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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:00:16 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bas
What do you think of this? Outlandish statement from a paranoid right-winger, or real possibility?
What about a private domestic army answering only to Obama? What exactly would this force do to fill it's time? Is this a bad idea? If so, how do citizens stop it from happening?
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00
With the context of the statements from Mr. Obama, it appears to be a pretty sad commentary on the congressman from Georgia if he is so unable to understand the difference between a peaceful civilian group designed to implement PEACEFUL initiatives and build goodwill towards America around the world and an armed force designed to act as a secret service.
Looking at U.S. foreign policy, I can see how the congressman made the mistake since in so many ways, it has been a "shoot first, ask questions later" type of policy. So far, if one is talking about "national security" the only thing they CAN be talking about is a show of armed force, huh? What it appears Mr. Obama was trying to say was that there is more than one way to skin a cat-what Mr. Clinton did for volunteerism with the Ameiricorp Program (which is FAR from an armed force) it appears Mr. Obama is proposing to do for the world - spread HELP and HEALING and in that way, secure our nation through goodwill. What is dismaying is that it is such a foreign concept that such silly comparisons can be made and taken seriously.
Why does it seem more and more that the "peacekeepers" are the ones with guns?
And by the way, I hope you're right. I really, really do.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:04:53 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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That is part of the problem. Someone once rightly said that if we cannot learn from the past we will be sure to repeat it. And, those who chafe under our present limited government, under the Constitution, repeatedly also chafe at remembering the past as a warning for the future.
You dismiss it as if somehow the events in Russia, when the Communists took over, Germany when the NAZIs took over, Italy when the FASCISTs took over, China when the MAOISTS took over, Vietnam when the Communists took over, Cambodia when the Communists took over and North Korea when the Communists took over never took place and have nothing to say for the future.
And, you know why you chafe at this?
It's very simple. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE REPRESSIVE STATES WAS BASED ON SOCIALISM. The common thread in ALL of them was SOCIALISM. And, somehow you think YOUR socialism is going to be different. IT WILL NOT BE DIFFERENT. IT WILL BE JUST AS REPRESSIVE AS ALL THE REST.
But, you don't want to believe that. So, you must ridicule looking to the past as a predictor of the future. So, we'll end up repeating it since you now have the critical mass you need to destroy the Constitution.
I'm old enough not to be here when this all works out differently than your dreams. But, my grandchildren and, perhaps, your grandchildren WILL suffer for the stupidity of this generation and they will not call our generation anything like the "Greatest Generation". It will be more like the children in East Germany a few years ago looked back on THEIR grandparents of the Third Reich. Not all that endearingly.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
Schutzstaffel.
Gesundheit. Whenever the Hitler argument shows up in a discussion, it signals a hyperbolic shift.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:40:37 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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It wasn't too long ago that the Dems were calling for the Minuteman Project to be disbanded. What is the difference between them and the bunch Obama wants to assemble? Probably that the Minutemen are law abiding citizens trying to accomplish a much needed goal, whereas the Obamarmy................. who knows?!?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:44:18 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
Obama's original comment
Direct comparison to the military, saying this force needs to be just as strong and just as powerful. The logical inference is that he is talking about an armed force.
-Robb
Of course that is a clip of the most provocative sounding statement from Mr. Obama, cut for effect to try to make a point the poster intended.
He said what he said. If anything, Obama is the one to blame for that. Live by sound bites, die by sound bites. The problem is the use of the term 'FORCE' coupled with 'just as POWERFUL, just as STRONG' which implies a military style of organization.
quote:
That aside, I'm wondering what level of "logic" you feel is being applied by inferring that Mr. Obama is advocating in a public campaign speech an illegal (as in against the constitution) armed military force which reports only to him?
Uh... maybe because of the structure of his words? 'Force' + 'Powerful' + "strong"
quote:
The premise is so silly it's laughable.
Let's hope so. But, it doesn't help that Obama hasn't felt the need to be more clear on the subject, even though he did have an oblique reference which I will link to at the end of this post.
quote:
If Mr. McCain's campaign had found some way to logically spin this statement into that big of a whopper, don't you think they would have attempted to do so? I mean they had an 8 year old Barack Obama out palling around with terrorists, wouldn't they have seized upon an actual ILLEGAL statement made by Mr. Obama if they were able to do so with any level of integrity? At least on the ridiculous Ayers charges, they could place Mr. Obama at the scene of Mr. Ayers' home. In this case, this silly mis-quote would not only not stand on it's own two feet, Mr. McCain would have been laughed out if he had tried to make it on this statement-that's why he didn't in the campaign (though he did desperately need some method of overcoming Mr. Obama's popularity-if this were out there available to him, don't doubt for a second that he would have spun it to his advantage).
There you go with the typical Obama Adoration Society ploy of trying to dismiss Obama's links with bad guys due to age differences. I've said it over and over. The old 60's terrorists are SO infused with the heady days of their insurrection that it's virtually ALL they will talk about. You can bet that Ayers and Obama had HOURS of conversation about Ayers political views and his history. And, it WASN'T when Obama was 8 years old. Now you are just being silly.
quote:
I'm quite certain that Mr. Obama will do many things regarding policy that you do not agree with over the next years we have him as the President of the United States. Wait until you have some of those to make fun of and have an actual point. Making silly "points" like this really cheapen the speaker making them as opposed to the target of their "arguments".
I can assure you that having a socialist president will provide plenty of opportunities for rejecting his policies and Supreme Court picks.
But, if you stop be being silly for a while, then maybe this might help diffuse some of the fear that his incautious words created. It's a full interview where he gives us a glimpse of what he means by Civilian National Security Force.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:46:16 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
That doesn't mean it's likely. Obama can't create this type security force by executive order because massive funding is required.
ROFL........................
How much of money from abroad has he already raised?
And he's supposed to protect us from enemies from abroad and from within?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:49:56 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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The problem is that Obama has left it up to our imaginations as to just what he means by a Civilian National Security Force. And, the loaded word in that moniker is 'Force'. Had he used the term 'political apparatus' rather than force, then the reactions would have been different.
I've linked to an article where he uses the term in a way that makes it appear that what he means by this is a cadre of people with civilian skills that can go WITH the military into conflict areas and do the 'pacification' types of skills that the military is now doing on an ad-hoc basis.
But, none of us has a clue as to what he really means, since this very precise person has decided to be imprecise on this issue. As imprecise, I might add, as he has been with his birth certificate! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
It wasn't too long ago that the Dems were calling for the Minuteman Project to be disbanded. What is the difference between them and the bunch Obama wants to assemble? Probably that the Minutemen are law abiding citizens trying to accomplish a much needed goal, whereas the Obamarmy................. who knows?!?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:52:55 PM
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EStan
Posts: 441
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
It wasn't too long ago that the Dems were calling for the Minuteman Project to be disbanded. What is the difference between them and the bunch Obama wants to assemble? Probably that the Minutemen are law abiding citizens trying to accomplish a much needed goal, whereas the Obamarmy................. who knows?!?
the Minutemen are trying to keep illegal immigrants Democratic voters from crossing the border.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 4:59:15 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
It wasn't too long ago that the Dems were calling for the Minuteman Project to be disbanded. What is the difference between them and the bunch Obama wants to assemble? Probably that the Minutemen are law abiding citizens trying to accomplish a much needed goal, whereas the Obamarmy................. who knows?!?
the Minutemen are trying to keep illegal immigrants Democratic voters from crossing the border.
OUCH!!!! On the head!!!
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:02:03 PM
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LabGuy
Posts: 3309
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: NW Pennsylvania
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
But, if you stop be being silly for a while, then maybe this might help diffuse some of the fear that his incautious words created. It's a full interview where he gives us a glimpse of what he means by Civilian National Security Force.
Thank you for the link. If that is indeed what he means, then there really is no issue here.
-Robb
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:15:48 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
The idea of a 'Civilian Security Force' that could, in effect, bypass laws against our current military being use on civilians doesn't trouble you?
Maybe you don't remember Little Rock, Arkansas or Selma, Alabama. But, I do. And, maybe you don't remember the animosity that the FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, had toward Martin Luther King. But, I do. If Hoover were presiding over a 'Civilian Security Force' at the time of King's March on Washington, could it have happened? The fact that the FBI was NOT a paramilitary organization was a good thing, wasn't it?
The shallowness of the thinking on these forums is amazing. Laugh now. But, if ANY president is able to build a paramilitary organization under the Executive branch targeted at 'internal security' then Mao's Red Guards will look like boy scouts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: -J-
I'll go with "Outlandish statement from a paranoid right-winger" for $2000 Alex.
Right you are, J! Now it's time for the Daily Double (applause). 
That was before my time, but you know TMeeks like someone else stated, this could be a real possibility. And you know there are enough blind supporters of Obamas that would join such an organization if he implemented it. I'm thinking of the Missouri truth squad of Obama supporters that were prosecutors and law enforcement types. Yeah, so it's a definite possibility unfortunately.   We just need to keep a close watch on him during his Presidency.
And what exactly would that accomplish? It's not like you'd be able to actually DO anything about it if he did decide to set up an American Gestapo. Which, by the way, he's not.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:21:28 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
I think I've mentioned it before on the Forum, but my guess is the "foot soldiers" would be recruited from the ranks of the poorest and most disaffected members of our society. A good salary, not to mention the power that comes with being part of that force, would all but guarantee personal loyalty to the President, not the country.
Plus there's the Second Amendment angle. Once the "Civilian National Security Force" is in place, Obama can argue it fulfills the role of a "well-regulated militia" under the Amendment, and eliminate private gun ownership. (He only needs to flip one Supreme Court vote to get away with it.)
-Robb
And yet you favor the tax system as it is to prevent these people from rising out of the ranks of the poorest so they're chomping at the bit to join this kind of force. Funny stuff.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:30:59 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
But, if you stop be being silly for a while, then maybe this might help diffuse some of the fear that his incautious words created. It's a full interview where he gives us a glimpse of what he means by Civilian National Security Force.
Thank you for the link. If that is indeed what he means, then there really is no issue here.
-Robb
agreed.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:32:32 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
I think I've mentioned it before on the Forum, but my guess is the "foot soldiers" would be recruited from the ranks of the poorest and most disaffected members of our society. A good salary, not to mention the power that comes with being part of that force, would all but guarantee personal loyalty to the President, not the country.
Plus there's the Second Amendment angle. Once the "Civilian National Security Force" is in place, Obama can argue it fulfills the role of a "well-regulated militia" under the Amendment, and eliminate private gun ownership. (He only needs to flip one Supreme Court vote to get away with it.)
-Robb
And yet you favor the tax system as it is to prevent these people from rising out of the ranks of the poorest so they're chomping at the bit to join this kind of force. Funny stuff.
That isn't the problem. The problem is the breakdown of the family in the AA community. It is the welfare mentality that has kept the largest percentage enslaved to the slums.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:34:01 PM
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EStan
Posts: 441
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
I think I've mentioned it before on the Forum, but my guess is the "foot soldiers" would be recruited from the ranks of the poorest and most disaffected members of our society. A good salary, not to mention the power that comes with being part of that force, would all but guarantee personal loyalty to the President, not the country.
Plus there's the Second Amendment angle. Once the "Civilian National Security Force" is in place, Obama can argue it fulfills the role of a "well-regulated militia" under the Amendment, and eliminate private gun ownership. (He only needs to flip one Supreme Court vote to get away with it.)
-Robb
And yet you favor the tax system as it is to prevent these people from rising out of the ranks of the poorest so they're chomping at the bit to join this kind of force. Funny stuff.
That isn't the problem. The problem is the breakdown of the family in the AA community. It is the welfare mentality that has kept the largest percentage enslaved to the slums.
100% right, Steph.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:37:04 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 869
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: somewhere over the rainbow
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
And what exactly would that accomplish? It's not like you'd be able to actually DO anything about it if he did decide to set up an American Gestapo. Which, by the way, he's not.
Um yes we would. Millions of armed Americans would be able to do something about it...  Oh, and none of us are hoping this happens. I hope I'm wrong, but I am not going to dismiss the possibility of it occurring. We all know what Obama believes. His Marxist beliefs. It's been said over and over again in various threads here by others so I don't need to reiterate.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
That is part of the problem. Someone once rightly said that if we cannot learn from the past we will be sure to repeat it. And, those who chafe under our present limited government, under the Constitution, repeatedly also chafe at remembering the past as a warning for the future.
You dismiss it as if somehow the events in Russia, when the Communists took over, Germany when the NAZIs took over, Italy when the FASCISTs took over, China when the MAOISTS took over, Vietnam when the Communists took over, Cambodia when the Communists took over and North Korea when the Communists took over never took place and have nothing to say for the future.
And, you know why you chafe at this?
It's very simple. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE REPRESSIVE STATES WAS BASED ON SOCIALISM. The common thread in ALL of them was SOCIALISM. And, somehow you think YOUR socialism is going to be different. IT WILL NOT BE DIFFERENT. IT WILL BE JUST AS REPRESSIVE AS ALL THE REST.
But, you don't want to believe that. So, you must ridicule looking to the past as a predictor of the future. So, we'll end up repeating it since you now have the critical mass you need to destroy the Constitution.
I'm old enough not to be here when this all works out differently than your dreams. But, my grandchildren and, perhaps, your grandchildren WILL suffer for the stupidity of this generation and they will not call our generation anything like the "Greatest Generation". It will be more like the children in East Germany a few years ago looked back on THEIR grandparents of the Third Reich. Not all that endearingly.
Awesome post TMeeks. Why is it that people think they could do a better job of it here than what's been done elsewhere?  I simply don't understand it. All the examples you have given makes it pretty clear to me that more government doesn't mean better.
ETA: Your last paragraph makes me think of this great Reagan quote and I find it very fitting in the current environment.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 5:57:27 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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Between the Domestic ParaMilitary force he's talked of building, and his 10 million person online army, it'll be pretty darned difficult to put up a decent resistance. The best we can hope for is Congress not funding that particular executive order.
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 6:02:28 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 148
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
The idea of a 'Civilian Security Force' that could, in effect, bypass laws against our current military being use on civilians doesn't trouble you?
Maybe you don't remember Little Rock, Arkansas or Selma, Alabama. But, I do. And, maybe you don't remember the animosity that the FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, had toward Martin Luther King. But, I do. If Hoover were presiding over a 'Civilian Security Force' at the time of King's March on Washington, could it have happened? The fact that the FBI was NOT a paramilitary organization was a good thing, wasn't it?
The shallowness of the thinking on these forums is amazing. Laugh now. But, if ANY president is able to build a paramilitary organization under the Executive branch targeted at 'internal security' then Mao's Red Guards will look like boy scouts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: -J-
I'll go with "Outlandish statement from a paranoid right-winger" for $2000 Alex.
Right you are, J! Now it's time for the Daily Double (applause).
That was before my time, but you know TMeeks like someone else stated, this could be a real possibility. And you know there are enough blind supporters of Obamas that would join such an organization if he implemented it. I'm thinking of the Missouri truth squad of Obama supporters that were prosecutors and law enforcement types. Yeah, so it's a definite possibility unfortunately. We just need to keep a close watch on him during his Presidency.
And what exactly would that accomplish? It's not like you'd be able to actually DO anything about it if he did decide to set up an American Gestapo. Which, by the way, he's not.
How do you know?
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 6:30:25 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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I am having trouble trying to understand why Obama thinks we need this type of security? I do not understand the purpose for the group.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 6:57:05 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
I think I've mentioned it before on the Forum, but my guess is the "foot soldiers" would be recruited from the ranks of the poorest and most disaffected members of our society. A good salary, not to mention the power that comes with being part of that force, would all but guarantee personal loyalty to the President, not the country.
Plus there's the Second Amendment angle. Once the "Civilian National Security Force" is in place, Obama can argue it fulfills the role of a "well-regulated militia" under the Amendment, and eliminate private gun ownership. (He only needs to flip one Supreme Court vote to get away with it.)
-Robb
And yet you favor the tax system as it is to prevent these people from rising out of the ranks of the poorest so they're chomping at the bit to join this kind of force. Funny stuff.
That isn't the problem. The problem is the breakdown of the family in the AA community. It is the welfare mentality that has kept the largest percentage enslaved to the slums.
100% right, Steph.
Hmmm. So the two of you believe that only African Americans receive welfare and live in slums. And furthermore, only African Americans come from broken families. Got it.
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 7:02:38 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1621
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
Status: offline
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quote:
What do you think of this? Outlandish statement from a paranoid right-winger, or real possibility?
I love how they guy says: "I'm not comparing Obama to Hitler" and then goes ahead and does it in the following sentence.
He's a paranoid nutbag.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship - 11/11/2008 7:03:25 PM
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EStan
Posts: 441
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
I think I've mentioned it before on the Forum, but my guess is the "foot soldiers" would be recruited from the ranks of the poorest and most disaffected members of our society. A good salary, not to mention the power that comes with being part of that force, would all but guarantee personal loyalty to the President, not the country.
Plus there's the Second Amendment angle. Once the "Civilian National Security Force" is in place, Obama can argue it fulfills the role of a "well-regulated militia" under the Amendment, and eliminate private gun ownership. (He only needs to flip one Supreme Court vote to get away with it.)
-Robb
And yet you favor the tax system as it is to prevent these people from rising out of the ranks of the poorest so they're chomping at the bit to join this kind of force. Funny stuff.
That isn't the problem. The problem is the breakdown of the family in the AA community. It is the welfare mentality that has kept the largest percentage enslaved | | |
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