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[Poll]
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Vice President Debate
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| Sen. Joe Biden won |
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| Gov. Sarah Palin won |
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| Draw |
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Total Votes : 74
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(last vote on : 10/7/2008 3:28:06 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:29:30 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
What I did not like about this debate or the debate from last week is that none of candidates has really address the poor. The wealthy were addressed, the middle class was addressed, but what about the poor? What about the minimum wage workers making less than 20k a year, but have to support a family? What about the least of these?
Ain't gonna come up, it's taboo to talk about helping them.
Palin looked so rehearsed. Did'nt answer any questions. Nobody really cares how pretty you look and that you can smile and be mean at the same time.
How are you gonna solve these problems we have? She did'nt answer and most Americans are smart enough to see that.
WE gotta a JOE 6 pack in office, what is refreshing about her being one?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:32:33 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NiceGuy
She obviously did more damage, not just to Senator Biden, but to the Obama campaign as a whole than they anticipated. Middle America: +1, Faculty Lounge: 0.
NiceGuy 
I'm curious - are you able to point out the "damage" that you feel she did?
When I watched the debate, I saw a much more composed lady than I have seen up to now-that was a relief because it was a little embarrassing to watch before-but I didn't see any real solutions coming forth.
I also noticed what I perceived to be several contradictions in what she said. I also did not see a clear distinction in the "maverick" form of change that she feels she and Mr. McCain will bring to Washington and how that differs substantively from the Bush administration (though she did admit that there were mistakes in the current administration and that we needed to learn from them). Conversely, I saw Mr. Biden gloss over some very clear contradictions in policy he held with his now running mate in the past, but overall proposing a very clear direction (and a clear change in policy) IN LINE with not just the current Democratic policy but also in line with steps currently endorsed by many third parties.
Do you feel that she did make a distinction? If so, what was that distinction? Also, if not, what "damage" then did she do? Was the damage in presenting an image other how she has been publicly portrayed up to now (being "better" than people thought she would be)?
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:34:56 AM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Nobody really cares how pretty you look and that you can smile and be mean at the same time.
Perhaps you could tells us some of the things she said that were "mean".
This should be good... 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:40:10 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Palen is in favor of clean coal technolgy as well as other alternative energy sources but denies that the climate change is man-made.
I don't know that I heard her say that she "denies" it-I think I heard in the debate anyway that she "questions" the factors which are the causes for climate change - and while I don't completely hold that position, I would agree that it is a much more sensible position than a flat out rejection of mounting evidence which would suggest that there is less and less need to "question" the causes of global warming.
You are right about her reply. I think another poster corrected me before... I guess I missed something in her response on this.
Frankly though, I personally question the validity of the "mounting evidence".
Back to my main question, how is "clean coal technology" more environmentally friendly than oil - especially regarding "global warming"?
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:40:20 AM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 409
Joined: 10/11/2007
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Joe Biden clearly won on experience. Palin did better than I expted her to do. In that case, it was a win for her and her supporters. But overall, come on. A lot of her answers were memorized from her week of debate camp. Most of her responses were not her own personal convictions. Just more of what was expected from the McCain campaign. Joe did the same to some degree, but he did speak on his on experiences concerning foreign policy, especially. I did agree with Palin on the fact that global warming is not totally manmade. The earth goes through large climate cycles of warm and cold. Joe Biden blamed it completely on man.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 10:47:52 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1339
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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As a McCain/Palin supporter, I'll say that as far as the debate goes, Biden did a better job at defining their agenda...
But, that still makes the Obama/Biden agenda, a VERY scary and dangerous thing.
I'll take a bad debater over horrendous policy anyday.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:13:58 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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I think Mrs Palin went well but Mr. Biden was way more excellent..in the present situation of the world I very much see the Democrat candidate long experience in wold affairs and dealings, the need of the times we are in now.
I like Mr.Biden very much. and can embrace him naturaly, without any problems at all...Mr. McCain and him do have long time senate experiences, are mature men and etc but I cannot embrace Mr.McCain at all...hmmm...Mr. Biden have leadership style that I do reckon and even make me smile, he is very fit to be my VP or even a President also.
About Mr Obama...I cannot embrace him also.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:18:20 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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My impression of Biden after I got past all the PolitoSpeak was that he really only said three things:
- I have been around for a long time and so I know a lot
- Bush is bad and John McCain is Bush
- Barak and I have a plan for X, and I don't have time to go into our plan right now
The funny thing is while I watched Biden, and thought about Barak's debate performance, I couldn't help but think that they have the wrong guy running for President.
While Palin didn't sound as wonkish, I thought she was pretty clear, and hit her stride several times. I thought she explained her health care plan much better than Biden explained theirs, and I immediately saw how having such a plan would bebeneficial for my family.
She killed any of the 'she doesn't know anything' script the left has been pushing the last week, though I did get the impression at several points she wanted to run against McCain, since she had to defend several of his moderate votes during his career.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:22:46 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3983
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Both acquitted themselves well. They were composed and showed their clear differences in style. Whether anybody undecided will be swayed ???????????
If you watch Fox news, you may sometimes see Frank Luntz, the guy who does the real-time dials. His crowd for the night (of both major parties) OVERWHELMINGLY gave the debate to Gov. Palin. 4 of them said that her performance had swayed their vote to McCain, 1 said they were now going for Obama.
Unfortunately, the FOX lovefest (I watched some of their post-debate coverage) is unlikely representative of most voters (undecided). I wouldn't trust a FOX focus group any more than I'd trust a CBS one.
Cow, have you ever heard of or watched Frank Luntz? He does a very balanced job with all parties involved. Neither he nor Fox are creating the results, it is straight real-time raw data of people from both parties watching the debate. Luntz then asks them to show hands for things like, "Did X win? Did Y win? Who came in undecided? Who is now voting for X?" etc. You might be enlightened a bit to watch Luntz.
From a statistical standpoint, these post-debate "focus groups" are not put together by experts, but by the TV people. There is also a lot of subtle (not necessarily intentional) manipulation and group dynamics that can happen that we don't see. It's not about Lutz, but the process. Again, I don't put any weight on any of these. I purposefully started with FOX on my post debate channel-surfing and the lovefest was obvious. I was disappointed in what i saw from the talking heads at PBS in their Obama bias.
It seems that righties think Palin won and Lefties think Biden won. Undecideds might go with style. If you like the folksy populist style, Palin won. If you like the detail style, Biden won.
I am in the McCain camp, so I was looking for the positive from Palin and she showed her potential. Palin alone is not enough reason for me to vote the ticket. After a term as VP, she might very well be ready to take the reins. I cringe to think of her having to step up sooner.
A lot of this will be forgotten after the Presidential debates resume.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:26:25 AM
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sylvan
Posts: 122
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:
A lot of her answers were memorized from her week of debate camp.
Yeah, she made a good "show" winking at the camera and all - but her ignorance was obvious. In her defense, she is not old Washington but her reliance on sound bites scares me! You bettcha. She didn't answer direct questions, and just stuck to memorized sound bites and old cliches. Even though she talks alot about energy, you can tell it's more of a sound bite issues with her - as in her correction of Biden which she seemed to think was witty - quote: "The correct phrase is drill baby drill". You can tell she was working very much from a script.
Personally, for President or VP I want someone smarter than myself - with the abiltily to think on their feet and respond DIRECTLY to the many things that are going to come at them in office. I'm sorry, but she looked bad (No, not physically and the winks were cute). But sadly though, voters base their votes on winks (or smiles as someone mentioned) and other posturing, instead of substance. If Palin doesn't grasp the issues (other than as a sound bite), she sure won't be able to resolve them. Throwing out sound bites and old cliches like 'I'm for less government' isn't enough. I'm personally for less government (and not the Bush style of big-government disguised as less-government), but I get the feeling if you ask her to elaborate she'll reply - "just because"....then, digress into a discussion about pipelines in Alaska. I wish there was a Pat Buchanan in the race - I'm tired of the beltway parties and all their sound bites, cliches, etc. Unfortunately, the American people love that stuff.
I thought Biden was Biden. Pretty much what I expected. Overall, as a "debate" it was very poor!!! I don't know why people think it was good?? I guess it's like somebody that eats at McDonalds (or other FAST food) all of the time - they're used too it yet it is TERRIBLE food.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:26:39 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
The funny thing is while I watched Biden, and thought about Barak's debate performance, I couldn't help but think that they have the wrong guy running for President.
Bingo!
I felt that the only candidate fit to be President and lead, among the 4 candidates is Biden!
That is wonderful because I can embrace someone.. I do not follow anyone by "force" or other tactics.. but natural leaders that inspires me to because leadership styles do matter big time and passion and enthusiasm and so many things are in the mix that make leaders of all sorts etc
 I do embrace Mr Binder !
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:30:22 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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My neighbor, who is a 65 yrs old white woman, was a true undecided. She has voted both before.
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
She says she loves Sarah Palin, did'nt think she did bad last night. Just not enough to help whats going on in the world.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:34:17 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
I agree. It looked corny and faked to me. It was like he suddenly thought, "Oh yeah--this is emotional stuff I'm talking about--maybe I should act like I'm sad" and then he took two seconds to act choked up, and then he was all better again like it never happened.
Not to be too cynical, but I swear he looked down at his notes when he was sharing this; reminded me of when Barak forgot the name of the soldier whose bracelet he wore in the last debate.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:38:12 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Yeah, she made a good "show" winking at the camera and all - but her ignorance was obvious. In her defense, she is not old Washington but her reliance on sound bites scares me! You bettcha. She didn't answer direct questions, and just stuck to memorized sound bites and old cliches. Even though she talks alot about energy, you can tell it's more of a sound bite issues with her - as in her correction of Biden which she seemed to think was witty - quote: "The correct phrase is drill baby drill". You can tell she was working very much from a script.
I actually found Palin to be much less scripted than than Biden - evidence of this is that it was extremely obvious he was looking for a space to throw in his "bridge to nowhere" comment, which is in a campaign commercial this morning. He was not only coached, but it is obvious they told him exactly what sound bites they needed for the ad.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:42:16 AM
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sylvan
Posts: 122
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
My neighbor, who is a 65 yrs old white woman, was a true undecided. She has voted both before.
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
She says she loves Sarah Palin, did'nt think she did bad last night. Just not enough to help whats going on in the world.
Yep, the republican party is now a vacuum - as clearly evident in Palin. Sad.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:45:51 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I agree. It looked corny and faked to me. It was like he suddenly thought, "Oh yeah--this is emotional stuff I'm talking about--maybe I should act like I'm sad" and then he took two seconds to act choked up, and then he was all better again like it never happened.
Not to be too cynical, but I swear he looked down at his notes when he was sharing this; reminded me of when Barak forgot the name of the soldier whose bracelet he wore in the last debate.
I saw very different..maybe because I am a woman? I loved when he saidis not only because he is a man he does not know for real what to sit kitchen table, raise kids as single parent etc..Many males do know indeed and have to be reckon as women are in the same situation!
He is a guy and individual dealing with deep emotions that the subject of losing his wife and daughter brings inside the pain, I understand mourning and deep loos of loving ones..he is mature man, he is what he is, he does not need to play games partircular in such sensiive issue. Plus I do like Irish people warm heart and ways for family..he does come from Irish family and he is down to earth and like me, passionate and may mess up sometimes by being just himself. I understand all of that.
LOL..I'm defending him as I do like him..that is funny and natural...  But I'm defending males also and the way people deal with emotions different and etc.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:49:15 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
I saw very different..maybe because I am a woman? I loved when he saidis not only because he is a man he does not know for real what to sit kitchen table, raise kids as single parent etc..Many males do know indeed and have to be reckon as women are in the same situation!
He is a guy and individual dealing with deep emotions that the subject of losing his wife and daughter brings inside the pain, I understand mourning and deep loos of loving ones..he is mature man, he is what he is, he does not need to play games partircular in such sensiive issue. Plus I do like Irish people warm heart and ways for family..he does come from Irish family and he is down to earth and like me, passionate and may mess up sometimes by being just himself. I understand all of that.
LOL..I'm defending him as I do like him..that is funny and natural... But I'm defending males also and the way people deal with emotions different and etc.
In all due respect, when he is on the campaign trail, Biden tears up everytime he mentions this. Now it was a very tragic event; I had a tragic event occur in my life some 30+ years ago, so I can relate - but I don't tear up on cue several times a week.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:50:24 AM
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LabGuy
Posts: 3281
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: NW Pennsylvania
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
Forgive me, but that makes absolutely zero sense considering Senator Obama voted for the bailout also.
-Robb
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:52:08 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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The other thing that bothered me about Biden, is that as a supposed 'experienced' leader he either lied through his teeth or had no clue on several issues - how much we have spent on Afganistan, what Barak and McCain have and haven't said and voted on, and what we did in Lebanon.
And would someone please tell me what planet a Bosniac is from?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:52:37 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4467
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
If she really is a true conservative, there is no way she could vote for Obama/Biden.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:53:59 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1285
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: online
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One thing I learned from Joe Biden is that using cosmetic tape is probably a mistake unless the crazy eyebrow/mad scientist look is something you're going for.
The amount of leftist bellyaching online today seems to back up the fact that Governor Palin did a fine job last night.
I thought he lied more than he needed to, but not enough to make it outright comical. And dang it, I was looking forward to that.
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:56:06 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
If she really is a true conservative, there is no way she could vote for Obama/Biden.
Unless I missed something, Obama supports & voted for the bailout too.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:57:25 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 280
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
My neighbor, who is a 65 yrs old white woman, was a true undecided. She has voted both before.
She put up an Obama/Biden sign this am. I asked her why, she said she is a true conservative, and this bailout is not fiscally conservative and with John voting for it, it turned her off.
She says she loves Sarah Palin, did'nt think she did bad last night. Just not enough to help whats going on in the world.
Even though McCain is not conservative, I would have to question anyone who calls themself a true conservative and votes for Obama/Biden. The more conservative ticket is clearly McCain/Palin even though it leaves a lot to be desired. Also, Obama and Biden voted for the bailout, so her support for them makes little sense given her explanation.
I thought the debate was a tie. I don't think many independents would be swayed by either candidate. The candidates most likely reassured their base. It was interesting to hear Biden answer one question saying that Iran wasn't anywhere near having a nuke, while he answered the next question saying they were very close to having one. Also, he created a new word, "bosiniacs?" Palin repeated herself too often and her grammer could use some work.
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RE: Vice President Debate - 10/3/2008 11:57:50 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Forgive me, but that makes absolutely zero sense considering Senator Obama voted for the bailout also.
-Robb
Hey, just the messenger. That's what she said. I think people wanted John to be different like he said he would.
We all knew Bo was gonna do it.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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