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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 1:13:09 PM
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christsstar
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I've worked more than one job that required holiday work.
When I worked at the restaurant, it was not a choice, everyone was scheduled. That way no one could complain about being unfair. The most senior employees got the first choice in shift and so on.
When I worked tech support, we rotated. Everyone had to work a holiday or two during the holiday season. We didn't get double time, but we did get another day off some other day of our choosing.
My best friend works at a grocery store. She CHOOSES to work holidays because she gets double time and it gives her a chance to get some other things done (she works the customer service counter where there are other tasks).
My holidays were never sacrificed. I enjoyed every single one of them. We just celebrated on a different day. When I waited tables we opened presents early, ate a nice breakfast, then ate when I got home. It was still Christmas. (I didn't work there yet on Thanksgiving.)
When I worked tech support we just shifted our eating time to after my shift.
My best friend and her family eat after her shift.
DH and I don't get the kids every Thanksgiving, we celebrate it on a different day.
When I was almost married to a pilot, it was understood that we would celebrate on a different day.
While December 25th is the day most often observed and legally recognized, it doesn't make the day any less special to celebrate it on December 26th as long as the meaning is the same in your heart.
Furthermore ... not to be too politically correct ... but I hear a lot of people who don't celebrate these holidays (the Jewish population for instance) get all bent out of shape that they can't do basic things on a day that is just another day to them.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 2:06:26 PM
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doinkdom
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I would imagine with the massive layoffs and threats of layoffs, those with any job to include retailers who open on holidays are thankful. If some of those retailers didn't open on holidays, they could not afford to open any other day of the year either.
So...when we go to a restaurant on a Sunday...we leave a bigger tip because I know those guys ad gals really need their jobs.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 2:09:08 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
I know for most of my father's employees there was "no choice' about where they were going to work if they also wanted to feed their families. Having choices about when and where and how often to work for many people are not always optional. Those are more times than not optional for the wealthier members of a society.
this is AMERICA...we can choose where we work. Around here, if you want to work in a retail store, and be guaranteed to have Sundays off, then there are stores like Weir's Furniture, Hobby Lobby, Mardel's Christian Book Store, the Franklin Covey Store...as well as many others. As far as restaurants, geez...we can start with Chick-fil-a, Del Frisco's, and so many others that are CLOSED on sunday, I can't even begin to start listing them.
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I remember when they did away with our Sunday blue laws.
Doing away with "Blue Laws" was the right thing to do...in our free enterprise/free market society. If you were a business owner, would YOU want the government to tell YOU when you could be open....what you could sell on particular days, and so on? As with most anything else, the less government interference, the better.....Many businesses (be they retail, restaurants or whatever), DO CHOOSE to be closed on Sunday. And, that's fine when they choose to be.....at least it's not the government dictating to them when their business hours will be....
plus "BLUE LAWS" only "acknowledged" the "days of worship" and "holy days" of ONE SPECIFIC religion.....why should a business owner, who does not "subscribe" to that religion, be forced by the government to be closed on a particular day? That sure doesn't sound like America to me!
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 3:11:01 PM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1329
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I have no interest in the government getting involved in this issue. I do not favor a return to the "blue laws". However it would be nice if our society decided that we had better things to do on Sunday than shop. That is not an indictment on anyone, just a wish. Then stores would choose to be closed on Sundays. You can't force families to spend time together anyway, whether Sunday is an off day or not.
It appears that I got people to think on this and that was my main goal. I do not boycott any store, I simply choose not to go. Boycotting is a way of indicting an institution, I don't think stores are evil if they choose to be open on Thanksgiving.
I also hope we never reach the point where Thanksgiving or Christmas is just another day and all stores are open. As a society we need holidays as a respite to our otherwise weary, laboring lives. If other holidays take their place than so be it but society needs to have special days and other (more important) ties that bind. They are becoming loose enough as it is. But that is a completely different topic.
It was also not my intent to judge anyone, I did endeavor to aggressively make my point. People do what they do for different reasons. I just hope all of us look at how others feel before making choices.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 3:44:03 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
Car dealers are still closed on Sundays
in Detroit, there were "limits" placed on dealers as to WHEN they could be open...and how many hours a week they could operate.
WHY?
Such limits are there to prevent people from "shopping around" for the "best deal" as much as they may otherwise like to. As a result, it limits competition.
When a car dealer is open only on saturdays, and perhaps open "late" one or two nights a week, and forced to be closed on Sundays, that limits most people's ability to truly "shop" for a car.
I remember, as a kid, as soon as dad got home from work, we'd all pile in the car....and be out until 10:00 or later, going to a few car dealerships.....(even though, we'd have to be at school the next day, and my dad had to be up early for work the next morning)
totally ridiculous.
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 3:46:27 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
I have no interest in the government getting involved in this issue. I do not favor a return to the "blue laws". However it would be nice if our society decided that we had better things to do on Sunday than shop. That is not an indictment on anyone, just a wish. Then stores would choose to be closed on Sundays. You can't force families to spend time together anyway, whether Sunday is an off day or not.
It appears that I got people to think on this and that was my main goal. I do not boycott any store, I simply choose not to go. Boycotting is a way of indicting an institution, I don't think stores are evil if they choose to be open on Thanksgiving.
I also hope we never reach the point where Thanksgiving or Christmas is just another day and all stores are open. As a society we need holidays as a respite to our otherwise weary, laboring lives. If other holidays take their place than so be it but society needs to have special days and other (more important) ties that bind. They are becoming loose enough as it is. But that is a completely different topic.
It was also not my intent to judge anyone, I did endeavor to aggressively make my point. People do what they do for different reasons. I just hope all of us look at how others feel before making choices.
It just doesn't quite make sense to me to advocate not shopping because people should be home with their families, but then watching television or going to movies or anything else. It takes people working to provide all those things for you on your Thanksgiving and Christmas (and New Year's Eve and Memorial Day and Labor Day and Independence Day). Technically they are missing out on the holiday as well so I'm not sure why you aren't including them in your argument.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:03:42 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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quote:
However it would be nice if our society decided that we had better things to do on Sunday than shop. That is not an indictment on anyone, just a wish. Then stores would choose to be closed on Sundays. You can't force families to spend time together anyway, whether Sunday is an off day or not.
As a family, we DO choose to spend time together.....sometimes we choose to do that AT THE MALL....there, we take the kids ice skating, catch a movie....let the girls go to the "American Girl" store to get new outfits for their dolls, and play there.....to go to the Bass Pro Shop store (our 7 year old's favorite)....and, to give my wife a "day of rest" we almost always eat out on Sundays, as well. It's FAMILY TIME....
I do like being able to shop on my days off of work.
I leave the house at 6:30am, and get home around 6:30pm (i have a long commute)....family time to me is so important, I have "outsourced" the lawn care chores (which used to take up a good part of Saturdays)....
"We" (meaning 'Americans') shop on Sundays, because for most people it IS a day off....and, most people, by the end of the business day, don't want to have to go out again once they get home.
Just south of Fort Worth is a small community....almost entirely Seventh-Day Adventists....their stores are mostly all open on Sundays, but, many are closed on Saturday. That doesn't fit into your "mold" of everyone being closed on Sunday.
ONE THING that is the coolest: I work for a company based in France. Our "vacation/holiday" schedule for 2009 was just e-mailed to us today. And, "President's Day" is ALWAYS a "Day Off" for us. It's not like we're a government agency or anything, nor do we get any of those other "holidays" off (like Veterans Day, or MLK Day, or anything like that).....but, President's Day has become my favorite day off....because 1) the kids are in school, and 2) since all stores and businesses are open, you can get ALOT accomplished, including lunch out with my wife....
quote:
Yes, we need holidays and days off. But we can't force everyone to celebrate the same day.
You can't force families to spend time together.
true...when you see a sign that says, "We're closed on Sundays to give our employees time with their families, etc..etc.."....its pure "marketing".....sure, it sounds all sweet and everything. BUT, you know what those families are doing??? Most likely out shopping and doing errands!....it is their "day off"....
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:17:25 PM
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Rufas2000
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I've never been to the movies on Thanksgiving or Christmas. And I choose not to go for the same reason. As far as TV goes, since I'm not hooked in to a Nielsen box it doesn't matter. No one knows I'm watching. And I would not watch in a heartbeat if it meant that stores or movie theaters or movie rental places would be closed. TV stations need to be available in the event of an emergency anyway.
Curious: anyone know how many people are necessary to run a TV station. Would it be more or less than a typical Walgreens?
I'm not sure why Labor Day, Memorial Day, Fourth of July or New Year's Eve have to do with anything. Those holidays do not have near the widespread appeal of Thanksgiving or Christmas in American culture. I don't see the equivalency there. I wish Fourth of July in particular would rise in the American consciousness to challenge the "big two". There's a reason all Americans can celebrate. What are Americans celebrating on Thanksgiving? And for the most part the only Christ in America's Christmas is Santa Christ.
I'd be interested to read any stories about how places that are open try to celebrate these days. Do they bring dinner in and such? I know these stores and other businesses try their best to make the employee's work experience on these days as pleasant as possible. Higher morale benefits business and besides, these are in general good folks running these businesses, its just their job to make money.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:26:03 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
Curious: anyone know how many people are necessary to run a TV station. Would it be more or less than a typical Walgreens?
On a typical Christmas or Thanksgiving, there will be 20-30 people working at a TV station. That does not include the people working at all the networks whose programming you are enjoying or the people working for the cable or satellite company that provides your signal, unless you are on an antenna.
In cases of emergency, technically you would only need someone working at one TV station or one radio station, so I guess everyone else at all the other stations could go home. Or really technically, I guess you would only need one person in your whole city at either a TV or radio station and they could just broadcast bars or tone until there was an emergency and they needed to announce something.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:33:42 PM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1329
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quote:
Just south of Fort Worth is a small community....almost entirely Seventh-Day Adventists....their stores are mostly all open on Sundays, but, many are closed on Saturday. That doesn't fit into your "mold" of everyone being closed on Sunday.
I concede your point. That's why they don't let me make the rules.
I confess to me there is something romantic about the lifestyle of the 50s and 60s (not just the Sunday thing). I see the world today as too much hustle and bustle and not enough take a breath time.
quote:
As a family, we DO choose to spend time together.....sometimes we choose to do that AT THE MALL....there, we take the kids ice skating, catch a movie....let the girls go to the "American Girl" store to get new outfits for their dolls, and play there.....to go to the Bass Pro Shop store (our 7 year old's favorite)....and, to give my wife a "day of rest" we almost always eat out on Sundays, as well. It's FAMILY TIME....
Sounds great, can I come? I see where you're coming from. I would ask this: how do we get these people into church if they are working? Some may want to go to church but can't. Others may need to go to church. The trend is for businesses to be open on Sunday and that won't change and I'm convinced by your account probably shouldn't.
I think services on alternate nights might fit the bill. It might be easier to get a Thursday night off than a Sunday morning. My church has three Sunday morning services. It helps those who have to go in late morning (11 AM to open the pizza place, check us out at 9) or an early breakfast shift (try the Noon service after breakfast is over) but it doesn't help those working a full day. I think the church needs to find an answer to this question going forward.
I know I off topiced my own thread. Se la vi. (did I even spell that right?)
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:37:47 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
On a typical Christmas or Thanksgiving, there will be 20-30 people working at a TV station.
Is that more or less than the rest of the year? Are they all necessary? Anyway, thanks for the info.
BTW: in most cases holiday or not I wish I was "enjoying" their programming. Holidays more so though, "Home Alone" again? Please.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:40:10 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
On a typical Christmas or Thanksgiving, there will be 20-30 people working at a TV station.
Is that more or less than the rest of the year? Are they all necessary? Anyway, thanks for the info.
They seem to think they're necessary otherwise everyone would be off. It depends on the size of the station, but that would be about a fourth to a third of the total number of employees.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:42:49 PM
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christsstar
Posts: 5162
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
Car dealers are still closed on Sundays
in Detroit, there were "limits" placed on dealers as to WHEN they could be open...and how many hours a week they could operate.
WHY?
Such limits are there to prevent people from "shopping around" for the "best deal" as much as they may otherwise like to. As a result, it limits competition.
When a car dealer is open only on saturdays, and perhaps open "late" one or two nights a week, and forced to be closed on Sundays, that limits most people's ability to truly "shop" for a car.
I remember, as a kid, as soon as dad got home from work, we'd all pile in the car....and be out until 10:00 or later, going to a few car dealerships.....(even though, we'd have to be at school the next day, and my dad had to be up early for work the next morning)
totally ridiculous.
I've never purchased a car in Colorado. However, I've seen my dad purchase several. He LOVED that the dealers were closed on Sundays. He would park on the side street and wander in and out of all the dealers. Just take a nice walk down auto-row and see who had the best deal and the features for which he was looking. Then he'd go in with all his ducks in a row and bargain appropriately.
It used to be a tradition in my family to go to the theatre on Thanksgiving and Christmas. It was the only time we ever went as a family, especially as my sister and I got older and were dating or in college. We went with my sister's boyfriend's family one year. It was fun. Those are fond memories. We weren't football watching people and so watching football all day on Thanksgiving didn't interest us. And that's all that was on TV when you don't have cable. So going to a movie was a good alternative.
I agree with other posters ... if you don't want to work at a place where you might have to work a holiday, don't work there. Thanksgiving isn't necessarily a Christian holiday, nor is it a day to not work. It's a day set aside in US (and Canadian) history to have a meal and be thankful for the harvest and food that we have. As Christians we take this time to thank God for what he's provided for us. But no where does it say that to work is wrong.
And by staying home and 'boycotting' consumerism doesn't keep the employees at home. In fact, having worked those days in the past, it's almost nice to be busy because it makes the day go faster and makes you realize you are there for a reason. Gives the company money so that you may keep your job. Now THAT'S something to be thankful for.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:48:21 PM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1329
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quote:
And by staying home and 'boycotting' consumerism doesn't keep the employees at home. In fact, having worked those days in the past, it's almost nice to be busy because it makes the day go faster and makes you realize you are there for a reason. Gives the company money so that you may keep your job. Now THAT'S something to be thankful for.
Yeah, there's that. Of course its not like I'll buy it on Thanksgiving but no time thereafter. The company will still get my money, I won't let you lose your job! 
This is how forums should operate. A topic is introduced, debated and both sides are presented fervently but pleasantly. I learned from this and its a good thing.
But I'll still be happy if Kmart closes next year for Thanksgiving! LOL.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 4:50:49 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Just do your extra part for people this season (and always if possible) and show extra kindness and smile more. Leave a larger than normal tip...show them you appreciate their 'sacrifice'. If you have time, ask their story. Why did you chose to work today? Regardless of their answer, smile brightly and thank them. It could be the only light they see that day.
Great advice. thank you.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 5:52:38 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Sounds great, can I come? I see where you're coming from. I would ask this: how do we get these people into church if they are working?
Most stores don't open until AT LEAST 12:00 noon on Sundays. Plenty of time for "early church"...(of course, assuming that the employees would be going to church at all!)
Then, our church, while we do have 2 services on Sunday morning, we do offer Saturday nights, as well....
So,there's ANOTHER option...but, there are some churches, who are "diehard" "Sunday ONLY" churches...
Our Saturday evening church is fairly popular for a few reasons: 1) It's "casual". There are alot of people who are "intimidated" by those who "dress up" for Sunday church. On Saturday night, it's entirely "come as you are" (not that Sunday morning is NOT "come as you are", but dressing casually is more "widespread". ALSO, alot of people fly out on Sundays to wherever business meetings take place on Mondays. Thus, Sunday morning is a time to spend "quiet time" with family at home, instead of going to church, and being there until after noon. And, then, of course, we have doctors who are "on call" or working on Sundays.....and others that work or for whatever reason, just can't seem to make it on Sunday morning....
SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT DIRECTION:
At our church, we have a full "food court"....they are open every breakfast and lunch during the week (except Saturdays).......and Wednesday and Saturday evenings for dinner. (So this opens a whole NEW "can of worms"!)....Before or after church, you can have breakfast or lunch...for a reasonable price for VERY good food....(there's a brick oven pizza area....a place to get burgers, sandwiches, chix strips, etc..etc..and, a place to get rotissierie chicken, BBQ, etc..etc..along with salad bar, desserts, etc..etc..)....
When I had an office closer to church, what a great place it was to take a group of co-workers for lunch!....
As a matter of fact, in a few minutes, i am leaving here....my kids have been in children's choir rehearsal for a big choir program this weekend (annual church christmas tree lighting program)....and, I'll meet them there, and we'll have dinner together at church. A great place to fellowship and see friends during the week.
so, they are open on Sundays...though, DURING church, there is "downtime", so perhaps many are permitted to go then. OR, perhaps those who do work on Sundays attend church on Saturday night.
So, that means our church has people working on Sunday. Not sure how they schedule their time.
On Wednesdays, the management of food services has "ESL Bible Studies" (ESL=English as a Second Language) for all of the workers there, who want to participate......
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 6:35:21 PM
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lexie
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quote:
I worked in retail and worked only one Sunday a month and we didn't open until noon as it was so I came in at one. We closed at 6 so I left at 5. *shrug* It can be done.
Again, it also comes down to do you know your labour laws? When I worked retail management, I had to work one Sunday a month as well. Because, by our laws, my workplace can't force me to work on a religious day, I made an agreement with my workplace. I have church on Saturdays and Sundays. I will work my mandatory Sunday, so long as I don't miss the Saturday service the night before. It was easily done, and on the Sundays I went in I never felt like I was being forced to be there.
I used to wish the malls were open on Thanksgiving and Christmas, as I would have gladly worked the shifts for the extra money. Especially since hours are shortened on holidays so I would have been home in time for dinner anyways.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/19/2008 6:50:08 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT DIRECTION:
Sounds like many good ideas. You must have a large church.
As I learn more about what local churches are doing I have more hope that the church will adapt to a changing society.
But thats for a different thread.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/20/2008 2:48:26 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
But again I'm not laying this at the employer's feet but rather I'm wondering if shopping at Kmart (or anywhere) on Thanksgiving day is so important that we would be willing to cause people to miss a day which they look forward to with family and friends. There are only two of them now as it is, soon there may be no days where most stores are closed.
How would one know they are not working voluntarily? Many places pay extra for working at such times. Also, how about the traveler. I found myself away from home with a fuel leak one thanksgiving. There were no mechanics available. I can't remember what I did, but I got through it somehow. What if I have needed duct tape or some other piece of essential equipment. Since we can't count on people to show kindness to strangers as the Scriptures suggest, it might be good to have some stores open.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/20/2008 9:04:56 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT DIRECTION:
Sounds like many good ideas. You must have a large church.
As I learn more about what local churches are doing I have more hope that the church will adapt to a changing society.
But thats for a different thread.
The reason why I brought it up...is that the people working the "Main Street Cafe" area, ALSO are "working" on Sundays....(though, I am certain that their schedules are very flexible, and the people doing the scheduling are very careful to make sure no one is working at a time when they really want to be elsewhere (family, church, etc..etc...)
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/20/2008 9:15:06 AM
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zoebob
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Are these people paid or volunteers? I really shouldn't say much though because for me this is a sabbath issue and a big church issue and those aren't the topics of this thread.
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RE: Stores Open on Thanksgiving or Christmas - 11/20/2008 10:30:49 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Are these people paid or volunteers? I really shouldn't say much though because for me this is a sabbath issue and a big church issue and those aren't the topics of this thread.
oh, no...they are paid people whose job it is to work in the "main street cafe"....an entire staff of people to serve/cook food, run the registers and clean up and everything else...just like any other restaurant....
check it out: http://www.prestonwood.org/cafe.php
anyway...enough of that....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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