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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/2/2008 4:02:30 PM
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laura...
Posts: 2925
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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My biggest concern isn't their position on women wearing pants, jewelry, makeup, etc. My concern is that most churches in the USA that hold to those dress codes also distort foundational Christian doctrine. They usually are oneness churches that deny the Trinity. They usually are of a pentecostal bent that teaches one is not saved if they don't speaks in other tongues. Those are very serious issues.
I recommend that you and your husband together examine the church's statement of faith to see if they are teaching sound doctrine or not. If not, love them from a distance as you attend a different church.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 7:36:29 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
Hello everyone
I am so confused! I don't know what to do or who to ask.
I have been attending a church that believes that women ae not to wear pants because of what is says in Deuteronomy and how pants make women look masculine. For several years, being a baby Christian, I believed this as well. I believed that part of being born again, loving God, and sanctified was that women had to wear a dress or skirt. As I've grown, I've so many, many women who love God, who are born again and sanctified and they wear pants.
Long story short. I do not have a conviction about wering skirts/dresses. I did it because I thought it was a sign of being sanctified and your love for God. I now know that is not true. My confusion coms in the fact that I was told by amember that I could no longer be a member of the church I go to if I wear pants. . . .in or out of church. I'm looking for godly council, not mean spirited advice. These are still my brothers and sisters and I care for and love them deeply.
Thanks
Hi Seeking T,
I think you should ask your Pastor to explain about the whole situation and not listen to a "member" explanations. I think you are a new convert?
I was born again in a AoG Brazilian Missionary church in the USA with this church "doctrine" that womem must wear skirt, dress, long hair, no or not much make up, no nail poslish or very light colors one..and it was clear that was a commom church practices by AoG (in Brazil) as other 2 denominations also. People do know AoG in Brazil for this characterist of lady wear, as males wearing suits, we call one another brothers and sisters and we great each other with the "Peace of the Lord". Those are all church practices commom to AoG (and 2 other denominations) at least in Brazil. Sure there are other AoG where you may find women wearing pants..but well, they may not be "traditional" ones.
I had not problem at all embracing those "holiness" practices when I was member of the church. I really loved that church where I born again at 33 years old. I understood very well that was practice of the church denomination and other churches, Protestants, did have their own practices wearing whatever. I have no problem as visit any church to respect and dress acording to their church doctrine as if I do have knowlgede I will visit a holiness church sure I will dress appropriated. Same respect I do have about cultures and peoples communities and homes.
I do pray and hope you get to have the information you need by going to pastor, elders and etc to clear up all the confusion about the church you attend and its practices, plus their statement of faith also. Again in my original church I knew it was church practices not Scripture comamdments, women wear skirts, long hair and etc. and I did embrace with freedom and naturaly the church style. Very confy, cheap and no "statement style wear", I had 2 skirts to wear to church, so practical like an uniform. Of course wore pants but not church.  Some sisters may wear 24/7 thou.. 
Nowdays I do attend a church I may wear trousers, discret clothes and even bit of make up..never was into much make up anyways. I enjoy my natural style and may hair long as usual.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 7:47:33 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
My biggest concern isn't their position on women wearing pants, jewelry, makeup, etc. My concern is that most churches in the USA that hold to those dress codes also distort foundational Christian doctrine. They usually are oneness churches that deny the Trinity. They usually are of a pentecostal bent that teaches one is not saved if they don't speaks in other tongues. Those are very serious issues.
I recommend that you and your husband together examine the church's statement of faith to see if they are teaching sound doctrine or not. If not, love them from a distance as you attend a different church.
Well..I do not know what "this pentecostal bent" expression means (some or all Pentecostals?) but Pentecostal church that I know do not say that one is not saed if they do not speak in tongues..as many in Pentecostal church may not speak in tongues and they are not unsaved or less saved. But sure there are many churches nowdays preaching lots of false teachings..
I do say that many churches may be legalistic also as they may be preocupied just with external holiness and appearances. What worries me more is about ones not sure about their own salvation, as walking in eggs shells regarding losing salvation for this or that and working so hard to keep it and etc.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 9:01:38 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2925
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
My biggest concern isn't their position on women wearing pants, jewelry, makeup, etc. My concern is that most churches in the USA that hold to those dress codes also distort foundational Christian doctrine. They usually are oneness churches that deny the Trinity. They usually are of a pentecostal bent that teaches one is not saved if they don't speaks in other tongues. Those are very serious issues.
I recommend that you and your husband together examine the church's statement of faith to see if they are teaching sound doctrine or not. If not, love them from a distance as you attend a different church.
Well..I do not know what "this pentecostal bent" expression means (some or all Pentecostals?) but Pentecostal church that I know do not say that one is not saed if they do not speak in tongues..as many in Pentecostal church may not speak in tongues and they are not unsaved or less saved. But sure there are many churches nowdays preaching lots of false teachings..
I do say that many churches may be legalistic also as they may be preocupied just with external holiness and appearances. What worries me more is about ones not sure about their own salvation, as walking in eggs shells regarding losing salvation for this or that and working so hard to keep it and etc.
quote:
Well..I do not know what "this pentecostal bent" expression means (some or all Pentecostals?)
Some pentecostals.
The denominations that I know that insist on such dress codes here in the USA are most often oneness pentecostal churches. Oneness pentecostal churches also teach that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved. Not all pentecostal churches teach that. I am pentecostal. I've spent 27 years in the Assemblies of God. The AoG does not teach that one must speak in tongues to be saved. The AoG also teaches the Trinity and does not demand that women wear dresses only, no makeup and no jewelry. At least, the majority of USA AoG churches do not demand that women wear dresses only.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 11:32:09 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
My biggest concern isn't their position on women wearing pants, jewelry, makeup, etc. My concern is that most churches in the USA that hold to those dress codes also distort foundational Christian doctrine. They usually are oneness churches that deny the Trinity. They usually are of a pentecostal bent that teaches one is not saved if they don't speaks in other tongues. Those are very serious issues.
I recommend that you and your husband together examine the church's statement of faith to see if they are teaching sound doctrine or not. If not, love them from a distance as you attend a different church.
Well..I do not know what "this pentecostal bent" expression means (some or all Pentecostals?) but Pentecostal church that I know do not say that one is not saed if they do not speak in tongues..as many in Pentecostal church may not speak in tongues and they are not unsaved or less saved. But sure there are many churches nowdays preaching lots of false teachings..
I do say that many churches may be legalistic also as they may be preocupied just with external holiness and appearances. What worries me more is about ones not sure about their own salvation, as walking in eggs shells regarding losing salvation for this or that and working so hard to keep it and etc.
quote:
Well..I do not know what "this pentecostal bent" expression means (some or all Pentecostals?)
Some pentecostals.
The denominations that I know that insist on such dress codes here in the USA are most often oneness pentecostal churches. Oneness pentecostal churches also teach that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved. Not all pentecostal churches teach that. I am pentecostal. I've spent 27 years in the Assemblies of God. The AoG does not teach that one must speak in tongues to be saved. The AoG also teaches the Trinity and does not demand that women wear dresses only, no makeup and no jewelry. At least, the majority of USA AoG churches do not demand that women wear dresses only.
Thanks Laura,
I do know USA AoG does not have the same church doctrines as other AoG in other countries. I did call few years back AoG headquarters to find out why was that..it was explained to me they just are this way and some churches from different countries have different church disciplines and doctrines, but I did call to ask mostly to find out why there were women pastors at AoG churches in USA, not much about clothing. Most AoG churches in Brazil do not ordain women to be pastors. Still all those AoG churches in the world do belong to the same council of the AoG international and here in USA they have different countries and languages of AoG in their different districts but reckognized by USA AoG as having their credentials. Plus let us not forget that the biggest AoG in the world is not the USA one but Brazil's do have the largest AoG in the world and it is the larger Pentecostal country in the world. As the history of AoG in Brazil was not founded by AoG USA but 2 Sweden missionaries who were Baptist and were in the US before went to Brazil in 1910.
There are AoG all over the world with different church doctrines and practices, that I do know still all AoG reggarding the Statement of Faith in common but different in church practices as requiremts dressing conduct and others. Plus although inside coutries there are different conventions, worldwide most do belong to the same AoG based on statemt of faith as Protestant and etc.
Had to explain because same surprise and US AoG may have finding different church doctrines in a foreigner AoG the foreigners do have surprise about USA AoG also..kwim?
Blessings and Peace of Lord Jesus be with you. (greetings from sister Brazilian AoG to a sister AoG USA)
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 11:52:29 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2925
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
Thanks Laura,
I do know USA AoG does not have the same church doctrines as other AoG in other countries. I did call few years back AoG headquarters to find out why was that..it was explained to me they just are this way and some churches from different countries have different church disciplines and doctrines, but I did call to ask mostly to find out why there were women pastors at AoG churches in USA, not much about clothing. Most AoG churches in Brazil do not ordain women to be pastors. Still all those AoG churches in the world do belong to the same council of the AoG international and here in USA they have different countries and languages of AoG in their different districts but reckognized by USA AoG as having their credentials. Plus let us not forget that the biggest AoG in the world is not the USA one but Brazil's do have the largest AoG in the world and it is the larger Pentecostal country in the world. As the history of AoG in Brazil was not founded by AoG USA but 2 Sweden missionaries who were Baptist and were in the US before went to Brazil in 1910.
There are AoG all over the world with different church doctrines and practices, that I do know still all AoG reggarding the Statement of Faith in common but different in church practices as requiremts dressing conduct and others. Plus although inside coutries there are different conventions, worldwide most do belong to the same AoG based on statemt of faith as Protestant and etc.
Had to explain because same surprise and US AoG may have finding different church doctrines in a foreigner AoG the foreigners do have surprise about USA AoG also..kwim?
Blessings and Peace of Lord Jesus be with you. (greetings from sister Brazilian AoG to a sister AoG USA)
Interesting. It also demonstrates to me that the "dress code" isn't the main issue. The main issue the original poster need to examine is what other doctrine is her church teaching? In the AoG, regardless of what country, conference, district or culture, their Statement of Fundamental Truths must be the same or they cannot be a member church of the AoG Fellowship and call themselves Assemblies of God. In my experience, once again, churches in the USA that stick to such a strict dress code often err in the essential truths of Christianity. Such a strict dress code isn't necessarily a sign that the church is in error throughout but it is certainly a red flag that indicates a need to examine their fundamental statement of faith.
It is always wonderful to interact with a sister AoG member of a different "flavor". LOL!! I do not currently attend an AoG church as my new husband of 3 years is an elder in a non-denominational church. But, I will always be pentecostal at heart and have a great love for the AoG fellowship.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/3/2008 4:03:25 PM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
It is always wonderful to interact with a sister AoG member of a different "flavor". LOL!! I do not currently attend an AoG church as my new husband of 3 years is an elder in a non-denominational church. But, I will always be pentecostal at heart and have a great love for the AoG fellowship.
Me too find wonderful, same situation as in another church and pentecostal and great love for AoG.
And sure do agree about check and make sure about Statement of Faith.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/6/2008 7:30:33 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Ahhh . . . (((((SeekingT))))))) I'm so sorry this happened to you. You need to move on, since you are growing in the Lord. I suggest you say good-bye to the church and move on. You can still keep in touch with those you love while going to another church. God's blessings.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
Hello everyone
I am so confused! I don't know what to do or who to ask.
I have been attending a church that believes that women ae not to wear pants because of what is says in Deuteronomy and how pants make women look masculine. For several years, being a baby Christian, I believed this as well. I believed that part of being born again, loving God, and sanctified was that women had to wear a dress or skirt. As I've grown, I've so many, many women who love God, who are born again and sanctified and they wear pants.
Long story short. I do not have a conviction about wering skirts/dresses. I did it because I thought it was a sign of being sanctified and your love for God. I now know that is not true. My confusion coms in the fact that I was told by amember that I could no longer be a member of the church I go to if I wear pants. . . .in or out of church. I'm looking for godly council, not mean spirited advice. These are still my brothers and sisters and I care for and love them deeply.
Thanks
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/6/2008 7:33:10 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
Is it possible that I have changed and grown and the men made standards and men made rules that I once use to adhere to whole heartedly is no longer sufficient for me. I don't want to knock anyone who adheres and accepts those standards because many years ago I believed the same way and loved God with all that is within me. And I still love God dearly!!!!
Seeking, you have a beautiful heart and that pleases God. Yes you have grown up in the Lord. You might want to talk to DH about this situation and tell him you'd like to move on. Either that or wear dresses to church all the time. I pray God gives you wisdom in this one.
kim
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/7/2008 10:57:07 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1827
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
Oh my goodness. Thank you to everyone for your kind and caring words.
This congregation is near and dear to my heart. Oh, I would never disrespct the congreation by coming into the church with pants on.
There is just no liberty to wear them anywhere else that concerns me. I don't want to be considered a non-member just because of not wearing a dress all the time. I've considered leaving but it seems like such a petty matter.
In matters of personal preference and Christian liberty, we have a very clear teaching in Scripture. We are not to please ourselves, but instead we are to avoid anything which could become a stumbling block to another brother or sister. Study Romans chapter 14 carefully.
This means that in your case, where you are in a sound church and in good fellowship with others, you must be prepared to give up your liberty and for the sake of your fellow-believers, do this: "that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way" (v. 13).
While the verse says "man" the word applies equally to men and women.
Just as Christ did not please Himself, we are not to please ourselves but "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, OR IS OFFENDED, or is made weak" (v.21).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/8/2008 2:46:00 PM
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jozie530
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/8/2008
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I pray all goes well. I too belonged to a church that had a very similar belief system. God led my husband and I to this church and he led us out. We attended for many years as leaders following the Pastors leadership. But after a while, it began to get heavy to me. God was preparing me for my departure without my knowledge. A dear friend told me something that could have been taken as a mean statement - but it was very wise. He said "line up or leave". He was not just talking about my actions, but my heart as well. So I decided to line up, put on my church face and continued to attend, praising God all the way. As the year went by, I continued to feel heavy. Shortly after I decided to leave—on the day I prepared to tell the church, a visitor told me “I've been fasting for 3 days, and the Lord is telling you - don't leave this church". I told no one but God and my husband that morning. I cried, because I knew what she was saying was true. The Lord confirmed it in my heart.
Shortly after many of our youth surrendered to Christ and began to walk in the Liberty of Christ through my teachings – Now over the age of 18, many still thank me today. About a year later, the Lord spoke to my husband (believe me I was praying for the Lord to touch him and make it possible), and directed him to leave the church.
Please don’t’ forget, we have a purpose in life. We are the salt of the earth and a light to a dying world – We forget sometimes… not everyone in the church is saved and there is a purpose to why you are there. I spoke with my pastor many times and told him the truth on how I felt. I do my best to live the word of God in a world of lies; it is the only truth I know. There is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus
Please read Jude – study it… It’s speaking of the church. Your church does not sound like it is this bad, but keep your focus on Jude 1:20-22 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Keep your husband, Pastor and your congregation in prayer that the knowledge of the truth will come. Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.(without a doubt)
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/8/2008 2:47:44 PM
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jozie530
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/8/2008
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Oh.. by the way, most men wear the pants--but it is the woman that buys them for him or picks them out.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/8/2008 3:34:18 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11107
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
In matters of personal preference and Christian liberty, we have a very clear teaching in Scripture. We are not to please ourselves, but instead we are to avoid anything which could become a stumbling block to another brother or sister. Study Romans chapter 14 carefully.
This means that in your case, where you are in a sound church and in good fellowship with others, you must be prepared to give up your liberty and for the sake of your fellow-believers, do this: "that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way" (v. 13).
While the verse says "man" the word applies equally to men and women.
Just as Christ did not please Himself, we are not to please ourselves but "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, OR IS OFFENDED, or is made weak" (v.21).
It's not about offending - it's about causing a brother or sister to stumble. And it is not a reason for churches to come up with unscriptural requirements just like the Pharisees did during Jesus' time. Note how strongly Paul condemned the Judaizers. He could have said we should concede to them and do what they want because they are offended or their faith is weak, but Paul told believers to have nothing to do with them. Ask yourself why? If it's all about not offending or such, why the difference here?
The fact is, this is not a weak believer - this is a church whose LEADERSHIP is requiring something Scripture does not require - and not just requiring it when they have to see and be "troubled by it" but ALL the time. There is a difference.
I am the first to say that we should always be thinking of our brothers and sisters and how our actions affect each other and treat one another with grace. There is a difference though between someone who is young in the Lord being genuinely troubled by something and someone who is in LEADERSHIP, who shouldn't be stumbling because of superficial things, requiring their flock to follow rules that go beyond God's written Word.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Classified Ads: "Government employer looking for candidates. Criminal background required."
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/9/2008 2:29:49 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1827
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quote:
It's not about offending - it's about causing a brother or sister to stumble.
This isssue is about pleasing ourselves rather than sacrificing our Christian liberty for the sake of others. Since this sister is in harmony with the teachings of the church (other than for this matter) and since all the other members are also in agreement, it would be in the interests of all concerned if she were to accept and submit to the standard set by the church, and not make this trivial matter the basis of breaking fellowship. It would be a sin to encourage her to leave this fellowship merely because she wishes to wear pants.
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And it is not a reason for churches to come up with unscriptural requirements just like the Pharisees did during Jesus' time.
Your reference to Pharisees indicates that you are unable to distinguish between those who are children of God and those who are not (Jesus called them children of the devil). There are no Pharisees in this church, just Christians striving to do what is right before God. And God has indeed said in His Word that the woman should not wear that which pertains to a man. Are you prepared to challenge God in this matter? Whether we apply that teaching to ourselves is something else.
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Note how strongly Paul condemned the Judaizers.
Once again you are making a false comparison. The Judaizers were false teachers, but this sister has not said that there is false teaching in her church. While you may not agree with this teaching, it is found in the Word of God. So be careful how you throw labels around, and slander other Christians.
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He could have said we should concede to them and do what they want because they are offended or their faith is weak, but Paul told believers to have nothing to do with them. Ask yourself why? If it's all about not offending or such, why the difference here?
This is utter nonsense, and I trust no one will give your statement any credence. By this statement, you are prepared to make another Christian break fellowship for the wrong reasons. That is a very serious matter. These Christians are neither Pharisees, nor Judaizers, nor hypocrites, nor idolaters. Satan, who is the accuser of the brethren, would have us make such false accusations.
They are simply holding to a belief which they feel is in obedience to God. And since this sister has absolutely no other issue with her church, it would be the height of reckless counsel to advise her to break fellowship because of this one issue. We are to encourage believers to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, and also to be willing to give up certain liberties for the greater good. "Christ pleased not Himself" is our standard.
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The fact is, this is not a weak believer - this is a church whose LEADERSHIP is requiring something Scripture does not require - and not just requiring it when they have to see and be "troubled by it" but ALL the time. There is a difference.
While this may be your opinion, this sister and all the other sisters in that church have accepted this and have sought to abide by this standard. Since it is not a doctrinal issue, and it is certainly not a false teaching, the most Christ-honouring course of action is to seek not to offend those in this church who hold to this teaching.
Some churches teach their members to shun alcohol, others to shun gambling, others to shun the dance hall, therefore it is within the rights of any church to maintain the distinction between men and women. Scripture clearly teaches this in many ways, including the head covering and the disallowance of women as pastors, teachers or leaders in the local church.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/9/2008 3:27:48 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11107
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Wow. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less than this, but I'll address it anyway since apparently you feel it necessary to accuse me of all kinds of sins and such.
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ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
It's not about offending - it's about causing a brother or sister to stumble.
This isssue is about pleasing ourselves rather than sacrificing our Christian liberty for the sake of others. Since this sister is in harmony with the teachings of the church (other than for this matter) and since all the other members are also in agreement, it would be in the interests of all concerned if she were to accept and submit to the standard set by the church, and not make this trivial matter the basis of breaking fellowship. It would be a sin to encourage her to leave this fellowship merely because she wishes to wear pants.
Have you read the entire thread - not just the OP? She doesn't want to leave "merely because she wishes to wear pants". There is a LOT going on here - the pants issue is just the tangible, visible side of this. But thanks for telling me I'm sinning for my concerns regarding what this church is teaching. 
quote:
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And it is not a reason for churches to come up with unscriptural requirements just like the Pharisees did during Jesus' time.
Your reference to Pharisees indicates that you are unable to distinguish between those who are children of God and those who are not (Jesus called them children of the devil). There are no Pharisees in this church, just Christians striving to do what is right before God. And God has indeed said in His Word that the woman should not wear that which pertains to a man. Are you prepared to challenge God in this matter? Whether we apply that teaching to ourselves is something else.
Wow again. Do you think that someone having "Christian" stamped on their church and following a bunch of religious laws (even if those laws are right) makes them righteous believers with no tendencies towards the legalism the Pharisees embraced? Are you serious?  As far as the pants issue - I'm not challenging God because God never tells women they cannot wear pants. I'm wearing pants right now and don't look one smidgen like a man thank you very much. If someone can't tell a woman apart from a man by simply pants, they have some serious issue. Serious issues.
To quote from a previous post that put it much more eloquently:
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ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I once challenged my former pastor to wear pants purchased from the woman's department - if they are indeed men's clothing. He turned red but would not accept the challenge because he realized his position was built on sand.
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Note how strongly Paul condemned the Judaizers.
Once again you are making a false comparison. The Judaizers were false teachers, but this sister has not said that there is false teaching in her church. While you may not agree with this teaching, it is found in the Word of God. So be careful how you throw labels around, and slander other Christians.
Pot, meet kettle. And, this teaching is NOT found in the Word of God no matter how people try to put it there. It is an interpretation and extrapolation JUST LIKE those who felt new converts in the early church must be circumcised. It was an interpretation that the early church determined was incorrect. They were putting requirements on other believers and loading them down with laws that the Lord didn't require. That is what made it wrong - that is what Paul condemned. I would argue the same thing is happening here.
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He could have said we should concede to them and do what they want because they are offended or their faith is weak, but Paul told believers to have nothing to do with them. Ask yourself why? If it's all about not offending or such, why the difference here?
This is utter nonsense, and I trust no one will give your statement any credence. By this statement, you are prepared to make another Christian break fellowship for the wrong reasons. That is a very serious matter. These Christians are neither Pharisees, nor Judaizers, nor hypocrites, nor idolaters. Satan, who is the accuser of the brethren, would have us make such false accusations.
Aw. So now I am following satan simply because I don't believe we should require our fellow believers to follow extra-scriptural rules. Nice.
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They are simply holding to a belief which they feel is in obedience to God. And since this sister has absolutely no other issue with her church, it would be the height of reckless counsel to advise her to break fellowship because of this one issue. We are to encourage believers to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, and also to be willing to give up certain liberties for the greater good. "Christ pleased not Himself" is our standard.
Unity is more important than truth?
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The fact is, this is not a weak believer - this is a church whose LEADERSHIP is requiring something Scripture does not require - and not just requiring it when they have to see and be "troubled by it" but ALL the time. There is a difference.
While this may be your opinion, this sister and all the other sisters in that church have accepted this and have sought to abide by this standard. Since it is not a doctrinal issue, and it is certainly not a false teaching, the most Christ-honouring course of action is to seek not to offend those in this church who hold to this teaching.
Nice dodge.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Classified Ads: "Government employer looking for candidates. Criminal background required."
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/10/2008 8:28:05 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Here's another one. (((((SeekingT))))) I give them out for free. :) You know, sometimes God puts us in these positions b/c He wants us to help folks like these. Sometimes He wants the older 'kids' to help the younger 'kids'. Those who are matured in the faith, help those who are younger in faith. It's pretty obvious that the folks in the church are pretty immatured b/c of this 'law' they've made. I think you said you didn't want to leave b/c you love the people there. You might want to think about speaking to hubby and if he agrees, pray for them and help them break free of this 'law'. I'm not for sure how you'd do it, but God knows what to do. Just a thought. God bless, dear!! I pray God gives you great wisdom on this one. :)
One more thing, have you spoken to hubby about this? I know it's hard when others put rules on us and then condemn if we aren't following those rules. It's very sufficating. Would he agree to leave if he knew you were this upset? I really feel for you. Hang in there.
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ORIGINAL: SeekingT
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Ahhh . . . (((((SeekingT))))))) I'm so sorry this happened to you. You need to move on, since you are growing in the Lord. I suggest you say good-bye to the church and move on. You can still keep in touch with those you love while going to another church. God's blessings.
Thanks for the hug. I sure need it 
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Seeking, you have a beautiful heart and that pleases God. Yes you have grown up in the Lord. You might want to talk to DH about this situation and tell him you'd like to move on. Either that or wear dresses to church all the time. I pray God gives you wisdom in this one.
This is going to sound crazy but I'm concerned I'l be looked at differently if Im seen somewhere else wearing pants. I do wear skirts at church. It has been common place in the pass for women who are members and are in a public place for example; shopping, park,restaurant, and not in a skirt to be addressed about their attire because they should represent the local church and wearing pants anywhere does not represent that local church.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/13/2008 12:30:51 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 95
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
Hello everyone
I am so confused! I don't know what to do or who to ask.
I have been attending a church that believes that women ae not to wear pants because of what is says in Deuteronomy and how pants make women look masculine. For several years, being a baby Christian, I believed this as well. I believed that part of being born again, loving God, and sanctified was that women had to wear a dress or skirt. As I've grown, I've so many, many women who love God, who are born again and sanctified and they wear pants.
Long story short. I do not have a conviction about wering skirts/dresses. I did it because I thought it was a sign of being sanctified and your love for God. I now know that is not true. My confusion coms in the fact that I was told by amember that I could no longer be a member of the church I go to if I wear pants. . . .in or out of church. I'm looking for godly council, not mean spirited advice. These are still my brothers and sisters and I care for and love them deeply.
Thanks
Shalom SeekingT,
Just a thought: If God had great concern about men wearing pants, and women wearing dress', wouldn't He have made men, like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc etc, during the first four or five thousand years, wear pants, so that women, only, could wear dresses? Once upon a time men and women, both, wore, slightly different styles of, for lack of a better word, 'Dresses.' Many Scottish men still do, when in formal dress.
I believe the Bible says that women should not '....dress as a man...' or something like that.
Some Church groups feel that women wearing trousers, constitutes masculine expression of intent.
Follow your heart, but your Church group sounds like a 'Control' group more than a Christian gathering.
Good Luck, however you decide, but remember that your walk is with Messiah, not a group of control types who demand you do this, and do that, to 'earn' your right to say you love Messiah.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and direction. Arley
PS The Church cannot take away your salvation. Don't know why, but something told me to add this as an edit.
_____________________________
In the name of Messiah, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/13/2008 9:14:31 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 238
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
Oh my goodness. Thank you to everyone for your kind and caring words.
This congregation is near and dear to my heart. Oh, I would never disrespct the congreation by coming into the church with pants on.
There is just no liberty to wear them anywhere else that concerns me. I don't want to be considered a non-member just because of not wearing a dress all the time. I've considered leaving but it seems like such a petty matter.
Have you considered just dropping your membership, and continue going?
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/13/2008 11:43:59 PM
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SeekingT
Posts: 13
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
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Have you considered just dropping your membership, and continue going?
Yes, I have considered that option.
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RE: Please Help, I don't know what to do? - 12/14/2008 4:04:02 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 95
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeekingT
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Have you considered just dropping your membership, and continue going?
Yes, I have considered that option.
Seeking,
Wouldn't this option be a 'closed fist' to the face; and do far more damage to your standing in the Church community? This sounds, to me, like a bad option, if can be called an option.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and wisdom. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of Messiah, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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