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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 11/24/2008 4:33:20 PM
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myka
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My children have gone through public schools for their entire school years so far, but I also have close family members who have had their children in Christian schools for their entire school careers.
Personally, I have been very pleased with the quality of education that my children have received in public schools -- my oldest is now in a couple of AP classes (science and math) and looking forward to having more next year. Also, I have some concerns about the quality of education that my family members have received at the Christian schools. They were not held to the same standards that my children were in public school; there was a lot more leniency given in terms of getting things in on time, and grading procedures were certainly not as strict. The curriculum was certainly slanted toward a particular Christian perspective and did not really give other options. (there are a variety of opinions within Christianity about certain subjects)
The Christian school was also not really equipped to handle any special needs of students (not just LD, but SLT, OT, PT, etc), so this particular family has their younger child in public school where they can receive help in the areas that they need.
We did run into some 'anti-religious' sentiment on the part of teachers, but we also knew what was permissible within the public schools and what was not. Also, we consider ourselves as our children's primary teachers and formational support system.
We have always been a family that teaches critical thinking skills and how our faith influences our thought processes.
I've had friends whose children have gone to private schools that were not 'Christian' and the quality of their education was much better, in my mind.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 11/24/2008 4:57:47 PM
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KuKu
Posts: 999
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From: Somewhere out there
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Also, we consider ourselves as our children's primary teachers and formational support system.
These were the kids who succeeded in our school- under any curriculum. The number of times "God" is used in a text means nothing if God means nothing, if families haven't taken it upon themselves to make God"important to the child. Otherwise, it's simply more information to learn, spit back, and never remember later in life.
As much as some find blaming the texts, or the teachers, for a child's education- a dirty, hungry, angry, hurt child is going to struggle to learn, no matter how many times God is mentioned during the day. Young Earth, "Christian founding fathers" (masons, etc), reading 3 Bible verses for 2 days is 6 Bible Verses all together, are meaningless information to a child who can't find God outside of a text.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 11/25/2008 9:48:35 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
Article written by William Bennett
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NmY5NzFkZDdiMDM1NzNjM2IzNTcyODY4OWIzNjVhYzg=&w=MA==
From the History News Network (this one is long)
http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/52043.html
From the Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/what-do-students-know-abo_b_48795.html
Interesting, though not really surprising. I wonder how much of this has to do with our relatively young society (thus, no deep old cultural heritage), our lack of neighbors (no need to learn about other countries and cultures if we don't interact with them), and our tech-based economy (don't need history to get a job).
I do take a bit of an issue with one of the articles (Bennet's?) saying that people are getting progressively dumber. I don't think we're getting dumber; I think our interests are shifting and for most people, politics and politicians are becoming less and less apparently relevant to their daily lives.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 11/25/2008 11:09:06 AM
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macokjc
Posts: 291
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quote:
I do take a bit of an issue with one of the articles (Bennet's?) saying that people are getting progressively dumber.
I don't think that people are getting progressively dumber either. However, I do think that the standard of education is severely lacking across the board. It's not a private vs. public problem, but a national problem.
This is only my viewpoint - but I think history is so important because without learning about the mistakes of the past, society is bound to repeat them in the future.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/6/2008 4:58:11 PM
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TeachingforHim
Posts: 77
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Oshawa, Ontario
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This is a very interesting discussion!
I currently teach in a Christian school. We use a number of 'non-Christian' curriculum and 'Christian' curriculum. I'm actually wondering what deems a curriculum as such, but that discussion will just lead me into a whole other area. Our science/social studies curriculum is from a 'Christian' publisher, but is based upon the provicial education ministry guidelines. Bible is obviously Christian curriculum, and music is a combination of both. We use 'non-Christian' curriculum for language, art, math, French, geography, history, etc... The entire perspective, however, is different. My job as a Christian school teacher is to teach my students from a Christian perspective, with a Christian worldview. Whether or not I have 'Christian' curriculum doesn't matter. If I teach my students a purely 'Christian' curriculum, but have not love (or a Christian perpective) I am only making noise!
I believe that it's essential to use a combination of 'Christian' and 'non-Christian' curriculum. How are our children going to learn to use discernment if we only feed them one type of food? The point of education is to enable our children to live in the world as it is, not to live in the 'Christian' world. There is much Truth in many curriculum that doesn't mention the name of Jesus, and there are a number of curriculum that mention the name Jesus that I will never teach in my classroom because I believe they lack Truth.
_____________________________
"Is prayer your steering wheel or your spare tire?"
~Corrie ten Boom~
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 12:04:42 AM
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ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
BJU science and A Beka both believe that true science is that which can be observed, proved without a doubt, and repeated. Evolution and creation both do not fall into that category.
Can you provide examples of science that has been proven “without a doubt?”
Science includes the description of observations. It includes the process of seeking out an understanding of how things work. I don’t know of any science that can be “proved without a doubt.” Proofs may occur in logic, mathematics, and whiskey, but science deals in theories, hypotheses, and evidence drawn from experiments and observations. Let’s take gravity as an example. We can show that if something solid is tossed up in the air it will fall back to earth. Science will take that observation and describe it, usually in mathematical terms. With more understanding, scientists will make predictions. Newton developed the law of universal gravitation. Guess what? The law wasn’t so universal after all. For example, it couldn’t explain some perturbations in the orbit of Mercury. Later, Einstein came up with a better theory, general relativity, which accounted for those perturbations. Science is dynamic. Scientists are always seeking out a better understanding of God’s creation (whether they believe in Him or not).
So has gravitation been proven? What exactly is it? Saying that objects fall back to earth is not “scientific proof.” Can you place gravity in a beaker and observe it? No, but we can see how things interact and ascribe that behavior to something called gravity.
BTW, I read some of the stuff that Dan linked to and it was pretty scary. No wonder many Christian parents are afraid to let their children study physics and other hard sciences at the college level. They may discover that they were duped by their textbooks and by association, Christianity.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 7:01:01 AM
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JuliaHop
Posts: 600
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quote:
They may discover that they were duped by their textbooks and by association, Christianity.
I can't tell from your posts...are you for or against textbooks printed by Christian publishing firms?
I will take the books from BJU and ABeka...they teach the scientific facts (and do a great job providing the information) and teach from a Christian perspective while informing the student of both sides of the arguments.
I am a firm believer in students having access to textbooks while they are being taught. So many schools today have tossed out the books for a complete hands on approach that students have no grasp of why they are doing the hands on projects (and are therefore very subject to accepting only the idealogical viewpoint of their teacher). I think that this is why so many students have a weak understanding of science.
_____________________________
For God so loved the World, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 4:25:28 PM
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ot4christ
Posts: 185
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From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
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As long as the material is accurate (as much as reasonable), it shouldn't matter if it comes from a "Christian" or secular source. Each text needs to be judged on its own merit. My comment was in regard to the link provided by Dan. That was an example of a text not being accurate. Honestly, is there any such thing as christian math or christian grammar? How about Christian Science? Oh yeah, that one does exist.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JuliaHop
quote:
They may discover that they were duped by their textbooks and by association, Christianity.
I can't tell from your posts...are you for or against textbooks printed by Christian publishing firms?
I will take the books from BJU and ABeka...they teach the scientific facts (and do a great job providing the information) and teach from a Christian perspective while informing the student of both sides of the arguments.
I am a firm believer in students having access to textbooks while they are being taught. So many schools today have tossed out the books for a complete hands on approach that students have no grasp of why they are doing the hands on projects (and are therefore very subject to accepting only the idealogical viewpoint of their teacher). I think that this is why so many students have a weak understanding of science.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 5:39:34 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ot4christ
How about Christian Science? Oh yeah, that one does exist.
And Christian history, don't forget about that.
I really liked your earlier description of the nature of science. Science is not faith. We have faith in the existence of Christ and God the Father and Spirit, and They remain unchanged throughout all of time.
Science is ever changing. We observe, develop theories, constantly test and challenge those theories and develop new ones as new information becomes available. But to take a faith-based fact and basically try to work backwards trying to prove it seems very iffy to me.
My faith tells me that God is responsible for the existence of the Universe. Nothing exists outside of His divine will. But the how and when type questions are better left to science.
My husband was the one who showed me the second creation story in the Bible, and the discrepancies with the first. We do not believe that the Word contradicts itself, merely that neither story is meant to be taken literally. (as in six 24-hour days that took place 6,000 years ago) We interpret the message of those stories is to teach us that God brought the Universe into being, by His will and design and no other.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 7:51:22 PM
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ot4christ
Posts: 185
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From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: ot4christ
How about Christian Science? Oh yeah, that one does exist.
And Christian history, don't forget about that.
I really liked your earlier description of the nature of science. Science is not faith. We have faith in the existence of Christ and God the Father and Spirit, and They remain unchanged throughout all of time.
Science is ever changing. We observe, develop theories, constantly test and challenge those theories and develop new ones as new information becomes available. But to take a faith-based fact and basically try to work backwards trying to prove it seems very iffy to me.
My faith tells me that God is responsible for the existence of the Universe. Nothing exists outside of His divine will. But the how and when type questions are better left to science.
My husband was the one who showed me the second creation story in the Bible, and the discrepancies with the first. We do not believe that the Word contradicts itself, merely that neither story is meant to be taken literally. (as in six 24-hour days that took place 6,000 years ago) We interpret the message of those stories is to teach us that God brought the Universe into being, by His will and design and no other.
The "Christian Science" I meant was the "Mary Baker Eddy" kind. Boy, I guess I need to be clearer in my posts!
I think it's great that you and your family have an understanding on creation, even if it's not my interpretation. But that is a very hot topic and, before people get in a tizzy, I just thought I'd remind everyone that there is an entire forum for Science & Origins discussions.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 8:19:42 PM
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stampinlady
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From: Northern IL
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My dd entered 9th grade this year at our public school and had been at a christian one since 6th. She tested in the acceleratd range for English and Science and almost made it into Geometry, infact she says Algebra 1 is too easy for her. The christian school used Saxon and a seperate curriculum for ALgebra and Bob Jones for Science. I wasn't crazy about Bob Jones or Saxon, but she learned alot.
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Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 8:54:31 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3944
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You're quite right ot4christ. I do apologize for my post. I did not wish to stir up trouble.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 9:35:43 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JuliaHop
quote:
They may discover that they were duped by their textbooks and by association, Christianity.
I can't tell from your posts...are you for or against textbooks printed by Christian publishing firms?
I will take the books from BJU and ABeka...they teach the scientific facts (and do a great job providing the information) and teach from a Christian perspective while informing the student of both sides of the arguments.
Regarding ideology - Christian textbook publishers are at least as guilty of injecting ideology as anybody else. Sure, they may do a great job of describing how an exothermic reaction occurs or how the circulatory system functions, but as I pointed out earlier, when it comes to controversial issues, they choose ideology over fact. They don't have to agree with the Big Bang Theory or the Theory of Evolution, but honesty and proper scholarship should direct them to describing it accurately, yet they don't. It's pretty clear to me why this is and also why their philosophy of science is described the way it is and why it's ultimately flawed. It's because they're letting their agenda influence their curriculum. As far as informing students of both sides of the argument - I'd welcome an example if you can find one online, but the book I linked to did no such thing.
quote:
I am a firm believer in students having access to textbooks while they are being taught. So many schools today have tossed out the books for a complete hands on approach that students have no grasp of why they are doing the hands on projects (and are therefore very subject to accepting only the idealogical viewpoint of their teacher). I think that this is why so many students have a weak understanding of science.
Students have a weak understanding of science for a variety of reasons including poor teachers, poor support at home, lack of interest, lack of perceived applicability (i.e. when am I gonna use this?), social pressures. Books are good as a reference, but science isn't about reading facts out of a book; it's about discovery, exploration, asking questions, challenging what's "known," and ultimately finding out how our world works. If I were to pick between a science program that taught primarily from a book or one that taught primarily from observation and experimentation, I'd probably go for the one with the experimentation. Obviously, going to the extreme and eschewing one over the other is not the best way to do it, but I don't believe that a heavy focus on bookwork is necessarily the best way to teach the scientific method or the best way to get kids interested in science.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/12/2008 10:40:31 PM
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JuliaHop
Posts: 600
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
but I don't believe that a heavy focus on bookwork is necessarily the best way to teach the scientific method or the best way to get kids interested in science.
I agree that you need to grab a child's attention, however, without the "book" knowledge (the facts and information needed to learn on ones own) the hands on knowledge gained is very limited and of little use. A child can plant all of the seeds in soil that he wants but without a factual understanding of how that plant develops he can't truly understand the growth process. He simply learns to follow directions and do as told...he doesn't have the basic information needed to go forward on his own.
_____________________________
For God so loved the World, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/14/2008 10:40:39 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
I was raised in public schools from 3rd grade on, and I never saw anything that lead me to believe that publishers were biased against religion, just neutral to it. [...]
Certainly I never saw anything indicated that academics were compromised because the publishers had some sort of anti-Christian political agenda. [...] I really don't see evidence of any secular conspiracy.
Well, I have seen college level textbooks in geology and in education courses for future teachers that are very biased. The geology bias was to be expected, and there are adequate rebuttals available.
It was the teacher's ed courses that were disturbing because they were promoting socialist psychology so subtlety. I don't think many 20 year-olds (who by and large comprise the market for these texts) would pick up on just how much bias has filtered in because they have grown up in a post-modern world and consider a lot of such thought as "normal."
As for history textbooks at the high school level, if the Christian ones run off the road to the right, the secular ones seem to be equally as bad about going into the gutter on the left. A lot of the distortion in the Christian books seems to come from intentional overcompensation to prove a viewpoint. In the secular texts, the distortion is often caused by omission—they summarize so much material in such a short space that the reader cannot get an accurate picture. The topics they do choose to cover are often ones that support a liberal worldview.
One of the easier ways to see bias is by looking at older textbooks. For instance, a topic like nuclear energy was taught very differently fifty years ago. Atomic structure has not changed, but the politics have.
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RE: Christian Schools and their Textbooks - 12/14/2008 11:04:09 PM
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myka
Posts: 818
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quote:
A child can plant all of the seeds in soil that he wants but without a factual understanding of how that plant develops he can't truly understand the growth process.
Experimentation is about more than just planting seeds in the soil. If it is done properly, the child will be observing the plant growth and recording that process along the way. My kids did tadpoles (drawing pictures of the tadpole development) and plants (drawing and measuring/recording observations) in their early elementary years.
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