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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 5:41:28 PM
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tomhillbilly
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sure i agree with alot of what you folks have said here. Ltes face facts though, salvation army is supposed to be a christian organization. The bell ringing in america is one of if not the biggest opportunity for christians/church people to make an impact and represent themselves. The presentation isnt very strong i would venture, and in my area it is non-existant.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 6:19:12 PM
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twincities
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
If you do a investigating, don't be surprised if you find some of these bell ringers are actually performing court order community service, or are ringing for room and board.
that is true.. i worked with one like that.. and you don't have to be a member of the salvation army to do be a ring ringer.
how about the ones where you can now swipe your credit card
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 6:38:04 PM
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blessedinnyc
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The ECFA rates the Salvation Army as having an 83% efficiency rate. In my book, that at least deserves a B+; I've given to organizations that go as low as 75%. In fact, fund-raising expenses make up a tiny 5.3% of their total spending.
As this recession gets worse, the Salvation Army has the opportunity to be more effective than ever at reaching people with the gospel as well as meeting their physical needs. If you are thinking about giving or volunteering, this is a decent organization, IMHO.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 7:13:19 PM
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MaryMcE
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I volunteer for the SA here in Ontario, Canada. We are supposed to wear a red bib with a name tag on it that says "I Volunteer for the Salivation Army" but I noticed that not many people put the bib on. It does look rather goofy, but I wear it for the very reason noted here. I want people to know that I volunteer, and that they aren't just giving money to someone who happens to be standing by the kettle.
I know that some of the people that do this are paid. I was told that the SA just can't get enough people to volunteer to help, so they have to resort to paying people to do it. It makes me sad that there aren't enough people stepping in to help.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 9:39:15 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
sure i agree with alot of what you folks have said here. Ltes face facts though, salvation army is supposed to be a christian organization. The bell ringing in america is one of if not the biggest opportunity for christians/church people to make an impact and represent themselves. The presentation isnt very strong i would venture, and in my area it is non-existant.
quote:
James 2
1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 10:12:08 PM
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earthless
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Great verse, PS103.
By some standards here.. Jesus would have been looked down upon because of His ragged clothes, no house, etc..
I am also reminded of Scripture that says Jesus was nothing to look it, ugly even to those judging appearances.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/25/2008 11:43:07 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Great posts, Kate and Earthless.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 12:16:46 AM
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stellaluna
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I'm still trying to figure out why the OP assumes the bell ringers aren't Christian. Did he ask them? Is it because they don't dress well?
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 10:06:25 AM
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stephanos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm still trying to figure out why the OP assumes the bell ringers aren't Christian. Did he ask them? Is it because they don't dress well?
Don't you know...he already called them the "dregs of society". Clearly that means they cant be christians.
But seeing as tomhillbilly has not responded to my last post in this thread...I doubt you will get much clarification. For I still am of the strong opinion, that the attitude in thsi thread is evidence of his racist feelings. If you dont dress nice, and look like him, you are not a christian, you are scum. You are the "dregs of society".
And I will also say this. Anyone who would not give to the bell ringer wearing shabby clothes, and would give to the bell ringer in nice clothes, is a uncaring self centered ungodly person. When I gave my fist full of change, I dont even remember what the person looked like. All I knew is what little change I could scrape up/afford to give, i should give. The ringer had nothing to do with it.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 10:21:14 AM
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blessedinnyc
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I will say that I think God deserves for us to give him our very best. For some, that might mean wearing tattered clothing, but I do think it always involves a cheerful attitude.
To the extent that people doing the bell-ringing have the same attitude they would have if they were doing court-ordered community service, we should maybe work on changing that. If the Salvation Army's volunteers, however, are dressed the way they are because of their socioeconomic condition, judging by outward appearances would be foolishly classist (although classism doesn't necessarily mean racism).
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 10:20:53 PM
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tomhillbilly
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Im just sating the facts as i see them. Ive been to many churches in my area and i know it is middle class or better. Its a fact that the people ringing the bells in my area are on a lower socioeconomic level than people who attend church.
Its a simple question: why arent church people volunteering in this noble cause? I know the answer because they've got better things to do and they consider it beneath them. Its boring,cold and menial task that noone is gonna do unless they have to, its that simple folks.
so you can call me a racist and a heathen and 'insensitive' but at least im being honest
stephanos you seem to want to be specifically addressed, so i ask where in my posts have i shown racism?
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 11:01:10 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
Im just sating the facts as i see them. Ive been to many churches in my area and i know it is middle class or better. Its a fact that the people ringing the bells in my area are on a lower socioeconomic level than people who attend church.
You realize that the Salvation Army is also a church, right? Have you attended their church? What about the socioeconomic status there? Perhaps another factor might be the demographics of their organization.
quote:
Its a simple question: why arent church people volunteering in this noble cause? I know the answer because they've got better things to do and they consider it beneath them. Its boring,cold and menial task that noone is gonna do unless they have to, its that simple folks.
I'm not sure I understand your point.
quote:
so you can call me a racist and a heathen and 'insensitive' but at least im being honest
Calling you racist would be inaccurate, based on this thread, although I may sense a little classism.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 11:16:47 PM
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HisFish
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quote:
original: stephanos
Tell us...When you say "dregs of society" is that a code word for "blacks"? What does it matter what they are dressed like! Are you seriously not going to give because of how the person looks? If so, what does that say about YOU!
Since your the only one to come to this conclusion i wonder what go's on in your head. seriously can we stop with this whole "code words meaning something else" bit, it's so liberal think.
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The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/26/2008 11:24:00 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Its boring,cold and menial task that noone is gonna do unless they have to, its that simple folks.
And Jesus did the menial task that only the lowest of servants would do in washing the feet of his Apostles. Knowing that one would betray him, one would deny him, and all but the Apostle John would run for the hills.
Sorry, but they don't seem to have a Christ-like attitude.
My church is, for the most part solidly middle- to upper-class. But a great percentage of the church is involved in inner-city ministries. Our pastor has a heart for brining in inner city into our church.
Sounds as if your church could use a spiritual kick in the behind.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 8:36:30 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
original: stephanos
Tell us...When you say "dregs of society" is that a code word for "blacks"? What does it matter what they are dressed like! Are you seriously not going to give because of how the person looks? If so, what does that say about YOU!
Since your the only one to come to this conclusion i wonder what go's on in your head. seriously can we stop with this whole "code words meaning something else" bit, it's so liberal think.
Actually the same thoughts came to my head and I am FAR from liberal.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 9:59:42 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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By "dregs of society", I didn't think he specifically meant black people.
I thought he meant poor people and/or homeless people; regardless of their color.
Either way, yes, I thought the wording was indeed very insensitive . . . and, well, a few other things that I won't elaborate on here in this thread.
What's the purpose of bell-ringing? To show everyone how nicely one can dress? Or, to be a true, humble servant of Our Lord and to do something that will help others?
Perhaps some of the people are being paid to ring bells. So what?! Where is it written that someone cannot be paid AND be doing a good deed at the same time? Perhaps, this is one of the ways that the Salvation Army helps people; to give them a job. Perhaps also, the bell wringers ARE wearing the very best clothes they have.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers used to served in the military; and because of injury or even the trauma that being in a war brings, they are a bit down and out right now at this stage of their life.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers lost someone they dearly loved to death and didn't quite handle things very well and their life took a downward spiral.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers lost their life savings to due to medical bills, a natural disaster or some other catasrophe and they're tyring to get back on their feet again.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers is a woman with children who was completely financially dependent upon someone who was abusive and she finally had enough and fled.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers' childhood was filled with horrors that most people, thankfully, cannot even imagine and that has shaped and molded their adult life.
Perhaps one of those bell ringers has been court-ordered to do such task. Whose to say that it won't be a life-changing experience for them?
Perhaps one of those bell ringers hasn't experienced any of the above, but they simply "never got the hang" of life and instead turned to drugs or alchohol, but have now decided they want to make a fresh start.
Perhaps you, too, have experienced one or more of the above scenarios I've listed and came out of it reasonably unscathed. That's absolutely wonderful!!! Truly it is. And to those who have come through trials without getting totally beaten down, I hope you sincerely and joyfully thank Our Lord with every breath you take . . . AND with the words that you say and write AND with your attitude and actions that you display towards other people.
But some people do slip and fall. Some people need more help getting back up than others do. Some people need a lot of help.
That's what the Salvation Army is all about - helping people.
Here are some categories and sub-categories, taken from the Salvation Army's website:
Rebuilding Lives
- Missing Persons
- Disaster Relief
- Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation
- Fight Human Trafficking
Community Care Ministries
- Veterans Affairs Services
- Prisoner Rehabilitaton
Community and Fellowship
- Youth Camps
- Kroc Centers
- Music
Comfort and Support
- Christmas Charity
- Elderly Services
- Loneliness (League of Mercy)
Isn't it a bit hypoctricial for people to proclaim how one has been a bell ringer (and a well-dressed one at that), but then look down their noses on the very people for whom those bells were being rung? It's ok to help them, but it's not ok to be one of them???
"Dregs of society".
Wow.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 10:18:21 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Regarding the Salvation Army being a Christian organization . . .
Christians are not supposed to close themselves off from the world; they are to go out into it.
Besides, again, how do you know if a particular bell ringer isn't a Christian?
The only way is for you to hear it straight from them; NOT based on their clothing; NOT based on their economic status; NOT based on what you think you know . . . but to actually enter into a relationship with a person; to listen to them AND hear them.
And if someone is doing that, then I truly hope they are focused on the person whose in front of them and what Our Lord wants for that moment between the two people; NOT what they are wearing or how much money they have or don't have.
If one of those bell ringers isn't a Christian, perhaps Our Lord is calling you to show them HIS Love and HIS Mercy. Perhaps, just perhaps, Our Lord is calling you to show them who Jesus really is, why He came to earth, and how they, too, can believe in Him and look forward to spending Eternity with Him.
None of which, involves a specific dress code nor a certain financial status.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 10:21:21 AM
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earthless
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Amen.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 12:24:34 PM
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SirWintery
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Our local Christian radio station has in rotation with their other public service announcements an invitation from the Salvation Army for "your family or church" to volunteer as bell ringers. They're asking Christian listeners--their family or church group--to volunteer--you know, "respectable" types.
The idea that a Christian will _not_ give to someone who looks poor but that a Christian _will_ give to someone who looks very well-to-do is backwards.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/27/2008 12:30:42 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Our local Christian radio station has in rotation with their other public service announcements an invitation from the Salvation Army for "your family or church" to volunteer as bell ringers. They're asking Christian listeners--their family or church group--to volunteer--you know, "respectable" types.
The idea that a Christian will _not_ give to someone who looks poor but that a Christian _will_ give to someone who looks very well-to-do is backwards.
Yes, it most certainly is.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/28/2008 11:48:54 AM
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Liveloved
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Tom,
Unlike many of those here, I think you are making an important point. The Salvation Army is a Christian organization so when you do the work of the Salvation Army, you are representing Christ to the world.
When I am out in public, I consider myself Christ's ambassador and ALL my ways should reflect the One I am representing. That includes my speech, my actions, and, yes, even my appearance. That does not mean I have to be wearing designer clothes. But it does mean that I am groomed and nicely dressed (which can be done by shopping at Goodwill or Salvation Army).
If bellringers are being solicited to represent Christ to a watching world, I do not think it at all inappropriate for them to present themselves well. He is worth it.  LL
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/28/2008 12:12:29 PM
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momma_bee
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Hmm, I donated the other day to a SA kettle that was being manned by a fellow in a NASCAR jacket.
I don't like NASCAR (jealous of the vehicles) and it wasn't my DH's driver on the jacket. I wonder if I should have reconsidered...
Funny, I thought it went into the kettle, not the fellows pocket...
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/28/2008 1:40:16 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Tom,
Unlike many of those here, I think you are making an important point. The Salvation Army is a Christian organization so when you do the work of the Salvation Army, you are representing Christ to the world.
When I am out in public, I consider myself Christ's ambassador and ALL my ways should reflect the One I am representing. That includes my speech, my actions, and, yes, even my appearance. That does not mean I have to be wearing designer clothes. But it does mean that I am groomed and nicely dressed (which can be done by shopping at Goodwill or Salvation Army).
If bellringers are being solicited to represent Christ to a watching world, I do not think it at all inappropriate for them to present themselves well. He is worth it. LL This is making an assumption that everyone who is a Christian has nice clothes to wear. There are many, many poor Christians in the world who struggle to buy food to feed their families; in times like that, clothing really is quite secondary.
There was a point in my life when I didn't have more than one pair of jeans, one pair of shoes, a couple of tops and a couple of dresses; none of which were new and all of which had long-since basically outlived their usefulness. But, that didn't mean that I wasn't a Christian just because my clothes were not "presentable."
In all sincerity, I am so very thankful that people back then didn't question my Christianity based on what I wore; but, instead knew I was a Christian based on who I was.
"They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love."
The lyrics do not say anything about our manner of dress.
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RE: SALVATION ARMY BELL RINGERS! - 11/28/2008 8:32:09 PM
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tomhillbilly
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Joined: 3/18/2008
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thanx for the posts everyone, liveloved i especially appreciate you getting the 'point' of my post.
What i wanted to prove about the money-making part of it using myself and the other lady as examples wasnt to downgrade anyone that might not be dreesed as well. In the 'rules for bellringers' one and possibly the most important one was that the bell-ringer say "hello" to each and every person. I tried my very best to follow this, and im pretty darn sure that this other lady did it probably better than me considering she took in the most money 5 times to my 1. Also, for all i know the days when i did win were the couple times she didnt work. they gave out some little trinket type prize for the daily top money maker.
Lets consider this targeting and recognizing each individual, couple or group specifically with a "hello" and its effect on giving, and also just a sense of good-will from someone being cheerful while doing a kinda boring type task.
This was my greater point in posting this, that for the average people that get stuck out there it isnt such a cheerful and good dded they are doing, because most all of them probably really need the money. This is why i see such an opportunity for cheerful, happy church going folks to volunteer. It sure would be alot more fun and profitable to make it a team effort rather than one lone soul out there that may not be all that cheerful in carrying out their duties. More people would also keep the bell ringing continuously as one person takes a lunch break and probably several other breaks due to cold and physical/biological concerns.
I've heard alot of people talking about how christianity is somehow under attack and being removed from the public square. There we have it, where is more public then the wal-marts and grocery stores.
So please dont take one comment from me and make out like im looking down on people or something. I am sympathetic with peoples struggles, i just wanted to use my area as an example to make a larger point
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