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Just because a person weans early doesn't mean that pregnancy will happen.

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I don't care what they decide as a family

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they are not asking the government to support them.

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Weirdness is more normal than some people might think.

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But, as was said, we don't KNOW if that's true about Michelle or not, or if it's just an internet rumor..

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Most everyone I know who has seen them thinks of them as bizarre and weird--not something to be emulated.

I'm not sure how their faith will play out on the small screen when people already tend to think they're kind of "out there."

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ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

He wasn't a state rep for all of their marriage and parenting years.

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About 19 years ago, I went to a bank to inquire about borrowing a large sum of money to expand my business. A few days later, a successful businessman invited the men from our church out to his house every Friday morning for breakfast and to watch the " Financial Freedom Seminar" by Jim Sammons. I agreed to attend, as well as 50 other men. After just seeing the first session, the truths from God's Word being taught through Mr. Sammons began to convict me of my need to "owe no man anything but love." I decided right then to postpone the loan. I continued to attend the seminar, and after 20 weeks (to my amazement), God totally changed my view of not only His purposes for finances, but also how we are to be wise stewards of everything God entrusts to us. Later that year, this man had the seminar at our church and Michelle & I were able to attend the seminar together. After we both heard the testimonies of God's methods for finances, Michelle & I purposed to become debt-free. As we have chosen to trust Him, I have seen God provide for our family in ways that are supernatural. I encourage every family to watch this seminar, the testimonies Jim Sammons shares are so encouraging that our family enjoys watching it together. He challenges you to give every area of your life to God.

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ORIGINAL: macokjc

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I don't see how the Duggar's can be a "good testimony"....since much of what they "believe", regarding what is "biblical and scriptural" (which, in turn, dictates how they operate their lives and family), are based on many "ideals" and "principles" that are filled with false teachings......(referring to Bill Gothard & ATI).......

I don't get this....Bill Gothard's basic tenets of faith are the same ones you might find in any Christian church across the country. Their interpretation of Scripture is up to individual's personal liberty and judgment, but it is not false teachings.

What ideals that the Duggards have are you exactly against? They are self-sufficient, believe in courtship, believe in modesty, believe in financial stewardship, believe that the husband is the head of the home and answers to God, they believe children are a gift from God. Up to this point, with their TV specials and their articles, everything that they have done has pointed towards their belief in Christ.

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ORIGINAL: StephK

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ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

He wasn't a state rep for all of their marriage and parenting years.

He was a state representative from 1999 - 2003. He ran ten years or so years ago for statewide public office. According to their website Jim Bob went through the Financial Freedom Seminar 19 years ago right after he went to get a large loan to expand his business. According to the website he was convicted about going into debt and instead started living debt free. If you don't have any debt it does not require as much to live on. Considering what is going on with our economy right now God may just use them to teach a lot of people some common sense Biblical financial principles.

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About 19 years ago, I went to a bank to inquire about borrowing a large sum of money to expand my business. A few days later, a successful businessman invited the men from our church out to his house every Friday morning for breakfast and to watch the " Financial Freedom Seminar" by Jim Sammons. I agreed to attend, as well as 50 other men. After just seeing the first session, the truths from God's Word being taught through Mr. Sammons began to convict me of my need to "owe no man anything but love." I decided right then to postpone the loan. I continued to attend the seminar, and after 20 weeks (to my amazement), God totally changed my view of not only His purposes for finances, but also how we are to be wise stewards of everything God entrusts to us. Later that year, this man had the seminar at our church and Michelle & I were able to attend the seminar together. After we both heard the testimonies of God's methods for finances, Michelle & I purposed to become debt-free. As we have chosen to trust Him, I have seen God provide for our family in ways that are supernatural. I encourage every family to watch this seminar, the testimonies Jim Sammons shares are so encouraging that our family enjoys watching it together. He challenges you to give every area of your life to God.

http://www.duggarfamily.com/financialfreedom.html

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ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Then there are the areas of extreme weirdness, such as Gothard's rant against Cabbage Patch dolls. The dolls were supposedly the cause of strange and destructive behavior among children who had "adopted" them, and needed to be destroyed.

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Both parents must attend the Basic and Advanced Seminars as a prerequisite for enrollment in ATI. The Advanced Seminar can be taken during the first year of enrolling in ATI.

All children living at home must be enrolled in the program.

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ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

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Both parents must attend the Basic and Advanced Seminars as a prerequisite for enrollment in ATI. The Advanced Seminar can be taken during the first year of enrolling in ATI.

All children living at home must be enrolled in the program.

Does that mean, then, that the boys and the girls are getting the same education?

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Ohhhhh boy, welll here I'm going to try and tackle this one.

First, there are things that Bill Gothard/ATI families are expected to follow (which are considered biblical) that are NOT essentials of the faith. And when non-essentials are considered as essentials to be in good standing in the body of Christ, that is a big problem. It causes disunity in the body of Christ, and promotes exclusivity and pride. Some examples: dresses only for women, homeschooling, using ATI for homeschooling, adult children living at home till married. Note that I am not referring to matters of individual conviction, but when a group (and the individuals in that group) believes that non-essentials are in fact essentials.

Next, let me bring up a few specifics as far as doctrine.

Bill Gothard has taught that divorce is unacceptable for any reason. Quote from A STUDY IN EVOLVING FADISM by G. Richard Fisher. All of Gothard’s early materials make plain that he does not believe a divorce can take place for any reason whatsoever. He avoids the exception clause of Matthew 19:9 by saying Jesus is only speaking of Jewish betrothal. However, the Greek word mnesteuo (betrothal) is never mentioned in the chapter or context, only marriage.

Bill Gothard is big into the idea of generational curses. He believes that adopted children are affected by the sins of their natural parents (not simply physical consequences, as in Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, but also inheriting spiritual issues). Adoptive parents are told to research the specific sins of the natural parents and perform what is basically a prayer ritual "confessing" those sins and rebuking Satan for those specific sins. (original source: Bill Gothard, Ten Reasons Why Adopted Children Tend to Have More Conflicts; Oak Brook, Ill., Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts, 1982; pp. 1-2. 11).

Then there are the areas of extreme weirdness, such as Gothard's rant against Cabbage Patch dolls. The dolls were supposedly the cause of strange and destructive behavior among children who had "adopted" them, and needed to be destroyed. And another example, applying Mosaic ritual regarding abstaining from marital intimacy during certain times of a woman's cycle. And Gothard's rant against any contemporary music, including contemporary Christian music of all styles (original source: two booklets by Gothard: Notice of Complaint Against The Unrecognized Enemy of The Church, and Contemporary Christian Music: Ten Reasons Why the Rock Beat is Evil In Any Form.).

And that's just a few of the highlights.

Here's what I wrote on another thread a few months ago about the ATI application itself.

One thing regarding Gothard and "picking and choosing." When a family signs up for ATI (the homeschooling program), they agree to certain rules.

While some of the more specific and controversial aspects of Gothard's teachings are more difficult to dig up, the information brochure and application for ATI are easily found on ATI's web site, and anyone can find out if the information I have related here is accurate.

Both parents must attend the Basic and Advanced Seminars as a prerequisite for enrollment in ATI. The Advanced Seminar can be taken during the first year of enrolling in ATI.

All children living at home must be enrolled in the program.

You are not allowed to have unrelated people living in your house (this is described as a "firm rule").

You are expected to limit your family's TV viewing to 5 hours a week, and it is "strongly recommended" that you remove all televisions from your home.

While it is not explicitly stated that all modern music must be removed from the home, it is claimed that rock music (including Christian rock) "causes the listener to either react or
come under the domination of the music," and further guidance on identifying and removing rock music from the home is offered through an additional booklet.

Parents will have to write up an explanation of any adopted children in the family, any past criminal offenses, any travel or outside-of-work time commitments of the father, any divorces in the past, any home based business that the wife is involved in, etc. Also, your pastor's name and phone number are required as a reference.

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Ohhhhh boy, welll here I'm going to try and tackle this one.

First, there are things that Bill Gothard/ATI families are expected to follow (which are considered biblical) that are NOT essentials of the faith.

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And that's just a few of the highlights.

Here's what I wrote on another thread a few months ago about the ATI application itself.

One thing regarding Gothard and "picking and choosing." When a family signs up for ATI (the homeschooling program), they agree to certain rules.

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As far as the homeschool thing goes....many organizations that you sign up w/ have certain rules and regulations. One famous one is the HSLD. If you don't agree to follow them, then don't sign up.
HSLDA is a legal team though....if you or they don't see eye to eye on some legal matter then that is a very good reason to not be a client of theirs. Somehow I don't think I would put it into the same scope though of the ATI/Gothard's.

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ORIGINAL: macokjc

But once again - these are all interpretations of the Scripture - not false teachings. The divorce quote - I have heard many godly pastors preach who believe the same thing. Adoptive children - the Bible clearly states the sins of the father are passed down to the children to the 3rd or 4th generation. Once again, it is interpretative. The cabbage patch thing, I remember rumors about those when I was little, but don't see anybody quoting scripture and verse. It's a little like the rumor that the teletubbies promote gay agenda. And, there have been several studies done on the physiological and psychological effects of the rock beat. Once again - their beliefs.

As far as the homeschool thing goes....many organizations that you sign up w/ have certain rules and regulations. One famous one is the HSLD. If you don't agree to follow them, then don't sign up.

Just because somebody does not follow your lines of belief do not mean that they are weird, or even spreading false witness. I think it is a very grave danger to accuse somebody of false witness. Are they different, yes. Do I live like them? No. But I respect them for their beliefs.