RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo terrorist on American soil?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:29:56 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
From what little I understand about it - most of the people in there are totally innocent. It is pitiful. Get them out of there and home where they belong. The few who are genuinely terrorists - bring them to America and put them into our system.
Then gain some deeper unserstanding. Don't let your emotions rule here. The folks in Gitmo are not American citizens, they are enemy combatants bent on destroying the United States and imposing Islam and Sharia law on the world. While they may not be members of a nations military, they are soldiers nonetheless. MOdern warfare has moved from a battle of geographical nations to a battle of ideologies. We cannot look at this war through the lens of previous wars.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:30:08 PM
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galadriel2
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Thanks, lightshineon, for your response....No offense on my part...I love you in the Lord, so to speak, and I don't mean that somehow the Lord's love is bypassing me so that I really hate you and He loves you instead - Did you ever run across someone who uses that expression in that context?
I still stick by what I said, though. There are a lot of people who want to destroy America - many of them being Americans, needless to say. We don't send them off to Club Gitmo or keep them out of our legal system. Wanting to destroy America isn't a basis for denying a person legal rights. Is the Word authoritative in every area of life and living and thought or no? I know you think it is. I can tell by your posts. What does the Word say then? How does it apply to this situation? Forget President-elect Obama's motives for a moment. We can't know them for sure anyway. 'Therefore, judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels (motives) of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.' (1 Cor.) Whether I am naive or not - whatever, the issue is what does the Word say and how does it apply.
As far as your great quote about pearls and pigs - yeah - I know what you're talking about.
God bless you abundantly in Christ  ,
Galadriel
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:37:46 PM
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galadriel2
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Thanks, zamdad, for your response. I was putting up a response to lightshineon when you posted yours. I appreciate the feedback, but, I with respect and love disagree with your assessment of the terrorists that they are soldiers/army. Just because they describe themselves as such doesn't make them such. A soldier is someone who is hired by a government to perform the functions of a soldier. A soldier isn't a soldier in the spiritual sense - which the violent jihadists view themselves as - in part because Islam doesn't separate the community of believers from government. They are the same - church and state, so to speak. They don't see the kingdom of God as a spiritual kingdom. Our own Scripture teaches us that we are soldiers in a raging war with the devil and his hosts (Eph. ch. 6), but I never for a minute would view myself as anything but a civilian, even so. It is the same with these terrorists. They are civilians. The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom and therefore spiritual means must be used (not physical weapons) to promote and expand it. It isn't a political and spiritual kingdom, as Islam sees it. This is why violent jihadists get so confused about using violence to promote the kingdom of God. They don't understand what Christ means when He said to Pilate that 'My kingdom is not of this world', therefore, my disciples don't fight.
God bless abundantly in Christ,
Galadriel
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:45:30 PM
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zamdad
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Galadriel, I know you'll disgree with my assesment. You and I come at this from different perspectives. I have been a soldier in the US Army. When people who call themselves soldiers fire their weapons at me and my soldiers, whether they represent a country or an ideology, they are soldiers. They are not ordinary criminals to be treated by the American criminal justice system. Yes, they are soldiers in the spiritual sense too. They are seeking to impose their beliefs on the rest of the world. From their perspective, we are all infidels. We are to convert or die. Only, they bring their spiritual warfare into the flesh.
While I think I understand what you are getting at, I also feel like you are letting your emotions rule over reason.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:56:07 PM
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galadriel2
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Thanks again, zamdad, for your response, but for what its worth, I think that I am actually trying to be objective and let the word of God define people. Just because they shoot at you doesn't make them soldiers, it seems to me our 'true soldier' zamdad. Them shooting at you makes you feel like they are soldiers, but that doesn't make them soldiers because the Bible isn't defining them as such, it seems to me.
God bless you abundantly in Christ,
Galadriel
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 3:15:09 PM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: galadriel2
A soldier is someone who is hired by a government to perform the functions of a soldier.
Can you please elaborate by showing every one here where in the Bible it states that.
You do rely on defining things by the Bible correct?
In the meantime , while you are looking for that, can we all go by the American Herritage Dictionary?
sol·dier (sôl'jər) Pronunciation Key
n.
One who serves in an army.
An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.
An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 3:38:08 PM
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lightshineon
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gadreial2 thanks for you kindness. I would apply the word to this situation, Be sober be vigilant, for your advesary, the devil, walks to and fro seeking whom he may devour. In context also, I would apply this situation to Jesus and his temptaion in the desert. You know how the devil twisted the word of Psalms 91. "He shall give angles charge over thee to keep thee, in all the ways. Jesus Replied: "It is also written thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God." We can love our enemy pray them, and do good to them by praying for them. But we do have a right to protect ourselves, so letting satan twist scripture, to let dangerous combatants go is not Godly IMHO.
My husband, is also responsible for putting two in gitmo, on 9-12, on an amtrack in Ft. worth Texas that was very God ordained, the men captured had box cutters, 20,000 in cash, and had been disboarded in NJ where the rest had taken off. They were in Gitmo for a year, and released back to India. Long story with many strange occurances. Like me telling hin he would not be back on the same day flight on the tenth, and sure enough he was not. union station was where, he ended up, and in the dining car sitting with these men, when along came a man bigger than my three hundred pound huge husband. these men had something planned on the am-track, or they would not have had the box cutters in thier pocession. not only that the man walked up just when thet said they were going to san antonio. the other big man said " how strange. I am from san Antonio also." where are you going. They fumbled through their wallets, stamering. Not only that a little woman of color ask my husband to go with her to turn them in " She said "I know what predjudice these men make me uneasy, help me go to the condutor." They let them go after a year, and they say we love America. Sure box cutters. a FBI chase though, the train, they lived in the same apt. as the blind shiek. more to the story which I have told many times, but it was as if the Lord placed my huge husband on the amtrack, along with the other big man, they could never find. They are free, and they were not innocent. Another thing, with Christian respect you judge Bo's motivation in your second post. This is part of my story and my reasoning, and I guess people can judge for themselves. ( LOL) thanks for the comment of my sig. My husband made it up. sorry for spelling, and format computer messed up. and laying here with demon stomache flu.
blessings 
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 11/16/2008 12:29:20 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 4:18:53 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
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quote:
galadriel2
Thanks again, zamdad, for your response, but for what its worth, I think that I am actually trying to be objective and let the word of God define people. Just because they shoot at you doesn't make them soldiers, it seems to me our 'true soldier' zamdad. Them shooting at you makes you feel like they are soldiers, but that doesn't make them soldiers because the Bible isn't defining them as such, it seems to me.
In wartime, if they shoot at us, they aint civilian. Bringing them here, on U.S. soil and putting them through our cirminal justice system allows them to bring more of theei "soldiers" here to do the will of Allah. They are enemy combatants. They have no business in our criminal justice system.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 9:50:45 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 148
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
Which was it? Was it like Abu Graib or like the Chinese torture tactics? It matters which one because the prisoners at Abu Graib were, at the most, humiliated. I have a hard time believing we use Chinese torture tactics.
Now, if there were a plan to bring a dirty bomb to the city nearest you and your entire family could be wiped out, wouldn't you want to know? Now if the person who had that information refused to divulge anything, and you knew he knew things because he was a terrorist VIP, would you just say, "Oh well, he's not talking".
I don't think that anyone should be moved or let go until the war is over. And I don't have a problem with torture because we aren't going to get information by ignoring them. We are at war. I think so many people have ignored that fact. Some even seem to want us to lose. Some hate Bush so much that they want anything that is the opposite of his policies.
IMO, the liberals tend to "over-humanize" criminals (not just foreign but criminals in our own country). My goodness, they think that execution by lethal injection can be potentially cruel and unusual punishment for murderers.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 10:17:05 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 148
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I think Bush was a good president, and neither Bush or Chaney should serve time. Gitmo was not a bad idea. What would you have done? With respect, everyone thinks they could have done a better job. Bush kept this country safe for seven years, has anyone not noticed that. Gitmo is great, I do not want to live in terror, that is what terrorist do. They paralyze their victims with fear, and helplessness. Think about it, have you as a US citizen felt that fear since 9-11. I give Bush a hand how he has handled the war on terror. I do not want, the enemy right up clos and personal in your city? Gotmo is not bad.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lescrivens
Gitmo was one of W biggest mistake. Look, he might be a believer but he was a bad President. Look Bush did not create Gitmo. It was Cheney that created that and Bush went along with it because Cheney really considers Bush as a dog. Cheney ran the real show and Bush was just the puppet that he used.
The liberals tell us that Bush should be impeached. No, he should not. Dick Cheney is one that should be impeaced and serve some time in the slammer
Clinton kept this country safe for 7 years too after the '93 attacks. What's your point?
And yes, calling people cockroaches is not a good idea, so don't try to downplay it. This isn't the first time you've called people of the Islamic faith demeaning names. It shows a great deal of hatred, even if you claim it's not.
It's already been proven that over half the people sent to Gitmo were innocent.
How many more there are innocent?
Clinton kept this country safe? Tell that to the families of the sailors on the USS Cole. That happened after the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton didn't do anything. He sent a few missiles around the globe so people would think he was doing something. Then there were the bombings of the U.S. embassies, where was it, in Somalia? I can't remember which African country. Anyway, he sent a few missiles and hit a pharmacuetical factory. Granted, these attacks weren't on U.S. soil but U.S. citizens were attacked. Our naval vessels and embassies are a part of our country.
What we are talking about has nothing to do with religion or nationality. Perhaps you should go to Michael Savage's website and watch a beheading,(if the videos are still there). And perhaps you didn't know that the terrorists who took over the school in Russia forced a woman to choose either her baby or her older daughter. They told her she could go with only one of her daughters and forced her to choose. She chose her baby and walked away hearing her older daughter calling her and of course the older one was killed and that woman has no life now. She hears her daughter's voice all of the time. Perhaps people here don't understand what we are dealing with. It IS inhuman behavior. Call it what it is. Jesus would. Do you think He doesn't know? He knows we're human and it is incomprehensible to us. We're angered and sickened by terrorism. He understands because He is God and He knows there are circumstances where we are unable to love the sinner.
Where is the proof that over half the people at Gitmo are innocent?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 10:24:30 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1026
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
Which was it? Was it like Abu Graib or like the Chinese torture tactics? It matters which one because the prisoners at Abu Graib were, at the most, humiliated. I have a hard time believing we use Chinese torture tactics.
Then read the story I linked to. Here's the url again:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/02/america/02detain.php
quote:
The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of "coercive management techniques" for possible use on prisoners, including "sleep deprivation," "prolonged constraint," and "exposure."
What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.
That study used the word torture to describe at least some of the techniques involved.
quote:
And I don't have a problem with torture because we aren't going to get information by ignoring them.
Then I deem you repellent and barbaric.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 10:31:58 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 148
Joined: 11/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
galadriel2
Thanks again, zamdad, for your response, but for what its worth, I think that I am actually trying to be objective and let the word of God define people. Just because they shoot at you doesn't make them soldiers, it seems to me our 'true soldier' zamdad. Them shooting at you makes you feel like they are soldiers, but that doesn't make them soldiers because the Bible isn't defining them as such, it seems to me.
In wartime, if they shoot at us, they aint civilian. Bringing them here, on U.S. soil and putting them through our cirminal justice system allows them to bring more of theei "soldiers" here to do the will of Allah. They are enemy combatants. They have no business in our criminal justice system.
Not to mention, some activist judge will let them go.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 10:41:24 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 148
Joined: 11/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
Which was it? Was it like Abu Graib or like the Chinese torture tactics? It matters which one because the prisoners at Abu Graib were, at the most, humiliated. I have a hard time believing we use Chinese torture tactics.
Then read the story I linked to. Here's the url again:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/02/america/02detain.php
quote:
The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of "coercive management techniques" for possible use on prisoners, including "sleep deprivation," "prolonged constraint," and "exposure."
What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.
That study used the word torture to describe at least some of the techniques involved.
quote:
And I don't have a problem with torture because we aren't going to get information by ignoring them.
Then I deem you repellent and barbaric.
So we aren't to pay any attention to what the DOD spokesperson said about the treatment being humane. Just pay attention to that document from the 1950's. Anyway, I'm sure those soldiers of ours over in Baghdad who were captured and mutilated and hung from a bridge would have much preferred being forced to "stand for a prolonged time" or forced to stay awake for a long time, etc. 
Repellent and barbaric? 
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 11:51:15 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
Then I deem you repellent and barbaric.
Then include me among them! I don't know about you essentialsaltes, but I have served this country in uniform. I know that if I was captured, I would get worse treatment than we give. I just love how our media educated citizens love to armchair quarterback things way beyond their limited comprehension. And the sad thing is, my buddies are dying so you can have the right to your opinion.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 12:38:33 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1026
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Then I deem you repellent and barbaric.
Then include me among them!
Done! Would you like an "I approve of torture." t-shirt for Christmas?
quote:
I know that if I was captured, I would get worse treatment than we give.
Even if true, this is not a justification for committing crimes.
quote:
And the sad thing is, my buddies are dying so you can have the right to your opinion.
Sad, yes, and noble.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 12:38:42 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
I believe verse Mom 3:23 reads "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Forgive my ignorance, but what verse, specifically, are your referring to?
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 12:51:44 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I believe verse Mom 3:23 reads "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Forgive my ignorance, but what verse, specifically, are your referring to?
I was not actually referring to the Bible, just some wisdom that you may have learned at your mother's knee.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 1:04:57 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I believe verse Mom 3:23 reads "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Forgive my ignorance, but what verse, specifically, are your referring to?
I was not actually referring to the Bible, just some wisdom that you may have learned at your mother's knee.
My mother never taught me the Bible. I didn't learn scripture until I was an adult. My wisdom didn't come until I prayed to God and asked. His answer was to listen to all those gray heads. Now, I am one.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 7:01:45 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Clinton kept this country safe for 7 years too after the '93 attacks. What's your point?
Clinton kept this country safe? Tell that to the families of the sailors on the USS Cole. That happened after the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton didn't do anything. He sent a few missiles around the globe so people would think he was doing something. Then there were the bombings of the U.S. embassies, where was it, in Somalia? I can't remember which African country. Anyway, he sent a few missiles and hit a pharmacuetical factory. Granted, these attacks weren't on U.S. soil but U.S. citizens were attacked. Our naval vessels and embassies are a part of our country.
Let's not forget the Khobar towers bombing in Saudi Arabia. We had plenty of warning that militant Islamists were doing all they could to kill Americans yet until 9/12 little was done about it.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 7:13:36 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
Let me try to explain it more directly.
A US document from the 1950's described torture tactics used by Chinese interrogators on US soldiers.
Part of that document was used in the 2000's to train US interrogators in how to perform the same torture tactics.
Those torture tactics were indeed used on some prisoners at Gitmo.
If it's torture when Chinese soldiers do it to Americans, it is still torture when Americans perform the same acts on others.
So according to this anonymous source the prisoners in gitmo are regularly made to stand for long periods of time in the cold, yeah those chilly Cuban nights can be killer. The things the 50 year old article called torture were semi starvation (which we don't do), exploitation of wounds (which we don't do, we actually treat them), and keeping them in filthy conditions (which we don't do).
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 12:35:55 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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You know, I will deem you like I would Jane Fonda, in the 1960's a tratior. You have no right to deem a fellow american anything so stupid. Who died and left you the great and mighty judge. get a life, and reality check.
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
Which was it? Was it like Abu Graib or like the Chinese torture tactics? It matters which one because the prisoners at Abu Graib were, at the most, humiliated. I have a hard time believing we use Chinese torture tactics.
Then read the story I linked to. Here's the url again:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/02/america/02detain.php
quote:
The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of "coercive management techniques" for possible use on prisoners, including "sleep deprivation," "prolonged constraint," and "exposure."
What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.
That study used the word torture to describe at least some of the techniques involved.
quote:
And I don't have a problem with torture because we aren't going to get information by ignoring them.
Then I deem you repellent and barbaric.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 1:01:51 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
You know, I will deem you like I would Jane Fonda, in the 1960's a tratior. You have no right to deem a fellow american anything so stupid. Who died and left you the great and mighty judge. get a life, and reality check.
Let me get this straight.
Torture is illegal in the US.
MillieCat and zamdad clearly and unambiguously support the use of torture.
I deplore their support for criminal activity.
And I am the traitor?
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"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 2:02:35 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I have some questions for you. Do you think these men who are gitmo detainees appreciate your loyalty? Do you think the detainees if released would do harm to you if given the chance? Do you want them in your neck of the woods after they are released, do you trust them, with your life, or your families? Look, when severe abuse was going on, we court martialed soldiers for this. I am sure gitmo is no spa, but, I am also sure these men get three square meals a day, and are not maimed, killed, or permently injured. Why not keep these men locked up? Would you want Charles Manson as a neighbor. I heard the other day he is 77 years old. Should he be released? He was not there at the killings, his followers did it. I do not here you shout "release Charles Manson!" They do not need to be here so they can have communication with each other. This is why I say where is your reality, does it stand for PC, or what is truth.
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ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
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ORIGINAL: lightshineon
You know, I will deem you like I would Jane Fonda, in the 1960's a tratior. You have no right to deem a fellow american anything so stupid. Who died and left you the great and mighty judge. get a life, and reality check.
Let me get this straight.
Torture is illegal in the US.
MillieCat and zamdad clearly and unambiguously support the use of torture.
I deplore their support for criminal activity.
And I am the traitor?
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 11/16/2008 2:16:10 PM >
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/16/2008 3:21:09 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
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ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
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ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I think Bush was a good president, and neither Bush or Chaney should serve time. Gitmo was not a bad idea. What would you have done? With respect, everyone thinks they could have done a better job. Bush kept this country safe for seven years, has anyone not noticed that. Gitmo is great, I do not want to live in terror, that is what terrorist do. They paralyze their victims with fear, and helplessness. Think about it, have you as a US citizen felt that fear since 9-11. I give Bush a hand how he has handled the war on terror. I do not want, the enemy right up clos and personal in your city? Gotmo is not bad.
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ORIGINAL: lescrivens
Gitmo was one of W biggest mistake. Look, he might be a believer but he was a bad President. Look Bush did not create Gitmo. It was Cheney that created that and Bush went along with it because Cheney really considers Bush as a dog. Cheney ran the real show and Bush was just the puppet that he used.
The liberals tell us that Bush should be impeached. No, he should not. Dick Cheney is one that should be impeaced and serve some time in the slammer
Clinton kept this country safe for 7 years too after the '93 attacks. What's your point?
And yes, calling people cockroaches is not a good idea, so don't try to downplay it. This isn't the first time you've called people of the Islamic faith demeaning names. It shows a great deal of hatred, even if you claim it's not.
It's already been proven that over half the people sent to Gitmo were innocent.
How many more there are innocent?
Clinton kept this country safe? Tell that to the families of the sailors on the USS Cole. That happened after the 1993 WTC bombing. Clinton didn't do anything. He sent a few missiles around the globe so people would think he was doing something. Then there were the bombings of the U.S. embassies, where was it, in Somalia? I can't remember which African country. Anyway, he sent a few missiles and hit a pharmacuetical factory. Granted, these attacks weren't on U.S. soil but U.S. citizens were attacked. Our naval vessels and embassies are a part of our country.
What we are talking about has nothing to do with religion or nationality. Perhaps you should go to Michael Sava | | |
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