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Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 2:06:08 PM
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virgofrom1966
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New question, I would like opinions on someone who claims to be a christian their whole life, but got involved in a relationship with a non-christian, had unmarried sex for 3 years, then decided to become a "real christian" and cut off their partner from sex after over 3 years. Now they expect their non-christian partner to just be Okay with their decision and jump on the bandwagon. Ready, set, go . . .
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 2:32:23 PM
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Kat_D
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Are you the cut-offee or the cut-offer?
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 2:38:32 PM
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virgofrom1966
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I am the EE. And this is a serious question, so don't reply unless
you have a serious answer.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 2:41:54 PM
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pbaribeault
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I'd say that it's wonderful to see the Spirit really move in a lukewarm person, to convict them of sin and to provide them with the strength to live out their true righteousness.
I'd say the cut-off-ee might as well cut their losses... because anybody convicted enough to stop a longstanding pattern of fornication, is probably also going to be convicted enough to never marry an unbeliever. As for being "Okay" with being cut off, let me ask, what kind of person wants to have intercourse with someone who genuinely does not want to?
Unless, of course, the cut-off-ee would rather "jump on the bandwagon" and find true life and a home for their soul in the God that calls all people to faith -- which will lead them to live a life of purity too, and quite possibly a very fulfilling lifelong covenant of true love and commitment the person they already love.
Me, I've never been able to figure out what the down side might be of being a happily married "real Christian".
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 3:20:10 PM
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DeeAnnBailey
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As much as a person can love God, the Bible tells us they can lose that first love and when this happens often christians allow themselves to become pulled into the other forces around them, including sex outside of marriage. But deep in their heart they know they are not doing what they should.
The Bible tells them not to be joined together with an unbeliever, this very question shows one of the reasons why. An unbeliever cannot understand the drawing the believer has to follow God and do what is right, even if it means they can't satisfy their partner any longer. A believer, if they were not in fellowship with God might not like the situation, but they could understand it and in their heart they would know the other party had made the right decision.
Your partner didn't choose to leave you, they choose to follow God and while that may not seem like any comfort it means their feelings are as tied up and hurting as yours. But they know what they must do.
I pray that God will show you what is needed and that He will give your partner strength, comfort, compassion and understanding during this time.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 3:49:32 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
New question, I would like opinions on someone who claims to be a christian their whole life, but got involved in a relationship with a non-christian, had unmarried sex for 3 years, then decided to become a "real christian" and cut off their partner from sex after over 3 years. Now they expect their non-christian partner to just be Okay with their decision and jump on the bandwagon. Ready, set, go . . .
Thanks for starting the thread, Virgo. 
OK, so there's a Christian who gets involved with a nonChristian. First point:
2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
The Bible says how can two walk together unless they are agreed? So here is the first problem (and this isn't judging, it's fruit inspecting. Smell the rotten fruit?): unwillingness of a Christian to be separate in relationships with a nonChristian. God said "don't" but they are anyway. "Buzz off, God - I'm doing it my way."
Aside insider information: the Bible also tells us that people can shipwreck their faith because of a bad conscience (1 Timothy 1:19). There's a little sin and they cuddle it instead of confessing it as sin and turning away from it. Then a bigger sin results and it keeps growing bigger until everyone can see it. So having a relationship with an unbeliever and yoking themselves just a little led to more problems.
Next, they are having sex. That's called fornication, and God not only forbids it but says it's a lifestyle of those who don't inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5: 19-21). This Christian is really blowing it. There's a lot of time to say, "Oh, I'm blowing it! God, I'm sorry, I won't do it anymore" and move on. But they don't for three years.
So, finally, the Christian comes to their senses, recognizes they are blowing it big time, and does the right thing: Confess (I sinned), repents (I will stop sinning) and gets on with a better life.
Here's two ways where it hurts you:
1) You were getting sex and now you aren't and you don't like not getting sex. I'm guessing you're a guy. Generally in this kind of relationship the girl says "I love him" and the guy says "I love it."
2) the relationship is changed and you were emotionally and physically bonded and it's tearing you up.
The best way to explain this is this: God created a universe that runs on moral rails. Sex belongs in marriage only. Jump the rails and have a trainwreck. Sex outside of marriage is moral suicide (ask the older guys who've been chasing skirts for 30 years and if they're honest they'll tell you it's not been a good life, and they're all used up and empty).
Here's the good news: there is a way to have a great sex life for the next 50 years! Turn to the God who created sex in the first place (He said it was very good - see Genesis 1:27,28. God is no prude) and created you to be His beloved son in right relationship with Him. That comes about because sin demands death to pay for it, and God became a man (Jesus) and died in your place so you could live forever in His place. He rose from the dead to prove that death no longer had any power and sin was forgiven forever. That's why your girlfriend (I'm still assuming you're a guy; tell me if I'm wrong) could go back to God, get forgiven for messing up for three years, and get back in good with God. You can, too.
Here's the catch: you have to turn away from sin. Sin is an archery term that means you miss the bull's eye. God is perfect and calls us to be perfect. Scary, isn't it? But there's a way - He will give you the power to do it. You can fall on your face (like she did), confess it (say you sinned), repent it (turn away and stop doing it) and thank God it is forever behind you. God says He remembers it no more. Cool!
"their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
Hebrews 8:12 (so you can look it up yourself and see I'm not making this up)
And you can marry her and live with her for the rest of your life. God tells married people to not STOP having sex (1 Corinthians 7:5).
Don't do it for the sex, because marriage is difficult, but do it to get your life back on the tracks and have a good forever after. It doesn't mean you won't have problems because everybody has problems, but you'll have God to help you out.
God is real and has been changing lives for thousands of years. He can change yours. He made you and knows what you need. He will fulfill you as a person and as a man, and there isn't anything mickey mouse about it. God created the universe and will end it someday. He gets the last word. People will be divided into those who believed Him and got blessed and those who didn't believe and got cursed. I'm not trying to scare you but just tell you what He said. There is love and forgiveness and a full life ahead. Grab it.
God bless you (and I really mean that).
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 6:53:37 PM
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csl7037
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Great advice, very thorough, from deermousie. But my dh just had a very insightful observation...the post doesn't take issue with the girlfriend (assuming) trying to drag you to church or not drinking or that she wants to tithe her money or something else Christ-related - the complaint is the sex cut-off. That tells me something.
Since we're talking about a three year relationship, I would hope you would at least read and re-read and seriously consider deermousie's post. If you love her, you don't want her living in spiritual turmoil (so you can have your fun). The question becomes, can you handle this? Then, are you willing to get on board? I would challenge you to read "The Case for Christ" and then make your decision - your options are really just join her or leave her. Kudos to her for having the strength to make the stand and get right with her God...if you care anything about her at all don't make that harder for her.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 8:28:17 PM
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levimichal
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In God's eyes these two were already married. When one has joined their body to another they are joined. They are one.
That is why it is a sin when you misuse such a precious gift, as sexual intimacy. If you are sleeping without the benefit of marriage you run this risk you did and you lost.
_____________________________
Levita Michal Ayala Goeloe
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 8:34:31 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Levi's answer is interesting, but I have never studied the subject, so I don't know that I would agree. I should look into it.
But regarding the question, I have seen it happen many times. For myself, although we did not have intercourse previous to marriage, I came to a time when I knew that there were few steps before that would be a major temptation, so I told my then-fiance that we would back off, going back to light-peck kissing and holding hands only -- no excuses, no other way, period. We did it, and I could hardly believe how G-d blessed us for that. There is no way I would try to condemn the partner who made this decision.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 9:29:47 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
New question, I would like opinions on someone who claims to be a christian their whole life, but got involved in a relationship with a non-christian, had unmarried sex for 3 years, then decided to become a "real christian" and cut off their partner from sex after over 3 years. Now they expect their non-christian partner to just be Okay with their decision and jump on the bandwagon. Ready, set, go . . .
My opinion is that the person finally began listening to the Holy Spirit and is repenting of her sins. The partner's being okay with it is irrelevant.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 10:15:00 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: levimichal
In God's eyes these two were already married. When one has joined their body to another they are joined. They are one.
Yes it would also be wise of the Christian to pray and ask God to break any spiritual ties this has caused, so they can be free from any bondage.
Sorry you are feeling rejected, but it really isn't about you.
It is about the pesonal relationship with God
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 10:34:35 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
If you love her, you don't want her living in spiritual turmoil (so you can have your fun).
We'd like to assume the best, but actually, he might not give a flying rip.
Virgo, the biggest evidence that we all are sinners is our selfishness.
I am a sinner, too; the only difference is that I'm forgiven and God is slowly growing me away from being selfish and to truly loving others, even at my own cost (that's what Jesus did, too). I can still slip and have to confess and repent it, but God doesn't get tired of forgiving me. It all got paid for on the cross 2000 years ago.
Before I got saved (got my act together with God and had my sin forgiven) I wouldn't have cared a whit about your problems.
Side note: if sex outside of marriage made us married, there'd be no such thing as fornication. And adulterers would be polygamists, not adulterers. Paul talked about becoming one flesh with a harlot but didn't call them married. Except Hosea and Gomer, but that was another story: they were married, and she was a fornicator, an adulteress and a prostitute.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 10:52:32 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
Side note: if sex outside of marriage made us married, there'd be no such thing as fornication. And adulterers would be polygamists, not adulterers. Paul talked about becoming one flesh with a harlot but didn't call them married.
Exactly.
And, for the record, we do not allow defining marrage as having sex, we define marrage as following the legal and oral requirements for such.
This is not an arguable point in this community.
Do not reply to this message within the Community, or send me pms or emails about it.
If you have a question or concern, contact community@salemwebnetwork.com
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 11:12:00 PM
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levimichal
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Joined but not one flesh, I guess I must have been thinking how when a man leaves his father and mother and cleave onto the wife that they become one flesh I guess that is what I was thinking.
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Levita Michal Ayala Goeloe
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/24/2008 11:23:44 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: levimichal
In God's eyes these two were already married. When one has joined their body to another they are joined. They are one.
Yes it would also be wise of the Christian to pray and ask God to break any spiritual ties this has caused, so they can be free from any bondage.
Sorry you are feeling rejected, but it really isn't about you.
It is about the pesonal relationship with God
I believe in the O.T. that having a sexual relationship was considered a marriage. ie: When Jacob *knew* Leah before Rachel.
This is because having the *knowing part* created a spiritual bond. (I know we are not under the laws of the O.T.) but this is why it was reiternated in the N.T. by Paul as he warned of fornication, because it creates spiritual ties between the two people.
In which the person should pray that God breaks those ties.
Feel free to correct me
thanx
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 2:07:38 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: levimichal
In God's eyes these two were already married. When one has joined their body to another they are joined. They are one.
Yes it would also be wise of the Christian to pray and ask God to break any spiritual ties this has caused, so they can be free from any bondage.
Sorry you are feeling rejected, but it really isn't about you.
It is about the pesonal relationship with God
I believe in the O.T. that having a sexual relationship was considered a marriage. ie: When Jacob *knew* Leah before Rachel.
This is because having the *knowing part* created a spiritual bond. (I know we are not under the "laws of the O.T.) but this is why it was reiternated in the N.T. by Paul as he warned of fornication, because it creates spiritual ties between the two people.
In which the person should pray that God breaks those ties.
Feel free to correct me
thanx
You are describing what is erroneously referred to as a soul tie. This is something the Deliverance Movement fabricated along with generational sin. It is a false teaching...there is nothing in the Bible to back it up. It also directly contradicts this New Testament verse:
17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." -II Corinthians 5
When the OP's girlfriend repented and rededicated her life to Jesus Christ, she was set free from all past sins because...
"...if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." -John 8:36
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 8:26:42 AM
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csl7037
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We're into some theological stuff now that is only going to confuse or frustrate the OP, is not helpful for this conversation, and is going to get us in trouble with the mods.
I told dh last night that I felt a bit hypocritical last night posting to this thread. We were very much in a similar position about 13 years ago. I hate to hold us up as the "exception to the rule" but we got married and moved to a new town right away, he got saved and baptized, and we both pretty much started over spiritually. The college town we lived in had been like a spiritual black hole, I never invited him to church because I never had a decent one. We moved here and found a fabulous church with wonderful godly men who befriended him and mentored him and God was very good to us. It hasn't been "happily ever after" but it's been a beautful, very blessed life.
Virgo, your gf is not me. She's in a very different place. Of course I felt convicted and I struggled with the situation but I was weak and confused and running from God. And I'm sure I can't read too much into you assuming you're like my dh. For example, I know he'd have had a lot more questions if he ever posted something like this...maybe after 6 months or a year he'd have been concerned about being "cut off" but after three years we were at a place where he would've questioned the theology of what I was saying, tithing, communion (he was raised Catholic), etc. That was his first thought last night when I showed him this post - "well, if that's his biggest concern, she better move on" - but I'm hoping to see you back with further questions...even if they're just sparked by deermousie above. There's a lot more going on here than sex ending...I know God longs to make Himself real to you as well!
Bottom line is I was not a strong as your gf. You can't compete against the Holy Spirit and woe to you if you try! Do not dare try to talk her out of this, tempt her away, or pout or be ugly about this. If you're not willing to look into things like I suggested above, walk away. Better yet, do walk away, look into things, and then if you truly want to get on board with her there may be a future...a wonderful future! If you're not ready to do that, there's still a wonderful plan God has for her life so let her pursue that. He's got one for you too and when you're ready He'll still be there.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 10:05:10 AM
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delete123
Posts: 991
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Feel free to correct me,thanx
You are describing what is erroneously referred to as a soul tie. This is something the Deliverance Movement fabricated along with generational sin. It is a false teaching...there is nothing in the Bible to back it up. It also directly contradicts this New Testament verse:
17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." -II Corinthians 5
When the OP's girlfriend repented and rededicated her life to Jesus Christ, she was set free from all past sins because...
"...if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." -John 8:36
Thanx Kat D
for clarifying that for me.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 10:22:35 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Feel free to correct me,thanx
You are describing what is erroneously referred to as a soul tie. This is something the Deliverance Movement fabricated along with generational sin. It is a false teaching...there is nothing in the Bible to back it up. It also directly contradicts this New Testament verse:
17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." -II Corinthians 5
When the OP's girlfriend repented and rededicated her life to Jesus Christ, she was set free from all past sins because...
"...if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." -John 8:36
Thanx Kat D
for clarifying that for me.
You're welcome, Delete. Blessings to you!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 11:47:46 AM
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virgofrom1966
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I am back and I would just like to say that I think some of you are on
point and some of you need to look further. One of you hit it just on point, and that is that there was an emotional and physical bond between
these two people after 3 years. There is nothing wrong with one of them looking further into the whole spiritual exploration. The problem here is after three years of emotional and physical bonding that when one decided to get real with God, they didn't include the other. The only indication that person was into the whole religion thing was the fact that they attended church on Sunday. There was no conversation like, hey, you know we have been together a long time and I want you to know that I have found something that makes me happy and I want to share it with you. It was all of a sudden, one day, hey, we are no longer having sex and you can't do anything about it. That is the part that feels like betrayal. How can you spend that long with someone in that capacity and just move on to what you think you need to do and leave the other person behind. Is that really how a Christian is supposed to behave? No one is trying to stop anyone from exploring their religious needs here.
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:01:13 PM
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Conundrum
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No, a Christian shouldn't cut off all ties without some sort of explanation or even an invitation to join in on the spiritual journey. However, a lot of us Christians are imperfect  and don't do everything in the exactly right way.
I remember one time I broke up with someone (it wasn't sexual, but still) and didn't give that person a good explanation (ANY explanation, really) about why we needed to break up. Why not? Because I was dumb and immature.  The breakup DID need to happen, but I went about it in a wrong way.
I think something similar is happening here. Yes, you two did need to break up or at the VERY least quit the sexual sin. But did your ex do it in the right way? No, not really. He/she should have shared Christ with you and invited you into the forgiveness that he/she found. But maybe your ex was not thinking totally straight in this aspect and just couldn't bring it up for whatever reason. That happens, too.
However, I will say that "we are no longer having sex and you can't do anything about that" is the best thing to do in some cases. Cut off the temptation, period. I've seen too many people on these forums cry about how they simply can't leave their sin, that they enjoy the sex too much (or feel too pressured to have it) to say 'no,' yet regret having sex to begin with or staying in the relationship. True turning from the wrong action means stopping the wrong action, period. So in this, your ex is correct. However, as I said above, your ex not inviting you to share in Christ was a wrong thing.
Questions: If your ex had asked you to accept Christ, would you do so? And would you do it to save the relationship or because you really wanted to become a Christian?
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:02:39 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
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quote:
It was all of a sudden, one day, hey, we are no longer having sex and you can't do anything about it. That is the part that feels like betrayal.
So, what would you have considered an acceptable amount of time for her to continue to have sex with you after her conversion?... for another week, month, or year before she said no more? What you don't seem to understand ( nor can you be expected to understand because you are not a believer) is that she was under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and that is not something one can play around with.
I understand that you are hurt, but you just can't change her decision. For her to prolong her sin to keep you happy would have been unacceptable to God. Something she is no longer willing to do. You just need to accept and respect it...you don't have to like it.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Converting without your partner - 11/25/2008 12:03:27 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: virgofrom1966
I am back and I would just like to say that I think some of you are on
point and some of you need to look further. One of you hit it just on point, and that is that there was an emotional and physical bond between
these two people after 3 years. There is nothing wrong with one of them looking further into the whole spiritual exploration. The problem here is after three years of emotional and physical bonding that when one decided to get real with God, they didn't include the other. The only indication that person was into the whole religion thing was the fact that they attended church on Sunday. There was no conversation like, hey, you know we have been together a long time and I want you to know that I have found something that makes me happy and I want to share it with you. It was all of a sudden, one day, hey, we are no longer having sex and you can't do anything about it. That is the part that feels like betrayal. How can you spend that long with someone in that capacity and just move on to what you think you need to do and leave the other person behind. Is that really how a Christian is supposed to behave? No one is trying to stop anyone from exploring their religious needs here.
Did she have reason to be afraid you'd resist or complain or try to talk her out of it? It's hard to believe you've had no discussion of religion or theology in three years.
But the other possibility that occurs to me is that she's heard something very "fire and brimstone" (for lack of a better term) and she's been told she must cut all ties and walk away. I kinda agree that, unless you were willing to come along wholeheartedly (at least long enough to see for yourself), she really would have to cut her losses and sever the relationship. But I do think the loving, Christian thing to do would at least be to sit you down and give you that option or at least explain herself. I see your point. Maybe she didn't think she could be strong enough to do that. This is probably really hard for her!! I certainly see what about this feels like a betrayal but try not to take it too personally, she probably feels very weak and this is probably so hard for her to do!!
Has she just cut off contact and broken up completely? Can you still talk to her - without any sort of pressure? (Actually I'd think you'd need to be prepared to be strong even if she came in weak and tried to cave without pressure.) Are you willing to honesty say "if this is what you want and need right now, at least let me try to figure it out for myself as well before we just scrap the last three years"?
Glad you checked back in, BTW! But you're still in gender-neutral . . . mind if we ask if you're the gf or bf (I have been operating under assumptions and my dh actually assumed the opposite); it might matter.
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