RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? I keep struggling with the answer...
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 11/30/2008 12:30:36 PM
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creationtalk
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The Old Testament is the foundation for the New Testament. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law. That is meaningless if we do not understand the what the Law was for.
The Old Testament tells us who God is--Creator of heaven and earth and every thing in them--this give him the right to make the rules. It tells us what Sin is--disobeying God and to clarify things, it also lists a bunch of things God considers sin. It lays out the penalty for sin (death--a blood covering) and it tells us about the sacrificial lamb, so that we understand why Jesus is the Lamb of God. The New Testament tells us that Jesus is the creator God.
The Old Testament tells us that God knew us before we were born--that he "knit us together in our mother's womb." Maybe that means something special to me because I do needle work.
And I can tell you that at least parts of the Old Testament apply to our life today. My house came through Hurricane Katrina without losing a shingle, when all around the house was destruction--before the storm hit I was praying the Psalms over the house. "The Lord is my rock and my fortress. I will run to him and hide in the shelter of his wings." The only explanation for the lack of damage to the house is that the house WAS sheltered under God's wing.
There are many laws in the Old Testament that no longer apply--for example, Paul was shown that the dietary laws that were put in place because the people were traveling in the desert and could not prepare food properly were no longer necessary. Also, the dietary restrictions were to be a visible picture of what God was trying to teach them--they were not to eat fish that were bottom feeders--because these fish ate carrion, and other waste, etc.--they were not to eat pigs because of how and what pigs eat (also pigs carry disease) because these foods were an example of the types of "dead stuff and trash" that comes out of our mouths when we speak hurtful or untrue words. The Israelites however made the instructions in to a ritual and totally missed the picture that God was trying to show them. Jesus did NOT do away with God's laws--the Ten Commandments (Exodus and Deuteronomy)--still hold today. Jesus paid the penalty for the law, but he also came to bring the standard's back to their original purpose--adultery is no longer only an act, but an attitude. So when Paul was shown it was OK to eat the "forbidden" foods, he also finally saw the real purpose behind the restrictions. It wasn't some foods that went into the mouth that were "unclean" it was that some words that came out of the mouth that were "unclean."
And yes, I believe we are to be politically active. Jesus was politically active. The "religious" leaders of the Jews were also the political leaders--allowed to act under the Roman rule to keep the people in line.
< Message edited by creationtalk -- 11/30/2008 12:57:06 PM >
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 11/30/2008 2:21:31 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
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quote:
ORIGINAL: creationtalk
There are many laws in the Old Testament that no longer apply--for example, Paul was shown that the dietary laws that were put in place because the people were traveling in the desert and could not prepare food properly were no longer necessary. Also, the dietary restrictions were to be a visible picture of what God was trying to teach them--they were not to eat fish that were bottom feeders--because these fish ate carrion, and other waste, etc.--they were not to eat pigs because of how and what pigs eat (also pigs carry disease) because these foods were an example of the types of "dead stuff and trash" that comes out of our mouths when we speak hurtful or untrue words. The Israelites however made the instructions in to a ritual and totally missed the picture that God was trying to show them. Jesus did NOT do away with God's laws--the Ten Commandments (Exodus and Deuteronomy)--still hold today. Jesus paid the penalty for the law, but he also came to bring the standard's back to their original purpose--adultery is no longer only an act, but an attitude. So when Paul was shown it was OK to eat the "forbidden" foods, he also finally saw the real purpose behind the restrictions. It wasn't some foods that went into the mouth that were "unclean" it was that some words that came out of the mouth that were "unclean."
I believe this is a rationalization of the Tanach(old testiment). The Scriptures do not, in my opinion, give these explanations for Adonai's commands. The bottom line is that we do as Adonai commands because He is Adonai. It is correct that many of the rabbinic "fences" were not appropriate for application to everyone. However, the doctrines and rationalizations of our day are no better. One's interpretation of the Scriptures is always secondary to what the Scriptures actually say. That interpretation may be of value to people in general, it may be valuable to the specific individual, or it may be of no use whatsoever. Things are not always as simple as they appear and the most comfortable explanation is not always the best.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 11/30/2008 7:15:05 PM
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dt29
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My personal take is this, we live in a fallen world that is building toward Christ second coming at a time of widespread ungodliness. So hoping that God's word finds it's way into politics and affects change seems to be less and less likely given that we as Christians expect the scripture of Revelation to play out. Now does that mean you completly turn your back on politics? I think we still have a duty as Christians to preach the word with our voice and lifestyle.
Also, Christ did not come to overthrow or correct governments, cure disease, stop war, etc., nor did he command his disciples to do the same. But Christ came by God's will and plan from the foundation time to be a ransom for many, who were seperated from God through sin. He called us to repent, and as Lord of our lives, God will work in lives to make us more Christ like to reach other lost sheep in His name so that they might be saved according to His will and grow the kingdom of GOD. So I tend to see our call as Christians to be individual. I guess also that the human thinking inside me has also given up on politics since money is such a huge part of politics and our society.
As for the OT having application to ours lives, absolutely yes! I used to be heavy in the NT and sAW the OT has MORE historical information, as the NT was the gospel and should be focused on more, but since then God has use the OT to speak volumes about His character and how He works in the world around us. I think JOB is one of the most crucial books of the OT. It shows how evil must ask God for permission or operates under the complete "veto" hand of God, truly establishes God as the supreme ruler over ALL things. It also shows that bad things happen to good people and God still expects us to focus on Him and not cast doubt or critisim on His rule, even when His plan brought about those bad things. JOB is a must to have revealed to you as the valley's of life will inevitably happen.
I also think that Joseph being betrayed and left for dead by his brothers is another powerful revealation of God's character and how He brings us through tough times, and He works in all things for His purpose.
Moses call is also evident that God is the one that raises people up, we don't raise ourselve up and triumph..."The Lord will fight for you, you need only be still"....is a great scripture to lean on or humble ourselves before. Moses didn't think "he" was the right choice for God's plan, but God choose him anyway and rose him up. God is always the one at work, we are not the fuel that turns this world, God's devine plan is.
I would really encourage you to seek out God in the OT, it's value is huge to the christian walk.
_____________________________
"Believe me, my advice is easier said than done. And when I give advice, the person that needs to follow it the most and struggles the greatest with it is...ME!"
Feel free to email me replies: davidtemple29@gmail.com
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 12/1/2008 4:16:23 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dt29
Christ did not come to overthrow or correct governments, cure disease, stop war, etc., nor did he command his disciples to do the same.
Matthew 10:5&8 "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: . . . Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 12/1/2008 7:30:10 PM
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cchsfcaleader
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if we are listening to God, how come we aren't doing these things anymore. all it takes is faith
(NIV) Matthew 9:
19.Jesus got up and went with him, and so did his disciples.
20.Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak.
21.She said to herself, "If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed."
22.Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 12/1/2008 7:50:29 PM
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dt29
Posts: 34
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: dt29
Christ did not come to overthrow or correct governments, cure disease, stop war, etc., nor did he command his disciples to do the same.
Matthew 10:5&8 "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: . . . Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
I was making a high level statement about Christ's supreme purpose for salvation and reclaimig the lost, not His intent to completly turn the tide of the bad things in this fallen world but to call sinners to repentence. My sentence should have been structured to say that He did not command his disciples to overthrow governments. Yes I know he cured disease and ailments and commanded the disciples to glorify God and destined them to do the same in his Name to bring glory to the father. I should have stated it "cure disease completlely"....PM me if you continue to take issue with my words and want to call out my replies. Let's not hijack this person's thread.
< Message edited by dt29 -- 12/1/2008 7:57:31 PM >
_____________________________
"Believe me, my advice is easier said than done. And when I give advice, the person that needs to follow it the most and struggles the greatest with it is...ME!"
Feel free to email me replies: davidtemple29@gmail.com
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RE: Can we apply parts of the O.T. to our lives today? ... - 12/1/2008 8:23:12 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dt29
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: dt29
Christ did not come to overthrow or correct governments, cure disease, stop war, etc., nor did he command his disciples to do the same.
Matthew 10:5&8 "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: . . . Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
I was making a high level statement about Christ's supreme purpose for salvation and reclaimig the lost, not His intent to completly turn the tide of the bad things in this fallen world but to call sinners to repentence. My sentence should have been structured to say that He did not command his disciples to overthrow governments. Yes I know he cured disease and ailments and commanded the disciples to glorify God and destined them to do the same in his Name to bring glory to the father. I should have stated it "cure disease completlely"....PM me if you continue to take issue with my words and want to call out my replies. Let's not hijack this person's thread.
I just saw your assertion and recalled a verse that appeared to say otherwise. I didn't even comment on it. I just posted it. I don't see how this is "hijacking" the thread.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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