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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/17/2008 8:34:21 PM
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deborlie
Posts: 54
Joined: 8/9/2007
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Why do I get the feeling you are playing games with us.
You'll never find the truth of anything until you unclench your fists.
Seek God, the rest will come.
BJ
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/18/2008 12:11:22 AM
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donofhope
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My brothers and sisters. We should all pray for this lost person, though I do not know if he will embrace the blessings of the lord. With faith the size of a mustard seed, one can be saved. A very brilliant man once said something to the affect of: "It is better to believe in God and be wrong, than not to believe in God and be wrong." Albert Einstein.
I am afraid your figures are wrong about peole in the world that believe that Jesus Christ did live and was crucified. Muslims, the largest religion in the world, believe that Jesus Christ lived and was crucified. They have different beliefs,and they follow Mohomad, but do aknowledge, that Jesus Christ was a great profit and that he did indeed perform miracles, which they downplayed as magic tricks. The very fact that they write about his existance in the Koran. And many followers of this religion, have no reason to affirm Jesus Christ's existance.
"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of jugement than for that town. I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent os doves." Matthew 10:14-16 NIV
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many wil follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. For if God, did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment:" 2Peter 2:1-4 NIV
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." 2Peter 2:20
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/18/2008 12:57:27 PM
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MemorableWoman
Posts: 21
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A ghost! the Holy Spirit is God, whatever God does the Holy Spirit does. The father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/18/2008 1:04:18 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
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From: East Bay Area
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Hi MemorableWoman and welcome to the boards!
_____________________________
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/18/2008 3:18:01 PM
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gr8tful1
Posts: 18
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11arrows
I don't think you ever had a true faith in Christ. (ie you were not a Christian believer for those 30 years). You were practicing a religion, not living out a relationship with God in Christ.
rcjames in his post said it well....you need faith.
My relationship with, faith in, belief in Christ is not dependent on attending a church or my parents beliefs or my family's beliefs or my friend's belief. Take them out of the equation and my faith will continue because I love God. I am in a love relationship with Him and have been for just over 30 years.
When I read my Bible I see a recurring theme. Almighty, sovereign God pursuing a relationship with His creation.
If only you pursued a relationship with God as adamantly as you pursue answers to what really troubles you....you may actually be surprised and find both.
_____________________________
<><
Happiness keeps you sweet, trials keep you strong, sorrows keep you human, failures keeps you humble, success keeps you glowing, but only God keeps you going.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/18/2008 5:34:02 PM
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atruefaith
Posts: 320
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Whoops, sorry, meant to post on another thread.....
_____________________________
A series of short stories depicting the Christian faith....
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 7:04:12 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1313
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Paxton004
I don't believe in Christianity for the following reasons. God created hell. God decided that if people did not follow his laws they would burn for all eternity. God sent his son to die in order for humans to avoid hell. So we are supposed to love him for this despite the fact that he created the rules, he created the punishment and he offered his son as a sacrifice to himself.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? Instead I believe in a universal life forms that all living things are a part of and when we die we merge with it.
And what you say you believe makes even less sense.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 8:18:51 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
Where'd 11arrows disappear to?
He got a time out on another thread from the looks of things.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 8:56:36 AM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Paxton004
I don't believe in Christianity for the following reasons. God created hell. God decided that if people did not follow his laws they would burn for all eternity. God sent his son to die in order for humans to avoid hell. So we are supposed to love him for this despite the fact that he created the rules, he created the punishment and he offered his son as a sacrifice to himself.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? Instead I believe in a universal life forms that all living things are a part of and when we die we merge with it.
This is really a rather backwards understanding of Christian doctrine.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 9:39:49 AM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Paxton004
I don't believe in Christianity for the following reasons. God created hell. God decided that if people did not follow his laws they would burn for all eternity. God sent his son to die in order for humans to avoid hell. So we are supposed to love him for this despite the fact that he created the rules, he created the punishment and he offered his son as a sacrifice to himself.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? Instead I believe in a universal life forms that all living things are a part of and when we die we merge with it.
Well, the problem is that God did not create us for anything other than to live in a relationship with Him. When we are in a relationship with Him, we obey Him out of love. When we do fail, He is willing to forgive us if we confess. The only way to wind up in hell is to not enter into the relationship with Him. If you created something, and it did not fulfill the purpose for what you made it, would you keep it around? When we live outside of relationship with Him, we are not fulfilling our purpose. That is why unbelievers are punished. Our entire purpose is based on our relationship with Him. Read the bible, and look at how God sought to establish a relationship with us, and pursued it throughout history. It was His purpose since Adam and Eve.
Being righteous and just, and wanting what was best for us out of His love for us, is the reason that He created those laws to begin with. They are for our own good. When we break those laws, it causes a break in our relationship with Him, just as it breaks up the relationships we have with others. Every one of the 10 commandments is based on our relationship either with God, or with others. Breaking those laws leads to a break in relationships, especially when it comes to trusting someone.
Since He is righteous and just, when we break those laws, it creates a barrier between us and God. That is the reason that Jesus came to die upon the cross, to tear down that barrier and restore us to Himself. It was an act of love based on the desire to have us respond in love to Him providing us a way to be in a relationship with Jesus without that barrier.
< Message edited by bravjim -- 11/19/2008 9:49:02 AM >
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 11:45:45 AM
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gr8tful1
Posts: 18
Joined: 9/15/2008
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quote:
I don't believe in Christianity for the following reasons. God created hell. God decided that if people did not follow his laws they would burn for all eternity. God sent his son to die in order for humans to avoid hell. So we are supposed to love him for this despite the fact that he created the rules, he created the punishment and he offered his son as a sacrifice to himself.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? Instead I believe in a universal life forms that all living things are a part of and when we die we merge with it.
Paxton004,
In life do you like being able to make choices? Or would you rather be a puppet? I'm thinking if you are like most people you like having the measure of control that being able to make choices provides. God gave us the ability to make choices. Now in giving us the ability to make choices, God created the "possibility" of evil....we however are the one who "actuate" evil in the choices we make. Choices that actuate evil have consequences. The God, whose ways don't make sense to you graciously provided a way for you to escape the consequences of the bad choices YOU made.
Think of it this way:
Someone gives you $100,000. You like having money. So the gift is a good thing. But you take the money and use it to do something illegal. You get caught and are facing prison. So you turn around and blame the person who gave you the $100,000 for the trouble you are in. Why is it that person's fault? They gave you a good gift. You used it for evil.
Then that same person offers to bail you out totally and make it so your offense is off the record.....They don't have to do this, but they want to. But you are still stewing about them giving you the money in the first place that you reject their offer. How much sense does that make?
Oh...for the record...I personally accepted the offer. It was the most sensible thing I have ever done .
_____________________________
<><
Happiness keeps you sweet, trials keep you strong, sorrows keep you human, failures keeps you humble, success keeps you glowing, but only God keeps you going.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 12:30:53 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16935
Joined: 2/28/2005
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Paxton004
Welcome to Forums!
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 8:30:55 PM
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donofhope
Posts: 8
Joined: 11/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Paxton004
I don't believe in Christianity for the following reasons. God created hell. God decided that if people did not follow his laws they would burn for all eternity. God sent his son to die in order for humans to avoid hell. So we are supposed to love him for this despite the fact that he created the rules, he created the punishment and he offered his son as a sacrifice to himself.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? Instead I believe in a universal life forms that all living things are a part of and when we die we merge with it.
I welcome you Paxton004. In all of the wonderful and amazing things God has created, the one that stand out the most of all for me, is the greatest of all. Before I tell you what it is, I want you to think for a moment.... If you are a parent or maybe you can think about your own parents. As parents, we love our children and we want all the best things for them. We want to help them thru lifes challenges and we want to tak away their pain. We want them to do good things, and we feel hurt if they do bad things. Sometimes we are demanding with them and sometimes we let them decide. There are choices and consequences with everything in life, good and bad. If we choose not to go to work, we might not have a job, consequence. We choose to do good things because we have a moral conscience, and this was no accident. God is the father of us all. His son Jesus Christ, was god himself in the flesh, so that he could have a closer relationship with us all. And so that he could show us that as flesh if he could bear so much suffering, then we could bear what came our way, because he would not let us suffer more than we could bear, and that he would be with us. The most important thing he ever created is "free will". We are not puppets, we are not forced to follow Gods way. We have free will and the choice is ours. We are often refered to in the bible as the flock. We are as sheep, God does not choose to drive us, but he leads us on the right path if we choose to folow him. If a man pushes an elderly woman out of the way of a bus, is this a good thing or bad thing? If a man pushes an elderly woman in front of a bus, is this a good thing or a bad thing? In both scinarios an elderly woman get pushed by a man. The action is the same. Yet most will recognize one as good and the other as bad. If God is not in us steering us to know right from wrong, how do we know?
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/19/2008 11:36:05 PM
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levimichal
Posts: 51
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Christiansted, Virgin Islands live in Minneapolis
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You know what I can give cold hard facts but you know what you are another one of those false converts believing their a Christian when the truth is that it was skin deep. Sorry but you are another one of those cases that a decision does not a "Christian" make.
Twelve Apostles were tortured to death would they die for a lie.
_____________________________
Levita Michal Ayala Goeloe
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/20/2008 4:58:43 PM
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gibbin
Posts: 12
Joined: 5/9/2008
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hi eleven!
wow--- i'm really glad to hear that you are not "married" to yer beliefs and would switch them in a heart beat---
unfortunately--- i have found christianity to be rather "illogical"---though true, so please don't let a lack of logic keep you from Jesus---
( behold most "truth" seems illogical! we are a collection of atoms! we are not actually "solid" ! seems highly illogical--- none the less---true)
as for the "TRUTH" of the bible--- i was skeptical---- even after being "born again" i would look through the bible trying to disprove it---and when i would run into a "hole" i would take it to God and say "OK---surely this is one!"
and He would explain it---often through a patient bible answer guy---or
another person----or sometimes insight would come.
i was FURIOUS when i saw the two apparently contradictory proverbs---right next to each other---- i flipped.
the more i dug into it---the more i saw that it is actually true --- i could not poke holes in it any longer--
( though for a while i would try)
what i thought were paradoxes were in fact inherent truths held together in tension---
ie: to live one must die---- to win the world is to lose one's very soul--- to answer a fool acording to his folly and to not answer a fool acording to his folly----which is it?
BOTH!
AAARRRRGGGHHH
-and as the Holy Ghost would lead me i would be more and more amazed at that book---- the book that reads YOU----
wow--- i am thrilled with the way that book can convict me of something bad i thought 5 seconds ago---or sometimes tell me something that will happen that day....
it's weird---
He talks to me through it.
once i was praying "Lord that was soooo dumb! i can not believe that i was soooo dumb! etc..."
i opened the bible--- the heading read "JESUS HEALS THE DUMB MAN"---
i wept with joy...
as i see more and more interesting science ehgarding a young earth---i am almost convinced to be a "litteral day"-ist!
as i read more and more about biblical archeology---any qualms that i may have had about tyre or any other geological bugaboo are dried up---
it turns out--the book is true!
He may have even had you on this journey---why---i dunno---it bugs me the way God works sometimes----ok often.
He kept me out of the church more or less til i was 32---then brought me into a really lousey church! why? what if i just went back to witchcraft?
He knew i wouldn't---and He knew that He could bring folks like us in later---to even help clean up His poor old church...
weird but true.
so---how do i KNOW? experience, and study---and i guess historical facts....
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/22/2008 1:56:49 AM
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vonzip2000
Posts: 9
Joined: 5/28/2007
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"More than a Carpenter" is a book by Josh McDowell which will give you all the answers you need. It will give you evidence that backs up the Bible and Jesus.
I do not mean any dis-respect to you, however, giving yourself the title of Christian is a dangerous game to play. You may have a Bible and go to Church but are you a true believer and deciple of Christ? Have you really felt the Holy Spirit work in your heart? If you have, I find it hard to believe a few mean Christians can make you walk away from God almighty!
If you are in a forum such as this, perhaps it is the Holy Spirit nudging you towards a fullfilling life that is centered on Christ and Christ alone.
Find a good Church that backs all it's teachings with the Holy Bible and no other book, find a good Christian mentor.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 1:05:42 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 202
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From what I see here, 11 arrows wants EVIDENCE, not books. Archealogical facts don't appease him, nor do other books. Faith is defined as "believing without seeing". The Pharisees kept demanding proof from Jesus that he was the Son of God, despite the many miracles He performed. As Jesus stated, even if he gave the Pharisees proof, they would still not believe.
I don't think ANY amount of proof will convince 11 arrows.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 1:24:43 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
Where'd 11arrows disappear to?
(Exo 15:12) Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them.
With the "Thou" being our estemed modarators.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 1:47:38 PM
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heavencomedown
Posts: 65
Joined: 11/7/2008
From: Seattle, Wa.
Status: offline
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Im thinking 11arrows is messing with us. Something just isnt right .. how can one claim to be a Christian for that long then claim to have questions??? among other things..
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 2:04:50 PM
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jmjphe
Posts: 102
Joined: 4/29/2008
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Ya know there is something I've found with people. WHen I was growing up I was never in a "religious" house hold. I didnt go to curch but a few times growing up, didnt say grace, and wasnt really involved in the body of Christ. I came to Christ and humbled my heart on my own accord later on really without alot of family or community influence. Did I have serious questions about the bible...absolutley! Did I find the truth....absoltuley! God revealed truths to me as a sought him. Ultimatley what I'm saying here is that something I've noticed is certain indivuals will be brought up in a CHristian household and on that merit alone feel they are Christian, and ( I hate saying it like this) accept Christ because they are supposed to.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 2:24:39 PM
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jmjphe
Posts: 102
Joined: 4/29/2008
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Something I want to add here..when the internet skeptics would get me down I found a number of excellent informative resources that put it to rest...I say WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS IF ITS ALL BOGUS! It's obvious that after thousands of years the cross is still just as true as just as powerful! Listen to this, just now, I kid you not (I'm on AIM messanger) I was talkiing with my good friend of mine and we were discussing a mutual friend who went down a rough path of drinking, prescription drug addictions, rough lifestyle and mentality in general..He found god, and rid himself of the lifestyle he lived and has been attending church...I can assure you this individiual was never brought up in a Christian household...A relationship with God through Jesus Christ is not some result of wishful thinking, CHrist is the way, the truth, and the light.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/24/2008 6:48:05 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 910
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jmjphe
Something I want to add here..when the internet skeptics would get me down I found a number of excellent informative resources that put it to rest...I say WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS IF ITS ALL BOGUS! It's obvious that after thousands of years the cross is still just as true as just as powerful! Listen to this, just now, I kid you not (I'm on AIM messanger) I was talkiing with my good friend of mine and we were discussing a mutual friend who went down a rough path of drinking, prescription drug addictions, rough lifestyle and mentality in general..He found god, and rid himself of the lifestyle he lived and has been attending church...I can assure you this individiual was never brought up in a Christian household...A relationship with God through Jesus Christ is not some result of wishful thinking, CHrist is the way, the truth, and the light.
Amen to that. Jesus is the way.
Jesus is a life changer.
The proof 11arrows was looking for lies in all of us.
The proof lies in the fact that addicts, adulterers, liars, cheaters, and all other types of sinners are changed when they meet Jesus face to face.
Now maybe not all are changed due to the sincerity of their search, or their own weakness(change is hard), but I would guess that everyone who is born again, everyone of us who has been freed from some sort of life killing sin, gives the honor and glory to Jesus Christ.
I know at times we may not be the best witness of that change, I am not the best witness of that change at times, and we are not perfect, but we know what we are and that is a sinner saved by the grace and blood of Jesus Christ.
The proof is us.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/27/2008 10:22:14 PM
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anicecupofcoffee
Posts: 104
Joined: 11/27/2008
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Beyond the evidence for the Bible's correctness (manuscript evidence) and its historicity (archeological evidence), the most important evidence is that of its inspiration. The real determination of the Bible's claim to absolute inspired truth is in its supernatural evidence, including prophecy. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word and God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate His messengers. For example, in Genesis 12:7, God promises that the land of Israel was to be for Abraham and his descendants. In 1948 Israel was returned back to the Jewish people for the second time in history. This may not seem so astonishing until you realize that no nation in the history of the world has been scattered from its homeland and returned! Israel has done it twice. The book of Daniel predicts with accuracy the coming of the four great kingdoms from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, to Rome centuries before some of those kingdoms came on the scene (a time span of over 1,000 years!) with details concerning how they would rule and be broken. This includes the reigns of Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies.
In Ezekiel 26 we can see in astonishing detail how the city of Tyre was to be destroyed, how it would be torn down, and how its debris would be thrown into the sea. When Alexander the Great marched on that area, he encountered a group of people holed up in a tower on an island off the coast near there. He could not cross the sea, so he could not fight those in the tower. Rather than wait them out, the proud conqueror had his army throw stones into the sea to build a land bridge to the tower. It worked. His army crossed the sea and overthrew the occupants of the stronghold. But where did he get so much stone? The rocks that were used for the land bridge were the leftover rubble from the city of Tyre . . . its stones cast into the sea!
There are so many prophecies concerning Christ (over 270!) Further, Jesus would have had no control over many of them such as His birthplace or time of birth. Second, the odds of one man accidentally fulfilling even 16 of these are 1 in 10^45. How many is that? For comparison, there are less than 10^28 atoms in the entire universe! And Jesus, who affirmed the Bible as the Word of God, proved His reliability and deity by His resurrection (an historical fact not easily ignored).
Yet, my friend, to truly understand that the bible is "real", you yourself must believe. There is so much evidence as to it's authenticity. I don't know where you've been looking for answers? But it's possible you've been short-changing your research by not truly digging in and studying the various sources available to you. There are facts all over the internet and in books (even some of the historical accounts of the early Christians, written by eyewitnesses during that period i.e Flavius Josephus etc.). But the best suggestion I can give is to pick up a bible and begin reading. It's apparent you haven't done this one thing that will convict your spirit that the bible is true!
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