54 AM
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joy2give2u
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Hey StrongWisdom welcome to the singles forum..........I have read your other post and look forward to getting to know you better........and yes life without risk would be a lot less exciting.
It amazes me how God's truths encompass our whole beings and not just part of who we are..........
When I read your post I thought of the verse where it tells us to have childlike faith...........
My mind then went to things I did as a child..........how I did not think twice before taking risk............the cost never factored in my decisions as a child.........
Why do I let the potential cost keep me from risking now?
childlike faith should include taking risk without counting the cost first.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 11:49:35 AM
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jesuschick247
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quote:
My mind then went to things I did as a child..........how I did not think twice before taking risk............the cost never factored in my decisions as a child.........
Why do I let the potential cost keep me from risking now?
childlike faith should include taking risk without counting the cost first.
I read this and was like-"Wow! Me too!" There is something at the moment that I REALLY, REALLY want and yet, I can't make myself take the risk and just fight for it. I guess, because if it goes south, I know there will be hurt and tears. I tend to over-analyze things, and yet, under-analyze things I should think more about!
I want to jump and be willing to take a chance, and I just haven't been able to muster the courage to...
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 11:58:52 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
You're right. I don't see any similarity. Leaping into a relationship where someone is obviously not a fit is not the same as jumping into a pool of water. It may be similar to jumping off a highway overpass straight into the line of traffic however.
Pasting in the original point for clarity's sake:
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
Does courage mean opening yourself up to a relationship only when you are 90% or above positive the person is someone you could be married too?
No that's wisdom. Why start something that you cannot see yourself ever finishing.
and now back to joy's comment:
quote:
Often you do not know whether someone is a good fit or not until you begin to develop a relationship with them.........and since we all know you don't believe in friendship first exactly how would you recommend I get to know a gentleman better without exploring a relationship with him?
It's very hard to determine if someone is a good fit. It's incredibly easy to determine that they aren't. for example, f someone is a democrat I know instantly that they are not a good fit for me. With way over 90% certainty. If they are not physically attractive to me I know that they are not a good fit. If they are not Christian I know they are not a good fit. There are many features/characteristics/behaviors etc that eliminate people from contention. If I can see these red flag areas at the start then why bother jumping in. If I don't see any red flags then they are assumed to be a good fit until I find out otherwise.
quote:
Bottom line...........in a relationship unless you are willing to be vulnerable, risk being hurt, from the beginning, the relationship will never move past the beginning stages
exactly correct.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 2:13:33 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
One thought about Abraham.........I wonder if Abraham believed God would spare Isaac or if he believed if he sacrificed Isaac God would give him another son to fulfill His promises.
i think the former due to verse 5:
He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you." (NIV)
or perhaps he was expecting him to be raised from the dead but he is quite prophetic in v8 by mentioning Hod providing the lamb ... but i'm not so sure he expected another son ...
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Photoblogging My Life
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 4:01:10 PM
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joy2give2u
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Interesting Ed...........so Abraham expected to be caught...........
LOL I just had a funny imagine............ABraham.....jumping as soon as God promised him a son........and him flailing through the air.......falling and falling through Ishmael and the long, long years of waiting...........until finally he was caught..............
Makes me wonder...........is it possible those times we felt we were not caught..........if maybe it wasn't that we were caught but that we are still falling..........hmmmmmmm lots to think about now.
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
Lake Michigan
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/1/2008 4:04:37 PM
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jesuschick247
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quote:
Makes me wonder...........is it possible those times we felt we were not caught..........if maybe it wasn't that we were caught but that we are still falling..........hmmmmmmm lots to think about now.
I think sometimes, it's more like if feels like God isn't catching us because the outcome is not what we wanted it to be...God always answers-yes, not right now, or I HAVE SOMETHING BETTER! His ways aren't ours and I am still learning that one...most of the time the hard way! LOL!
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/2/2008 2:10:57 AM
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StrongWisdom
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quote:
He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you." (NIV)
I agree with Iwillfearnoevil
This verse is very prophetic...why did he say "we will" come back? I think Abraham knew or felt in his spirit that they both would return. Makes you wonder if he was ever fearful...having no worry in his relationship with God. Should we apply the same approach to our relationships with God and with others? If we consider them a "worship experience"...in other words, honoring the God in them? And not worrying?
I think most of the hurt we can get in a relationship is not on the end of being afflicted ourselves...but its letting the other person go. We ultimately fear "the break up," and that can be interpreted as "not being caught" But we have to have courage and faith that things will ultimately workout for the best (no matter if he or she is not the one or doesn't fit).
I don't think Abraham feared the breakup with his son, but he went into the experience with courage and faith. And, if he hadn't of done so, he would of missed out on the provided blessing. We also can do the same. Why should we be fearful in taking the jump if we know that God is on our side? We should be courageous, knowing that something good is still going to come out of it all...
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RE: A love story? or not? - 12/2/2008 2:19:59 AM
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vikingfan
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We let fear paralyze us too often. Consider evangelism. Scripture makes it clear repeatedly that we are supposed to evangelize. And yet what do too many of us do? We live by the fear of man (or woman). And sometimes, even if it's just us and the other person, we live in fear that if we really shared our faith, something would go wrong. Ah, how right Jesus was when he said, "The harvest is great, but the workers are few. Where then are the workers for the harvest?"
Evangelism is not the only place this happens. I believe part of the problem is that 'guarding one's heart' has been taken to too great an extreme in today's Christian society. Yes, we are not called to throw pearls before the swine. But if we live in a state of fear, where we refuse to love, to let ourselves become even a little bit vulnerable, we have already lost. What we really desire...friendships, dating, etc, will never come to pass. We will become like the sluggard who warns that there is a lion in the street...and as a res | | |
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