RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to take communion.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 3:01:03 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Voting for Obama does not mean that you've endorsed murder. You will still go to prison if you kill someone with malice aforethought. The very rhetoric of that sentence is designed to incite fear. It also proves my point quite nicely.
Abortion is murder with malice aforethought and as well, murder for hire...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 9:02:19 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5151
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Voting for Obama does not mean that you've endorsed murder. You will still go to prison if you kill someone with malice aforethought. The very rhetoric of that sentence is designed to incite fear. It also proves my point quite nicely.
Abortion is murder with malice aforethought and as well, murder for hire...
Exactly. Abortion is on the exact same level morally as women who deliver a child and leave it in a plastic bag in a dumpster to die. They are both murder. They are both wrong in the eyes of God, and SovereignisHe had an excellent point--we need to fear God in this country. To overlook the fact that a politician supports murder and to take steps to see him elected in an being an accessory to the crime.
_____________________________
Bonky
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 10:28:12 AM
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ken1906_4
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Well the whole church not necessarily the members because many just don’t know, but those in leadership and those who have held leadership positions over the centuries should be denied communion. The papacy(the Catholic Church) has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed.
Mr. Pot: Hello Mr. Kettle, you’re black.
Yes abortion is wrong on so many levels, but I think it's inappropriate to make such a statement especially when your own house is dirty.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 11:14:58 AM
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Acts29
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Back to the OP
Seriously will they (people who voted for Obama) ever be allowed to receive communion again or have any chance of forgiveness? Will they be excommunicated?
They will not be excommunicated, if you read the OP it specifcally says that the priest only asks that they not partake until they have pursued reconciliation. He is asking that they seek forgiveness for what is in the Catholic church a sin prior to participating in the Lord's supper.
If that is the situation then who hasn't sinned before they take communion. At what point is someone really clean enough to take communion. Also, by needing to be reconciled back to ???? (what) the church?
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 1:13:55 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Voting for Obama does not mean that you've endorsed murder. You will still go to prison if you kill someone with malice aforethought. The very rhetoric of that sentence is designed to incite fear. It also proves my point quite nicely.
Abortion is murder with malice aforethought and as well, murder for hire...
Exactly. Abortion is on the exact same level morally as women who deliver a child and leave it in a plastic bag in a dumpster to die. They are both murder. They are both wrong in the eyes of God, and SovereignisHe had an excellent point--we need to fear God in this country. To overlook the fact that a politician supports murder and to take steps to see him elected in an being an accessory to the crime.
Abortion does not rise to the level of murder with the component of malice. Malice comes from hate and it's very hard to hate someone you don't even know. A person is more likely to feel ambivalent. That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
If merely supporting a candidate makes you an accessory to their crime, then how many politicians have you supported in their adultery or theft or cheating or lying or creating false weights? Aren't all these sins? Should you be denied communion?
With your logic, if you voted for Bush/Cheney, your name also needs to be on the indictment that was brought against Cheney a couple weeks ago. You were an accessory to his crime because you took steps to see him elected.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 3:05:43 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5151
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quote:
Yes abortion is wrong on so many levels, but I think it's inappropriate to make such a statement especially when your own house is dirty.
So are you saying that only sinless people can say that's something is a sin? Well, since God said that murder is wrong, I agree with Him, no matter what other people say.
quote:
If that is the situation then who hasn't sinned before they take communion. At what point is someone really clean enough to take communion. Also, by needing to be reconciled back to ???? (what) the church?
When you repent, you can be reconciled to God.
quote:
Abortion does not rise to the level of murder with the component of malice. Malice comes from hate and it's very hard to hate someone you don't even know. A person is more likely to feel ambivalent. That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
Is it murder if a mother dumps her newborn into the dumpster because she didn't want a baby? Maybe she didn't feel malice, she just didn't want him. She might feel ambivalent. If that is murder, then so is abortion.
quote:
If merely supporting a candidate makes you an accessory to their crime, then how many politicians have you supported in their adultery or theft or cheating or lying or creating false weights? Aren't all these sins? Should you be denied communion?
I am not talking about people's personal sins. As far as I know, Obama hasn't had an abortion. I'm talking about his policies--the laws he would implement, the measures he would take to make sure people have more access to abortions. The protections for the unborn in place he will strip away. Those laws will make an entire nation guilty of the blood of the unborn. All of us are sinners, but those who govern apart from the will of God will be judged for that, and we shouldn't take their sides or enable them to make evil laws.
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Bonky
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 3:16:24 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
If merely supporting a candidate makes you an accessory to their crime, then how many politicians have you supported in their adultery or theft or cheating or lying or creating false weights? Aren't all these sins? Should you be denied communion?
I would think if a candidate runs on a platform that plainly advocates a government sanction of adultery, theft, lying or cheating, then it it would certainly be morally wrong for a Christian to vote for such a person, and doing so would presumably endanger, under certain doctrines, one's welcome at the communion table.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 3:30:01 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5151
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quote:
I would think if a candidate runs on a platform that plainly advocates a government sanction of adultery, theft, lying or cheating, then it it would certainly be morally wrong for a Christian to vote for such a person, and doing so would presumably endanger, under certain doctrines, one's welcome at the communion table.
Great point, Jack, and I agree.
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Bonky
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 5:03:07 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I would think denying communion would be the greater crime since you're messing with one's eternal life while the other only messes with a physical life that's going to pass away anyway. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Sounds pretty good to me.
Don't use scripture to "justify" murder. That's a clear twist of God's word. It's not funny, cute or wise. It sounds as if you are mocking God.
I think most of us don't want to participate in a discussion with someone who mocks God. We don't want to go there with you.
First of all, I'm not mocking God. I am, however, wondering why we, as Christians, seem to fear death so much since Jesus already proved that it is no match for Him. At the center of this whole debate is two things God told us not to worry about.
1)Death
2) Fear
Jesus conquered the first and the spirit of the second did not come from God. And yet, these two things seem to have such a large presence in our minds. Why is that?
We're talking about the murder of innocent babies. Not you or me dying.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 5:28:11 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
The papacy(the Catholic Church) has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed.
What on God's green Earth are you talking about?! Did the aliens that ride on the Hale-Bopp comet teach you this?
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 7:34:08 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
I would think if a candidate runs on a platform that plainly advocates a government sanction of adultery, theft, lying or cheating, then it it would certainly be morally wrong for a Christian to vote for such a person, and doing so would presumably endanger, under certain doctrines, one's welcome at the communion table.
Great point, Jack, and I agree.
Tonight on the news Obama visits a parochial school in Chicago. There were cheering and clapping for Obama when he walked into the Gymn with his wife and children.
ummmm Now what will the church do with these people for clapping and cheering for Obama?
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 8:04:40 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Abortion does not rise to the level of murder with the component of malice. Malice comes from hate and it's very hard to hate someone you don't even know. A person is more likely to feel ambivalent. That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
Illogical semantics and equivocating shenanigans.  The "feelings" of a person has nothing to do with whether the act of murder is wrong or not. It would take about 5 minutes to put together a list of serial murderers who felt joy when they killed. Using your reasoning they shouldn't face jail or the death penalty. Silly rabbit.
"Murder" is the intentional ending of a life outside of God-ordained parameters such as capital punishment, war, and defense of self, family, or home. It can be done in anger or ambivalence or joy, but it is still murder. In fact, the murder that occurs with abortion may be even more evil than murder done out of anger, because abortion is murder done out of convenience and selfishness.
As a caveat to my first paragraph, I should acknowledge that legally there are different penalties for murder depending on frame of mind at the time (heat of passion, premeditation, accidental, etc), but that doesn't mean that the classification of those crimes as murder ceases to exist.
Abortion is the murder of a pre-born human being.
Abortion should make any Christian do this:     
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 8:39:34 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7598
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
ummmm Now what will the church do with these people for clapping and cheering for Obama?
Well, I don't know what they would do now, but in past times the sisters would have rapped some knuckles with a stiff ruler.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/26/2008 8:56:09 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2502
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Voting for Obama does not mean that you've endorsed murder. You will still go to prison if you kill someone with malice aforethought. The very rhetoric of that sentence is designed to incite fear. It also proves my point quite nicely.
Abortion is murder with malice aforethought and as well, murder for hire...
Exactly. Abortion is on the exact same level morally as women who deliver a child and leave it in a plastic bag in a dumpster to die. They are both murder. They are both wrong in the eyes of God, and SovereignisHe had an excellent point--we need to fear God in this country. To overlook the fact that a politician supports murder and to take steps to see him elected in an being an accessory to the crime.
Abortion does not rise to the level of murder with the component of malice. Malice comes from hate and it's very hard to hate someone you don't even know. A person is more likely to feel ambivalent. That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
If merely supporting a candidate makes you an accessory to their crime, then how many politicians have you supported in their adultery or theft or cheating or lying or creating false weights? Aren't all these sins? Should you be denied communion?
With your logic, if you voted for Bush/Cheney, your name also needs to be on the indictment that was brought against Cheney a couple weeks ago. You were an accessory to his crime because you took steps to see him elected.
Greetings
quote:
That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
Actually in the scriptures is called the truth for it is designed to incite fear in those
...for example
Mt 5:26 - Show Context
I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny
There are 84 total results for a search of I tell you the truth in the NKJV
quote:
is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
Not according to this...
the fear you mention is called condemnation
BUT
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light
And the common rebuke is as you mentioned.... to incite fear in those it's used against
Therefore
men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light =(Truth)
and does not come to the light,(Truth)..... lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
quote:
You were an accessory to his crime because you took steps to see him elected.
Generally what makes one an accomplice to murder or an accomplice to Cheney’s indictment…. would be if Cheney advertised beforehand what he was going to do...
And therefore if one knows that ...and if one still went along with it that makes one an accomplice
…..this is how Jesus addressed that
12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?"
13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They.... are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, "both" will fall into a ditch."
And what that means by the blind leading the blind..... is that because Obama has already advertised beforehand the he will put the finishing touches on the abortion issue; and when we vote for that; we become an accomplice,
Therefore we no longer have an opposing view to it; and when we don’t have an opposing view; ...then according to the principal in v13 as the blind leads the blind and the law of God, then we have the same view 'and that means that= both will be uprooted.
RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to take communion.
Actually they should not be doing a thing... according to verse 14....Let them alone.
God has other plans for them
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/27/2008 12:08:45 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
Well the whole church not necessarily the members because many just don’t know, but those in leadership and those who have held leadership positions over the centuries should be denied communion. The papacy(the Catholic Church) has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed.
Mr. Pot: Hello Mr. Kettle, you’re black.
Yes abortion is wrong on so many levels, but I think it's inappropriate to make such a statement especially when your own house is dirty.
The failures of the RCC doesn't make what is wrong, right... Your logic would dictate them to allow what is wrong because they have acted wrongly... Nobody is without fault, yet right is right and wrong is wrong...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/27/2008 12:10:23 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Back to the OP
Seriously will they (people who voted for Obama) ever be allowed to receive communion again or have any chance of forgiveness? Will they be excommunicated?
They will not be excommunicated, if you read the OP it specifcally says that the priest only asks that they not partake until they have pursued reconciliation. He is asking that they seek forgiveness for what is in the Catholic church a sin prior to participating in the Lord's supper.
If that is the situation then who hasn't sinned before they take communion. At what point is someone really clean enough to take communion. Also, by needing to be reconciled back to ???? (what) the church?
It's about having a open sinful issue, not simply having sinned...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/27/2008 12:15:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Abortion does not rise to the level of murder with the component of malice. Malice comes from hate and it's very hard to hate someone you don't even know. A person is more likely to feel ambivalent. That's why substituting the word "murder" for the word "abortion" is very misleading and designed to incite fear in those it's used against.
Murder is the unjust taking of life... And there is no love shown to the unborn by those who seek to murder them, and given that hating a brother without cause is liken to murder according to Jesus Christ, taking the life of those in the womb like removing a wart certainly is founded in hate and not love...
The only misleading is done by those who wish to sanitize the mass murder of the unborn.... 3000+ a day...
quote:
If merely supporting a candidate makes you an accessory to their crime, then how many politicians have you supported in their adultery or theft or cheating or lying or creating false weights? Aren't all these sins? Should you be denied communion?
Obama supports abortion, the unjust taking of life in the womb, murder... That's an agenda... The above are the personal sins of politicians... Apples and oranges...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/28/2008 5:13:19 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5151
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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There is a huge difference between the politician that says, "I have sinned" and the politician that says, "Sin is okay."
_____________________________
Bonky
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