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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 12:16:49 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Liveloved, reading through your answer, it made a lot of sense for you but not for me. I don't have extra money, and when I just give without thought, someone else who is in true need will go without, because I have used up resources that could have been used for them. It has happened before, and you know the old saying, "Once burned . . . ." I just don't have enough to give without thorough investigation, and where investigation is impossible, without as thorough thought as possible at the moment. 
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WhiteRose, now I am thoroughly irritated. This guy is a user, and he thinks you are his patsy. This is the kind of stuff that just sets me off. Gimme his address and let me set a pack of wild dogs after him. This really bothers me, Rose. I am glad you are standing firm on doing the right thing.
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Darling, I never expect anything in return. That is just the way I give at all times -- giving while letting go completely. I wish I had a continuous way of offering work for an hourly pay, but this doesn't happen very often.
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Raivyne, I did go to the "oldest" neighbor, and she literally laughed in my face and let me know that her problem with me is my belief in G-d, then she let me know that this is the main problem with the whole world, saying all this in front of her young daughter. It broke my heart for that child, but I had to wash my hands of it all. We don't treat them any differently, but when they won't answer their door so what we can offer them part of our fruit harvest, that's just the way it goes. I tried to encourage my husband to offer some to her husband, but he didn't want to deal with it. I don't blame him. Whadayado.
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Oldwing, mental illness is very hard for me to deal with directly. I thank G-d for people like you who know how to handle it. I am not sure how I would handle it other than to cocoon from them and pray for them.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 12:34:28 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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Just thought I'd throw in a couple of verses here from Galatians 6 (ISV). I remember these coming up when I was doing some pastoral studies - this part was about healthy boundaries.
Galatians 6 v 2: Practice carrying each other's burdens. In this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6 v 5: For everyone must carry his own load.
What we were taught from these verses is the difference between a burden and a load. A burden is something we can help someone with (temporarily), their load is their responsibility for themselves.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 12:45:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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. . . something to think about through the day.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 1:09:02 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25986
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Currently . . . San Francisco
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
WhiteRose, now I am thoroughly irritated. This guy is a user, and he thinks you are his patsy. This is the kind of stuff that just sets me off. Gimme his address and let me set a pack of wild dogs after him. This really bothers me, Rose. I am glad you are standing firm on doing the right thing. {{{Abiyah}}}
But see . . . I'm not upset about it at all. It didn't really surprise me that he ended up asking me to put it on my account. It did surprise me that he didn't do it from the start.
Just because somebody wants me to do something, doesn't mean that I have to do it. 
If he wants the stuff, he'll pre-pay for the shipping by the deadline I've given. If not, then he doesn't get the stuff (and just for clarity . . . it never was his property in the first place; it's just something that I have that he wants).
A person can think I'm their patsy till the cows come home . . . but their thinking it doesn't make it so. I have a choice in the matter, as well.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
We don't treat them any differently, but when they won't answer their door so what we can offer them part of our fruit harvest, that's just the way it goes. I tried to encourage my husband to offer some to her husband, but he didn't want to deal with it. I don't blame him. Whadayado. This appears as if you are trying to force a gift on someone.
If someone doesn't want to receive what someone else wants to give, then perhaps it best to let things go.
Again, my sincere encouragement to you is to pray to Our Lord for His Wisdom and Guidance before you do or give something (regardless of whether the "something" was your idea or the potential receiver's idea).
I have been on both sides of this coin . . . I have done things on my own accord without consulting Our Lord, AND I have had people want to do or actually have done things for me (without their consulting Our Lord . . . nor me, for that matter). No matter which side of the coin, if Our Lord isn't in it from the beginning, it will turn into a mess.
The verses that Manda posted are very good for this conversation.
There's a balance in everything . . . and for Christians, the balance comes from Our Lord.
HIS Peace and HIS Joy,
Sharon-Marie
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Hey there! This is Sharon-Marie, and you have reached my signature. I may not be here for a while; but if you'd like, please leave a message over in that ramblin’ thread.
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 2:29:02 PM
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Oldwing
Posts: 145
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: New Hampshire, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oldwing, mental illness is very hard for me to deal with directly. I thank G-d for people like you who know how to handle it. I am not sure how I would handle it other than to cocoon from them and pray for them.
That was my initial instinct - to get away as fast and as far as I could. Then I asked myself WWJD? The answer is plain as day, so I tried my best. This is my first encounter with mental illness in an everyday setting [You would not think I got to be 57 years of age without previous experience with this, eh? :)] and it took me a while to come to grips with it. Along the way I felt fearful, but knowing I was with Christ I went ahead and offered this person the peace of our Sunday services. I do pray she will come back.
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Gary
These things I command you, that you love one another. John 15:17
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 7:00:52 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
We don't treat them any differently, but when they won't answer their door so what we can offer them part of our fruit harvest, that's just the way it goes. I tried to encourage my husband to offer some to her husband, but he didn't want to deal with it. I don't blame him. Whadayado. This appears as if you are trying to force a gift on someone.
If someone doesn't want to receive what someone else wants to give, then perhaps it best to let things go.
Again, my sincere encouragement to you is to pray to Our Lord for His Wisdom and Guidance before you do or give something (regardless of whether the "something" was your idea or the potential receiver's idea).
I have been on both sides of this coin . . . I have done things on my own accord without consulting Our Lord, AND I have had people want to do or actually have done things for me (without their consulting Our Lord . . . nor me, for that matter). No matter which side of the coin, if Our Lord isn't in it from the beginning, it will turn into a mess.
The verses that Manda posted are very good for this conversation.
There's a balance in everything . . . and for Christians, the balance comes from Our Lord.
HIS Peace and HIS Joy,
Sharon-Marie
Oh, I just thought that since they seem to like my husband better, they would like to have it from him. Then I thought that maybe the daughter was home alone and declined to answer for that reason. Forever the optomist . . . . or is it that I just think I am always the one who is wrong, so it must have been something wrong with me. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Darling
I was referring to those who came to "offer" you something for something in return without it be overtly stated. I said it as a "motive" check when people make you an offer Yeah! I had never run into this quite like this! At least she was honest!!
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Oldwing, you've got guts! I fall apart around this.
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Stellaluna, You're cute! As usual.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 7:45:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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And writing of such giving, only to find out that they were simply wasteful, since you have all been so forthcoming in your answers, I have been considering this: when I take someone to the grocery store to buy them groceries, no more fast-food groceries. Do you think I can get away with that? I am not sure how yet, but this came up because . . .
I took one person to the grocery store with $50. I thought they could buy quite a bit of food with that, but the cart just had frozen prepared foods and junk food in it when they got up to the checkout counter. My heart just SUNK! I thought, "I could have bought them all kinds of nice fresh stuff that would have lasted for days, instead of that!"
Do I dare restrict my grocery-giving to just healthy, wholesome stuff? Possibly the only way I could do that, though, is do the shopping for them myself -- which might be a good idea!
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 7:47:25 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 6019
Status: offline
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I think it's a great idea! You are feeding them and can teach them to feed themselves better for less money. The fast stuff is way overpriced, not to mention not nearly as healthy or filling or satisfying.
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There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 8:30:49 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
And writing of such giving, only to find out that they were simply wasteful, since you have all been so forthcoming in your answers, I have been considering this: when I take someone to the grocery store to buy them groceries, no more fast-food groceries. Do you think I can get away with that? I am not sure how yet, but this came up because . . .
I took one person to the grocery store with $50. I thought they could buy quite a bit of food with that, but the cart just had frozen prepared foods and junk food in it when they got up to the checkout counter. My heart just SUNK! I thought, "I could have bought them all kinds of nice fresh stuff that would have lasted for days, instead of that!"
Do I dare restrict my grocery-giving to just healthy, wholesome stuff? Possibly the only way I could do that, though, is do the shopping for them myself -- which might be a good idea!
I'd say it depends very much on the individual that you happen to be helping at the time, and their circumstances. If the person is an addict or has mental issues or is unwell, they may not want to be spending a long time preparing food, they will just need to heat something up quick that they can eat right away. If the person is not used to cooking, then giving them lots of fresh stuff may not actually help them at all, if they don't know what to do with it, unless you are thinking of giving them cooking lessons as well. If the person only has a microwave, and no cooker, that also limits what they can cook.
Besides, I personally would feel rather uncomfortable taking someone shopping and then telling them what they could and could not have, like I was their mother or some authority figure. 
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Users - 10/6/2008 9:57:40 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oldwing, mental illness is very hard for me to deal with directly. I thank G-d for people like you who know how to handle it. I am not sure how I would handle it other than to cocoon from them and pray for them.
Covaan_Meshuga,
If you're involved helping homeless people, then you are also involved with people with mental illness issues. Not all homeless people have such issues, but many many do. So it might be advisable to be prepared.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Users - 10/7/2008 12:30:08 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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Thank you, all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I'd say it depends very much on the individual that you happen to be helping at the time, and their circumstances. . . . Besides, I personally would feel rather uncomfortable taking someone shopping and then telling them what they could and could not have, like I was their mother or some authority figure.
Yes, so I would ask a little before buying, but I would get common things, as I have on very rare occasion before. Because we eat only kosher, and I have some allergies to ordinary foods, I am used to considering these things and asking the questions. As much as I hate to shop, I would rather buy the food for them than be demanding to someone's face.
I would be careful.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
If you're involved helping homeless people, then you are also involved with people with mental illness issues. Not all homeless people have such issues, but many many do. So it might be advisable to be prepared.
Yes, I have run into this, and it throws me every time. It's hard. I can handle minor mental illness, and am doing so in a different setting right now, but with the homeless, because their lives are so disjointed, I rarely see the same one more than a couple times, making that part a bit easier.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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