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Is Celebrating Christmas important?
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Total Votes : 82
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(last vote on : 1/8/2009 2:18:31 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/1/2008 10:22:50 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
About the same. Easter is highly commercialized by many in our culture as well. Hate to break it to you, but even feast days mandated for the Jews by God have been commercialized in our society and there are many folks who observe those days even though they don't even believe in God. 
Not surpise about commercialiastion but celebrating? U sure about that? Anyone can vouch for that?
i cannot see anything like that in the far east here.....
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/1/2008 11:22:48 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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Why is it continually important for the non-celebrants to harp on the folks that do celebrate it for doing so? I confess, I have no idea why. It isn't quite enough that most of it's religious connotations have already been sterilised from it by pop-culture and a material-mad world, but we have some Christians condemning others for placing any significance around a Christmas holiday or season. I grew up with Christmas, and it's part of my cultural make-up, and yes I celebrate it, so I'd like someone to definitively tell me I'm risking my salvation because of that fact.
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Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 11:11:44 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4319
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
Why is it continually important for the non-celebrants to harp on the folks that do celebrate it for doing so? I confess, I have no idea why. It isn't quite enough that most of it's religious connotations have already been sterilised from it by pop-culture and a material-mad world, but we have some Christians condemning others for placing any significance around a Christmas holiday or season. I grew up with Christmas, and it's part of my cultural make-up, and yes I celebrate it, so I'd like someone to definitively tell me I'm risking my salvation because of that fact.
Glad to oblige
HPD, You are risking your salvation by partaking in the celebration of your Lord and Savior's birth. Ya heathen 
Oops...wait a minute...
John 10: 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
I guess your salvation is sealed after all
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 12:50:09 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3636
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
If one were to save up a tithe and celebrate the birth at the proper time
How does one know the "proper time?" There is good solid scholarship that supports a number of different possibilities for the time of Christ's birth (approximate dates) and some very compelling scholarship supports a Dec/Jan time frame, while admittedly some also does not. The reality is that none of the arguments are compelling enough that anyone should disregard all other arguments. If we are honest, we must acknowledge that we don't know the "proper time" and in the absence of that knowledge there is no compelling reason to abandon the traditional date.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 12:56:02 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
Why is it continually important for the non-celebrants to harp on the folks that do celebrate it for doing so? I confess, I have no idea why. It isn't quite enough that most of it's religious connotations have already been sterilised from it by pop-culture and a material-mad world, but we have some Christians condemning others for placing any significance around a Christmas holiday or season. I grew up with Christmas, and it's part of my cultural make-up, and yes I celebrate it, so I'd like someone to definitively tell me I'm risking my salvation because of that fact.
Glad to oblige
HPD, You are risking your salvation by partaking in the celebration of your Lord and Savior's birth. Ya heathen
Oops...wait a minute...
John 10: 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
I guess your salvation is sealed after all
I am totally opposed to the pagan holidays.
But, if it comes down to accusing others of losing salvation,
it has become a cultish thing. Most denominations have issues
that they say are salvic when it's not. The only requirement is belief and
acceptance of the blood sacrifice by the Messiah and the belief
that God raised Him from the dead. And then true repentance
which is a change of heart and entering the Kingdom by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
So we are the only one that knows if we are a child of God or not.
Many follow the Feasts and other Jewish things, but they are just
as lost because they are not covered by the blood of the Lamb.
I do believe that I personally am to NOT mix my faith with the
things handed down by our forefathers that they received from
theirs that received them all the way back to Nimrod, etc.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 1:02:04 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1216
Status: offline
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pagan holidays are when pagans celebrate pagan things. sometimes they celebrate pagan things at the same time i celebrate biblical events, and cultural stuff. i'm still not celebrating a pagan holiday.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 3:35:44 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 2061
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Do a test: They say that children are an evidence of their environment.
ask a child age 3 to 13 years old: which celebration do you like best
Pasover/Easter/Ressurection oR Christmas?
I generally don't poll children to establish doctrine or for my understanding of God's acceptance of an activity, one way or another.
But then, it was Jesus who said, "For such is the kingdom of heaven."
When in doubt, listen to the Master.
Not about polling for doctrine....its about how celebrating Christmas has established that doctrine in the heads of our young ones -that Christmas is more imporatnt than Death/Resurrection
No disrespect intended, but do you really expect small children, many of them still unsaved, to understand Christian doctrine?
I don't expect a lost man that's 40 years-old to understand the significance of either the Incarnation OR the Resurrection, so I'm certainly not distressed that the average 3 or 4 year-old child doesn't.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 3:42:46 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I don't expect a lost man that's 40 years-old to understand the significance of either the Incarnation OR the Resurrection, so I'm certainly not distressed that the average 3 or 4 year-old child doesn't.
Yup!
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 3:46:52 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
I am totally opposed to the pagan holidays.
But, if it comes down to accusing others of losing salvation,
it has become a cultish thing. Most denominations have issues
that they say are salvic when it's not. The only requirement is belief and
acceptance of the blood sacrifice by the Messiah and the belief
that God raised Him from the dead. And then true repentance
which is a change of heart and entering the Kingdom by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
So we are the only one that knows if we are a child of God or not.
Many follow the Feasts and other Jewish things, but they are just
as lost because they are not covered by the blood of the Lamb.
I do believe that I personally am to NOT mix my faith with the
things handed down by our forefathers that they received from
theirs that received them all the way back to Nimrod, etc.
I guess I'm going to glean from these multiple, wordy paragraphs that you do not, indeed, claim I am risking my salvation for celebrating Christmas. Is that summation correct? If so, what are you hoping to accomplish by introducing strife where there need be none?
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 4:52:23 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
If one were to save up a tithe and celebrate the birth at the proper time
How does one know the "proper time?" There is good solid scholarship that supports a number of different possibilities for the time of Christ's birth (approximate dates) and some very compelling scholarship supports a Dec/Jan time frame, while admittedly some also does not. The reality is that none of the arguments are compelling enough that anyone should disregard all other arguments. If we are honest, we must acknowledge that we don't know the "proper time" and in the absence of that knowledge there is no compelling reason to abandon the traditional date.
Who's tradition? The one regarding the appearance of the Messiah on Sukkot or the one observed by the roman catholic church since it was adopted by Constantine?
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 5:00:47 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
I am totally opposed to the pagan holidays.
But, if it comes down to accusing others of losing salvation,
it has become a cultish thing. Most denominations have issues
that they say are salvic when it's not. The only requirement is belief and
acceptance of the blood sacrifice by the Messiah and the belief
that God raised Him from the dead. And then true repentance
which is a change of heart and entering the Kingdom by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
So we are the only one that knows if we are a child of God or not.
Many follow the Feasts and other Jewish things, but they are just
as lost because they are not covered by the blood of the Lamb.
I do believe that I personally am to NOT mix my faith with the
things handed down by our forefathers that they received from
theirs that received them all the way back to Nimrod, etc.
I guess I'm going to glean from these multiple, wordy paragraphs that you do not, indeed, claim I am risking my salvation for celebrating Christmas. Is that summation correct? If so, what are you hoping to accomplish by introducing strife where there need be none?
You are correct in that it isn't about your salvation.
Your are incorrect I am trying to introduce strife.
I try to inject the truth of Scripture, but it gets obscured
by the traditions of man, thus, it seems like introducing strife.
I've learned many decades ago, that if you touch a sacred cow,
you're going to get heat over it. lol.
I study a great deal of the history of the true church.
Even in this subject there are factions, but there is only one truth.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 5:07:37 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
but there is only one truth.
And you have it?
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 6:17:44 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Who's tradition? The one regarding the appearance of the Messiah on Sukkot or the one observed by the roman catholic church since it was adopted by Constantine?
1) The Jews do not have a "traditional" celebration for the the appearance of the Messiah on Sukkot because they don't believe the Messiah has yet come.
Boy, how silly of me not to know that jews do not believe that the Messiah has come. Please . . .
quote:
2) Many Jewish scholars throughout history have believed that the arrival of the Messiah would be during Pesach, so a Sukkot date does not represent a "tradition", just an option (or guess) that some Jewish scholars have made.
Why is many the standard and some a guess. Having actually seen Pesach Seders I know that a place is set for Elijah. I think this is what Yeshua refered to when speaking of John. Therefore, there is a tradition here related to recognition of the coming of the Messiah.
quote:
3) The traditional Dec. 25 date predates Constantine by about 200 years.
References, please.
quote:
4) The only truly traditional celebration of Jesus' arrival has always been in the end of Dec. because it has only been the Christian church that has had a reason to celebrate the coming of the Messiah.
So what is truly traditional, that which everybody does, or that which is derived from Scripture? Indulgences have had a long tradition, as have absolutions. Why should we use other less traditional methods?
quote:
In perspective, if you want to celebrate the arrival of the Messiah during Sukkot, then by all means do so. But please understand that their is no compelling reason for anyone else to follow suit. There is not any compelling reason for anyone to accept the Sukkot "theory" as compelling enough to change the date of our celebration because there is equally compelling evidence that contradicts that theory. The reality is that we simply do not know what time of year Jesus was born. There are good arguments for Fall, Spring, Winter, and even a few for Summer. And given the early acceptance of a winter date by the church, there is little reason to abandon the traditional date for someone's latest theory.
If we don't know, why continue to do something that is not commanded in the Scriptures or has questionable connection to the event in question? Didn't the Messiah warn us about the traditons of men.
Mk 7:6-9 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"
So you do not presume me to be stupid, I do know the context was regarding the rabbinic traditon of hand washing. However, this verse is commonly used to justify throwing out all kinds of "old testiment" practices while at the same time holding on to roman catholic traditions. By the way, could you help me with the proper definition of the term translated as "hypocrites"?
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 12/2/2008 6:28:45 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 6:50:07 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
i understand 95% of americans celebrate christmas....you have 95% christians?
how many celebrate His death/ressurection?
About the same. Easter is highly commercialized by many in our culture as well. Hate to break it to you, but even feast days mandated for the Jews by God have been commercialized in our society and there are many folks who observe those days even though they don't even believe in God.
I think that's why God looks at the heart unlike so many in this thread...
This is news to me. Where might one find such an occurance, since it requires them to make special arrangements that do not match up with times of opportunity in the society prevalent in the USA? You must be talking about secular jews. Doesn't Yeshua(Jesus) tell us, (Mt 6:21) "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." If one were to save up a tithe and celebrate the birth at the proper time, one could make a connection. However, I do not believe even the secular jews change the actual appointed times for their own convenience or to accommodate other faiths.
1. Yes, I have seen this as there are many secular Jews around the world - plus there are many folks who are into Jewish "fads" around here and corrupt good things because of it. Anything can be corrupted - that's what satan does. Takes things that God intended for good, and twists and distorts them. In addition, even religious Jews who observe the feasts can still reject God because many have still rejected the Messiah. I know. They are in my family.
2. Why are some of you so obsessed with dates?
Hi P
Its not about jewish 'fads'. Its about the feasts of the LORD. Thats what theyare called in scrtptures. i regert that you called them fads. Theres no corruption in scriptures. Theres howver corruption in mandated affairs, no? Yes, even 'christians' celebrating christmas may not do His will. Even muslims can celebrate christmas with 'christians'......nough said....
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 6:54:01 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Do a test: They say that children are an evidence of their environment.
ask a child age 3 to 13 years old: which celebration do you like best
Pasover/Easter/Ressurection oR Christmas?
I generally don't poll children to establish doctrine or for my understanding of God's acceptance of an activity, one way or another.
But then, it was Jesus who said, "For such is the kingdom of heaven."
When in doubt, listen to the Master.
Not about polling for doctrine....its about how celebrating Christmas has established that doctrine in the heads of our young ones -that Christmas is more imporatnt than Death/Resurrection
No disrespect intended, but do you really expect small children, many of them still unsaved, to understand Christian doctrine?
I don't expect a lost man that's 40 years-old to understand the significance of either the Incarnation OR the Resurrection, so I'm certainly not distressed that the average 3 or 4 year-old child doesn't.
No i dont expect them to understand at the time....BUT they become what you teach them, dont they?
And i certainly expect fathers/mothers to start imaprting Truths to them even at such young age. No? So in the hope that before they reach 40 years young, they are already well in Christ.....
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 6:57:41 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
I am totally opposed to the pagan holidays.
But, if it comes down to accusing others of losing salvation,
it has become a cultish thing. Most denominations have issues
that they say are salvic when it's not. The only requirement is belief and
acceptance of the blood sacrifice by the Messiah and the belief
that God raised Him from the dead. And then true repentance
which is a change of heart and entering the Kingdom by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
So we are the only one that knows if we are a child of God or not.
Many follow the Feasts and other Jewish things, but they are just
as lost because they are not covered by the blood of the Lamb.
I do believe that I personally am to NOT mix my faith with the
things handed down by our forefathers that they received from
theirs that received them all the way back to Nimrod, etc.
I guess I'm going to glean from these multiple, wordy paragraphs that you do not, indeed, claim I am risking my salvation for celebrating Christmas. Is that summation correct? If so, what are you hoping to accomplish by introducing strife where there need be none?
You are correct in that it isn't about your salvation.
Your are incorrect I am trying to introduce strife.
I try to inject the truth of Scripture, but it gets obscured
by the traditions of man, thus, it seems like introducing strife.
I've learned many decades ago, that if you touch a sacred cow,
you're going to get heat over it. lol.
Amen! i refuse to be Big mac muncher just cos the western church spreads christmas togther with christianity.
i rather search scriptures to tell me what i should be doing.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 7:05:39 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
In perspective, if you want to celebrate the arrival of the Messiah during Sukkot, then by all means do so. But please understand that their is no compelling reason for anyone else to follow suit. There is not any compelling reason for anyone to accept the Sukkot "theory" as compelling enough to change the date of our celebration because there is equally compelling evidence that contradicts that theory. The reality is that we simply do not know what time of year Jesus was born. There are good arguments for Fall, Spring, Winter, and even a few for Summer. And given the early acceptance of a winter date by the church, there is little reason to abandon the traditional date for someone's latest theory.
AMEN! The jews have missed the occasion.... 
Infact theres NO compelling reason to celebrate His birth. His only instrcution was to celebrate His death.
On the date of his Birth, what do make of the calculations using John Baptist birth as a yardstick?
i understand John was born sometime in Pesach and calculating from this we get Jesus' birth on Tabernacles.
Also, the jews celebrate Pesach leaving an empty chair for Elijah....hmmm....spirit of Elijah?
We may not be able to accurately fix the date, but scriptures certainly tells us the seasons
and its not dec.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/resource/abiah.htm
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 7:28:34 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
If you care to read, you will see that i am an easterner not one from the western culture.
I read that. I also don't really care too much whether you observe Christmas or not as I do not believe it will be of any consequence in whether or not you will have salvation.
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Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 12/2/2008 7:58:43 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
If you care to read, you will see that i am an easterner not one from the western culture.
I read that. I also don't really care too much whether you observe Christmas or not as I do not believe it will be of any consequence in whether or not you will have salvation.
So what are doing here in this thread? 
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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