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[Poll]
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Is Celebrating Christmas important?
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Total Votes : 82
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(last vote on : 1/8/2009 2:18:31 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:25:33 AM
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Qtman
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Prophet I can't speak for everyone but it does not for me. I even said it was the second most important event surpassed only by His Death on the cross.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 10:51:01 AM
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Roberta_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
But the point is : Is the birth not overshadowing the death in our christian/human traditions?
To the world, yes. However the world doesn't understand our reading our Bibles or going to church either. That doesn't mean we should stop doing them.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 1:28:16 PM
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car2ner
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I think that if I stubbornly refuse to celebrate Christmas, heathen friends and neighbors would only see me as a religious nut. I doubt they would want to know about my faith and would most likely see me as passing judgment on them. Instead, if I am friendly and wish them a merry Christmas, perhaps someday we could talk about how it isn't truly his birthday etc.
How I celebrate Christmas here in Georgia has nothing to do with how they celebrate anything in a Muslim country.
I do not love Jesus any less on the other 364 days of the year because I celebrate Christmas anymore than I am loved any less 364 days of the year if someone celebrates my birthday.
<--- the anti bah humbugger.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:14:31 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
But the point is : Is the birth not overshadowing the death in our christian/human traditions?
To the world, yes. However the world doesn't understand our reading our Bibles or going to church either. That doesn't mean we should stop doing them.
Then by such great emphasis, do we not project that His birth is of more importnace than His death?
Good you should mentioned reading our bibles: where does it say to celebrate His birth at Christmas?
Shalom
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:26:05 PM
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prophet
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Thansk for the lots of precious thoughts.
Now a challenge for the traditionalists of Christmas:
Lets try to establish whther Christmas or Passover/ressurection has more foothold in the minds of even christians.
Do a test: They say that children are an evidence of their environment.
ask a child age 3 to 13 years old: which celebration do you like best
Pasover/Easter/Ressurection oR Christmas?
Shalom Y'all!
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:38:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I think that if I stubbornly refuse to celebrate Christmas, heathen friends and neighbors would only see me as a religious nut.
Yes, because the heathens believe Christmas is of God... One of their many misconceptions...
quote:
I doubt they would want to know about my faith and would most likely see me as passing judgment on them.
Actually it's the truth of God's word that condemns them, so whatever they would think regarding Christiams(which isn't part of the truth of God's word) is a moot point...
quote:
Instead, if I am friendly and wish them a merry Christmas, perhaps someday we could talk about how it isn't truly his birthday etc.
Too funny... Tell them the "truth" later... I am rolling...
quote:
I do not love Jesus any less on the other 364 days of the year because I celebrate Christmas anymore than I am loved any less 364 days of the year if someone celebrates my birthday.
At least folks actually get your b-day correct... You'd think folks who love God would would have the right day...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:50:44 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
But the point is : Is the birth not overshadowing the death in our christian/human traditions?
To the world, yes. However the world doesn't understand our reading our Bibles or going to church either. That doesn't mean we should stop doing them.
Then by such great emphasis, do we not project that His birth is of more importance than His death?
Good you should mentioned reading our bibles: where does it say to celebrate His birth at Christmas?
Shalom
Same place it tells us that it's OK to drive cars, use electricity, post on forums, etc., etc., etc., etc..........
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 7:59:26 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
But the point is : Is the birth not overshadowing the death in our christian/human traditions?
To the world, yes. However the world doesn't understand our reading our Bibles or going to church either. That doesn't mean we should stop doing them.
Then by such great emphasis, do we not project that His birth is of more importance than His death?
Good you should mentioned reading our bibles: where does it say to celebrate His birth at Christmas?
Shalom
Same place it tells us that it's OK to drive cars, use electricity, post on forums, etc., etc., etc., etc..........
Hi
care to carry out that test above on your younger ones?
Thanks
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 8:10:17 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Hi
care to carry out that test above on your younger ones?
Thanks
Little ones place the importance largely on what their parents have taught them.
Mine saw an equal amount of attention paid to Resurrection Sunday and Christmas.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 8:34:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Hi
care to carry out that test above on your younger ones?
Thanks
Little ones place the importance largely on what their parents have taught them.
Mine saw an equal amount of attention paid to Resurrection Sunday and Christmas.
Christmas is about getting things... That's the attention paid...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 8:45:50 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9473
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
But the point is : Is the birth not overshadowing the death in our christian/human traditions?
To the world, yes. However the world doesn't understand our reading our Bibles or going to church either. That doesn't mean we should stop doing them.
Then by such great emphasis, do we not project that His birth is of more importance than His death?
Good you should mentioned reading our bibles: where does it say to celebrate His birth at Christmas?
Shalom
Same place it tells us that it's OK to drive cars, use electricity, post on forums, etc., etc., etc., etc..........
Hi
care to carry out that test above on your younger ones?
Thanks
To ask those questions of a 3 or 3 and 1/2 year old children would not be a honest comparison to what you wish to prove. Children that age have yet to get over the self centered stage of infancy. Most everything to them is still about them. Even those raised in Christian homes. However, if you raise the age by say three years I believe you would get an answer that would surprise you. I know if you ask my 6 and 7 year old Grandaughters they will tell you what I have been saying all along.
And others are right there is no verse of scripture that says to set aside a day to celebrate Christ's birth.
In fact there is not scripture telling us to do a lot of the things we do today.
There is no scripture saing we should set aside a day to celebrate His Death, burial and Resurection .
THere is not any scripture that tells me I should stop at the gas station and buy gas when the gas guage says empty.
And there also is no scripture that says one's salvation was secured before Christ. In fact scriture teaches that the Blood of Christ covered our sins and because He shed that blood we have our salvation. Any other teaching about this is false.
Now the importance of Christ's birth is like trying to discuss which came first, the chicken or the egg. With the exception of creation you can't have one without the other. If it were not for the egg there would be no chickens.
Christ's birth is the same way. If it were not for his birth then His death could not have happened. THere fore they are of almost equal importance in the grand scheme of things. His Death is the most important as for as salvation is concerned but with hout his birth he would not have died.
And before someone brings it up yes we can play "what if" It is a fact Jesus Himself prayed for God to spare him of that death. Even though He did finish by saying not my will but thine be done.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 9:17:01 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
To ask those questions of a 3 or 3 and 1/2 year old children would not be a honest comparison to what you wish to prove. Children that age have yet to get over the self centered stage of infancy. Most everything to them is still about them. Even those raised in Christian homes. However, if you raise the age by say three years I believe you would get an answer that would surprise you. I know if you ask my 6 and 7 year old Grandaughters they will tell you what I have been saying all along.
Yes, you maybe right. But would care to do that? Ask them? Thanks
And others are right there is no verse of scripture that says to set aside a day to celebrate Christ's birth.
In fact there is not scripture telling us to do a lot of the things we do today.
There is no scripture saing we should set aside a day to celebrate His Death, burial and Resurection .
Beg to differ. If we do study the prophetic feats of the Lord:
Theres Passover(death), Unleaven Bread(Burial) and Firstfruits(Ressurection). So its back to wehther we choose to celebrate according to His patterns or use a manmade occasion.
THere is not any scripture that tells me I should stop at the gas station and buy gas when the gas guage says empty.
You are right but as Soverignishe pointed out: Its more important than a daily chore. Its about our Lord and His will.
And there also is no scripture that says one's salvation was secured before Christ. In fact scriture teaches that the Blood of Christ covered our sins and because He shed that blood we have our salvation. Any other teaching about this is false.
Huh? Can you elaborate on this?
Dont wanna misconsture you on this.....what do make of these verses?
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
1 Now faith is the substance F36 of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet F37 speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went
Now the importance of Christ's birth is like trying to discuss which came first, the chicken or the egg. With the exception of creation you can't have one without the other. If it were not for the egg there would be no chickens.
Christ's birth is the same way. If it were not for his birth then His death could not have happened. THere fore they are of almost equal importance in the grand scheme of things. His Death is the most important as for as salvation is concerned but with hout his birth he would not have died.
And before someone brings it up yes we can play "what if" It is a fact Jesus Himself prayed for God to spare him of that death. Even though He did finish by saying not my will but thine be done.
Not if you study the prophetic feast of the Lord where God shows His purposes and timing. no confusion et all.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/28/2008 10:42:59 PM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1329
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Important for our Christian walk? No
Important to me? Yes.
However I place no religious significance to it. Its kinda like the Fourth of July except I'm weird in that I like the winter weather better (I do live in Florida). Or Halloween. And its great for nostalgia with all the old movies and references to a simpler time (all the while we descend into materialism with Christmas its high holy day).
I believe its a good witnessing opportunity as well as non church goers feel the need to go on Christmas (and Easter). Many churches try to capitalize on that. Also those Nativitys serve as a good reminder of Jesus (albeit one that is easily distorted or watered down as they only point to his arrival, not necessarily to his true purpose and call on our lives).
So to me Christmas is fun and not sinful. So I have fun with it. The Christian tie ins are a pleasant bonus but I don't think they are the reason most people celebrate Christmas. Please note that I think its great that some Christian families elect to alter some of the current traditions to make Christmas more Christ focused. But they aren't the norm, sad to say.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:18:19 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11750
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I am in the process of cleaning up this thread.
I am not sure who licked the red off y'all's candy, but take your squabbles to pm and stop baiting one another and taking the bait. Now.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:38:08 AM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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Ps103
i am sorry i dont understand this bit:
quote:
I am not sure who licked the red off y'all's candy, but take your squabbles to pm and stop baiting one another and taking the bait. Now.
Pls PM if possiblt to clarify.
Thanks
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:48:16 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Ps103
i am sorry i dont understand this bit:
quote:
I am not sure who licked the red off y'all's candy, but take your squabbles to pm and stop baiting one another and taking the bait. Now.
Pls PM if possiblt to clarify.
Thanks
Play nice...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 1:06:24 AM
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prophet
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Ps103
i am sorry i dont understand this bit:
quote:
I am not sure who licked the red off y'all's candy, but take your squabbles to pm and stop baiting one another and taking the bait. Now.
Pls PM if possiblt to clarify.
Thanks
Play nice...
Ic Thanks
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 2:54:09 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1216
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One good reason for the disciples not celebrating the birth of Christ: the life of Christ on earth was still a process and an unfolding puzzle. In retrospect, the life of Christ was more stunning. The life of Christ was recorded, understood and taught largely in retrospect. (to the church...not to mention that they were not gentiles, they had a structure for observing their faith in place)
It is not anti biblical to celebrate as a church, with music, and the telling of scripture, the birth of Christ. The actual birth of Christ was announced with a pretty impressive musical event. It was part of God unfolding the story to earthlings. Scripture telling is always biblical.
Decorations and symbols used in worship? The tabernacle was a complex of adornments that demonstrated truth. It is not in general a bad principle.
Feasts by christians on days other that prescribed holy days? There were wedding feasts, and other basic life gatherings and feasts. There was the ultimate example given of a family reunion rich in truth as the father prepared for the prodigal son.
When we eat we give thanks. We fellowship. We tell of our lives of faith to the generations. Kinda biblical.
The liturgical calendar? It's just an organised method of cycling through doctrine and biblical events. Biblical principle there too.
It's pretty hard to make a biblical case for gentiles being required to take on OT traditions of worship.
A pagan holiday? That would be a day when pagans celebrate pagan things. If pagans and christians celebrate their own beliefs on the same days, what of it?
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 4:28:35 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
Feasts by christians on days other that prescribed holy days? There were wedding feasts, and other basic life gatherings and feasts. There was the ultimate example given of a family reunion rich in truth as the father prepared for the prodigal son.
Weddings and basic life gatherings are not assigning a day(and the wrong one) to the birth of Christ...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 5:43:54 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1216
Status: offline
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neither is christmas. it's assigning a day to reflect on it, to re-tell the story. it's very much like the cycle of remembrances and observances of the OT. but most of us are gentiles. we are not obligated to be jewish-like, but the telling of our faith to the generations on a regular cyclical basis, and celebrating such is a sound biblical principle. what's wrong with the gentiles looking at the pattern of observance in the OT and patterning a cycle of telling and remembering the life of the gentile Savior? what forbids that?
God does not forbid such a thing.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:02:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
neither is christmas.
It's called CHRISTmas....
quote:
it's assigning a day to reflect on it, to re-tell the story.
The above is out of touch with the reality of what is Christmas..
quote:
it's very much like the cycle of remembrances and observances of the OT.
Which were commanded by God.... And when folks took matters into their hands some paid with their lives...
quote:
but most of us are gentiles. we are not obligated to be jewish-like, but the telling of our faith to the generations on a regular cyclical basis, and celebrating such is a sound biblical principle. what's wrong with the gentiles looking at the pattern of observance in the OT and patterning a cycle of telling and remembering the life of the gentile Savior? what forbids that?
God does not forbid such a thing.
God forbids man usurping His authority...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:20:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
To ask those questions of a 3 or 3 and 1/2 year old children would not be a honest comparison to what you wish to prove. Children that age have yet to get over the self centered stage of infancy. Most everything to them is still about them. Even those raised in Christian homes. However, if you raise the age by say three years I believe you would get an answer that would surprise you.
People are self-centered, not just kids...
quote:
And others are right there is no verse of scripture that says to set aside a day to celebrate Christ's birth.
In fact there is not scripture telling us to do a lot of the things we do today.
There is no scripture saing we should set aside a day to celebrate His Death, burial and Resurection .
THere is not any scripture that tells me I should stop at the gas station and buy gas when the gas guage says empty.
Pumping gas isn't an issue liken to man assigning a day to the birth of Christ... And the wrong day for that matter...Surely something of such great importance and attributed to God should be correct and done according to what God commanded...
quote:
And there also is no scripture that says one's salvation was secured before Christ. In fact scriture teaches that the Blood of Christ covered our sins and because He shed that blood we have our salvation. Any other teaching about this is false.
That would mean Elijah was like a 747 in the holding pattern till the cross... The bible says he was taken up into heaven... You are wrong and binding God to a time line...
quote:
Now the importance of Christ's birth is like trying to discuss which came first, the chicken or the egg. With the exception of creation you can't have one without the other. If it were not for the egg there would be no chickens.
Failed analogy...
quote:
Christ's birth is the same way. If it were not for his birth then His death could not have happened.
There can be no IF with God... Christ was ordained... The Lamb was said to be heading to the cross before creation... Which tossed a huge wrench into your time line doctrine...
quote:
THere fore they are of almost equal importance in the grand scheme of things. His Death is the most important as for as salvation is concerned but with hout his birth he would not have died.
No more important that the birth of his mother, and her linage if one is going to look at this level...
quote:
And before someone brings it up yes we can play "what if" It is a fact Jesus Himself prayed for God to spare him of that death. Even though He did finish by saying not my will but thine be done.
There are many verses that speak of Christ willing to accept His ordained purpose... There is no WHAT IF with God... His council stand forever and He changes not, therefore the sons of Jacob are no consumed... Christ the same, yesterday, today and forever...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Celebrating Christmas important? - 11/29/2008 12:37:39 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11750
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
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It never fails to amaze and dismay me when Christians feel compelled to judge other Christians about when and how they celebrate or do not celebrate. Didn't Paul cover this clearly enough for us? We are *not* to judge our brothers about these things. Period. This should be the end of the yearly discussions.
To answer the OP, it is important for some, perhaps even most to celebrate Christmas, but not for all.
If we keep the Incarnation as the focus (rather than greed and materialism), I cannot see why anyone would object. The church calendar follows the Gospels, and Advent/Christmas is the beginning of the Good News. SImple as that.
If someone wants to judge someone for rehearsing the life of Christ through the year, well--okay, but I do not see the point of wasting the effort.
Likewise, if someone wants to keep the Jewish feasts instead, that is fine with me--especially if they share their food with me. 
If the Holy Spirit prompts someone to change how they celebrate, then they are obliged to obey and do not need my input about it.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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