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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/22/2008 10:15:16 PM
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cchsfcaleader
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i think something that is going on that is that i live in a diferent area than you. i live in a place with alot of babtist that only realy agree with anything but babtist stuff. you apear to be living in a good area with very few hipocrits. i live in an area with a whole lot of them. so yah i think that the area you live in is waht is making you that it is uncommon for this to be happening.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/23/2008 1:47:06 AM
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Bluethread
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You really need to work on your writing skills. It is almost impossible to figure out what you are saying. No, I do not live in an area where people are generally receiptive to the idea that interpretations of the Scriptures that do not line up with doctrines of their denomination are worth discussing. That is even more reason not to trust my life to leaders in my city. There are a few people outside of my family with which I have a close relationship and I do my best to keep lines of communication open withn others that are receiptive. However, when the revelution comes, I think we will all be surpised at how few friends we reall have. That is why I believe we need to seek to live in peace with those around us even if we disagree on things.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/23/2008 4:00:53 PM
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PastorPatricia
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Denominations are not sin, they are different ways of worshipping and sometimes interpreting scripture. As long as we believe in Christ and him crucified and believe in the basics of the faith we all belong to the church universal, the body of Christ. Denominations are largely the way we "do church". I'm an Anglican and I love the quiet, meditative worship in the Anglican liturgy but can also appreciate a service in a Pentecostal church or a Baptist church. I pastor a "Community Church " and it's order of service is different than the Anglican church but is Christ centered. We all have different needs and these are meet in a variety of service styles.
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But be sure to fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you. Is. 12:24
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/23/2008 10:21:07 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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PastorPatricia said: quote:
As long as we believe in Christ and him crucified and believe in the basics of the faith we all belong to the church universal, the body of Christ. That is an interesting standard. Denominations are an interesting subject. In essence they are "brand names" of Christianized philosophies. Christ prayer was for unity, not union, there is a huge difference. Denominations are "unions" but as a whole they are not united. There is no doubt that difference in interpretation of various Scriptures have resulted in denominations being created. The end result is that we have been desensitized over the years to "correct" interpretation of Scripture. The "essentials" of Scripture have been reduced to opinions. "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God." is the rock on which Jesus said he would build his church. The depth of that statement, belief and truth supersedes what we have dismissed it to mean. It transcends opinion, isms, creeds and interpretation. The standard of Christianity, Faith and Practice is the Bible.
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My New Blog site Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing. -Rich Mullins
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/24/2008 12:14:22 AM
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OleFitzHi
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Settle down there big fella! Having different denominations with different worship styles, songs, flavor of preaching, way of administrating can have its positive side. It is great that we have a variety of places for people to worship. Wouldn't it be terrible if there were only one church to worship in? If one group of churches uses prayer cloths, then why should all be forced to? You can use them in your denomination and I can refrain from using them in mine. quote:
ORIGINAL: cchsfcaleader DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN!!! they devide the Body of Christ so they are sin. we need to get over our denominations and accept that just because someone in your church hasnt been given certain gifts doesnt mean they arent real. anything God used in the Bible God can use now. Prayer clothes are something that is one of the biggest desputes. the annointing on Peter had gave his clothes the ability to heal people. the annointing is what healed people not the clothes. Faith Healing is another one. the key thing about this one is the FAITH part, and unless God tells you a healing isnt in his will then the Healing is in his will. some will take more time then others because it is is God's time and not our's but the healing will still happen. we all are trying to reach people for Christ and in the Bible it says the disples were known by the sighns and wonders they preformed. that is how people will know we are Christians. Lets get over our hipocracy and be like Christ. that is what being a Christian is all about being Christ-like. that means healings, Going into palce where prostistutes, homosexuals, thiefs (or gangs) and preach to them and if we Get killed doing it someone can raise us fromt he dead just like Lazureth. We need to join together accept that God works outside of our denomination's doctrine. we are a body that means Babtist may be a foot and have one gift and Methodist may be hands and that is why God uses us in different ways. lets work together and fight as one body lead by God and not our denomination's doctrine
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/24/2008 9:50:57 AM
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rolling
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If we all worked out 1Cor.12, then He would be in full charge...all would be well, unity would insue.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/24/2008 2:19:26 PM
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HardKnox
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Sometimes separations are necessary for unity as int he case of Paul and Barnabas. When I was a Baptist, I was constantly arguing over distinctive doctrines. Now, that I'm no longer Baptist, I get along great with Baptists.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/25/2008 8:07:03 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HardKnox Sometimes separations are necessary for unity as int he case of Paul and Barnabas. When I was a Baptist, I was constantly arguing over distinctive doctrines. Now, that I'm no longer Baptist, I get along great with Baptists. quote:
Sometimes separations are necessary for unity as int he case of Paul and Barnabas. When I was a Baptist, I was constantly arguing over distinctive doctrines. Now, that I'm no longer Baptist, I get along great with Baptists. lol
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My New Blog site Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing. -Rich Mullins
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/25/2008 8:48:31 AM
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greatdivide46
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I agree that denominationalism is probably not what Christ had in mind when He said He would build His church, but I do think that since we have denominations we should learn to work with people across denominational lines. I may attend a Baptist church, but that doesn't make me a Baptist. I am a Christian first, foremost, and always, and my theological thinking comes from the Bible, not from some Baptist Church creed.
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greatdivide46 SFC, USA (Ret) The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/25/2008 9:10:39 AM
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e.barrett
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I'm with greatdivide - I have to think it pains God to see so many Christian denominations. It would be great if we all agreed on what Christianity means. But people see too many things differently, just look at the Calvinism/Arminianism thread. And so we end up with denominations. The biggest "problem" in my mind with denominations is it confuses the message we send to non-Christians. Which is why, I think, people who aren't familiar denominational issues ask questions such as, "are Catholics considered Christians?" Any time we lose focus on the main points of Jesus' teachings, we run the risk of not connecting a non-Christian to Jesus (because we're too busy explaining other side topics). Is this the biggest challenge facing Christians? Not by a long shot. But I do think it's an issue.
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R3 - a blog devoted to understanding how to live out a life of faith Visit it at www.r3blog.net
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/25/2008 5:54:14 PM
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His_will_i_am
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The word of God actually has quite a bit to say about the formation of denominations. It's also quite clear concerning the types of people who create and promote them, as well as how the Lord feels about them. Shouldn't we be asking the question "What does the Lord have to say about denominations?"
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And he will restore the understanding of the ancestors to their descendants and turn the hearts of the descendants back to their ancestors lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/25/2008 9:45:35 PM
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OleFitzHi
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What does the Lord have to say about denominations?
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/26/2008 9:21:10 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OleFitzHi What does the Lord have to say about denominations? (Joh 4:23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (Joh 4:24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Thanks RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion Read the first chapter of my latest book here; http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/26/2008 6:34:31 PM
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His_will_i_am
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1 Corinthians 11:17-19: Now in this I declare unto you, I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. The word ‘heresy’ is translated from the Greek word ‘heiresis’, which means sect (religious party), or faction. In the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry, heresy took many forms. There were the sects of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Herodians, Essenes, and a host of others. Today the term ‘heresy’ is no longer used to identify sects. In the Body of Christ, we literally have thousands of such divisions; Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Four Square, Assemblies of God, Methodists, etc… Galatians 5:19-21: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness revellings, and such like; of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. We are told in plain language that not only are those who do such things walking in the flesh, but also that those who do such things won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. This should be cause enough to separate one’s self from all such divisions. As a matter of fact, we are commanded to disfellowship with all those who promote heresy, divisions, or schisms within the Body. Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Furthermore, we are commanded not to form groups which set disciples apart from each other. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? Clearly, not only are there supposed to be no divisions, but there is supposed to be one universal doctrine, the pure doctrine of Christ. The apostles clearly taught this. Can we find any such divisions which were praised or even merely condoned in Scripture? The answer is no, we can’t. Are Catholics to be found in Scripture? Are Baptists named? How about Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, etc…? The only such term to be found associated with the Disciples of Christ is that of ‘Christian’; which means one born of Christ. Isn’t this the only distinction that any disciple should allow one’s self to accept? In addition there are more complaints and issues that our Lord has with our heresies. Any and all such divisions work directly against the Unity of Christ, purpose of Christ, and are proof of sin within the Body of Christ. John 17:20-23: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and they in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 10:16: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. Another thing to remember is that God isn't the author of confusion, which is exactly what denominations create. There are so many denominations, preaching so many different variations of the Christ that people who are truly seeking the truth don't know what to believe and end up getting sucked into error at best and at worse not even coming to saving faith in the one true Lord.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/26/2008 11:43:06 PM
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OleFitzHi
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What do you propose then? quote:
ORIGINAL: His_will_i_am 1 Corinthians 11:17-19: Now in this I declare unto you, I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. The word ‘heresy’ is translated from the Greek word ‘heiresis’, which means sect (religious party), or faction. In the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry, heresy took many forms. There were the sects of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Herodians, Essenes, and a host of others. Today the term ‘heresy’ is no longer used to identify sects. In the Body of Christ, we literally have thousands of such divisions; Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Four Square, Assemblies of God, Methodists, etc… Galatians 5:19-21: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness revellings, and such like; of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. We are told in plain language that not only are those who do such things walking in the flesh, but also that those who do such things won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. This should be cause enough to separate one’s self from all such divisions. As a matter of fact, we are commanded to disfellowship with all those who promote heresy, divisions, or schisms within the Body. Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Furthermore, we are commanded not to form groups which set disciples apart from each other. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? Clearly, not only are there supposed to be no divisions, but there is supposed to be one universal doctrine, the pure doctrine of Christ. The apostles clearly taught this. Can we find any such divisions which were praised or even merely condoned in Scripture? The answer is no, we can’t. Are Catholics to be found in Scripture? Are Baptists named? How about Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, etc…? The only such term to be found associated with the Disciples of Christ is that of ‘Christian’; which means one born of Christ. Isn’t this the only distinction that any disciple should allow one’s self to accept? In addition there are more complaints and issues that our Lord has with our heresies. Any and all such divisions work directly against the Unity of Christ, purpose of Christ, and are proof of sin within the Body of Christ. John 17:20-23: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and they in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 10:16: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. Another thing to remember is that God isn't the author of confusion, which is exactly what denominations create. There are so many denominations, preaching so many different variations of the Christ that people who are truly seeking the truth don't know what to believe and end up getting sucked into error at best and at worse not even coming to saving faith in the one true Lord.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 2:17:09 PM
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His_will_i_am
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I propose that people not only get to know the word of God, but get to know His ways. I propose that we walk away from our own opinions and line up with His way of thinking. I propose that His people walk away from their man-made organizations and return to being a part of a family, regardless of their locale. I propose that His people learn to love the truth and change when they realize that they aren't walking in it. In all, I propose that we do exactly what He says; REPENT.
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And he will restore the understanding of the ancestors to their descendants and turn the hearts of the descendants back to their ancestors lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:07:29 PM
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MrFribbles
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His_will_i_am, The thing is, your idea of God's way, and my idea of God's way, might be different, and we both might be able to back up our views with Scripture. We can't just say "Do it God's way!" if there's disagreement over what God's way is.
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You're a door without a key, A field without a fence. You've made a holy fool of me, And I've thanked you ever since. - Aaron Weiss
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:28:21 PM
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cchsfcaleader
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if we both follow God then there will be no different way.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:31:09 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
if we both follow God then there will be no different way. There might be, if God has called us to serve Him in different ways. I've heard many, many missionary speakers tell me that the only real way to serve God is to go overseas and preach the gospel. I've heard speakers tell me that if I don't speak in tongues, I can't really worship God. I've heard speakers tell me that if I don't raise up my hands in worship, I'm not really praising him. I have no doubt that, in some way, these people were following God. But they tried to make me follow God in their way, which was not the way He has called me to follow Him. So, yes, there will be different ways.
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You're a door without a key, A field without a fence. You've made a holy fool of me, And I've thanked you ever since. - Aaron Weiss
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:34:37 PM
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His_will_i_am
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quote:
The thing is, your idea of God's way, and my idea of God's way, might be different, and we both might be able to back up our views with Scripture. We can't just say "Do it God's way!" if there's disagreement over what God's way is. This is the rub, isn't it? When in disagreement over a topic, two parties may indeed have Scriptures which seemingly support their view as the correct one in our Lord's eyes. To simply say "Do it God's way" is an incomplete set of instructions. This is part of the reason why our Lord used demonstrations of power to support the message/instructions/mission which He sent a person to perform. Many people can't/don't recognize the difference between opinion and Truth. God's not going to bear witness to a person by healing the sick, turning water into wine, using articles of clothing to heal and deliver from demons, etc... if a person is speaking opinion, error, or from some other unstable foundation. This doesn't just apply to the words which a person speaks, but the examples which they set forth. Ultimately, it should come down to God demonstrating the truth of a person's words, purity of a persons understanding, or the righteousness of a persons ways through means of His own. After all, He was always sure to demonstrate His approval of those who He truly sent before and He's the same God now as He was then, isn't He?
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:39:13 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
it should come down to God demonstrating the truth of a person's words, purity of a persons understanding, or the righteousness of a persons ways through means of His own. After all, He was always sure to demonstrate His approval of those who He truly sent before and He's the same God now as He was then, isn't He? See, this is what I'm talking about. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that signs and wonders are the only way a view is shown to be correct - this is your understanding, your tradition, being proposed as the way to do things. And it's not a bad way! But it's not the only way. Where in Scripture does it say we should all do things the exact same way, anyhow? Where does it say God demands not only unity, but uniformity?
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You're a door without a key, A field without a fence. You've made a holy fool of me, And I've thanked you ever since. - Aaron Weiss
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:39:14 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote:
if we both follow God then there will be no different way. There might be, if God has called us to serve Him in different ways. I've heard many, many missionary speakers tell me that the only real way to serve God is to go overseas and preach the gospel. I've heard speakers tell me that if I don't speak in tongues, I can't really worship God. I've heard speakers tell me that if I don't raise up my hands in worship, I'm not really praising him. I have no doubt that, in some way, these people were following God. But they tried to make me follow God in their way, which was not the way He has called me to follow Him. So, yes, there will be different ways. If these people state that this is what they believe the Scriptures tell them, then there is no need for division. We can always go back to the point we last agreed and have fellowship at that point. However, if one insists that what has been revealed to them is essential then there is no room for fellowship with those who do not agree. That is why, in my opinion, we need to be careful whenever we adopt dogma. It can protect us from the adversary, but it can also frighten and scare off the neighbors.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:42:36 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
If these people state that this is what they believe the Scriptures tell them, then there is no need for division. We can always go back to the point we last agreed and have fellowship at that point. However, if one insists that what has been revealed to them is essential then there is no room for fellowship with those who do not agree. That is why, in my opinion, we need to be careful whenever we adopt dogma I quite agree. Which is why I wish people would re-read Romans 14, and realize that a lot of the issues they make a big deal out really come down to personal opinion/conviction.
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You're a door without a key, A field without a fence. You've made a holy fool of me, And I've thanked you ever since. - Aaron Weiss
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:43:29 PM
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His_will_i_am
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quote:
if we both follow God then there will be no different way. 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. This set of Scriptures demonstrates that to each member of the Body has gifts and calling, but that they all don't operate in the same way. For instance, my gifting of discerning of spirits operates differently than other people with the same gifting. Some people can 'visually' see into the spirit, where others can 'feel' different presences. Some poeple receive the word of knowledge coupled with the gift of discerning of spirits, whereas others don't. But even though these people operate in the same function, yet in differing ways it's still through the Spirit's provision.
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And he will restore the understanding of the ancestors to their descendants and turn the hearts of the descendants back to their ancestors lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
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RE: DENOMINATIONS ARE SIN - 11/29/2008 3:59:54 PM
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His_will_i_am
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quote:
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that signs and wonders are the only way a view is shown to be correct - this is your understanding, your tradition, being proposed as the way to do things. You're right, no where in Scripture does it say that signs and wonders are the only way. But neither did I. All I put forth was one method which God used to demonstrate the difference between truth and error, corruption and holiness. It was neither my "understanding" (though it is a part) and certainly not my "tradition", whatever that means?.?. What you just did was demonstrate how people have the tendency to read into or add things to what is actually spoken, or typed in this case. This is one of the places which different understandings/interpretations come from. There is such a thing as pure doctrine, pure understanding (and I don't mean complete). The Scriptures are quite clear concerning this. The problem is that there are so many opinions, doctrines, influences, and confusion within the Body that even if there were people who were pure in their understanding that others couldn't recognize the fact due to the holes which they have in their own walk. It might be part of the reason why Elijah, my Lord Yeshua, His apostles, etc... walked in so much power. I was posting further while you were posting your own response, and as you can see from my post that we're in agreement that there's a difference between unity and uniformity.
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And he will restore the understanding of the ancestors to their descendants and turn the hearts of the descendants back to their ancestors lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
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