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[Poll]
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Did She ASK for It?
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| Yes, but the assailant is entirely responsible for his actions. |
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| Yes, she should know better & the case should be dropped. |
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| No, a woman should be able to dress as she pleases, regardless! |
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| No, but she should know that her behavior is irresponsible |
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Total Votes : 21
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(last vote on : 11/21/2008 1:33:55 PM)
(Poll ended: 11/21/2008 2:00:00 AM)
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 6:24:27 PM
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Kerrlaw
Posts: 9056
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
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One of my favorite books is about a female duck.
It's called Fup, by Jim Dodge.
I wonder if DuckTalk would mind if I called her Fup?
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Coffee sinners lovers click here.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 6:42:42 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
I wonder if DuckTalk would mind if I called her Fup?
Not at all, just make sure you spell it right.
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Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 7:43:59 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9473
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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I still have a little problem with this cause and effect thing that has been being discussed. Benelchi and a few others have expressed that actions will sometime increase risk of assault. I don't have any disagreement with that. But I still have a problem with the stance some of you have taken that this action also causes a shared blame. I do not believe that is what Benelchi and the others was saying but it was implied by some. Let me see if I can get this where I can wrap my senile old brain arount it.
Lets say I am walking down the street at night. I go by a alley and suddenly I hear a scream. A woman is begging for help. I rush into the alley and find a man brutally assaulting a woman. With all the energy I can muster I charge the attacker. I manage to get the woman out of harms way and subdue her attacker. However, in the process I am severly cut up.
Now that is the scenario.
1. Did my action increase my risk of being hurt.
You better believe it. Actually in this case I can agree my actions was the major factor in my getting hurt. Had I not rushed in and faced her attacker I would not have been cut.
2. Since I have admitted my actions greatly increased the risk of being hurt, since I willfully and intentionally disregarded my safety am I partly to blame for the attacker cutting me?
I will not answer the last question. I want to see what some of you say first.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 8:05:33 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3636
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I still have a little problem with this cause and effect thing that has been being discussed. Benelchi and a few others have expressed that actions will sometime increase risk of assault. I don't have any disagreement with that. But I still have a problem with the stance some of you have taken that this action also causes a shared blame. I do not believe that is what Benelchi and the others was saying but it was implied by some. Let me see if I can get this where I can wrap my senile old brain arount it.
Lets say I am walking down the street at night. I go by a alley and suddenly I hear a scream. A woman is begging for help. I rush into the alley and find a man brutally assaulting a woman. With all the energy I can muster I charge the attacker. I manage to get the woman out of harms way and subdue her attacker. However, in the process I am severly cut up.
Now that is the scenario.
1. Did my action increase my risk of being hurt.
You better believe it. Actually in this case I can agree my actions was the major factor in my getting hurt. Had I not rushed in and faced her attacker I would not have been cut.
2. Since I have admitted my actions greatly increased the risk of being hurt, since I willfully and intentionally disregarded my safety am I partly to blame for the attacker cutting me?
I will not answer the last question. I want to see what some of you say first.
Yes, you are to blame (i.e. responsible) for the increased risk you took, but you are not guilty of sin, nor are you to blame (responsible) for the injury you received. In this example, if you had not rushed in, you would have have protected yourself at the expense of another and you would have been guilty of sin for ignoring the screams of the woman in desperate need of help. Overall your inaction would have been irresponsible and reprehensible.
As I was writing this post I realized that "blame" may be a loaded word, and maybe the word "responsible" would make more sense. We are responsible for our actions, but not for the actions of others. And sometimes the responsible action is to take a risk (as in your example), and the irresponsible action is to avoid the risk.
My concern with what I was hearing was because it sounded like it was being said that a woman was no longer responsible for her bad behavior because she was attacked during the crime of rape. She should never take any responsibility for the crime of rape, she shares none of that ever, but she is still responsible for her own actions as she stands before God whether she has avoided a disastrous outcome or come face to face with one.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 8:21:40 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9473
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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I think we are in agreement. Altough the sin or no sin was not what I was looking for. I do agree my actions increased the risk of being hurt and that I and I alone are responsible form my actions. I have said that in different ways several times as have you.
We all take risk daily. Sometimes we don't even realize we are taking risk. If a family or four get in their car and head out to church Sunday and they are hit by a drunk driver they increased their risk by being on the road. Now I agree they are not responsible for the actions of the drunk driver. But if they had stayed at home it would not have happened. So they did increase their risk.
Now to something someelse said..... If the mother and two kids were killed and only the husband survived that wreck who among us is going to tell him his wife and kids would still be alive if he had stayed off the road.
Benelchi that last part is not directed at you.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 9:38:44 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
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Excellent post, Sam.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/20/2008 11:30:06 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3636
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
First Benelchi to be honest it took me some time and serious reading to reconcile with your posts. I think the problem stems from the intriduction of the sin and Glorifying God comments into the conversation. I noticed even when you responded to my latest post the sin or no sin thing slipped in there also. It did not bother me because none of that post had any personal meaning to me. However, we have to understand many of the ladies posting in this thread have sufered through sexual assaults of one kind or another. To them it is very personal. When they read comments about the woman's sinful acts and acts not gloryfying God what they, and I must admit I did at first, see is because of the woman's sinful acts she got what she deserved or that because of her sinful acts God allowed those things to happen. Now let me say you did not say that and I don't for one minute believe you meant that. But it could have been perceived that way.
I will have to take your word for how it could have been perceived that way because I just don't understand why; I really did try hard to separate these two issues. On crosswalk I am used to those who look for the worst in the things I post, but there are people for whom I just don't expect that; for me the painful part was more about who was misinterpreting what I said than the fact that it was misinterpreted.
quote:
Now I don't think there is a woman on here that does not believe most of the actions mentioned in this thread like drunkenness, lewd behavior etc. is a sin. I also don't think or believe any of them will argue each of us are not responsible for our own behavior. I don't believe any of them will argue against the fact we can do things to increase our risk. Where I think the problem comes in is when we start using the words UnGodly, sinful, etc. I believe in conversations like this it might be wise to leave that part of the discussion for other threads.
I do agree that most (if not all) of the women on this thread have voiced that they do believe that lewd behavior or drunkenness is sin, but unless I am misunderstanding something I get the strong impression that, for some of the women, provocative dress has been excluded from that list (or if included seen as no big deal). I think much of what you heard in my language was a reaction to what I was hearing on this point. What I was hearing really troubled me.
Additionally I will admit that this last week has been tough in real life on the spiritual front was well. Some people I know well have excused sin (in an area unrelated to this topic) and it has caused a significant amount of pain to a lot of people I know, myself included. I have spent a lot of hours this week dealing with this issue, so I was probably a little more sensitive to hearing what sounded like "it's no big deal" in regard to sin here on this thread because I have been dealing with the consequences of treating sin as if it were "no big deal" in real life.
quote:
I hate all the hurt feelings and really think they could have been avoided. I also believe they can be healed and the views expressed here for the most part can be reconciled. What say ye.
I say that I agree.
Thanks for your post and your encouragement.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 12:37:26 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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Wow! This thread moves fast. I was away from the puter fro a few hours and came back to see where this thread was at. It seems we're all hugging and singing hakuna matada. Can I join in the hug? 
This is one of those threads in which we need to understand what's going on before expressing our opinion. It's a topic that brings about strong emotional expression based on experience whether that experience is positive or negative. It's a topic that we can only relate to from personal experience. Some have had horrendous experiences in this realm, others have had no difficulty.
I see myself as one who has had a lot of experience in the field of human sexuality. I lived the wrong lifestyle for the early years of my adult life. After coming to Christ, He placed me in a postion to counsel those trapped in sexual sin. This forced me to face my own sexual sin. It allowed me to see things from the other side as well.
The only HOPE I see is that we, the church, begin to communicate this message to our kids more effectively than our parents communicated to us.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 10:04:20 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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I was thinking the same thing. I forgot, however, to give you the credit Kerrlaw 
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 10:17:00 AM
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Deb70
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/21/2008
Status: offline
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Maybe this wasn't the best thread for a newbie to open. Strange that this may always be known as my "introduction to christianity.com."
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 10:37:13 AM
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JustJeannie
Posts: 5096
Joined: 6/14/2007
From: the state of confusion
Status: offline
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LOL, Stella!!!
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Jeannie
'Cause I'm cool like that....
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 10:46:08 AM
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Deb70
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/21/2008
Status: offline
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Nevermind
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 11:16:53 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
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Welcome to the threads, Deb!
Truly.
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RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/21/2008 11:20:38 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 9473
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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Welcome to the forums Deb. M&E is not exactly the place for one to get their feet wet. To much chance of drowning. PFY or Humor and Games would be the best place to start. Although please know here in M&E our bark is much worse than our bite.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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