quote:

RE: Provocatively dressed womenORIGINAL: benelchi
In this thread in M & E the women have almost been in complete agreement that dressing provocatively in itself does not in any way increase a woman's risk to be raped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irreparable

I read the first 3, 4 pages of responses and jumped to the end where things took a odd turn, but I have a couple comments.

A lot of different aspects of rape and blaming situations have been mentioned but I want to address the actual title of the post: Did she ASK for it? The fact that the question is slanted from this perspective is what bothers me. Think back to the bullys in elementary school when ask why one kid picks on another, the guilty trys to justify his lashing out with "well he asked for it". So somehow that makes it ok. Blaming the other person for triggering your bad behavior doesnt make it right.

quote:

The addendum to the post aiming for the christian responsibility of proper appearance is another issue. We are all responsible for our own choices and knowing what message clothing and behavior can send. This is a highly subjective area that no post without pictures is going to be agreed upon. What is modest to some is not to others.

In my experience no person no matter how dressed up to stark naked 'asks' to be raped. This attitude blames the victim. Is there often bad judgment in clothing choices? Sure. That doesn't mean the person is asking to be hurt. The law is finally catching up to experience and even is someone is unconscious drunk if they cant give verbal consent it is rape.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:



I agree with you totally. Predators are predators, and they'll come up with any excuse to commit their crimes. I really doubt that clothing had much to do with any rape cases.

Why then is rape so prevalent among sex workers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: stonek

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:



I agree with you totally. Predators are predators, and they'll come up with any excuse to commit their crimes. I really doubt that clothing had much to do with any rape cases.

Why then is rape so prevalent among sex workers?

Because some think they can take it from them since they already do it for a living.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

1.3 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped each minute. That translates to 78 per hour, 1,871 per day, or 683,000 per year.
D.G. Kilpatrick, C.N. Edmunds, & A. Seymour. 1992. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington VA: National Victim Center.


Rape and sexual assault prevalence is difficult to determine because the crime is significantly underreported. The primary annual government indicators available are the FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR), which only includes rapes reported to law enforcement, and the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) which involves a survey of U.S. households and tallies offenses reported by victims age 12 and older. Both estimates are thought by many experts to be low. (1) Results of the NCVS released in December 1998 estimated 311,000 rapes and sexual assaults against victims over the age of 12 in the United States in 1997. (2) Results of the UCR indicated approximately 96,000 reported forcible rapes in 1997. (3)
American Medical Association. 1997. Facts About Sexual Assault. Chicago, Illinois: American Medical Association.
Michael Rand. 1998. Criminal Victimization 1997: Changes 1996-97 With Trends 1993-97. Washington, D.C.: Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey, Office of Justice Programs, US Department of Justice.
Federal Bureau of Investigation. 1997. Uniform Crime Reports for the United States, 1997. Washington, D.C.: Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice.

Rape is called the most underreported violent crime in America.

Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police. In a survey of victims who did not report rape or attempted rape to the police, the following was found as to why no report was made: 43% thought nothing could be done, 27% felt it was a private matter, 12% were afraid of police response, and 12% felt it was not important enough.
Kilpatrick et al., 1992.

In the United States, a rape is reported every five minutes.
FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1997.

60% of the women who reported being raped were under 18 years old
29% were less than 11 years old
32% were between 11 and 17
22% were between 18 and 24
7% were between 25 and 29
6% were older than 29
3% age was not available
Rape in America: A Report to the Nation, National Victim Center, 1992.

Perpetrators
Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned.
U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee: Conviction and Imprisonment Statistics, 1993.


I've been reading this thread for weeks now - mostly disgusted at the responses seen here. Do you want to know why rape is the most under reported crime in the nation? Because of attitudes like I've seen here.

Many of you feel that the victim bears some responsibility for her attack, even though you're careful to put in the appropriate "I don't condone rape" disclaimers. Still, the tone and jist of the remainder of the post clearly indicates the opposite.

When a woman is raped, the first thing people do is say: Where was she? What was she doing? How was she dressed?.... searching (it seems) for a way to blame the woman for what happened.

Are any of you aware that over 75% of rapes are committed by a person the victim knows? Someone she would have no reason to distrust?

I was raped when I was 19. I never told anyone until I told my husband. Do you know why I never reported it? Two reasons - first, the man in question and I had dated prior to the incident (and had broken up because I would NOT have sex with him before marriage)... and second, he was a COP. I knew there wasn't a snowball's chance I would get justice. To this day, the sight of a police officer's uniform makes me nauseated (and I'm 43 now).

For the record (cause I know you're curious).... I was not a drinker, I did not party, I was not promiscuous, nor was I a "serial" dater. I was a part time student and worked for a local bank. I lived at home with my parents. My rape occurred in my parent's den, while they were on vacation. He called and asked if he could drop by to give me back some of the things I had given him while we dated. It never occurred to me to be afraid of him - he had never tried to "force" me, even when we dated... only made it clear he couldn't be in a relationship with someone who wouldn't be physical with him. Plus he was a sheriff.... someone who is supposed to uphold the law...

The woman is the one violated - then she is looked down on, her every move scrutinized, her past laid out for public consumption, and she is forced to relive that moment over and over again for years.

Only 6% of rapists are ever even brought to trial - and only 2% every do jail time. Then, just to rub salt in the wound, the victim is looked down on by society. As if she's "damaged" or "spoiled".....

It makes me so angry I could scream.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

1.3 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped each minute. That translates to 78 per hour, 1,871 per day, or 683,000 per year.
D.G. Kilpatrick, C.N. Edmunds, & A. Seymour. 1992. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington VA: National Victim Center.


[
It makes me so angry I could scream.

Cheshire, I am sorry for your experience. It truly is a shame that sexual crimes are so rampant and infrequently reported or prosecuted.

Your post, however, provides a clear example of how each of us address this issue from our own personal experience. Your anger is justified. Yet, when it is applied to those who have a different perspective it inhibits thoughtful discussion that addresses the topic and helps to educate and resolve issues.

quote:

Since survivors of rape struggle with guilt and shame over what happened to them, even the suggestion of blame is yet another wound in a very wounded soul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

CheshireMuse,


I truly am sorry that you had to experience the pain of rape; however, I think your experience has blinded you to what people in this thread are really saying. First, I want to address the idea that you put forth that people "looked down on women" because they have been raped; that is certainly not my view! That question came up in another thread a while back and this was my response. Second, the issue is NOT about looking for a reason to blame a woman for being raped, but about understanding the behaviors that may put women in greater risk BEFORE she is raped and encouraging women to avoid those behaviors so that their chances of being rape are reduced.

So, going by what I've read on this thread, a woman should never attend a party where there is alcohol, nor should she ever have a drink anywhere but in her own home. She should never wear a skirt that is shorter than the knee, heels, stockings, or blouse that isn't high-necked.

The thing I think people are missing is that only 17% of reported rapes are perpetrated by an unknown assailant (see RAINN for 2006 US Dept of Justice stats). That means that 83% of all rapists KNOW their victim. How do you prepare for that?

We are all aware that rape happens when women have done nothing sinful or irresponsible and that there is nothing that a woman can do to guarantee her safety (as much as most of us wish it could be done) but the reality is that women can do things to reduce their risk of being raped. Some of those things have have no moral implications but are just a matter of common sense and some are associated risky and sinful behavior i.e. those who engage in a combination of drinking, drug use, promiscuous sex, immodest dress, etc.. are statistically at a higher risk of being raped. While there are many women who NEVER engage in these types of activities and do get raped and many who do engage in these activities and never get raped, the risk factor is higher for those who do. And when talking with women about protecting themselves from rape, these topics should NOT be off limits.

I never said they should be off limits. I simply observed that there is an undercurrent of disapproval and blame for victims who were assaulted while at a party or dressed in a manner that the poster regarded as immodest.

Additionally it should be noted that while rape is a significant problem that is very under reported, the statistics you have provided are old and rejected by most modern studies of rape. There have been widely recognized problems with how data was collected in earlier studies and most modern studies have made adjustments to account for these problems.

See RAINN for the 2006 US Dept of Justice stats on rape.

I also think it was a huge mistake for you to have not reported your rape because the rapist was a cop. It was a mistake to assume that his position would have prevented justice because, even though it could have happened, there is a good chance that it would not have resulted in the injustice you had anticipated. If I knew a woman in your circumstance I would have strongly encouraged her to report the rape and press charges against the rapist; I probably would have even reported it myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

1.3 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped each minute. That translates to 78 per hour, 1,871 per day, or 683,000 per year.
D.G. Kilpatrick, C.N. Edmunds, & A. Seymour. 1992. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington VA: National Victim Center.


[
It makes me so angry I could scream.

Cheshire, I am sorry for your experience. It truly is a shame that sexual crimes are so rampant and infrequently reported or prosecuted.

Your post, however, provides a clear example of how each of us address this issue from our own personal experience. Your anger is justified. Yet, when it is applied to those who have a different perspective it inhibits thoughtful discussion that addresses the topic and helps to educate and resolve issues.

My intent or anger has nothing to do with inhibiting discussion or educating women on ways to avoid rape. It is a survivor's perspective on what has been posted here. As I said before, even though the disclaimers are put on every post ("I don't condone rape"), many posters then go on to say that because she was dressed "immodestly" or was at a party or was having drinks, then she shares responsibility for what happened to her. Which implies that she bears some of the burden of blame in what happened to her.

Perhaps you didn't mean it to come off that way, but considering that 1 in 4 women (see RAINN for the 2006 stats from the US Dept of Justice) has been or will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, it's a safe bet that there are many survivors of such crimes reading these words.

Since survivors of rape struggle with guilt and shame over what happened to them, even the suggestion of blame is yet another wound in a very wounded soul.

quote:



My intent or anger has nothing to do with inhibiting discussion or educating women on ways to avoid rape.

quote:


It is a survivor's perspective on what has been posted here. As I said before, even though the disclaimers are put on every post ("I don't condone rape"), many posters then go on to say that because she was dressed "immodestly" or was at a party or was having drinks, then she shares responsibility for what happened to her. Which implies that she bears some of the burden of blame in what happened to her.

Perhaps you didn't mean it to come off that way, but considering that 1 in 4 women (see RAINN for the 2006 stats from the US Dept of Justice) has been or will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, it's a safe bet that there are many survivors of such crimes reading these words.

Since survivors of rape struggle with guilt and shame over what happened to them, even the suggestion of blame is yet another wound in a very wounded soul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

1.3 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped each minute. That translates to 78 per hour, 1,871 per day, or 683,000 per year.
D.G. Kilpatrick, C.N. Edmunds, & A. Seymour. 1992. Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. Arlington VA: National Victim Center.


[
It makes me so angry I could scream.

Cheshire, I am sorry for your experience. It truly is a shame that sexual crimes are so rampant and infrequently reported or prosecuted.

Your post, however, provides a clear example of how each of us address this issue from our own personal experience. Your anger is justified. Yet, when it is applied to those who have a different perspective it inhibits thoughtful discussion that addresses the topic and helps to educate and resolve issues.

My intent or anger has nothing to do with inhibiting discussion or educating women on ways to avoid rape. It is a survivor's perspective on what has been posted here. As I said before, even though the disclaimers are put on every post ("I don't condone rape"), many posters then go on to say that because she was dressed "immodestly" or was at a party or was having drinks, then she shares responsibility for what happened to her. Which implies that she bears some of the burden of blame in what happened to her.

Perhaps you didn't mean it to come off that way, but considering that 1 in 4 women (see RAINN for the 2006 stats from the US Dept of Justice) has been or will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, it's a safe bet that there are many survivors of such crimes reading these words.

Since survivors of rape struggle with guilt and shame over what happened to them, even the suggestion of blame is yet another wound in a very wounded soul.

As I said, each of us come at this from our own experience. My experience stems from having lived a promiscuous lifestyle in my early adult years. I came to Christ and repented of that lifestyle. In more recent years, I supervised sex offenders on probation. I have interviewed countless victims and been actively involved in the treatment of men and women participating in treatment.

I apologize if my comment seemed to imply that you were not contributing to the discussion. If I have a concern it's that for many people the emotions that are stirred from conversations like this tend to open wounds. The pain that comes out as a result often stifles others from commenting for fear of emotional reactions.

I do understand your perspective that even hinting of blame opens wounds. As a PO, while writing pre-sentence reports to the court for making sentencing recommendations, the victim is never to be blamed. Yet, as a human being, I too can see in some instances where the victim played an active role in an offense. The person being sentenced is still criminally responsible for failing to do what's right and continuing to do what's wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

Since survivors of rape struggle with guilt and shame over what happened to them, even the suggestion of blame is yet another wound in a very wounded soul.

i agree with this.

in the end it doesn't matter what anyone is wearing or doing, they NEVER deserve to be assaulted. period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse
Then perhaps the victim isn't really the victim then.... perhaps they should be sentenced too. Because, logic seems to dictate that if a person contributes to a wrong done to them, they're actually an accessory to the crime, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse
Then perhaps the victim isn't really the victim then.... perhaps they should be sentenced too. Because, logic seems to dictate that if a person contributes to a wrong done to them, they're actually an accessory to the crime, right?

no way CheshireMuse! i spoken about GPS units with a lot of people the last 4 months and almost everyone tells me that one should never leave the unit (or the mount) in plain sight in the car to avoid temptation by a potential thief. not sure if this has been in the news lately or some chain email, but it's crazy how many people mention it. anyways if i'm in a hurry one day and forget to put it away. someone else made the choice to commit the crime, no way i should go to jail for being an accessory!

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse
Then perhaps the victim isn't really the victim then.... perhaps they should be sentenced too. Because, logic seems to dictate that if a person contributes to a wrong done to them, they're actually an accessory to the crime, right?

no way CheshireMuse! i spoken about GPS units with a lot of people the last 4 months and almost everyone tells me that one should never leave the unit (or the mount) in plain sight in the car to avoid temptation by a potential thief. not sure if this has been in the news lately or some chain email, but it's crazy how many people mention it. anyways if i'm in a hurry one day and forget to put it away. someone else made the choice to commit the crime, no way i should go to jail for being an accessory!

Thats exactly my point. :-)