RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrorists'
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 11:53:51 AM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
At the very worst, Ayers is a someone who has paid his debt to society.
No ... actually he got off because the arresting officer neglected to read him his miranda rights. In 2001 one he stated he did not regret the bombings and only wished they could have done more.
Well shame on the justice system. That still doesn't mean that Obama somehow sympathizes with his actions. The logic provided here suggest that somehow if you work with someone or are a acquaintance, you somehow sympathize with their beliefs. I work with Muslims on my job. There are some on my job who I know have views different than my own from politics to religion, that doesn't mean I sympathize with them. But I can still work with them for a common cause or goal. The problem with some people is they can only function in an environment where they are surrounded with people who think and act like them. The world is bigger than that. You have to learn how to get along with people you disagree with and respect them as individuals with different paths in life. You can do that without sympathizing with them. I can tell my friends they were dead wrong if they did something I disagreed with. It doesn't mean we're no longer friends or that I can no longer respect them as a person. Some how we have got the notion that being different is somehow evil. Would I rather Ayers not bombed those buildings and regretted doing so? Of course. As I'm sure Obama does as well. Should Ayer's be cut off from society? That's debatable. And I'm not excusing his actions. But to assign the sins of Ayer's onto Obama is a stretch. If that's the case, we assume anyone's sins we associate with knowingly or unknowingly.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:01:25 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Well shame on the justice system.
What do you mean? You didn't even know this until someone told you that this was the case; and that's the problem, you keep commenting on an issue you really don't know anything about in a blind defense of Obama. Why would you continue to defend people you really haven't studied or shown any indication of being familiar with their actual activities?
Don't you think this election is important enough that you should vote based on things you actually know?
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:13:52 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I think Palin is bordering on false accusations, myself. Isn't that wrong for a believer?
How does a verifiable fact 'border on a false accusation'?!
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:14:05 PM
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ayani
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I was very surprised when I opened the paper this morning to see Gov. Palin said something like that.... 
John McCain used to be against such sleazy tactics, and I hope this was just something that he didn't know about.
What she says is an outright falsehood - seems like a violation of the 9th commandment. Serving on a board six years ago and living in the same neighborhood with Ayers is not 'palling around'. Given her self-admitted weakness in articulating thoughts in public, we'll have to defer judgement on whether she intended to bear false witness or not.
Desperation can make normally good and honest people do things they'd normally not do.
Barack Obama is not responsible for all the sins of everyone he associates with. Is there anything in what Obama has every said, or done, that indicates he is sympathetic to terrorism, that he is an anti-American terrorist sympathiser? No, nothing. So, implying he's buddies with a terrorist, and is sympathetic with terrorism, is more of the sleaze we've come to see in an age when honesty and respect are replaced with an 'anything goes if it benefits me' mentality.
Would it be honest for a McCain opponent to say that John McCain ' is palling around with convicted fraudsters and rackateers' ? No, even though he in the 1980's had some tight connections with conviced felon Charles Keating?. That he is 'palling around with anti-Catholic bigots' because of his efforts to endear himself with John Hagee? No, because McCain doesn't support the bad things they did, and because he doesn't 'pal around' with them now.
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
And I'm not excusing his actions. But to assign the sins of Ayer's onto Obama is a stretch. If that's the case, we assume anyone's sins we associate with knowingly or unknowingly.
Exactly
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:18:39 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Would it be honest for a McCain opponent to say that John McCain ' is palling around with convicted fraudsters and rackateers' ? No, even though he in the 1980's had some tight connections with conviced felon Charles Keating?. That he is 'palling around with anti-Catholic bigots' because of his efforts to endear himself with John Hagee? No, because McCain doesn't support the bad things they did, and because he doesn't 'pal around' with them now.
Actually, McCain was investigated for this (by a Democratically controlled Congress) and they cleared him of all charges; and had McCain been as involved with Charles Keating as Barak was with Ayers, he should have been convicted. Of course, Obama supporters don't care who Obama associates with as long as he wins; he can do no wrong in the eyes of leftists.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:21:37 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1285
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quote:
What she says is an outright falsehood - seems like a violation of the 9th commandment.
I and plenty of others say it's the truth. The fact that you, and the bulk of the liberal establishment press, would rather downplay it, as well as a serious pattern of corrupt associations, as harmless fun doesn't make any of it less true.
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Molon Labe
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:29:10 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
What she says is an outright falsehood - seems like a violation of the 9th commandment. Serving on a board six years ago and living in the same neighborhood with Ayers is not 'palling around'. Given her self-admitted weakness in articulating thoughts in public, we'll have to defer judgement on whether she intended to bear false witness or not.
Actually, this statement again displays the ingnorance of the left on the matter, willful or otherwise. He didn't just 'serve on a board' with Ayers, he began his political campaign in Ayers home, and has regular and entrenched financial and philosophical ties with Ayers. As Stanley Kurtz wrote:
There is nothing "sporadic" about Barack Obama delivering hundreds of thousands of dollars over a period of many years to fund Bill Ayers’ radical education projects, not to mention many millions more to benefit Ayers’ radical education allies. We are talking about a substantial and lengthy working relationship here, one that does not depend on the quality of personal friendship or number of hours spent in the same room together (although the [NYT] article greatly underestimates that as well).
So if anyone is lying here, it is Obama and his supporters.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:37:00 PM
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ayani
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, McCain was investigated for this (by a Democratically controlled Congress) and they cleared him of all charges; and had McCain been as involved with Charles Keating as Barak was with Ayers, he should have been convicted. Of course, Obama supporters don't care who Obama associates with as long as he wins; he can do no wrong in the eyes of leftists.
Actually, if you look it up, the ties between John McCain and Charles Keating are far more significant than those between Barack Obama and Wm. Ayers. But, my point is not to tar John McCain for that: since that time he's consistantly shown he's an honest guy and the Keating instance does not indicate he's sympathetic to corruption and bribery, and for somene to to say that he 'is palling around with convicted felons and rackateers' would be false. My point is to ask if every action and association of the candidates reflects on them personally. I say no, not by itself.
By the way: I've never said Obama could do no wrong. But in this case, he has done no wrong.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:41:54 PM
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ayani
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, this statement again displays the ingnorance of the left on the matter, willful or otherwise. He didn't just 'serve on a board' with Ayers, he began his political campaign in Ayers home, and has regular and entrenched financial and philosophical ties with Ayers. As Stanley Kurtz wrote:
There is nothing "sporadic" about Barack Obama delivering hundreds of thousands of dollars over a period of many years to fund Bill Ayers’ radical education projects, not to mention many millions more to benefit Ayers’ radical education allies. We are talking about a substantial and lengthy working relationship here, one that does not depend on the quality of personal friendship or number of hours spent in the same room together (although the [NYT] article greatly underestimates that as well).
So if anyone is lying here, it is Obama and his supporters.
No.
Because Ayers supported a community organization doesn't mean everyone else who supported that organization has 'entrenched financial and philosophical ties' with him.
I give money to the United Way. A local meth-dealer gives money to the united way. That doesn't mean I share a 'common philosopy' and have 'financial ties' with meth-dealing. Good grief.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:45:49 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Actually, if you look it up, the ties between John McCain and Charles Keating are far more significant than those between Barack Obama and Wm. Ayers. But, my point is not to tar John McCain for that: since that time he's consistantly shown he's an honest guy and the Keating instance does not indicate he's sympathetic to corruption and bribery, and for somene to to say that he 'is palling around with convicted felons and rackateers' would be false. My point is to ask if every action and association of the candidates reflects on them personally. I say no, not by itself.
By the way: I've never said Obama could do no wrong. But in this case, he has done no wrong.
Please; your intention is to tar McCain - that is why you wrote it in lock step with the Obama campaign's latest ads. So let's not pretend otherwise.
Be that as it may, saying a corrupt lobbyist is 'worse' than domestic terrorist is laughable.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 12:54:35 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
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quote:
No.
Because Ayers supported a community organization doesn't mean everyone else who supported that organization has 'entrenched financial and philosophical ties' with him.
I give money to the United Way. A local meth-dealer gives money to the united way. That doesn't mean I share a 'common philosopy' and have 'financial ties' with meth-dealing. Good grief.
You are either ignorant of the facts or intentionally disembling. Obama and Ayers worked together financially and organizationally to create a radical educational foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Barak not only funded financially, but found more money to support as a state senator. Saying he wasn't involved would be the equivalent of saying someone who started the United Way was 'uninvolved with it' and doesn't share a 'common philosophy' with the organization. Get serious.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:04:47 PM
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stampinlady
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From: Northern IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I think Palin is bordering on false accusations, myself. Isn't that wrong for a believer?
How does a verifiable fact 'border on a false accusation'?!
I uesd the "false accusations" instead of "slander."
Titus 2:3 - "They (older woman) must not slander others."
Are they hanging out at the bars now?
She's misleading those who way or way not know the whole story. That's slander in my eyes.
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Deb
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:04:52 PM
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ayani
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Be that as it may, saying a corrupt lobbyist is 'worse' than domestic terrorist is laughable.
I never said anything of the sort - why do you make that statement in response to me?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Please; your intention is to tar McCain - that is why you wrote it in lock step with the Obama campaign's latest ads. So let's not pretend otherwise.
You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically said I am not going to paint either McCain or Obama over their acquantances with either of those men, and I think claiming that either is 'palling around' with those folks is intentionally deceptive.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:08:18 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I uesd the "false accusations" instead of "slander."
Titus 2:3 - "They (older woman) must not slander others."
Are they hanging out at the bars now?
She's misleading those who way or way not know the whole story. That's slander in my eyes.
You apparently don't know the 'whole story', because if you did, you would know he did much, much more than 'pal around' with him. Palin underplayed Obama's involvement.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:09:27 PM
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stampinlady
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Jhud, is he currently hangin' with Mr. Ayers?????????
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Deb
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:11:51 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I never said anything of the sort - why do you make that statement in response to me?
You said, it was "are far more significant"; how could one's relationship with a lobbyist be more significant than one's relationship with a terrorist?
quote:
You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically said I am not going to paint either McCain or Obama over their acquantances with either of those men, and I think claiming that either is 'palling around' with those folks is intentionally deceptive.
You brought it up! It's like saying, "I am not going to slander Joe Smith by mentioning his affair with a married woman..." Disingenuous and shameful.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:42:09 PM
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ayani
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I never said anything of the sort - why do you make that statement in response to me?
You said, it was "are far more significant"; how could one's relationship with a lobbyist be more significant than one's relationship with a terrorist?
I said "the ties between John McCain and Charles Keating are far more significant than those between Barack Obama and Wm. Ayers". I very clearly said I was talking about the closeness of their their ties. Lets not twist my words around to make people think I said or believe something I don't.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically said I am not going to paint either McCain or Obama over their acquantances with either of those men, and I think claiming that either is 'palling around' with those folks is intentionally deceptive.
You brought it up! It's like saying, "I am not going to slander Joe Smith by mentioning his affair with a married woman..." Disingenuous and shameful.
Not sure I understand: Why is it 'disingenousus and shameful' to mention Charles Keating in a thread about the McCain campaign slamming their opponent about former acquantances?
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:47:27 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I said "the ties between John McCain and Charles Keating are far more significant than those between Barack Obama and Wm. Ayers". I very clearly said I was talking about the closeness of their their ties. Lets not twist my words around to make people think I said or believe something I don't.
Well let's assume that McCain was in bed (figuratively) with Keating, even though he was cleared of any wrong relationship by a Democratic commitee. And let's assume that Obama's relationship with the terrorist Ayers was exactly as the NYTs times has said it is, despite the fact others have claimed the NYT watered it down. Why would the Keating relationship be more 'significant'?
quote:
Not sure I understand: Why is it 'disingenousus and shameful' to mention Charles Keating in a thread about the McCain campaign slamming their opponent about former acquantances?
Again, you are claiming you are not attempting to associate McCain with Keating by associating McCain with Keating; that is the very definition of disingenous.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:50:18 PM
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stamper_ben
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McCain and Keating have come under scrutiny by no less than the very Senate McCain serves in.
Obama and Ayers has been kept under wraps by the both of them and we do not know the whole story.
It's time for this to come clear to the American people and for Obama to come clean about just what this relationship is.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 1:53:13 PM
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Dubya
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I think a major difference is that McCain was fully investigated and all the facts were out for all to see... then McCain was exhonerated.
Obama has been less than forthcoming and this has prompted interested people such as Sean Hannity and others to investigate bringing many facts to light which really don't make Obama look as innocent as he claims.
I would not expect Obama to go through as thorough an examination as McCain went through but basically McCain was fully investigated and it was found that there was nothing there. It may be the same case with Obama so why does he try to hide the full nature of these associations? If there is nothing there, why is he not fully forthcoming on the groundless accusations of Hannity?
Making statements such as "he was 8 years old when Ayers bombed the Pentagon" is absolutely stupid and I think Obama realizes that now.
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 2:08:12 PM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
At the very worst, Ayers is a someone who has paid his debt to society. He was put in jail, served his time, and is now free. He's a professor at a major university. What's the problem? If the dude was such a threat to peace, I'm not sure he would be out of jail or teaching at a university. Second, to call Obama's relationship with Ayers a friendship is stretching the truth. Do I support what Ayers did before I was even born? No. Would I refuse to even be in the same room with him after he's paid his debt to society? Probably not. Whether you know it or not, ex-convicts walk among us and even worship and work next to us all the time. If you sat next to an ex-rapist in church, would you not pray with them? We seem to be holding people accountable to their past when Christ forgave us for ours. This place just ooozes with forgiveness and compassion. What about those of us who sees the good in people and work with that part? Maybe Ayers should have spent his life in jail. Perhaps that's the judicial system's fault. Blame them for allowing him to go free and make acquaintances and teach. Unless Obama is secretly sympathetic Ayers' cause when Obama was 8 and is planning to bomb the White House, this relationship thing is mute and doesn't hold water. Move on. And we wonder why people are so repelled by Christianity. Sometimes we come off so holy we repel rather than attract.
Why let something like FACTS cloud the issue? You obviously know little to nothing of the subject. There are several links posted here and you ought to look at them instead of dismissing what you don't know.
As for Jesus forgiving us of our sins, does repenting for your sins play any part in your beliefs? Ayers NEVER apologized or repented for his actions. Also, Ayers is not a Christian so are you one of them who believes that Christ is not the ONLY way to get to Heaven?
By the way, nice way to slam your fellow Christians. So you believe stating facts is the reason some are repelled by Christians?
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Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 2:15:38 PM
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Jhud
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I love the point by Mark Levin at NRO's The Corner:
If John McCain had belonged to a church for 20 years and that church advocated white supremacy and the pastor of the church spewed racist propaganda wrapped in Biblical verses — much of which was caught on video-tape — what would we say? If McCain's good friends included people involved in blowing up abortion clinics instead of the Capitol Building, the Pentagon, and police stations, what would we say? If McCain was socially close to a professor with ties to neo-Nazi groups in Berlin, as opposed to a professor who had ties to the PLO, what would we say? If McCain spent his formative years schooled in fascism as opposed to Marxism, what would we say?
Every time Obama's life experiences and character are raised, the response is a diversionary tactic. Today, we're supposed to be impressed with the moral equivalency argument (Ayers = Keating Five), or Obama's associations and friendships aren't what they appear to be, or Obama really isn't like all those people he drew around him, or those raising these issues are guilty of McCarthyism. There are 30 days left in this election. It's high time the Obama fan-dance ended.
Amen.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Accuses Obama of 'Palling Around With Terrori... - 10/6/2008 2:37:30 PM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
At the very worst, Ayers is a someone who has paid his debt to society. He was put in jail, served his time, and is now free. He's a professor at a major university. What's the problem? If the dude was such a threat to peace, I'm not sure he would be out of jail or teaching at a university. Second, to call Obama's relationship with Ayers a friendship is stretching the truth. Do I support what Ayers did before I was even born? No. Would I refuse to even be in the same room with him after he's paid his debt to society? Probably not. Whether you know it or not, ex-convicts walk among us and even worship and work next to us all the time. If you sat next to an ex-rapist in church, would you not pray with them? We seem to be holding people accountable to their past when Christ forgave us for ours. This place just ooozes with forgiveness and compassion. What about those of us who sees the good in people and work with that part? Maybe Ayers should have spent his life in jail. Perhaps that's the judicial system's fault. Blame them for allowing him to go free and make acquaintances and teach. Unless Obama is secretly sympathetic Ayers' cause when Obama was 8 and is planning to bomb the White House, this relationship thing is mute and doesn't hold water. Move on. And we wonder why people are so repelled by Christianity. Sometimes we come off so holy we repel rather than attract.
Why let something like FACTS cloud the issue? You obviously know little to nothing of the subject. There are several links posted here and you ought to look at them instead of dismissing what you don't know.
As for Jesus forgiving us of our sins, does repenting for your sins play any part in your beliefs? Ayers NEVER apologized or repented for his actions. Also, Ayers is not a Christian so are you one of them who believes that Christ is not the ONLY way to get to Heaven?
By the way, nice way to slam your fellow Christians. So you believe stating facts is the reason some are repelled by Christians?
Do you honestly think I'm slamming my fellow Christians as some here are slamming their fellow Christian Obama supporters? Even thought it is a fact that people are turned off by some overbearing Christians who give the perception that they have done no wrong and rob all grace and compassion from the message of Christ? Well at least I can admit I got the jail part wrong. That still doesn't excuse the character bashing of his acquaintances. Many people have had relationships with people on the wrong side of the law either knowingly or unknowingly. That doesn't mean they are just as criminal. That's my point.
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