quote:

How could day, night, morning and evening exists without the sun? How did plants survive in absolute zero?

quote:

Please spare me the vaguely worded … Job:26.7 implying an earth floating in space.

quote:

wildest speculation i.e. that behemouths must be dinosaurs

quote:

Would it be an uninformed assumption that Einstein was unaware of string theory or that Newton was unaware of relativity theory?

If God wrote the Bible, why does it not contain a single piece of plainly stated scientific or geographic information that was not know to the scholars of the time. Please spare me the vaguely worded passages that only that can only be interpreted as scientific geological evidence through the wildest speculation i.e. that behemouths must be dinosaurs or Job:26.7 implying an earth floating in space.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Would it be an uninformed assumption that Einstein was unaware of string theory or that Newton was unaware of relativity theory?

If God wrote the Bible, why does it not contain a single piece of plainly stated scientific or geographic information that was not know to the scholars of the time. Please spare me the vaguely worded passages that only that can only be interpreted as scientific geological evidence through the wildest speculation i.e. that behemouths must be dinosaurs or Job:26.7 implying an earth floating in space.

I think before we answer that, it would be interesting to know what, "scientific or geographic information" was known at that time; they certainly didn't know that universe had an origin, and that previous to that origin nothing material existed. They didn't know light began to exist. They didn't know the earth began to exist. They didn't know life began to exist, and that higher animals followed the more simple sort, culminating in the existence of humans.

quote:

Just one such accurate reference and the entire world would be Christian.

quote:

Jhud, sounds like a evolutionary account you're describing there...?

quote:

Interestingly, as far as philosophical dilemnas are concerned, and one that is related to this is, if there is a God who is the omni-God, how then can discuss "laws" to be true, or reliable, if at any point that law can simply be broken?

quote:

The question of origins have been pondered by great thinkers for thousands of years, and every major, and most minor, religions has origin legends, all about as reasonable and likely Genesis.

quote:

The Bible makes no reference to any continent outside of Eurasia or Africa or any astronomical body not seen with the naked eye. It makes no reference to basic nature of the sun, moon, or stars. It make no reference to any scientific discovery made after the Bible was written.

Just one such accurate reference and the entire world would be Christian.

quote:

No, evolutionary accounts don't involve an intelligence.

quote:

You mean laws of nature? If so, two better questions might be, what in the universe requires that such laws can't be broken

quote:

why do we have the capacity to understand that they exist to begin with?

quote:

Really, so you think the creation myth of the Ainu, who believed that the world sits in an ocean on the back of a giant trout which creates tides by sucking in the ocean and spitting it out again is just as reasonable as the fact that an eternal God created a temporal universe? I mean the father of physics, Isaac Newton believed the universe was a product of the God of the Bible; were his beliefs as unlikely as those of the Ainu?

quote:

Sorry I don't follow. I've never heard of an evolution account that didn't involve intelligence. Evolution discusses the emergance of increasing complexity and intelligence. If you're speaking about telelogical accounts of evolutionary processes, in which case God, aka a maximal or greater intelligent agent, is necessary for evolution to occur then I still think we're talking about evolution. Frankly, I've never understood the disparity between theology and evolution; the "materialist" evolutionist is merely adding another layer of interpretation to the science just as the theological evolutionist (ID I supose?) adds his. Evolution accounts just are: whether God is part of that or not is a more philosophical/theological concern Just curious: have you ever heard of John Haught?

quote:

If we posit a omni-God then nothing. There is no justifiable reason to think "laws" are even there(absolutely), let alone that they can't be broken. I understand this problem while believing in God and believing that laws cannot be broken. Think outside of the box. If the laws are a product of God or of his creation, what stops God from completely reversing the laws any or all the time? And if that is the case how is that a "law" in the strict sense more than merely being a phenomenom that's been repeated.

quote:

I'm not sure what to say to this or what you're driving at other than I suspect its a cosmological argument for the existance of God perhaps? In which case no need to preach to the choir...

quote:

In the beginning God created the heavens which would include the sun and the moon. All that's said about the 4th day is that the greater and lessor light were made or perhaps first seen not necessarily that the sun and moon were first created on the 4th day.

quote:

The Bible makes no reference to any continent outside of Eurasia or Africa or any astronomical body not seen with the naked eye. It makes no reference to basic nature of the sun, moon, or stars. It make no reference to any scientific discovery made after the Bible was written.

quote:

Sorry I don't follow. I've never heard of an evolution account that didn't involve intelligence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Would it be an uninformed assumption that Einstein was unaware of string theory or that Newton was unaware of relativity theory?

If God wrote the Bible, why does it not contain a single piece of plainly stated scientific or geographic information that was not know to the scholars of the time. Please spare me the vaguely worded passages that only that can only be interpreted as scientific geological evidence through the wildest speculation i.e. that behemouths must be dinosaurs or Job:26.7 implying an earth floating in space.

I think before we answer that, it would be interesting to know what, "scientific or geographic information" was known at that time; they certainly didn't know that universe had an origin, and that previous to that origin nothing material existed. They didn't know light began to exist. They didn't know the earth began to exist. They didn't know life began to exist, and that higher animals followed the more simple sort, culminating in the existence of humans.

quote:

And some of you claim that I am ignorant of neo-Darwinian evolutionary theory?! Please, Nothingman, tell us how the unguided, random forces of nature called mutation and selection possess intelligence? I'm baffled at your description of "evolution account".

quote:

Its GOD. He does what He wants. Do not rely on man's understanding of things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL:tk

quote:

That's how I read Genesis.

That much you have correct. The rest of your post is drivel.

quote:

I don't think the authors of Genesis understood the daylight was caused by the sun.

The first three words of that statement identifies your problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Really, so you think the creation myth of the Ainu, who believed that the world sits in an ocean on the back of a giant trout which creates tides by sucking in the ocean and spitting it out again is just as reasonable as the fact that an eternal God created a temporal universe? I mean the father of physics, Isaac Newton believed the universe was a product of the God of the Bible; were his beliefs as unlikely as those of the Ainu?

quote:



Actually, the fact that the universe was finite in duration wasn't determined scientifically until the 20th century.

quote:

I would be surprised if the authors of the Bible didn't understand what many primitive people did:

quote:

Not a particularly impressive feat considering they had a 50/50 chance of being right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud


Even the casual observer (and a number of studied ones, like Tolien and Lewis) can see the diference from these elemental mythologies and the transcendent Genesis account.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaseyTom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud


Even the casual observer (and a number of studied ones, like Tolien and Lewis) can see the diference from these elemental mythologies and the transcendent Genesis account.

You sure about that?

So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Apparently the authors of Genesis2 never read Genesis1.

or this:

Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die

Snakes talk?

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.

Snakes eat dust?

or this:
When Methu'selah had lived a hundred and eighty-seven years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 Methu'selah lived after the birth of Lamech seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methu'selah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 When Lamech had lived a hundred and eighty-two years, he became the father of a son, 29 and called his name Noah, saying, "Out of the ground which the LORD has cursed this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands." 30 Lamech lived after the birth of Noah five hundred and ninety-five years, and had other sons and daughters. 31 Thus all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 After Noah was five hundred years old, Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

or this:

And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive. 21 Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them

quote:


1. "Inerrancy" "Infallibility":

Range of views:

Most Faith Community Network staff, monitors and users believe that the Bible is "inerrant" and "infallible," and happily use those two words to describe their position. However, within Christian orthodoxy, there is a wide range of thinking on precisely how belief that the Bible is absolutely true and totally authoritative is articulated and how to resolve apparent contradictions in the Bible. Not everyone who prefers to describe their position with words other that "inerrant" and "infallible" means to challenge the fundamental truthfulness and authority of the Bible.

Unacceptable:

Forceful and sustained argument that, for example, the Bible does teach certain things to be true but that it is wrong when it does so, that the Bible is riddled with contradictions and is historically unreliable, or that the Bible is a purely human document.

quote:

You sure about that?

So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Apparently the authors of Genesis2 never read Genesis1.

or this:

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.

Snakes eat dust?

or this:
When Methu'selah had lived a hundred and eighty-seven years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 Methu'selah lived after the birth of Lamech seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methu'selah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 When Lamech had lived a hundred and eighty-two years, he became the father of a son, 29 and called his name Noah, saying, "Out of the ground which the LORD has cursed this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands." 30 Lamech lived after the birth of Noah five hundred and ninety-five years, and had other sons and daughters. 31 Thus all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 After Noah was five hundred years old, Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

or this:

And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive. 21 Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them