|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 11:22:35 PM
|
|
|
Kevfisher
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kevfisher
I challenge you to pray this simple prayer:
"Lord God, If you are real I ask you to reveal the truth of the bible to me. I am struggling to understand the truth of the bible and have been shown alot of different information that has made me question whether the bible is really the 'word of God'. IF it is real I ask that you confirm it for me so that i may know you."
I believe that God will answer that prayer for you. We humans do not have all of the answers that people are seaching for but God, and only God does.
I hope you give it a shot! If God isnt real it wont hurt at all, but if God is real you may get the answer you are looking for (if you are really searching for the answer)!
Im praying for you!
Ok, I'm being completely sincere and honest here. I said this prayer twice. And I said it VERY open minded. I know you people will say "you must not have" but I really did. And nothing happened. I really want this ghost to speak to me. I mean that with all my heart. If their is a talking ghost who can tell me whats true and what not, I want to hear him more then anything on earth.
It just seems like, according you you guys, if the talking ghost doesn't choose you to talk to, then your unlucky. Am I expected to believe in the ghost before he will talk to me? If so how am I suppose to believe a ghost is real before I have any proof he is real? It just doesn't make any sense.
Somebody correct me if Im wrong here: The "talking Ghost" is not the first step so to speak...The first is coming to Jesus Christ and accepting him as your savior. Then the Holy spirit is given and resides in you. (at which time you will know it) So until you have accepted Jesus as your savior you will not know the prescence of the Holy Spirit. So that means there is one and only one, way to know. Until them you are 'of the world' and thus are not capable of knowing the Holy Spirit.
Also I think the Son of God Crucified for the sins I have and will commit in this life out of the the LOVE of his Father is more important than a "talking Ghost".
11Arrows if you have prayed that prayer then the journy you are on may be the way the Lord is leading you to your answer!! Its sounds like the Lord knows that you will not be conviced until you exhausted every "worldy" argument against the Bible through research. This whole post maybe the begining of a journy that will ultimatly bring you to your knees before God. When it happens I cant imagine how studied you will be and capable of helping others that are struggling with the same Question you are.
Once again though.....Although there have been plenty of post on here that are EXTREMELY WISE and could answer those questions for you Ulitmatly God is the only one that can lead you to the answer of your question!! And I do Believe that God is Leading you to your answer as I type this.
Can I ask you where you were taught the arguments you have used through out this whole post? It sounds like you have had some serious false teachers that have lead you astry......my 2cents??
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 11:33:36 PM
|
|
|
MyCatSmokey2006
Posts: 3170
Status: offline
|
11arrows, I didn't have time tonight to read the whole thread, but I've subscribed to it and will come back to try to answer your questions at another time.
I've been a Christian for many years and still have many questions, so I recently found THIS SITE, which should be able to help you get answers to some, if not all of your questions.
Take care and God bless you as you continue your search for truth!
_____________________________
Melissa
<---Smokey
Tribute to a Good Friend (Blog Entry)
MY CAT POST
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 12:03:56 AM
|
|
|
internetwraith
Posts: 14
Joined: 11/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
The "talking Ghost" is not the first step so to speak...The first is coming to Jesus Christ and accepting him as your savior. Then the Holy spirit is given and resides in you. (at which time you will know it) So until you have accepted Jesus as your savior you will not know the prescence of the Holy Spirit. So that means there is one and only one, way to know. Until them you are 'of the world' and thus are not capable of knowing the Holy Spirit.
Seems bizarre that you must first accept Jesus as your savior BEFORE the Holy Ghost CAN show you that the contents of the Bible is true... What? Am I seriously the only one here that finds that logic unusual!
Basically, you must first brainwash yourself into believing it's true, before you can be convinced it is true. That what you're saying?
**sigh**
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 12:11:04 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3636
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
Seems bizarre that you must first accept Jesus as your savior BEFORE the Holy Ghost CAN show you that the contents of the Bible is true... What? Am I seriously the only one here that finds that logic unusual!
Basically, you must first brainwash yourself into believing it's true, before you can be convinced it is true. That what you're saying?
**sigh**
There is enough in the bible that is objective and verifiable fact that you can truly spend a lifetime verifying the truth if you so choose to do so; there is no brainwashing required on your part to verify the validity of the historical record presented in Scripture. There are aspects of the Scripture that are relational in nature and will never be understood by those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior, but these are things that won't be disproven by a honest and critical examination of the evidence. So, go ahead and take a look, I am confidant that Scripture will stand up to the scrutiny.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 12:26:28 AM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
As stated in my previous post. Look at Israel which has ceased to exist as a nation in AD70 at The Fall of Jerusalem. Israel came back as a nation in 1948. Israel did not exist as a nation for approx. 1878 years. I can think of no other nation which has ceased to exist and has come back into existence after so long a period of time. Can anybody provide another example? Not only does Israel exist today as a nation which is self rule and undivided, which has not happened since the time of Soloman. Israel exists in the same spot it existed in the time of Soloman and even before. It is only smaller. Israel did not relocate. Add to that many Israeli's immigrated to their homeland out of Stalinist Russia. One of the most brutal and repressive regimes in the 20th century if not all of human history. Stalinist Russia was not known for letting people out but for keeping them locked in.
Next study Ezek.37 which describes Israel as coming back as a nation undivided and self rule and compare it to Matthew Henry's Commentary (one source) on Ezek 37. Matthew Henry writing in 1706 predicts the coming together of Israel, undivided and self rule to their homeland. In 1706 Israel did not exist. Based on Ezek 37 Israel will either do one of two things in the future. Increase in strength and land mass. They will be run over and will be, once again dispersed amongst the nations. Not sure about the latter as i have not studied this aspect. Since Ezek 37 is only partially fullfilled in our time there is much we already know about its future. Fact: U cannot dispute Israel ceased to exist as a nation in AD70. Fact: U cannot dispute Israel came back as a nation in 1948. Fact: U cannot dispute Matthew Henry predicted all this in his commentary of Ezek 37, 300 or so years ago when Israel did not exist. There is ur one example in which u will ignore because u simply cannot explain it away. If u take the time to read Christian writers from the 1800s u will find many expected the rebirth of Israel as a nation as a future event and as a sign of the end of times. I have a book in my collection entitled Prophecy and Religion, by John Skinner from 1922. Chapter 16 of this book is entitled... The Future of religion (continued): 11 The Restoration of Israel. In 1922 Israel did not exist.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 4:42:04 AM
|
|
|
Little_1
Posts: 1589
Status: offline
|
11arrows, I notice that you have not answered my question so I have posted it again below for you.
What are the real intentions behind your questions? Relationship, proof or debate? If it is debate - there are plenty more sites online which are specifically aimed for people who want to do such and likewise if Christians on here wanted to debate, they would use such sites also. Just a thought. 
A text which is fast coming to mind is "not to cast ones pearls before the swine." People who debate don't want truth - they just trample the Lord's precious Word underfoot and I am saddened that this thread is fast giving the impression that it one such thread. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
Hi again 11arrows
I have experienced the truth of Romans 10:13, i.e. "whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" and this is how I know I believe God's Word.
However if you read the verses after verse 13, I think you may find the reason why so many people are discouraged and disolusioned in their search to know if there is a God; also why so many of their questions go unanswered.
[i]Romans 10: 13-18
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“ How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard?
You see, some people don't want to 'hear' what God has to say to them - they just want the signs and wonders (miracles) to prove He exists. God is not interested in such - He has already given them signs and wonders in the beautiful creation around them. God is interested in them wanting to hear His Word - then He will give them spiritual sight to see (and this is a miracle because He can make the 'spritually blind' to see) but first things first with God!
When I called out to the Lord to show me if He was real (and I'm sure so many other Christians onsite will agree with me), I did so because I wanted His help in my life and this meant I was willing to listen to what He had to say to me - I was desperate to know Him and nothing else; I didn't go looking for miracles and signs, but rather the Lord's love, help and forgiveness.
Perhaps you need to ask what the motives are behind your questions, i.e. do you sincerely want a relationship with the Lord Jesus or do you just want proof of His existence? If it is the latter then you will always question.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 11/16/2008 4:58:01 AM >
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 4:45:44 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
My first question is "Why do you believe the Bible is True?"
I believe the Bible to be true because no one has proven otherwise.
Do you question the existence of all historical documents, or just the Bible?
Why do you think you were a Christian? It can't be because that is how you were raised. I was raised by in an atheistic home, but that didn't make me an atheist.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 5:04:17 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kevfisher
I challenge you to pray this simple prayer:
"Lord God, If you are real I ask you to reveal the truth of the bible to me. I am struggling to understand the truth of the bible and have been shown alot of different information that has made me question whether the bible is really the 'word of God'. IF it is real I ask that you confirm it for me so that i may know you."
I believe that God will answer that prayer for you. We humans do not have all of the answers that people are searching for but God, and only God does.
I hope you give it a shot! If God isn't real it wont hurt at all, but if God is real you may get the answer you are looking for (if you are really searching for the answer)!
I'm praying for you!
OK, I'm being completely sincere and honest here. I said this prayer twice. And I said it VERY open minded. I know you people will say "you must not have" but I really did. And nothing happened. I really want this ghost to speak to me. I mean that with all my heart. If their is a talking ghost who can tell me whats true and what not, I want to hear him more then anything on earth.
It just seems like, according you you guys, if the talking ghost doesn't choose you to talk to, then your unlucky. Am I expected to believe in the ghost before he will talk to me? If so how am I suppose to believe a ghost is real before I have any proof he is real? It just doesn't make any sense.
edited by moderator TOS 5
Unless I've missed my mark about you, I think you are intelligent enough to know that a prayer without any heart is nothing more than a bunch of words.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 8:07:59 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 1313
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
And to claim something is fact when most people on earth do not believe they are facts is not truthful. Like claiming Josephus is a forgery as a fact? I seriously doubt that most people on earth even know who Josephus is much less that its a forgery. How is that a fact and accepting the proofs for the Bible are opinion?
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 9:14:49 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3636
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
Now, the fact that you know Josephus is a forgery, (or "interpolation" if that word makes you feel better about the lies of the early Church fathers) then why do Christians still use it?
I didn't see this one until it was quoted in the previous post. First, no scholar that I am aware questions the entire work of Josephus as a forgery, but some do question only the passage that mentions Jesus. Second, many of the same scholars who originated the theory that this passage was a late emendation of Josephus' work (based on higher criticism) also believed that the book of Isaiah didn't take its current form until as late as the 4th or 5th century AD. The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls has demonstrated quite clearly that these scholars were wrong. In light of the DSS discovery the reaction of liberal scholarship has been 1) to reject the validity of the DSS discovery until overwhelming evidence required them to accept it as genuine. 2) To push back their theories about how the OT was developed by almost 1000 years rather than admit their theory was wrong, 3) To continue to accept as "fact" those other fictitious claims for which an original manuscript has not yet been found to prove the theory contrary to fact.
The fact is that no scholar has proven that the Josephus passages in question was an early church forgery; there has been no discoveries of manuscripts that has demonstrated this claim. This is a theory posited by higher critics, it is not a fact. Here is an example of the "scholarship" of Dean Milman, one of the early proponents of the Josephus "forgery", as he was writing about the Hebrew text of Isaiah. Published in his book on Isaiah in 1870 just after his death. Note: that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has proven beyond a doubt that almost all of his (and other liberal scholars) conjecture about the nature and reliability of the OT texts was wrong, and yet he begins by arguing that the evidence is so overwhelming that "No justification will be required by scholars of the prominence given to conjectural emendation in the present version of Isaiah"
"No justification will be required by scholars of the prominence given to conjectural emendation in the present version of Isaiah. The text of the Old Testament, it is well known, is far from being as satisfactorily ascertained as that of the New. There are but few Hebrew MSS. of so early a date as the ninth and tenth centuries, and even these, so far as they have yet been collated, seem to throw hardly any light on the most obscure passages. Some interesting readings have been published by Dr. Pinner 1 from MSS. formerly at Odessa, and now at St. Petersburg, and by Professor Chwolson 2 and M. Neubauer 3 from a Firkowitz MS. in the Russian Imperial Library. An useful summary of the principal various readings known previous to the discovery of these most ancient MSS. may be found in Dr. S. Davidson's work, entitled ' The Hebrew Text of the Old Testament revised from Critical Sources,'
London, 1855.
In conjectural emendations of the text we have not been guided solely by the hazardous desire for originality. We have borrowed some from Ewald, and others from earlier critics, and have always been glad to appeal to the authority, when this might be obtained, of the ancient versions. But the versions themselves are encumbered with countless textual errors, and until really critical editions of the Septuagint and the Targums are produced we shall not be able to employ them with any confidence as guides to the Hebrew original. And at the best they give but a doubtful assistance, for, as Professor Max Muller has well remarked, ' the idea of a faithful literal translation seems altogether foreign to the Oriental mind V Safer though less brilliant results may be gained from the best Arabic-writing Jewish commentators, whose works are still for the most part unedited. "
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 9:21:34 AM
|
|
|
kmangel
Posts: 443
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
What I believe is that the Bible is not everything we know about God. It is what we need to know, though. It is a history of salvation--God's plan all along to save the people He created. There's no doubt much more about God that is not contained in the Bible. The Bible gives us a picture of who we are, why we are here on this planet, and where we are going after we die. The Bible in essence is all about Jesus start to finish. If there was no Bible, do you think people would come up with the idea of Jesus on their own? I don't think so, hence the Bible. Whether there is a Bible or not in our world, the way to being saved is Jesus. The thing is I don't think people would come up with God's plan without God intervening to speak to us, first in the Old Testament and then through the New Testament. It's not that the plan wouldn't be in effect either way. Jesus would have still come, lived and died, but we would be hard pressed to know about Jesus apart from the Bible.
There are basicly two views people have of God. Either people have to work their way to making themselves acceptable to God through their own goodness or God reaches down to people and touches them through His love. Which way do you believe? Is going to Heaven all about what you do or what Jesus has already done for you? Whether you believe everything in the Bible is true or not, that's what it all boils done to--Jesus. There are plenty of religions to choose from. Religion is man's attempt to reach up and become acceptable to God by living a good life, keeping certain rules or by keeping the ten commandments. There are some religions that teach that this cannot be accomplished in one lifetime, so we have to live many lives until we are finally good enough to make it into heaven. Then there is Jesus. God reached down to us and touched us through His love in the person of Jesus. Jesus lived the perfect life we cannot live. Jesus came into time and space to be perfection for us. He lived the perfect life we could not live in our place. Then He suffered and died to pay for our sins--the debt we could not pay. This is the Good News of the Bible.
You have a choice. We all do. You can try to merit your own salvation by seeking to be the best person you can be in order to appease God or accept His gracious offer of Jesus Who did all the work in your place. Perfection is the key. One way or the other, perfection is the ultimate goal. We can either try to achieve perfection through our own imperfect acts of goodness or accept Jesus' gift of suffering the wrath of God on our behalf. I chose Jesus. What a load off my shoulders, too. No more trying to be what I can never be--perfect. I gained knowing that God loves me--that I am of great worth to Him. His desire and love for me to be with Him forever began before He ever created me. You too. It took me 43 years to discover this love God always had for me, but I am so glad it finally dawned on me.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 10:25:24 AM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
but I am not going to take all the time to pull all of those verses out of the bible and back them up with the facts straight from the history books if you are not going to take the time to prove it is false.
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Of course your not. This is what Christians do. They make statements and then don't back them up. This thread has shown that again and again. Even though you are specifically mandated by your God to spread the word to those seeking answers. You can't be bothered to do it. Because you are a typical Christian. with that attitude, you better hope I'm right and your wrong. Because if your right, you need to read about how God feels about Christians who can't be bothered to take the time to stand up for him. Not pretty.
And yes, I can historically point out that there is no historical evidence the exodus ever happened. Most scholars believe that if you had that number of people roaming around the desert for 40 years, we would have found some evidence of it. But non has ever been found, not a scrap. Leading most scholars to doubt the Exodus ever happened. Now if you want to believe it happened without any evidence what so ever, that's your right.
Greetings,
quote:
Of course your not. This is what Christians do Exactly, we Saints....are not commissioned to prove anything... to unbelievers
Joh 6:44 - Show Context
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him (Ex 3:14)....., and I will raise “him”… up …at the last day.
Ex 3:14 - Show Context
God said to Moses, "~I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: '~Iam has sent me to you.'"
quote:
Of course your not. This is what Christians do. They make statements and then don't back them up. This thread has shown that again and again
This thread by the examples being given speaks loudly enough and you have shown nothing otherwise.
quote:
And yes, I can historically point out that there is no historical evidence the exodus ever happened
You can prove nothing, because I can still remember the day I was delivered and it wasn't by a scholar 
quote:
Most scholars believe that if you had that number of people roaming around the desert for 40 years, we would have found some evidence of it. But non has ever been found, not a scrap.
Like I mentioned in my first post… God does not speak to scholars let alone lead them to any viable evidences.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9 "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10 "You are Israel's teacher " (scholar) said Jesus, …….."and" in addition to being a (scholar).... do you not understand these things?
LOL!!
So much for education …but it seems it is nothing new.
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible
There is no such thing… That’s an
oxymoron. 
a phrase in which two words of contradictory meaning are used together for special effect, e.g. "wise fool" or "legal murder"
But many called "themselves" Christian
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 11:18:56 AM
|
|
|
growingseed
Posts: 149
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
|
That's an interesting thought (Former Christian), so you were by all purposes of the law doing all the outward signs of what your belief values of Christianity were to you. Yea! Thinking that somewhere in these have too's that salvation could be had, or at least have some sense of grace of being saved?
The beauty of faith lies in that which God reveals himself, it's because he has put himself into you, you see that we must have his spirit in us for us the believe in him who is spirit.
Sense converses with things sensible and present, reason is a higher guide, which by save deductions can infer the operations of causes and certainty of events. Faith ascends further still, assure us of an abundance of particulars that sense and reason could never have found out, credit of revelation is the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11:1
I believe most people don't get it is because the cut and paste scriptures to fit their theology making the easiest of things harder to understand. Jesus leads us on a road that requires a heart change, this is pointed out in John 3, all of man's reasoning factors at there highest levels is represented in a fellow called Nicodemus. How we are to worship Jesus explains in John 4, he says that we are to worship the father in spirit, but being in an intellectual world is a world of flesh, which is why most don't get it.
I believe because once i have practiced Jesus teachings there is power beyond my understanding at work in me and life around me, experiencing an awareness that leaves sense behind the last turn of reasoning. It's easier to admit that everthing i see is beautiful because God is in CONTROL.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 11:24:27 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
If so, instead of pawning me off on other authors, you, personally, tell me what you have found that is smoking gun proof. Because I have not found any. Truthfully, there is no smoking gun empirical evidence that the Bible is true. It is an issue of faith. Also, most of the sources you've been referred to here tend to be very evangelically apologetic and supportive of the views held in the evangelical community. I would suggest that you also read some more mainstream scholars for another view, if you haven't already done so.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 6:37:59 PM
|
|
|
JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline
|
11arrows,
Forgive me, but you seem to be equating evidence with conclusive proof. They really aren't the same thing.
How can there be conclusive proof for anything supernatural? If a miracle happened right in front of you, you might easily dismiss it as a delusion, or a trick of the eyes, or any other natural thing. By definition, the supernatural is beyond natural perception. Your expectation of proof for supernatural events is unreasonable.
If you are going to dismiss the existence of the supernatural out-of-hand, then you are prejudiced in your research and will never reach an honest conclusion.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 8:47:15 PM
|
|
|
bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: internetwraith
quote:
The "talking Ghost" is not the first step so to speak...The first is coming to Jesus Christ and accepting him as your savior. Then the Holy spirit is given and resides in you. (at which time you will know it) So until you have accepted Jesus as your savior you will not know the prescence of the Holy Spirit. So that means there is one and only one, way to know. Until them you are 'of the world' and thus are not capable of knowing the Holy Spirit.
Seems bizarre that you must first accept Jesus as your savior BEFORE the Holy Ghost CAN show you that the contents of the Bible is true... What? Am I seriously the only one here that finds that logic unusual!
Basically, you must first brainwash yourself into believing it's true, before you can be convinced it is true. That what you're saying?
**sigh**
Funny way of saying it, brainwashed. Your contempt is noted. Every one comes to a point in their life where they can hear His (the Holy Spirit) call. A humbled (or broken) heart is required to hear His call, for it is in your heart where you will hear His call. God will prepare the heart of anyone He intends to save. He will bring you to a point of brokenness where you will call out to Him, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Without that brokenness, your pride will block you from hearing His call.
Have you ever come to a point where you was broken, and called out to Him, or tried to seek Him? How would you know if you have had that opportunity. Ever experienced the death of someone close to you? Ever been disappointed by your own inability to do something about something that seems unfair? Ever been disappointed in your inability to control your own circumstances? These are common ways that will humble us to the point where we will seek Him or call out to Him. Everybody experiences this at some point in their life, and this is the opportunity that He is providing for you to hear His call or to find Him. But many have already made up their mind, and in their pride will not to seek Him when the call is made. It is almost always because of disillusionment in the ways of the world, or our circumstances, that leads us to hear His call.
As you begin to seek Him and He begins to point you to Christ (the work of the Holy Spirit is to point people to Jesus Christ before and after salvation), there is a kind of brainwashing that does go on. It happens as we seek Him, and He reveals the truth to us. When we recognize truth, it tends to cleanse our mind as we start to believe it. Thus, a brainwashing, washing out all the falsehoods and lies of the world, being replaced by the truth of His word. This brainwashing is not as bad as you seem to make it out to be, now is it.
< Message edited by bravjim -- 11/16/2008 9:09:24 PM >
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/16/2008 9:04:58 PM
|
|
|
bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
My first question is "Why do you believe the Bible is True?"
I believe the Bible to be true because no one has proven otherwise.
Do you question the existence of all historical documents, or just the Bible?
Why do you think you were a Christian? It can't be because that is how you were raised. I was raised by in an atheistic home, but that didn't make me an atheist.
That first point is a very interesting point. No one has ever proven any part of the bible to be false. No one at no time. Having been challenged by me on numerous occasions throughout this thread, 11 Arrows has provided no evidence that contradicts scripture or it's validity at any point. Why do you suppose that is? Because there is no evidence that disproves it, because it is impossible to disprove the truth.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/17/2008 10:30:33 AM
|
|
|
JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
And yes, I can historically point out that there is no historical evidence the exodus ever happened. Most scholars believe that if you had that number of people roaming around the desert for 40 years, we would have found some evidence of it. But non has ever been found, not a scrap. Leading most scholars to doubt the Exodus ever happened. Now if you want to believe it happened without any evidence what so ever, that's your right.
Who are these "most scholars," exactly? Has the exact route of the Exodus ever been found? No. Did the Hebrews set up anything permanent at all in the desert? No. Seems like pretty weak reasoning to me.
FYI, Ancient Egyptian chariots have been found at the bottom of the Red Sea. I've seen the photos. There's some evidence for you. Is it conclusive proof? No. But it's evidence, for sure.
You will probably draw a different conclusion from this than me, and that's your prerogative. But don't deride everyone here for believing without evidence. Just because you draw a different conclusion from the same evidence doesn't mean the evidence isn't there.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/17/2008 12:07:25 PM
|
|
|
SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 910
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kevfisher
I challenge you to pray this simple prayer:
"Lord God, If you are real I ask you to reveal the truth of the bible to me. I am struggling to understand the truth of the bible and have been shown alot of different information that has made me question whether the bible is really the 'word of God'. IF it is real I ask that you confirm it for me so that i may know you."
I believe that God will answer that prayer for you. We humans do not have all of the answers that people are seaching for but God, and only God does.
I hope you give it a shot! If God isnt real it wont hurt at all, but if God is real you may get the answer you are looking for (if you are really searching for the answer)!
Im praying for you!
Ok, I'm being completely sincere and honest here. I said this prayer twice. And I said it VERY open minded. I know you people will say "you must not have" but I really did. And nothing happened. I really want this ghost to speak to me. I mean that with all my heart. If their is a talking ghost who can tell me whats true and what not, I want to hear him more then anything on earth.
It just seems like, according you you guys, if the talking ghost doesn't choose you to talk to, then your unlucky. Am I expected to believe in the ghost before he will talk to me? If so how am I suppose to believe a ghost is real before I have any proof he is real? It just doesn't make any sense.
edited by moderator TOS 5
Ok, 11arrows, this post is seriously offensive.
AS lightbeamrider said a few posts ago
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
The problem is not with the evidence and never has been.
The problem is not with the evidence or lack their of, the problem is within you.
To keep referring to a talking ghost is offensive, condescending and childish on your part.
The Holy Spirit is not a talking ghost. The Holy Spirit is not Casper. While yes, The Holy Spirit is referred to as The Holy Ghost, The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. So please refer to Him with a little reverence.
It seems to me, that you are not looking for evidence to prove the bible is true, but you are trying to dissuade some on these forums of their beliefs.
How do I know 11arrows is a real person? How do I know 11arrows is not really Satan pounding away on a keyboard somewhere, trying to lead God's people astray?
If you want to use that logic on verifying whether or not the bible is true, or if Jesus was real, then I will have to use it also. I need proof that you are sincerely looking for truth on these forums and not just a way to spread your intellectual theories. Because obviously you know much more than all of us stupid yokels who believe the bible is true.
I apologize for my offensive tone.
I would hope to never lead a sincere seeker away from the Lord by my offensive banter. But I don't sense that about you. Please prove me wrong.
I may not hold any Doctorates, PHD's, Masters degrees, or any degree other than my High School diploma, but I ain't no fool. Sarcasm intended. I actually hold an above average 154 IQ, and I am a very logical thinker. The only logical answer to why and how we got here, and who put us here, what we are to do, and where we go when this life ends, and may I repeat, the only logical answer to these questions lies in the words of the Bible. God's word.
Again, I apologize if I offend you, or any1 else who may read this post, but I am a little put off by your lack of reverence for what we on this forum hold to be true. I am a little offended by your lack of reverence for Almighty God.
If your search is pure, I pray that God will open your eyes and ears to Him, and His truth.
Good searching.
< Message edited by SavedByGraceMD -- 11/17/2008 12:51:21 PM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/17/2008 12:09:53 PM
|
|
|
bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
|
There was also ancient hieroglyphics found somewhere in either Greece or Italy (can't remember the exact location) that depicted what appeared to be the parting of waters allowing a group of slaves to leave Egypt. There was not any certainty as to who made the hieroglyphics, but it was dated back to between 2000 & 1500 bc. I heard about this from a history channel documentary that explored the veracity of the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt. It went through and explained exactly how each of those judgements could have transpired naturally, and in exactly the order that it is laid out in the book of Exodus. This may lead you to say that if it was a natural phenomonon, then how could it be the work of God. How would Moses know when to go to Egypt when he was instructed, how could he make those natural phenomonon happen on command without divine revelation?
< Message edited by bravjim -- 11/17/2008 12:24:35 PM >
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/17/2008 12:32:28 PM
|
|
|
bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kevfisher
I challenge you to pray this simple prayer:
"Lord God, If you are real I ask you to reveal the truth of the bible to me. I am struggling to understand the truth of the bible and have been shown alot of different information that has made me question whether the bible is really the 'word of God'. IF it is real I ask that you confirm it for me so that i may know you."
I believe that God will answer that prayer for you. We humans do not have all of the answers that people are seaching for but God, and only God does.
I hope you give it a shot! If God isnt real it wont hurt at all, but if God is real you may get the answer you are looking for (if you are really searching for the answer)!
Im praying for you!
Ok, I'm being completely sincere and honest here. I said this prayer twice. And I said it VERY open minded. I know you people will say "you must not have" but I really did. And nothing happened. I really want this ghost to speak to me. I mean that with all my heart. If their is a talking ghost who can tell me whats true and what not, I want to hear him more then anything on earth.
It just seems like, according you you guys, if the talking ghost doesn't choose you to talk to, then your unlucky. Am I expected to believe in the ghost before he will talk to me? If so how am I suppose to believe a ghost is real before I have any proof he is real? It just doesn't make any sense.
edited by moderator TOS 5
Ok, 11arrows, this post is seriously offensive.
AS lightbeamrider said a few posts ago
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
The problem is not with the evidence and never has been.
The problem is not with the evidence or lack their of, the problem is within you.
To keep referring to a talking ghost is offensive, condescending and childish on your part.
The Holy Spirit is not a talking ghost. The Holy Spirit is not Casper. While yes, The Holy Spirit is referred to as The Holy Ghost, The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. So please refer to Him with a little reverence.
It seems to me, that you are not looking for evidence to prove the bible is true, but you are trying to dissuade some on these forums of their beliefs.
How do I know 11aarrows is a real person? How do I know 11arrows is not really Satan pounding away on a keyboard somewhere, trying to lead God's people astray?
If you want to use that logic on verifying whether or not the bible is true, or if Jesus was real, then I will have to use it also. I need proof that you are sincerely looking for truth on these forums and not just a way to spread your intellectual theories. Because obviously you know much more than all of us stupid yokels who believe the bible is true.
I apologize for my offensive tone.
I would hope to never lead a sincere seeker away from the Lord by my offensive banter. But I don't sense that about you. Please prove me wrong.
I may not hold any Doctorates, PHD's, Masters degrees, or any degree other than my High School diploma, but I ain't no fool. Sarcasm intended. I actually hold an above average 154 IQ, and I am a very logical thinker. The only logical answer to why and how we got here, and who put us here, what we are to do, and where we go when this life ends, and may I repeat, the only logical answer to these questions lies in the words of the Bible. God's word.
Again, I apologize if I offend you, or any1 else who may read this post, but I am a little put off by your lack of reverence for what we on this forum hold to be true. I am a little offended by your lack of reverence for Almighty God.
If your search is pure, I pray that God will open your eyes and ears to Him, and His truth.
Good searching.
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
