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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/28/2008 8:37:05 PM
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tomhillbilly
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Oh i wanted to add also that when i did it the kettle was hanging from a chain and was unsteady when people put money in. another of the rules was to thank each and every person who donated. I went a step further and when anyone approached i would hold and steady the kettle for them. Im not sure that this was 'in the rules' but it seemed like common sense and a nice touch to me.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/5/2008 4:54:42 PM
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archaeologist2
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i really do not care who rings the bells, i find them all annoying. i would love to take the bells and melt them down and have them used as paperweights or something.
**this is just a personal opinion on the act of bell ringing and does not take away from the purpose of the work.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/5/2008 6:46:23 PM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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It is amazing how we can come to “own” what God does in and through our lives.
Pride, the home address of all sin, is such a subtle, insidious, and powerful enemy. It seeks to flaunt itself at every opportunity. Ignore it, and it rushes in to occupy center stage.
Pride loves to take advantage of our passion and zeal for Christ, perverting it and turning it into a billboard for our “spiritual” significance and success.
In the early times of my work in ministry – pride ambushed me more than once. It usually happened after I preached or had an opportunity to demonstrate my knowledge of Scripture or my leadership “for Christ”.
Often I couldn’t handle the compliments and recognition. Then God would lovingly and graciously allow me to fall flat on my face, reminding me that I dare not own what He does through me.
Passion in the Christian life fuels our effectiveness. God uses it to accelerate our spiritual development and to advance Christ’s cause (Acts 20:24). Yet is our passion driven to honor God or to glorify ourselves? The core of the Christian life, including our service for Him, is essentially a matter of the heart.
The Pharisees had an A+ in their passion for performance and truth. But performance and truth became their focus instead of the God of the Truth. Pride deceived and overwhelmed them. All they had were rules, regulations, and rituals. Their pride robbed them of authentic spiritual power and left them with empty, hardened hearts.
That’s why Jesus warns us we need a righteousness that “surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees” (Matthew 5:20) - Passion and performance in themselves are/were inadequate.
This righteousness to which we have been called is written in our hearts by the Spirit. It is a gift, yet we must strive for it and operate from it. It serves as the backdrop for our performance and centers on the glory and honor of God, not ourselves. This “surpassing righteousness” has to do with the purity and sincerity of our hearts motives, not our spiritual activities and checklists. It’s demonstrated by the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), not by “spiritual self-promotion”.
The goal is to be conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29). In doing so, we will live holy and righteous lives. If our goal is to please a Christian culture by conforming to external rules and regulations, then we will look like Pharisees and not like Jesus.
Rules and regulations are not necessarily wrong. The question is why do we do what we do?
If your heart is not right and tender toward the Lord, your passion will produce hypocrisy and pride. That is a very dangerous fine line, it is where we can either be sincere and honest, doing things in the Spirit and because of the love God instills in us – or – it can become the source of boastfulness, pride, of hypocrisy.
Where it no longer matters to talk about God, to share what God has done in your life, what God is doing in your life, but to just say all the right things at the right times so that we can look good. Careful! It happens all the time, it can happen to the best of us. And it is a dangerous source for a life where we play the role of a Christian, but are far from the actual authentic thing.
It is the spiritual righteousness of the heart that defeats pride and brings weight and substance to our spiritual passion. God hates pride, but He gives grace to those who realize that apart from Him, we can do absolutely nothing (John 15:5; James 4:6).
If you are like me, you need to be reminded periodically that the goal of the Christian life is Christ likeness, not our performance. We need to avoid that dead-end street of comparing ourselves to others and seeking to measure up to others’ expectations (1 Corinthians 4:1-4).
My wife has always told me something which has stuck with me – the issue of comparing our lives, be it spiritual or all of it, to someone else’s. We take someone and say “hey, look at them – they are doing horrible, thank you God because I am not like them. I am such a good person”. Think that is all we do?
No! We use that scenario to justify our life, to justify our relationship or lack of one with God. We start comparing ourselves with so and so, and their mistakes, their mess ups, their problems, their sins – and then applaud ourselves and act as if we just won an award.
But that is not it church – our measuring stick should be the Word of God. Not so and so, not something that happened in our lives ten years ago, or an emotion, an experience from last month. God holds our measuring stick to be His Word.
But we don’t like that, or sometimes we forget that notion completely - things sure change then, right? We see then that we are not our own person, all high and mighty, we see that our sustenance, our life, our job, our skills, our every breathe is completely dependent on God’s grace and love. Not because we are so lovely, so charming and a good friend! No, it is because God loved us first, more than we can ever know.
Our hearts’ prayer and passion should be to “Know Him” (Jesus), and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death” (Philippians 3:10). Every time I read this verse I realize how much more of Christ needs to be seen and demonstrated through my life and ministry.
Passion in the Christian life is wonderful, necessary and vital. But pride is deceptive, stubborn, and resilient.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/6/2008 5:53:48 AM
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tomhillbilly
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what exactly are you driving at with your last post here earthless? seems more like a sermon and im not seeing the specific relationship to this particular thread
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/6/2008 10:21:54 AM
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lightshineon
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It would be a very humbling experince for me to be a " Bell Ringer". I say, I admire all the voulenteers who stand in the cold, even snow and ice ringing a bell, as most people pass them by without a glance. I never really look at the person, as far as what they are wearing and such, or if they are not clean whatever I just see them as doing something I have not done, and would have a hard time doing. I do not like asking people for money, I could never be a sells person. I feel sorry for bell ringers in the cold. One year, it was so cold I went into the store, and bought these things you put inside of your gloves that keep your hands warm. I gave them to the Bell Ringer. I myself cannot stand to be cold, so I really give it to those willing to brave the elements, and rude people for those who would not have, except for the voulenteers efforts.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/6/2008 1:19:25 PM
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Ps103
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I just realized something. When I open the car door, if I hear the bell ringing I get money out while I am still sitting in the car.
So it doesn't matter who is ringing the bell or how they are dressed--they will still get the money. I mean, I am not going to walk toward the door with money in my hand, then stuff it back in my bag because the bell-ringer doesn't meet my sartorial standards, now am I?
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/6/2008 4:17:17 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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good grief.
holy moly.
this had got to be the most disturbing holiday thread i've read.
christians need to look good to make a good impression on the world?
no they need to ACT properly. starting with how we care for and treat those less groomed than we are.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/8/2008 6:47:32 PM
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dance4joy
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Ok, time for a little clarification from an "insider" I am currently in training to become a Salvation Army officer, so I know of what I speak ;)
There are different kinds of bell-ringers, some are paid, some are volunteers. Each corps needs a certain number of bell-ringers depending on the size of the community and number of kettle locations. They fill as many as possible with volunteers, either individuals or groups from local churches and community organizations. The rest of the positions they fill with paid bell-ringers. These individuals must apply for the job just like with any other job and go through an interview and background check. They are paid minimum wage and usually work in shifts of 7-8 hours a day. Generally the only "dress code" is that they are asked to wear the red volunteer apron. In general the paid bell-ringers are lower income people, but that certainly doesn't make them "dregs of society". Just because they may not be able to afford fancy clothes or a nice pair of shoes, that doesn't make them any less valuable or less capable. I was a paid bell-ringer myself one year to earn a little extra spending money for Christmas. In fact that's how I was first introduced to the Salvation Army!
Bell-ringers do not have to be Christians, but as representatives of the Salvation Army they are expected to follow basic rules of good behavior while on the job. If they are caught breaking these rules they can be let go.
I also would like to mention that I have been bell-ringing in downtown Chicago for the last few weeks now (and will be until Christmas Eve) and it's been a real eye opener. Let me tell you, it's REALLY hard to get the rich people in the shopping district to give. We have to use attention-getters like music and puppets to even get people to stop. It's quite sad really. People will spend thousands of dollars on expensive fur coats and extravagant toys for their children, but they can't spare a pocketful of change to help those less fortunate.
< Message edited by dance4joy -- 12/8/2008 7:06:13 PM >
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/8/2008 9:21:14 PM
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momma_bee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
I used to feel "guilty" walking past any of the bell ringers because I thought - I don't want folks to think I'm cheap and don't care about the less fortunate. Then I realized that is silly. What I give is between me and God and anyone who chooses to judge my heart based on what I do or don't stick in a kettle at one of 10 stores I stopped by that day is being silly.
I struggled with this notion as well.
Until one day someone told me that they set aside so many dollars for Salvation Army in an envelope in singles and allowed the kids to donate until the envelope was empty. They knew they had given what they planned to do, and the kids still learned to give...
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/8/2008 10:18:16 PM
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colliefan
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dance4joy
Oh, don't get me wrong Phosy. . .I know that there are plenty of reasons why people don't give. I've walked past many a kettle myself! I guess it just surprised me how much harder it is to get people to give here than it was back home, especially considering the amount of wealth that I've been seeing walk by. But I guess that's kinda off topic. 
Just wondering....has the SA done any studies on the best places to place its ringers and kettles? I would bet the best returns come from places in front of WalMart rather than Saks Fifth Avenue.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/8/2008 10:47:49 PM
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dance4joy
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Oh there's been a lot of studies done. . .there's a definite science to kettle placement. And yes, Wal-Mart definitely does better than Saks 5th Ave. But the very best place in Chicago is actually the train stations! I made over $500 in 4 hours there the other day.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 12:54:39 AM
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Roberta_
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I walked by one today. I was going to give, but the man was packing everything up because he wasn't feeling well. Oh well, there's always next time.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 5:44:16 AM
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momma_bee
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Since I have the chance to ask...
I travel to three different county seats to shop. When I donate at one town, does the money stay in that county / area or does it get distributed out of the area?
I assume the answer is a little bit of both, but does anyone have any idea of the percentage?
BTW, I have never heard of our ringers being paid.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 6:02:42 AM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dance4joy
I made over $500 in 4 hours there the other day.
"MADE" over $500?
Now see, that just seems strange to me. I thought this was charity. Sounds like you earned it when you word it like that. Didn't you feel checked when you typed it like that?
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 8:41:58 AM
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momma_bee
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That is an expression. I have heard that term used for various fundraisers, without regard for the ultimate destination of the money. (Both religious and not)
I think it comes from the idea that you made the sale. Either that or you 'made it' to a goal.
She also didn't mean that she printed the money herself, even though when I make a batch of cookies I've done all the work.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 8:51:02 AM
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dance4joy
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Oh heavens no, I didn't mean that I earned that money for myself or actually made it. I meant it in the context of "I RAISED over $500 in 4 hours.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 8:55:27 AM
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dance4joy
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In answer to your question momma-bee. I am quite certain that all of the money stays within the community where it was raised. The exception would be money raised by the students here at the College for Officer Training in Chicago. . .the money we raise goes to world services (our international relief efforts).
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 11:08:58 AM
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tomhillbilly
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dance4joy, you seem to be more on topic then most of the other participants here. Seems kinda funny that most of the posts have been "moral superiority" focused and i havent heard anyone but you say they have ever rang the bell.
the fact is i have gotten down and dirty with the salvation army, all ive heard is people saying they throw a couple pennies at it and they feel good about themselves.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 12/9/2008 11:34:04 AM
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tomhillbilly
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i cant tell you what to think my friend, but this is an important topic, please respect it.
I want to ask, how many of you here have participated in the bell ringing?
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