My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day we were married.
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My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day we ... - 11/21/2008 3:21:12 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
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1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:23:55 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
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Good for you?
Seriously, not trying to sound cynical. But if you only held hands and felt even that was "sinful" then that is fine. If that was your (and hers?) conviction, then awesome.
But my wife and I did hold hands, did kiss but always prayed for God to grace us with the guarding of our testimonies.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:28:35 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Good for you?
Seriously, not trying to sound cynical. But if you only held hands and felt even that was "sinful" then that is fine. If that was your (and hers?) conviction, then awesome.
But my wife and I did hold hands, did kiss but always prayed for God to grace us with the guarding of our testimonies.
If you think I was looking for an "atta-boy" you missed the point. The end does not justify the means. What is the right way to persue a mate? Paul says it is *good* to not even touch a woman. If that is the case, is praying before you touch a woman that you aren't married to, really a good thing?
I held hands and kissed on the cheek w/ my wife before marriage, and according to perfect Godliness, and Biblical rightness... it was wrong. There was a better way, that is good.
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 11/21/2008 3:35:18 PM >
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:37:24 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1979
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
I think you took it WAY too far, in my book. Seriously, by that standard, if you just shake hands with someone, you're on the verge of committing adultry.
I see nothing wrong with kissing or holding hands and such. God has made it clear what He considers adultry, and those don't fall into that category.
That said, if this is what worked for you and your wife, so be it and more power to you. You didn't do anything wrong by doing nothing but holding hands, and you clearly didn't commit adultry. To me, it just seems extreme.
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:39:10 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
You are interpreting verse 1 incorrectly. "to touch a woman" was an OT phrase that meant to marry. If you read further down you will realize that he was saying it is better to stay single as he was, but if you cannot, go ahead and marry.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:43:13 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
You are interpreting verse 1 incorrectly. "to touch a woman" was an OT phrase that meant to marry. If you read further down you will realize that he was saying it is better to stay single as he was, but if you cannot, go ahead and marry.
I submit to the possibility that it is possible I am interpretting it wrongly. Can you provide proof of that what you say is true about "to not touch" meaning "to marry"?
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 3:57:56 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1979
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
I submit to the possibility that it is possible I am interpretting it wrongly. Can you provide proof of that what you say is true about "to not touch" meaning "to marry"?
What do you want for proof? If you want to look in the Bible, Jesus kisses Peter, but that doesn't mean that the two were in a sexual relationship. He also has physical contact with women, though nothing in a sexual manner either.
This is part of the problem with continually interpretting the Bible literally, word for word.
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 4:05:14 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
You are interpreting verse 1 incorrectly. "to touch a woman" was an OT phrase that meant to marry. If you read further down you will realize that he was saying it is better to stay single as he was, but if you cannot, go ahead and marry.
I submit to the possibility that it is possible I am interpretting it wrongly. Can you provide proof of that what you say is true about "to not touch" meaning "to marry"?
Matthew Henry: "The apostle comes now, as a faithful and skilful casuist, to answer some cases of conscience which the Corinthians had proposed to him. Those were things whereof they wrote to him, v. 1. As the lips of ministers should keep knowledge, so the people should ask the law at their mouths. The apostle was as ready to resolve as they were to propose their doubts. In the former chapter, he warns them to avoid fornication; here he gives some directions about marriage, the remedy God had appointed for it. He tells them in general, I. That it was good, in that juncture of time at least, to abstain from marriage altogether: It is good for a man not to touch a woman (not to take her to wife), by good here not understanding what is so conformable to the mind and will of God as if to do otherwise were sin, an extreme into which many of the ancients have run in favour of celibacy and virginity. "
Again, you have to look at the context here. At the end of the chapter, he says: "9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 4:20:57 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
You are interpreting verse 1 incorrectly. "to touch a woman" was an OT phrase that meant to marry. If you read further down you will realize that he was saying it is better to stay single as he was, but if you cannot, go ahead and marry.
I submit to the possibility that it is possible I am interpretting it wrongly. Can you provide proof of that what you say is true about "to not touch" meaning "to marry"?
Matthew Henry: "The apostle comes now, as a faithful and skilful casuist, to answer some cases of conscience which the Corinthians had proposed to him. Those were things whereof they wrote to him, v. 1. As the lips of ministers should keep knowledge, so the people should ask the law at their mouths. The apostle was as ready to resolve as they were to propose their doubts. In the former chapter, he warns them to avoid fornication; here he gives some directions about marriage, the remedy God had appointed for it. He tells them in general, I. That it was good, in that juncture of time at least, to abstain from marriage altogether: It is good for a man not to touch a woman (not to take her to wife), by good here not understanding what is so conformable to the mind and will of God as if to do otherwise were sin, an extreme into which many of the ancients have run in favour of celibacy and virginity. "
Again, you have to look at the context here. At the end of the chapter, he says: "9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
I believe it is possible that it could mean to touch sexually, but I don't see how it could mean to take as a wife. The context doesn't persuade me to believe "to touch" means "to marry". If that's what Paul meant, he could have said "to marry"... as he said "to marry" later when that is what he meant. I'll look into it though, thanks.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 4:41:14 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
-----------
1 Corinthians 7:1-3
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
You are interpreting verse 1 incorrectly. "to touch a woman" was an OT phrase that meant to marry. If you read further down you will realize that he was saying it is better to stay single as he was, but if you cannot, go ahead and marry.
I submit to the possibility that it is possible I am interpretting it wrongly. Can you provide proof of that what you say is true about "to not touch" meaning "to marry"?
Matthew Henry: "The apostle comes now, as a faithful and skilful casuist, to answer some cases of conscience which the Corinthians had proposed to him. Those were things whereof they wrote to him, v. 1. As the lips of ministers should keep knowledge, so the people should ask the law at their mouths. The apostle was as ready to resolve as they were to propose their doubts. In the former chapter, he warns them to avoid fornication; here he gives some directions about marriage, the remedy God had appointed for it. He tells them in general, I. That it was good, in that juncture of time at least, to abstain from marriage altogether: It is good for a man not to touch a woman (not to take her to wife), by good here not understanding what is so conformable to the mind and will of God as if to do otherwise were sin, an extreme into which many of the ancients have run in favour of celibacy and virginity. "
Again, you have to look at the context here. At the end of the chapter, he says: "9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
I believe it is possible that it could mean to touch sexually, but I don't see how it could mean to take as a wife. The context doesn't persuade me to believe "to touch" means "to marry". If that's what Paul meant, he could have said "to marry"... as he said "to marry" later when that is what he meant. I'll look into it though, thanks.
He used it because it was Jewish terminology and he knew they would understand it. It's like if you said to me, "It's better that they don't get hitched," I'd know exactly what you meant.
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. An Old-Testament phrase which means not to marry. -PNT
7:1 It is good for a man - Who is master of himself. Not to touch a women - That is, not to marry. So great and many are the advantages of a single life. - Wesley
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 4:43:32 PM
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MrFribbles
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Something else to consider - the statement, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman," is something the Corinthians had written to Paul. Paul is correcting their false assumption. Given the immediate context - that it is good for people to marry to avoid sexual immorality - it seems clear that Paul is correcting the false teaching that any sexual relation ("touching") is wrong.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 6:53:13 PM
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DerWeg
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Didn't Jesus kiss Mary Magdalene?
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 7:06:22 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DerWeg
Didn't Jesus kiss Mary Magdalene?
Not that I know of....she kissed Jesus' feet and washed them with her tears.
Oh, please don't tell me you're likening their encounter to anything sexual.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 7:17:16 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2080
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quote:
What do you think about this? Technically, as holiness and perfect godliness is concerned... I believe we went to far physically just by holding hands, and kissing on the cheek.
This is not what I 'think'. It is Who I know. God is a God of grace. He knows us. I don't measure myself by what I think, what I know, or what I did. I measure all by Him. And He loves me.  LL
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 8:48:49 PM
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buckifn
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I think there are bigger issues to worry about...like feeding the hungry, visiting those in prison, nursing homes, taking care of unwanted, abused, abandoned children, housing the homeless, esp. now that freezing temp. are here...and above all reaching the lost.
After all the above is done I might have to think about whether or not my wife and I kissed before we were married, but I doubt if it is something I'd bother with.
.....edited cuz I can't spel :)
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/21/2008 9:43:48 PM
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deermousie
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Good for you, D4nnyb0y02. I wish my husband and I had done this (or, rather, hadn't done this) before we married, although we were careful to always be in public, limited ourselves to nonpassionate kisses and were pretty boring by the world's standards. 
The word "touched" in the Greek means to "fasten to, or kindle a fire" according to Vine (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - the most used book in my small library of reference books). In further detail, he interprets 1 Cor. 7:1 as carnal intercourse - I assume that's 100 year old English for sexual intercourse. That the courts used to call rape "forced carnal knowledge" fits in with his times and lends credence to this interpretation.
The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament (Nestle Greek Text - long considered one of the most accurate extant MS) translated by Marshall/Phillips interprets that word as "touch."
(Extant just means it still exists - the original copies no longer exist. MS means manuscript. Yes, I used to have a pastor that taught this stuff. It was great!).
Kat_D is correct about what Matthew Henry said (a well-respected commentary that is another valuable book to own). For the first time, I disagree with him, but only in interpretation of the details. The context is, as he said, avoiding fornication (6 verses), then "it's not good to touch a woman" with sexual temptation given as the reasony why, and then 6 more verses go on to say once you're married then do have sex. Then you get the verses about "stay single if you can"). So the "don't marry" is intermediate context, not immediate, and doesn't fit the exact meaning of the avoiding fornication reasons. I looks like Paul kind of went on to a different but related subject. But that's my take, and I can't read the Greek, just look up singular words, so take this with a grain of salt.
All this to say, for a person who choses to avoid tempting themselves with a girl friend or fiancee, it sure looks to be leaning the same way God's Word does, and if I'm wrong, it sure doesn't hurt to not touch until marriage. JMHO
< Message edited by deermousie -- 11/21/2008 9:53:07 PM >
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/22/2008 8:20:06 AM
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nevaehs_gaze
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I believe you and your wife were within the biblical standards of courtship. I don't see any verse that mentions holding hands would be immoral.. nor would a kiss on the cheek if it was innocent as a brother and sister would kiss one another. Though, every couple is different.. what may be innocent for one, may lead to lust in another.
My husband and I had planned on waiting for our wedding day to share our first kisses with each other, but we didn't quite make it.. I admit I felt guilty - not for kissing him, but because I felt like I had broken a promise to God and let my friends down (who had supported us in our decision to wait).
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RE: My wife and I didn't kiss on the lips until the day... - 11/24/2008 1:49:39 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1979
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
Not that I know of....she kissed Jesus' feet and washed them with her tears.
Actually, that's only a tradition. Nobody knows if that was Mary Magdalene who did that, or not.
It wasn't until much later when one of the Popes declaired that the woman named Mary who washed the feet of Jesus with her tears and Mary Magdalene were one in the same. This is also where the idea of Mary Magdalene being a prostitute came from.
quote:
Didn't Jesus kiss Mary Magdalene?
Not in the Bible. That's part of one of the Gnostic Gospels, and (the Book of Mary Magdalene, if I'm not mistaken) and that one is one of the more obviously dubious Gnostic Gospels that was quickly discarded during the formation of the Bible.
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