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Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/16/2008 9:38:34 PM
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SonicStudent
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Go on then, Muslims, anti-Christ, Israel, faith etc
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/16/2008 9:42:02 PM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
Its becoming clearer to me just what Jesus meant when He said money is the root of all evil. I think you both have points, Sonic and Bob, and I believe Islam will be a big part of the beginning phase of this new world order. However, when all is said and done, there will be some level of tolerance until the fat hits the fan and Antichrist sets himself above ALL that is called god and worshiped. Just my opinion.
Yep, Amen alright! It seems the nations have a struggle for Power and wealth during this transition period, and like you say GOMC, ultimately anti-Christ is going to step-up after all is in place anyway and take over. he's just using mans love of power and money to get the world where he needs it.
quote:
To me the one world government is just a way to centralize power…once that is accomplished (supported by military power, an oil alliance and monetary wealth) what is to keep this beast from demanding whatever he wants?
If it is a seven year process…3 ˝ years to gain control and 3 ˝ years to demand worship of some religion and I’ll kill you if you don’t. If it is only a 3 ˝ year program, it’s all the same scenario isn’t it?
I’m just thinking out loud but these things do seem logical to me. We have to think about where the power comes from and what supports it.
quote:
Christians are slighty different and would be as offended as they believe that we worship not at a central temple, but in spirit and truth????
I don't think it is the Christians we are talking about...they are hooked to Christ, that is if you believe OSAS and they will be the ones laying around without heads because they will not worship something else. Isn't it what happens to unbelieving Israel and gentiles that the program is intended for, them and those who say they are Christians but really aren't?
Bob
It sure looks unlikely that the Muslim's that are in our news every day, with their global mandate, wealth position and the fact that already hold the world in so much fear, that they wouldn't stand out in the end times situation.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/16/2008 9:55:25 PM
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bob97
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Sonic...let me ask you...what is the predominate religion in the EU today? What is the prevailing religion in the UK. I’m asking about the religion that holds the most political power and I don’t think it is the Christian religion. It seems when Christians talk today no one listens. Maybe I’m wrong.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/16/2008 10:06:02 PM
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SonicStudent
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Christianity is still the largest recognised religion in Europe, however, it really doesn't have a lot to say, as it has all but lost its power because of its liberalism and compromise. Although if you walk around UK streets, the majority is easily largely Christian, or recognise themselves as Christian, although Muslim faith is a lot larger than it was.
However, if you were to ask, who shouts loudest and is making more waves and news, without doubt Muslim. The 'born again, bible believing Christians' are seen as weird, radical and not the true Christians. We still get respect for being more devout, but are also largely seen as 'bible bashers!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 12:53:33 AM
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bob97
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The danger of a Russian Islamic alliance;
Russia controls 68% of Europe’s natural gas supplies and 13% of its oil supplies. Russia’s invasion of Georgia placed then within a few miles of the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum pipelines. Russia can disrupt these oil and gas flows anytime it wants - and blame it on terrorists.
Russia has wanted to control the gas and oil pipelines that transport gas and oil from the Caspian countries to European markets - specifically, Moscow wants their oil and gas to go through Russia (as opposed to Georgia or for that matter any other country).
Europe is today held hostage to gas from Russia, but it will eventually have no choice but to develop and pipe Iranian gas. Russia in the mean time is deepening their relationship with Iran, supplying weapons and nuclear technology enhancing Iran’s position in the world.
Russia is becoming more and more interested in jumping under the bed sheets with Iran. In addition to a latent hatred of Western values that gives Iran's a run for its money, slowly Russia is becoming a Muslim nation.
October 29, 2008"Russian-Muslim alliance picks up momentum" from Arab News" reports that members of Russia and Muslim nations met at the Russian-Islamic World Strategic Vision Group’s three-day forum at the Jeddah Conference Palace.
“The first eight years of the 21st century have shown us how a world dominated by one superpower can be dangerous. These eight years have demonstrated that problems cannot be solved by a brute show of force,” said Veniamin Popove, director of the Russian Center for Partnership of Civilizations.
“The balance of power is changing. The world is changing. It is no longer a unipolar world. New centers of power are emerging. Russia is one pole. The Islamic world, led by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is another pole. If we join these two poles then we would have a better leverage on the world stage,” Popove said.
RUSSIA'S Vladimir Putin, must be feeling smug. His strategy of using the country's vast natural resources to restore the greatness lost after the break-up of the Soviet Union seems to be paying off. If power is measured by the fear instilled in others—as many Russians believe—he is certainly winning.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 2:26:09 AM
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Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
Its becoming clearer to me just what Jesus meant when He said money is the root of all evil. I think you both have points, Sonic and Bob, and I believe Islam will be a big part of the beginning phase of this new world order. However, when all is said and done, there will be some level of tolerance until the fat hits the fan and Antichrist sets himself above ALL that is called god and worshiped. Just my opinion.
Yep, Amen alright! It seems the nations have a struggle for Power and wealth during this transition period, and like you say GOMC, ultimately anti-Christ is going to step-up after all is in place anyway and take over. he's just using mans love of power and money to get the world where he needs it.
quote:
To me the one world government is just a way to centralize power…once that is accomplished (supported by military power, an oil alliance and monetary wealth) what is to keep this beast from demanding whatever he wants?
If it is a seven year process…3 ˝ years to gain control and 3 ˝ years to demand worship of some religion and I’ll kill you if you don’t. If it is only a 3 ˝ year program, it’s all the same scenario isn’t it?
I’m just thinking out loud but these things do seem logical to me. We have to think about where the power comes from and what supports it.
quote:
Christians are slighty different and would be as offended as they believe that we worship not at a central temple, but in spirit and truth????
I don't think it is the Christians we are talking about...they are hooked to Christ, that is if you believe OSAS and they will be the ones laying around without heads because they will not worship something else. Isn't it what happens to unbelieving Israel and gentiles that the program is intended for, them and those who say they are Christians but really aren't?
Bob
It sure looks unlikely that the Muslim's that are in our news every day, with their global mandate, wealth position and the fact that already hold the world in so much fear, that they wouldn't stand out in the end times situation.
If I may make one point to the first sentence in the underlined quotation above, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil. We must remember that money, like other objects and tools, is not the source of evil. Evil finds its source in the hearts of sinful people. It always bothers me when blame is hoisted on the object used for evil rather than the person who uses it for evil. This is just like the New Testament debate on whether any food was sinful to eat. The food was not evil, but it was the intentions of the person who ate the food that made it unclean. When Eve ate the fruit, it wasn't the fruit that was evil. It was the disobedience of Eve that was evil. To put it in a more modern analogy: guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I apologize if this interrupts the flow, but I hear this all too often about how money is the root of evil. It's not. It is the love of it. Money, in and of itself, is merely a medium whereby people in a world of scarce goods and resources can make trade and make commerce. Again, I am sorry for my tangent. Sometimes, the economist in me takes over and is compelled to respond.
I believe that the spirit of lawlessness or Satan, himself, is using many of the people's love for money and power to set up what will be his very short breathed kingdom on earth this includes the Muslims.
Each of our societies are currently based on some faulty economic standard. Most of the western world is founded on this fiat monetary house of cards. We, the people, have allowed our governments to set up an economic system that relies on creating money out of thin air in the name of economic growth when it should be based on being productive, entrepreneurial, competitive and sound commodity (i.e. gold or silver) backed currency. The same holds true for Muslim nations, except many of them have held to oil as their economic gold mine. Now, as oil is becoming scarcer and scarcer, many like the UAE are looking to become more service and tourist oriented. Others, like Iran, are shifting their reserves to gold (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/wire.php?view=600). The point of this is that I think for westerners, our submission to the end time one world regime will be a result of the coming collapse of our faulty economic systems. For Islamic nations, their submission will come as a result of their collapsing oil based economies. I don't see them as having anymore significant role in end times than the rest of the nations, Israel being the exception.
< Message edited by Josh4LinC -- 11/17/2008 4:28:00 AM >
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 6:47:05 AM
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girlofmanycolors
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Yes, I was the one who originally posted that, Josh, and I meant to put "the love of money" instead of "money. I actually made the same point you just did in a conversation with my mother yesterday. Money can do a great deal of good, as can the Internet, television, music, you name it. Anything that can be used for good WILL be used for evil and those who love money and power above people are God are certainly using it for evil. I myself know better than to place blame on an object. It was merely a typo.
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 7:00:49 AM
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Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
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Don't sweat it. I've just listened to so much propaganda these days blaming money and any other object used for evil rather than the person themselves. I've never had any real opportunity to let it out, so I guess this became that outlet. I apologize if any of it came across as too forceful. Like I said, I am a student of economics, and it pains me how many people would rather blame money and what-not instead of looking to the real source of these evils. In any case, thank you for responding.
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 8:26:49 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
For Islamic nations, their submission will come as a result of their collapsing oil based economies. I don't see them as having anymore significant role in end times than the rest of the nations, Israel being the exception.
Josh you say we are running short of energy and that is the key to world domination…he who controls the energy source of the world controls the world.
We might be running short of energy but remember this situation will not last forever…maybe only 7 years.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/17/2008 10:05:07 AM
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Josh4LinC
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Amen, brother.
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 12:45:38 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, SonicStudent.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Go on then, Muslims, anti-Christ, Israel, faith etc
The simple answer is, if they form an Islamic state within the borders of Isra'el and it sits in the land currently called the "West Bank," then it sits ON THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL!
It's really bad enough that they have the Gaza Strip given to them because Gaza is where the ancient country of P'lishti existed, the PHILISTINES, which BTW is where the word "Palestine" comes from! Did you know that the Romans PURPOSELY called Isra'el's land "Palestine" to belittle and mock Isra'el and denegrade them?! They purposely called it the Philistines' Land!
I won't quote it here tonight, but I would STRONGLY encourage any born-again believing Christian to look up Ezekiel 36! Read the whole chapter and know that this chapter is talking about many of the cities that you have read about in the Scriptures, places like Shechem, Samaria (where Jesus sat on Jacob's Well), Bethlehem (where Jesus was born), Bethany (where Lazarus was raised to life), Hebron (where David reigned for 7 years), Bethel (the HOUSE OF GOD!), Ai, and Jericho, to name just a few! Do you understand how devastating that would not only be to Isra'el but also to the Christian world?! Imagine no longer being able to make pilgrimages to Bethlehem! Imagine not being able to see the ruins of ancient Jericho! What if the Muslims no longer want us to tour the ancient sites, including areas like Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found? That's part of the West Bank, too! And if you think they wouldn't close their doors to the Christians, look at how hard it is to get a tour of the Dome of the Rock, where they say that Avraham made sacrifice!
The bottom line is that this land, THE LAND, is that Land which was promised to Avraham (Abraham), Yitschak (Isaac), and Ya'acov (Jacob) who was later renamed to Yisra'el (Israel)! It was to the Son of Sarah, not to the bondwoman's son! Later, after the 430 years they spent in Egypt, it was once again confirmed as being given to Isra'el! It did not belong to Ishma'el or to his 12 dukes; it did not belong to Idumea (Edom, the land of Esau); nor did it belong to Moav (the Moabites) or to Ammon (the Ammonites) (the sons of Lot), and it CERTAINLY did not belong to the Canaanites who were to be completely driven out! NONE OF THOSE DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM WERE EVER GIVEN ISRAEL'S LAND TO KEEP! IT'S NOT THEIRS! Furthermore, for them to claim to be "Palestinians" and link themselves with the Philistines, even to inhabiting their cities, such as Gaza, only FURTHER DRIVES THEM FROM ITS OWNERSHIP! Those who call themselves "Palestinians" are REFUGEES from Jordan and from Egypt and from Saudi Arabia and from Syria PLANTED in Isra'el in the 1940s to frustrate Isra'el and keep it from becoming a nation! They are not indigenous to the Mountains of Isra'el or any other part of Isra'el's Land!
The history of these "Palestinians" is that even when they wanted to return to their own countries (because when they got there, the Land was so desolate, thanks to the Romans who salted the ground), THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO RETURN!
Isra'el has been benevolent to other peoples who have come to them seeking assylum because they know what it's like to be without a country or a place to call home, and they would be willing to give them solace if that's what they truly wanted. BUT, that is NOT their goal! Their goal, as the goal of all Muslim nations, indeed the goal of the whole of Islam, is to "drive Isra'el into the sea!" THEY DON'T WANT TO CO-EXIST PEACEFULLY! THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER AND DRIVE ISRA'EL OUT OR TO KILL THEM IN THE ATTEMPT! FROM A CHILD, THEY ARE TAUGHT TO HATE ISRA'EL! IT'S EVEN IN THEIR SCHOOL TEXT BOOKS!
So, if such a "Palestian state" is formed, it will at best be temporary and doomed to be destroyed, even if it has to wait until the Messiah returns. You can be sure that HE will not put up with ANY Goyim in HIS Land!
Retrobyter
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 1:36:58 AM
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Josh4LinC
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Yeah, I look forward to that day when Jesus comes crashing through that eastern gate to the city of Jerusalem. He will walk right through that cemetery and whatever barricades they have constructed there in an effort to obstruct prophecy. However, it is terrible, indeed, the lengths they are going through and will yet go through to diminish the God of the Jews and Gentiles. Yet, in all their apparent attempts to obstruct prophecy and desecrate many of these places we hold as holy places, I think they only serve to validate the Scriptures. I mean, if Mohammed was right about everything, then they certainly have nothing to fear for Allah will give them their justice. Instead, such attempts to invalidate the Jewish and Christian faiths and these other actions only serve to show what I believe is a lack of faith in their god.
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 6:03:35 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
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Islam's place in the end-times is right where other non-believer's places are in the end-times. Nothing special about Islam.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 9:48:59 AM
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jerowhy
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When true conquerors of sin speak Word, everyone and everything is subject to Him that is Jesus' Body. The sheep only listen to Jesus. Strangers are no one to them, they run away. The watchman opens the gate so that they happily follow Jesus who cares for them and protects them in the diaspora will Tender Affection and Love. Wolves act in a certain manner, to devour in packs (for they lack bravery and sincere faith and on the inside they are animals of a certain dark created form; they are ferocious wolves for if they had behaved in a certain manner then they are known to be what they are; we are inner being creation in spirit and will respond and act accordingly) The false spirits of darkness in the spiritual realm cause people to be subject to those forces, but if Jesus sets someone free; then they are free. Remembering, though, that one cannot perceive the true self except in the mirror of Scripture; we cannot not discern and yet must not Judge to condemn. For He is patient with everyone not wanting anyone to perish.
For The True Shepherd of The People and nations below Commands much attention from everyone. The hearts of people are revealed in speaking against the sign of their own sin and what they truly would deserve as a reckoning of a Holy God. It is a reproach to them, even. Some people hate the sign of the punishment due for their own sin. Turning their hearts to do evil in rebellion, thus that punishment may not be long in coming for some.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Sonic...let me ask you...what is the predominate religion in the EU today? What is the prevailing religion in the UK. I’m asking about the religion that holds the most political power and I don’t think it is the Christian religion. It seems when Christians talk today no one listens. Maybe I’m wrong.
Bob
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/18/2008 10:01:57 AM >
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 11:31:52 AM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jerowhy
When true conquerors of sin speak Word, everyone and everything is subject to Him that is Jesus' Body. The sheep only listen to Jesus. Strangers are no one to them, they run away. The watchman opens the gate so that they happily follow Jesus who cares for them and protects them in the diaspora will Tender Affection and Love. Wolves act in a certain manner, to devour in packs (for they lack bravery and sincere faith and on the inside they are animals of a certain dark created form; they are ferocious wolves for if they had behaved in a certain manner then they are known to be what they are; we are inner being creation in spirit and will respond and act accordingly) The false spirits of darkness in the spiritual realm cause people to be subject to those forces, but if Jesus sets someone free; then they are free. Remembering, though, that one cannot perceive the true self except in the mirror of Scripture; we cannot not discern and yet must not Judge to condemn. For He is patient with everyone not wanting anyone to perish.
For The True Shepherd of The People and nations below Commands much attention from everyone. The hearts of people are revealed in speaking against the sign of their own sin and what they truly would deserve as a reckoning of a Holy God. It is a reproach to them, even. Some people hate the sign of the punishment due for their own sin. Turning their hearts to do evil in rebellion, thus that punishment may not be long in coming for some.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Sonic...let me ask you...what is the predominate religion in the EU today? What is the prevailing religion in the UK. I’m asking about the religion that holds the most political power and I don’t think it is the Christian religion. It seems when Christians talk today no one listens. Maybe I’m wrong.
Bob
Sorry jerowhy, I don't see or understand what that had to do with what Bob was asking me? Simple question, what is the main religion in the UK and EU.
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/18/2008 12:18:55 PM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 10:42:30 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, TheosCentric.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Islam's place in the end-times is right where other non-believer's places are in the end-times. Nothing special about Islam.
...EXCEPT that their countries surround Isra'el, and that now the Palestinians, who are obviously Islamic, are trying to conquer Isra'el from within!
You don't find that just a little too close for comfort? And, WHO then is Yeshua` talking to and about in Matthew 25?
Matt 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV
I would submit to you that Yeshua` the King is talking to those nations who did not treat His own people well, and I would also submit that Yeshua` was mainly talking about His LITERAL brothers, the Jews, although believing Gentiles who are grafted into His Jewish Kingdom may be included, NOT primarily this strange thing we call today the "Church!" Remember, "Salvation is of the Jews," and this was before He was taken to the cross! He was not sent but to the lost sheep of Isra'el! So, who's He talking about?
Matt 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
KJV
Retrobyter
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/18/2008 11:18:07 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
Islam's place in the end-times is right where other non-believer's places are in the end-times. Nothing special about Islam.
I in fact find it highly improbable that those adversaries of the ages…those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the map will not be involved in the finial episode of this age. Who else is the principal enemy of Israel?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/19/2008 5:15:22 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, TheosCentric.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Islam's place in the end-times is right where other non-believer's places are in the end-times. Nothing special about Islam.
...EXCEPT that their countries surround Isra'el, and that now the Palestinians, who are obviously Islamic, are trying to conquer Isra'el from within!
You don't find that just a little too close for comfort? And, WHO then is Yeshua` talking to and about in Matthew 25?
Matt 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV
I would submit to you that Yeshua` the King is talking to those nations who did not treat His own people well, and I would also submit that Yeshua` was mainly talking about His LITERAL brothers, the Jews, although believing Gentiles who are grafted into His Jewish Kingdom may be included, NOT primarily this strange thing we call today the "Church!" Remember, "Salvation is of the Jews," and this was before He was taken to the cross! He was not sent but to the lost sheep of Isra'el! So, who's He talking about?
Matt 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
KJV
Retrobyter
He's talking to the Jews, but he's talking about the believers in the kingdom which represents people from all nations. The believers are the sheep, the unbelievers are the goats.
Will there be Muslims in this group? Sure. But there will also be former Muslims. There will be hindus and former Hindus, there will be atheists and former atheists, etc. There will be Jews and former Jews.
I don't think Jesus is talking about those who treated the Jews well. To say so is to commit a seriously grave error of Bible interpretation.
20-25 years ago, people would have said that Communism had the seat of the anti-Christ in the end times. Now it's Islam. Christians are undergoing more persecution from Hindus right now than from Muslims.
Will Hinduism be the new one in 10 years to pick on?
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/19/2008 5:18:49 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Islam's place in the end-times is right where other non-believer's places are in the end-times. Nothing special about Islam.
I in fact find it highly improbable that those adversaries of the ages…those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the map will not be involved in the finial episode of this age. Who else is the principal enemy of Israel?
Bob
The Israelites principal enemy was the Canaanites.
In Jesus' time, it was Rome.
Today, it's considered Islam.
Fact is, Jews and Muslims have lived together peacefully in that land for several centuries before the current nation of Israel was created by the U.N. It wasn't until outside governments came in and said that the Muslims must accept the plundering of their land, that this started.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/21/2008 12:34:53 PM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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The Muslim states were prophesied concerning in Nostrdamus quattrains. A Mohummadean becomes leader, the colors of the 'builders' club as red and black are mentioned as well that they had changed the choosing of their private colors, Lybia is mentioned as well, there are a few more prophesies: one concerning how some (believers) were vexed by the sea at the time of the choosing of a leader.
More importantly, these await the appearance of the false Al-Mahdi and then the return of Jesus Messiah (Al-Mahdi) jointly along with His Chosen First Resurrection Believers in The Millennial Reign.
In Daniel is written regarding national concerns whereby Moab, Ammon (present day Jordan) is delivered from the hand of the false prophet. Currently, the King of Jordan has a Christian wife as Queen which is purported to be what Muhammed did when he married.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Go on then, Muslims, anti-Christ, Israel, faith etc
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/21/2008 5:03:15 PM >
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/21/2008 1:35:30 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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I'm beginning to think that the false Al Mahad which is what many in the Muslim Shia faction are expecting could be the glue that brings this whole thing together. I don't know how it all relates but the only thing holding back the Muslim world is some force that will bring them all together. To date nothing has caused them to unite.
This is certainly the uniting force that Iran is looking and hoping for. They are willing to create chaos to bring this event about.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/21/2008 1:59:10 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
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The Muslim world will never look to someone who calls themself God if that's what's being implied.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/21/2008 3:26:04 PM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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The Muslim World will believe that The Prophet speaks the Very Word of God and Is Announcing regarding Himself through The Son of Man, The Messiah born of the virgin as Prophesied.
For example: I AM was what Moses was told to say to The Children.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
The Muslim world will never look to someone who calls themself God if that's what's being implied.
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RE: Where does a Muslim State sit in End Times? - 11/21/2008 3:56:03 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Theos...do you know who the Muhammad al-Mahdi represents?
He is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will stay on earth seven, nine, or nineteen years (depending on the interpretation[1]) before the coming of the day, Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally "Day of the Resurrection", Who the Muslims believe the will rid the world of error, injustice and tyranny alongside the prophet Jesus.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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