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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 6:52:38 AM
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Birdiecat
Posts: 51
Joined: 5/2/2008
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Because John Lennon remarked that the Beatles were more popular than Christ, I got to go see the Beatles in Aug. 66 in Memphis, Tenn. At the time I'm sure more teens would rather have stayed home and listen to "yeah, yeah, yeah" rather than listen to a preacher. Did you know that John Lennon was a born-again Christian? Read that a while back, Miss Yoko Ono and her occult-loving self dragged Lennon down with her.
Vatican's forgiveness? I only need God's forgiveness!
_____________________________
Come, Lord Jesus!
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 10:02:40 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3952
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
That caterwauling she does should be used as a torture device.
Too cruel and unusual. Plus, I think being forced to listen to Yoko sing is barred by the Geneva Convention.
That explains why the US doesn't want to abide by the Convention. In the secret CIA prisons, Yoko tracks were alternated with FOX News. Unfortunately, the prisoners were so traumatized, they could no longer put together any coherent thoughts and little useful information was gleaned.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 10:43:59 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Birdiecat
Because John Lennon remarked that the Beatles were more popular than Christ, I got to go see the Beatles in Aug. 66 in Memphis, Tenn. At the time I'm sure more teens would rather have stayed home and listen to "yeah, yeah, yeah" rather than listen to a preacher. Did you know that John Lennon was a born-again Christian? Read that a while back, Miss Yoko Ono and her occult-loving self dragged Lennon down with her.
Vatican's forgiveness? I only need God's forgiveness!
No, I did not know that. The Beatles have passed the test of time.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 12:47:05 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Birdiecat
Vatican's forgiveness? I only need God's forgiveness!
While technically this is true, we need only God's forgiveness. The problem is that God calls us to forgive one another. So, when the editorial writer said he forgave Lennon, he was just doing what Christians are supposed to do, forgive.
Of course, the other problem, is that it is not clear that it is the Vatican which is doing the forgiving, just some guy who writes an opinion column. It would be much easier to sort these issues out if we actually knew what exactly was said.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 1:24:35 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Birdiecat
Vatican's forgiveness? I only need God's forgiveness!
While technically this is true, we need only God's forgiveness. The problem is that God calls us to forgive one another. So, when the editorial writer said he forgave Lennon, he was just doing what Christians are supposed to do, forgive.
Of course, the other problem, is that it is not clear that it is the Vatican which is doing the forgiving, just some guy who writes an opinion column. It would be much easier to sort these issues out if we actually knew what exactly was said.
I provided the link to the article with the OP. I am sorry but I cannot read Latin or Italian so I cannot help you with your desire for the exact words that was stated from the Vatican.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 1:31:34 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
I provided the link to the article with the OP. I am sorry but I cannot read Latin or Italian so I cannot help you with your desire for the exact words that was stated from the Vatican.
You provided the link to an article that talks about the original article. The problem I have is that we don't know:
1. What exactly was said.
2. Who said it.
If we don't know these things, how can we really comment on the issue? So, since you posted the article, my question is:
1. Who forgave Lennon?
2. Why do we care about whether this person forgives lennon or whether you forgive him?
In other words, why is this an issue?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 1:36:15 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10364
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
In other words, why is this an issue? A diversion from reality?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 3:31:00 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
I provided the link to the article with the OP. I am sorry but I cannot read Latin or Italian so I cannot help you with your desire for the exact words that was stated from the Vatican.
You provided the link to an article that talks about the original article. The problem I have is that we don't know:
1. What exactly was said.
2. Who said it.
If we don't know these things, how can we really comment on the issue? So, since you posted the article, my question is:
1. Who forgave Lennon?
2. Why do we care about whether this person forgives lennon or whether you forgive him?
In other words, why is this an issue?
Then why do you feel the need to comment about the article?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/25/2008 4:07:31 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Then why do you feel the need to comment about the article?
The reason that I commented was that you claimed that "the Vatican" forgave John Lennon. Of course, you never defined what you mean by "the Vatican". Was it an official church pronouncement, or just the opinion of one of the workers at the Vatican? Most likely it was the latter, but the article you cite gives us little information.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 11:07:27 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Then why do you feel the need to comment about the article?
The reason that I commented was that you claimed that "the Vatican" forgave John Lennon. Of course, you never defined what you mean by "the Vatican". Was it an official church pronouncement, or just the opinion of one of the workers at the Vatican? Most likely it was the latter, but the article you cite gives us little information.
I never claimed anything any different than what was written in the article.
Since you are the one who questions the truthfulness of the article, then maybe you can find out for us. Otherwise we will believe the article as it was written. So far I haven't seen anything contradicting the article.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 12:42:38 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
This article I find strange regarding the Vatican forgiving John Lennon.
You claim that the Vatican forgave Lennon. What do you mean by the Vatican?
a. The Pope
b. The Church as a whole
c. Some guy that works for the Vatican
d. Something else
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 12:59:08 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
This article I find strange regarding the Vatican forgiving John Lennon.
You claim that the Vatican forgave Lennon. What do you mean by the Vatican?
a. The Pope
b. The Church as a whole
c. Some guy that works for the Vatican
d. Something else
Once again the article I posted the link to has that as their head line
quote:
Vatican forgives John Lennon for Jesus quip Sat Nov 22, 9:54 pm
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 1:14:55 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
This article I find strange regarding the Vatican forgiving John Lennon.
You claim that the Vatican forgave Lennon. What do you mean by the Vatican?
a. The Pope
b. The Church as a whole
c. Some guy that works for the Vatican
d. Something else
Once again the article I posted the link to has that as their head line
quote:
Vatican forgives John Lennon for Jesus quip Sat Nov 22, 9:54 pm
In other words, you don't know. If you don't know, then why did you post the link to the article?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 2:20:04 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
This article I find strange regarding the Vatican forgiving John Lennon.
You claim that the Vatican forgave Lennon. What do you mean by the Vatican?
a. The Pope
b. The Church as a whole
c. Some guy that works for the Vatican
d. Something else
Once again the article I posted the link to has that as their head line
quote:
Vatican forgives John Lennon for Jesus quip Sat Nov 22, 9:54 pm
In other words, you don't know. If you don't know, then why did you post the link to the article?
what?? I do not believe anyone goes chasing down the articles to the links they provide to check for the accuracy... LOL I have already said I cannot read latin. SO why don't you go look it up for yourself if it is that important to you. I provided a link to the story. Other sources also carried this story.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 2:29:13 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
what?? I do not believe anyone goes chasing down the articles to the links they provide to check for the accuracy... LOL I have already said I cannot read latin. SO why don't you go look it up for yourself if it is that important to you. I provided a link to the story. Other sources also carried this story.
You misunderstand my question, so let me rephrase it:
Why did you link to the article? What was so interesting about the article that made it worthy in your opinion of being discussed.
Now, if you had linked to an article that said: "Harry forgives Lennon". A reasonable question to ask is who is Harry and why are we interested in what Harry does?
So, what difference does it make what "the Vatican" does, when you cannot even tell us what "the Vatican" is?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 7:29:11 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
what?? I do not believe anyone goes chasing down the articles to the links they provide to check for the accuracy... LOL I have already said I cannot read latin. SO why don't you go look it up for yourself if it is that important to you. I provided a link to the story. Other sources also carried this story.
You misunderstand my question, so let me rephrase it:
Why did you link to the article? What was so interesting about the article that made it worthy in your opinion of being discussed.
Now, if you had linked to an article that said: "Harry forgives Lennon". A reasonable question to ask is who is Harry and why are we interested in what Harry does?
So, what difference does it make what "the Vatican" does, when you cannot even tell us what "the Vatican" is?
To be honest with you it was because of John Lennon more so than the Vatican. Your too thin skin regarding the Vatican. I thought this is strange, why would the Vatican forgive someone who was not a RCC for a comment that was made 40 years ago and the man has been dead for over 20 years. I would have made the same comment if it was some protestant church. Get off the Vatican for a moment and look at it from a different light..ie "The Southern Baptist Convention forgives John Lennon for his comment he made 40 years ago."
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 7:43:20 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
I thought this is strange, why would the Vatican forgive someone who was not a RCC for a comment that was made 40 years ago and the man has been dead for over 20 years. I would have made the same comment if it was some protestant church. Get off the Vatican for a moment and look at it from a different light..ie "The Southern Baptist Convention forgives John Lennon for his comment he made 40 years ago."
Here is my problem. According to the article you linked, "the Vatican" actually did no such thing. If by the Vatican, we mean the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. What actually happened, is some newspaper editor wrote an editorial, and in the editorial, he supposedly "forgave" Lennon. Of course, we cannot see what was in the editorial, so we really don't know what was said and its context.
If the Southern Baptist Convention votes to forgive Lennon, then yes, we can say that the SBC forgave him. But if some baptist editor writes a column and says that he forgives him, we cannot say that the SBC forgave him.
In an earlier post, you claimed that "the Vatican" was arrogant for forgiving Lennon. Did you mean the hierarchy, or the newspaper editor? If it was the newspaper editor that you consider arrogant, then the question is why? As Christians are we called to hold people's sins against them? (of course, that assumes what he said was a sin, it might have been the truth, then it would have been sad, but not a sin).
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/26/2008 10:09:16 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
I thought this is strange, why would the Vatican forgive someone who was not a RCC for a comment that was made 40 years ago and the man has been dead for over 20 years. I would have made the same comment if it was some protestant church. Get off the Vatican for a moment and look at it from a different light..ie "The Southern Baptist Convention forgives John Lennon for his comment he made 40 years ago."
Here is my problem. According to the article you linked, "the Vatican" actually did no such thing. If by the Vatican, we mean the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. What actually happened, is some newspaper editor wrote an editorial, and in the editorial, he supposedly "forgave" Lennon. Of course, we cannot see what was in the editorial, so we really don't know what was said and its context.
If the Southern Baptist Convention votes to forgive Lennon, then yes, we can say that the SBC forgave him. But if some baptist editor writes a column and says that he forgives him, we cannot say that the SBC forgave him.
In an earlier post, you claimed that "the Vatican" was arrogant for forgiving Lennon. Did you mean the hierarchy, or the newspaper editor? If it was the newspaper editor that you consider arrogant, then the question is why? As Christians are we called to hold people's sins against them? (of course, that assumes what he said was a sin, it might have been the truth, then it would have been sad, but not a sin).
I am letting this one go. You seem to have a problem with someone questioning the vatican. If it was the SBC instead of the Vatican would you have questioned the accuracy of the article? Like I said previously there were other sources who wrote the same type of article. Like someone said earlier some people will argue about anything.
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/27/2008 7:15:35 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
I am letting this one go. You seem to have a problem with someone questioning the vatican.
Once again, what do you mean by "the vatican"? You claimed "the vatican" was arrogant, did you mean the Catholic Church as a body, or did you mean an newspaper editor? I have a problem with people not defining their terms, and then when asked steadfastly refusing to do so.
quote:
If it was the SBC instead of the Vatican would you have questioned the accuracy of the article?
If a newspaper editor of a SBC publication writes and editorial and people are that editorial to call the Southern Baptist Convention arrogant, you better believe I would be questioning the accuracy of the article.
Because, as a Christian, I am interested in the truth, and the truth trumps everything.
I do find it funny however, that people who normally think the media is biased, will give the media a free pass when it comes to the Catholic Church. So, my question to you is: Are you interested in the truth or are you just pushing an agenda?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/27/2008 8:25:46 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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It's really not that big of a deal in the big picture. Just sayin' I think it was an opinion piece to coordinate with the 40th anniversary of The White album.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/27/2008 11:20:43 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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Actually, here is an article that gets us closer to the truth:
Experts weigh in on "vatican" statement
Some notable quotes:
quote:
The recent comment touted by some media outlets as the Vatican’s forgiveness of Beatles legend John Lennon is not quite the papal pardon many think it to be.
In other words, perhaps Act29, you were a bit in too much of a rush to call "the vatican" arrogant.
quote:
As innocent as the newspaper’s statement was, a number of media outlets worldwide brought the statement into the spotlight with headlines proclaiming “Vatican ‘Forgives’ John Lennon,” “John Lennon Finally Forgiven by Vatican” and a few going as far as claiming that the Catholic Church or even the pope himself had finally forgiven Lennon.
In other words, the media is not infallible.
quote:
“So how did the story come about? Simple: the editor and two other colleagues, all Beatles fans, found themselves one day humming ‘Ob-la-di Ob-la-da life goes on bra…’ in the corridors of the Vatican-based newspaper,” Vinci reported after visiting the newsroom of L'Osservatore Romano.
And as the song was included in the Beatles’ White Album, which this Nov. 22 celebrated its 40th anniversary, the Vatican journalist thought it was a good opportunity to write something about the band.
So a simple editorial, written by someone who has no real authority except to run a newspaper gets misinterpreted as an official proclamation of the Vatican. And Act29, you fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Now, whom do you think is arrogant?
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RE: John Lennon is forgiven??? - 11/28/2008 6:16:36 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 605
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
This is an authentic quote.
He was killed a week later
The quote is authentic, but your claim is false. He made that statement in 1966. Here is a link to a Time magazine article which discusses the statement.
Lennon quote
quote:
God will not be mocked. 10 bucks says John Lennon is in Hell..
We can only hope that you are wrong. I certainly would never place a bet that someone is in hell. As Christians we should hope that everyone turn towards Christ and ask forgiveness. We don't know what the state of his soul is, I don't think anyone here has made any claims that he is in heaven, but a few have claimed that he is in hell. What does that tell you about Christians?
Whatever he said, it is our duty to forgive him. So perhaps the Vatican editors have set a good example for us.
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