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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:18:50 PM
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virgofrom1966
Posts: 16
Joined: 11/24/2008
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Maybe I need to go a bit further in my explanation. This person, after giving the cut-off speech, tried to come back for more. It was the one you all are referring to as the non-believer who finally said, hey, I am not going to be on this emotional roller coaster anymore. I understand that you are struggling with your spiratuality here, but you can't have it both ways. And you can't drag me through your struggle. No one is trying to make anything difficult for anyone here. Personally, the person who thinks they are converting is making it harder for themselves. And as far as the un-believer, they are not necessarily an un-believer, but just did not end up in the same place as the other person at the same time. And believe it or not, in three years, there were no conversations about spirituality, but there were invites to church. Again, I ask you to consider what makes a christian look like a christian to a nonchristian? Is it waking up in their beds on Sunday morning and then going to church? How is anyone supposed to take that seriously? Believe me, I understand not having the guts to say what is really on your mind, but after 3 years, come on? This is not about the sex, it's about a bond between two people.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:28:56 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
This is not about the sex, it's about a bond between two people.
Well then you've changed your tune because in your OP you said it was about the sex...go back and read it.
I don't know why she went back to you after she made the decision to break it off...maybe she felt pressured or maybe she just felt bad for you. Old habits are hard to break and Christians aren't perfect...they slip up and sin.
We could all be on the wrong track here and your girlfriend could have just wanted to break up with you and used this as an excuse. Maybe you could get her to post here and explain her side.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:41:42 PM
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virgofrom1966
Posts: 16
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Any maybe, just maybe, people like KAT_D are insensitive, rude and down right overly righteous acting toward other people. Maybe that is why this person had such a hard time coming clean with what they are really doing. Because they had no reason to judge the other person when they themselves needed to be judged.
I seriously doubt that this person wants to be free from the other, since they are still trying to keep them around. It is me who is questioning how can I try to get on the band wagon with the acts of betrayal happening here? How is someone supposed to get into God with someone else who claims to be a christian, but their acts look much different. I am not a relative of Satan who can't possibly comprehend any of this. Is anyone here smart enough to get the point? I have someone who is trying to convert to God and take me with them, but their example is not what I understand a Godly example to be?
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:51:32 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2071
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
And believe it or not, in three years, there were no conversations about spirituality, but there were invites to church. Again, I ask you to consider what makes a christian look like a christian to a nonchristian? Is it waking up in their beds on Sunday morning and then going to church? How is anyone supposed to take that seriously? Believe me, I understand not having the guts to say what is really on your mind, but after 3 years, come on? This is not about the sex, it's about a bond between two people.
Believe me I do understand this. She's struggling. She wants to do what she knows is right but she loves you, is caught in sin that makes her feel good (physically and emotionally), and she has no clue how to talk to you about what she really thinks or feels because she's scared to death. She's stuck.
So if you're just not in the same place she is where do you think you are (spiritually)? The way it looks to me, your only options would be to help her get a handle on this (go with her, learn with her, support her, and actually be the strong one for her) or remove yourself from the equation for both your sakes unless and until she gets stronger and more grounded in her own faith. If she's the one going back and forth and waivering in her resolve, it's truly not fair to you, I agree. If you love her, and want to remain sane yourself, remove the temptation (you) from her. If you're strong enough to do that and keep a relationship with her that's great but that would be remarkable.
I hope all this is helping. Sounds like a confusing mess you're in.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:53:25 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
Any maybe, just maybe, people like KAT_D are insensitive, rude and down right overly righteous acting toward other people.
Why, because I questioned your contradiction of what you originally said this was all about? Or because I offered another possibility? Where exactly was I rude and overly righteous? As to the me being insensitive, I have acknowledged your pain several times...I might counter that, because you are hurting, you could possibly be overly sensitive, KWIM?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:59:43 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2071
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
Any maybe, just maybe, people like KAT_D are insensitive, rude and down right overly righteous acting toward other people. Maybe that is why this person had such a hard time coming clean with what they are really doing. Because they had no reason to judge the other person when they themselves needed to be judged.
I seriously doubt that this person wants to be free from the other, since they are still trying to keep them around. It is me who is questioning how can I try to get on the band wagon with the acts of betrayal happening here? How is someone supposed to get into God with someone else who claims to be a christian, but their acts look much different. I am not a relative of Satan who can't possibly comprehend any of this. Is anyone here smart enough to get the point? I have someone who is trying to convert to God and take me with them, but their example is not what I understand a Godly example to be?
If you knew Kat from other posts here, you'd know that's not true. And without even knowing your girlfriend (?) I'm sure she's not trying to be a hypocritical betrayer. No one's thinking you're a "relative of Satan either", LOL - I assure you. We're slowly piece by piece getting the picture here, don't let this rub you the wrong way. Honestly, though, if you're waiting for a perfect Christian to draw you to God, it's not going to happen because there aren't any. No one is ever going to be a perfect example for you. If anything, it should be reassuring that God accepts us (your gf, all of us here, you yourself) as imperfect as we are. You can't use her failings to negate Christianity or what God's trying to put on your heart.
Now, if her inability to be open and discuss serious matters with you (a sign of immaturity having nothing to do with God) and to treat you fairly and not toy with your emotions is what's really bothering you, that's certainly cause to examine any relationship. Even if you were to get on the same page spiritually, that would be something to address going forward.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:06:33 PM
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virgofrom1966
Posts: 16
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FINALLY! Someone who gets this. It is my thought that it you are struggling with your own spirituality, then you should not be bringing into question that of someone else! Before you turn things upside down, you need to get it right. Believe me, I am definately the strong one because I have stopped the persistent attempt to use me and keep me on an emotional roller coaster. I really don't believe that I am the temptation here, as I am not and have not been trying to keep the sexual relationship going, in fact, trying to make sure it is stopped. As soon as I was told that this person wanted to pursue their relationship with God and not have sex, I was not trying to persuade them to have sex. I have been the one trying to keep my own sanity here during their struggles with right and wrong. I do love the person. What I do not love is the roller coaster. I don't know if me trying harder to get where they are trying to go will help or not?
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:15:21 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2071
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
I don't know if me trying harder to get where they are trying to go will help or not?
Do you think the relationship is something still worth persuing? If so you're going to have to try to get on the same page. Agreeing to disagree is no way to live or love - it simply doesn't work. If you're not willing to try to walk that road with her and/or she's not willing to have you along, then you're really on two different roads going nowhere.
You don't have to be coming on to her to be tempting, though. There is a strong bond an she loves you. This is hard all the way around. You can't go on or go forward this way, though.
Do you still want to stay in this and try? Do you think she's willing (and mature) enough to do so as well? I'm not saying this is hopeless but you're definitely at a crossroads. Nobody likes a broken heart...but it happens and if that's where this is headed it's way better than five years down the road with a legal bond, mortgage, other debts, and even children in the mix!
So I do "get it". Just throw me a bone, though and tell me one of you is a girl and the other is not. I could take your persistent gender-neutrality to mean one of two things - either you're afraid you will get jumped on being an insensitive guy (concerned only with sex) or we should be having an entirely different conversation altogether.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:21:05 PM
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virgofrom1966
Posts: 16
Joined: 11/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
It was all of a sudden, one day, hey, we are no longer having sex and you can't do anything about it. That is the part that feels like betrayal.
So, what would you have considered an acceptable amount of time for her to continue to have sex with you after her conversion?... for another week, month, or year before she said no more? What you don't seem to understand ( nor can you be expected to understand because you are not a believer) is that she was under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and that is not something one can play around with.
I understand that you are hurt, but you just can't change her decision. For her to prolong her sin to keep you happy would have been unacceptable to God. Something she is no longer willing to do. You just need to accept and respect it...you don't have to like it.
quote:
I understand that you are hurt, but you just can't change her decision. For her to prolong her sin to keep you happy would have been unacceptable to God. Something she is no longer willing to do. You just need to accept and respect it...you don't have to like it.
If this is what you call acknowledging someone's pain, you better keep reading. You come across as insensitive as it gets. Like it or not this is how it is. Well, this my friend is why "christians" have such a hard time convincing others that there is anything there to believe in. The whole more righteous than you are approach to people who don't claim to be christians, but are definately struggling with it. Even some of us who don't really claim to be a christian know that is not how a christian is supposed to treat others. You really should go back and look at your posts because sensitive to my feelings was not very apparent.
[Edited by moderator - TOS 5]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 11/25/2008 1:36:40 PM >
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:23:36 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2071
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
If this is what you call acknowledging someone's pain, you better keep reading. You come across as insensitive as it gets. Like it or not this is how it is. Well, this my friend is why "christians" have such a hard time convincing others that there is anything there to believe in. The whole more righteous than you are approach to people who don't claim to be christians, but are definately struggling with it. Even some of us who don't really claim to be a christian know that is not how a christian is supposed to treat others. You really should go back and look at your posts because sensitive to my feelings was not very apparent.
Keep in mind intent or tone is really hard to read in anonymous written posts on an internet board...you really have to read a LOT more from someone to make those kinds of judgements. BUT, again, I'll caution you not to let that be an excuse - you're not going to find a perfect Christian so if you make that your reason for staying away from God it's going to work for you every time but it's pretty disingenuous.
{Edited by moderator - fixing TOS 5 in quoted material}
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 11/25/2008 1:37:09 PM >
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:26:05 PM
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virgofrom1966
Posts: 16
Joined: 11/24/2008
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You are the only one who seems to really get it here and I thank you for your advice. And for the record, I am the female and it is my male partner who started this struggle. Also for the record, I do love him, but I am having a hard time getting past what feels like betrayal. And thanks for being sensitive. Three years with someone is a long time only to end on the struggles of one that had nothing to do with the other.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:29:50 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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From: a mother who let me live
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Our spirituality is very individual, Virgo. There is a spirituality that is created in partnerships, but it is secondary. As a believer, your partner understood this -- that he will stand before G-d alone, as will we all. He made the moves necessary to get his personal spirituality together. I can imagine he still loves you, but is very torn.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:38:18 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2071
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
You are the only one who seems to really get it here and I thank you for your advice. And for the record, I am the female and it is my male partner who started this struggle. Also for the record, I do love him, but I am having a hard time getting past what feels like betrayal. And thanks for being sensitive. Three years with someone is a long time only to end on the struggles of one that had nothing to do with the other.
Woo hoo! (What a relief - that would've been a conversation changer here on CW, I'm afraid)
But, bummer - my dh was right! (I assumed you were a guy).
Regardless, I understand all too well. Dh and I were in a very similar relationship. Being your bf that's struggling, please keep in mind he's dealing with the physical temptation/urges on a whole different level than you or I can comprehend. I don't want to go too far there to get us shut down and sent to another board (mods will only let us go so far here). But I know that sometimes sounds like an excuse but, after twelve years of marriage, I've learned there's more to the God-given physical needs of men than I ever wanted to admit. That's going to be exponentially harder than when it was me (the girl) in his shoes. It's just a fact.
Struggles in relationships are never just struggles of one with nothing to do with the other. Obviously you're struggling too with all this. You're grappling with a lot of hurt and different pieces of this as well.
Don't take his actions as betrayal. He's confused and knows what he needs to do but doesn't want to lose you either. If you're not ready to end it and cut you're losses, you're going to have to make some concessions and help him work through this. That's part of being in a relationship - sometimes someone has to bite the bullet, sometimes someone has to humble themselves even when they're the one who's been wronged. Could you agree to go to church with him and NOT under any circumstances continue or revisit the physical relationship? That's really the only way to move forward and see if there may still be a future. Even if he tried to backtrack and return to the way things were, I guarantee this would be an issue again down the road - deal with it here and now while it's on the table and, like I said, there aren't a lot of other complications (like a marriage at stake).
If you set those parameters either you're going to see God move in your life (my prayer) and you guys will find yourselves on a whole new, exciting path together...or you'll go along and be supportive for a while and realize you can't go there with him and you'll part on more peaceful responsible terms (only to see God lead him to other things and move in your life later down the road - still my prayer). But the parameters would have to include hard and fast rules about physical contact - whatever is going to be a safe, smart boundary for the two of you - and might even mean no home "dates" - only in public, KWIM?
What do you really want to do next is the question.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:38:56 PM
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laura...
Posts: 2925
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
FINALLY! Someone who gets this. It is my thought that it you are struggling with your own spirituality, then you should not be bringing into question that of someone else! Before you turn things upside down, you need to get it right. Believe me, I am definately the strong one because I have stopped the persistent attempt to use me and keep me on an emotional roller coaster. I really don't believe that I am the temptation here, as I am not and have not been trying to keep the sexual relationship going, in fact, trying to make sure it is stopped. As soon as I was told that this person wanted to pursue their relationship with God and not have sex, I was not trying to persuade them to have sex. I have been the one trying to keep my own sanity here during their struggles with right and wrong. I do love the person. What I do not love is the roller coaster. I don't know if me trying harder to get where they are trying to go will help or not?
Honestly, it will not help for you to try to get where they are going. In fact, stop focusing on their spiritual struggle/journey altogether. Start focusing on your own spiritual journey. Start focusing on what Jesus might actually be trying to do in your life. This whole situation might be the Holy Spirit calling to you. While your partner is struggling about their relationship with you and God, Jesus has no such struggle. He longs to have a relationship with you. He is waiting for you.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 1:50:41 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1946
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
I seriously doubt that this person wants to be free from the other, since they are still trying to keep them around. It is me who is questioning how can I try to get on the band wagon with the acts of betrayal happening here? How is someone supposed to get into God with someone else who claims to be a christian, but their acts look much different. I am not a relative of Satan who can't possibly comprehend any of this. Is anyone here smart enough to get the point? I have someone who is trying to convert to God and take me with them, but their example is not what I understand a Godly example to be?
OK, this is a good question, Virgo, and I'm glad you filled us in a little more, too. I'm going to keep refering to you as a guy as you haven't denied it, but please understand it's just a convenience thing so I don't have to repeat everything twice (him/her sort of thing). Let us know if you'd like us to do it differently.
You are absolutely spot on with how would a person want God when people are acting like gutted fish in their spiritual growth. It actually does point the way to God, because people are sinners with lots of experience in living sinfully (we're all good at something  ) and we're born missing the connection with God and automatically do the selfish/"Buzz off God!" thing. The point is not the gutted fish who is blowing it but the God that is slowly hauling them in in His net of love and forgiveness inspite of their failures. If salvation came from brains, none of us would go to heaven and God would have kicked us all the the celestial curb.
So your gf is a Christian who isn't converting (that's a point event, not a process, and with her it's already happened) but is sinning willfully. She knows it was wrong to be in your bed, but she wanted it more than she wanted God.
(Aside: God isn't a killjoy who made people to be sexual beings but wants to "starve" them all - He made people to mature in being givers instead of takers and then puts them in a marriage and says "don't stop having sex." It's a great plan).
Now God is working on her conscience which has been pretty dull the last 3 years - she knows sex before marriage is sin. The amazing thing here is she is blowing it big time and God is wooing her back to Himself. She's a gutted fish and God still loves her - be amazed. She's not amazing, God is. You are watching the phoenix rising from the ashes. If she turns back to God, says, "Yeah, it was sin, and I'm not going to do that anymore. Thanks, God, for forgiving me. I'll walk with You now" then you've just witnessed a miracle. It's not natural to turn away from the pleasure in front of you to a God you can't even see and who says to be celibate until married. No fun at all... until you start to see the hint/shadow that slowly becomes the solid substance of logic and goodness (but no body). And that substance is the fulfillment of everything about you because you were created to be in relationship with God and be filled with Him.
I just read Romans 3:3 yesterday and it fits here perfectly I think:
For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
Even if everyone blows it, God is still God and just as worthy of love and respect as ever. Our blowing doesn't mean there's something wrong with Him. In fact, it proves Him as loving and forgiving because He'll take us back, clean us up, put clean clothes on us and put us at the place of honor at His table (remember the story of the Prodigal Son?).
You're hinting that you have some spiritual standing; how do you stand in God's eyes? There are unbelievers, believers who are surrendering to God and trying to walk with Him, and believers who are surrendering to their selfish desires and have a wedge in their relationship with God. That's not an issue of being smart, it's an issue of where God drew the lines.
And just for the record, there are those of us who really put our all in our daily lives in regards to obeying God. There's chastity, honesty, promise-keeping (even if it hurts us), looking out for others' interests, and so on. None of us is perfect, but some of us wouldn't be caught dead in someone's bed if that someone wasn't our mate. We see the sin starting up small and squash it before it gets big. Usually. So you have a sample size of one there (which isn't statistically significant) and they are 100% blowing it... and maybe turning around but is still flopping on the beach.
So I don't blame you for being frustrated. You want the comfort of a familar relationship and it's been disrupted. You want to rightness of a person who acts in accordance to what they say they believe. You might get the second one; I hope so, for her sake. It's hard to live straddling a fence.
From the words and ideas you've used, I think you haven't spent a lot of time reading a Bible. May I respectfully recommend you get one that's understandable - the New International Version is good - and start reading the New Testament. Matthew is the first book - the New explains the Old Testament so it's better to start there. The Bible is spiritually discerned, so if you are a believer you'll get far more out of it.
Please let us know how things go; I'd be happy to hear if they were going well for you. God bless you two.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 2:52:42 PM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 426
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
I'm going to keep refering to you as a guy as you haven't denied it,
Post 36 Virgo has told us she is the female in this situation.
_____________________________
Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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