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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 11:22:42 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
YET they are the better testimony? As my three-year old would say, "You've got to be kidding me"
Uh, I don't recall anyone in this thread saying they were a better testimony...
Below are all the quotes regarding Jon and Kate in this thread (copied and pasted)...
"I watch Jon and Kate plus 8 and one of the things that Kate has said is she wants people to see how things really are, the good and bad moments." -Kohls
"OTHO, I think other families like Jon&Kate and the Little People folks, they don't mind some of their faults being portrayed."-State of Grace
"I just think of the few times I've seen the other big family reality show:
The Duggars
this is your family with organization
Jon, Kate + 8
this is your family without organization
it was funnier before I actually wrote it down"-Doinkdom
"I was thinking of the Jon & Kate + 8. The Duggars didn't have all their kids at once though. That helps in the organization department. The older kids can help with the little ones."-StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
"I just think of the few times I've seen the other big family reality show:
The Duggars
this is your family with organization
Jon, Kate + 8
this is your family without organization
it was funnier before I actually wrote it down
Actually, I laughed out loud when I saw that if that makes you feel any better...Kate would be a lot more organized if she would chill a little...she tried having a housekeeper, but let her go because she didn't do things just Kate's way, and when the kids were carving pumpkins she was practically cleaning up before they were done..she needs to accept help (even if imperfect) and also let Jon be his own person..
Keep in mind too, the Duggars made a purposeful decision to chuck birth control, and so were kind of prepared for the possibility of a huge family, and able to plan/develop ways of doing things accordingly. Jon and Kate, OTOH, after the twins, only wanted one more baby, and were caught by surprise with the septuplets. "-myself in response to doinkdom
quote:
.it was a tasteless joke.
"Oh, I don't think it was...I just thought it was humorous...after all both families ALLOWED themselves to be public, so both families opened themselves up for comment...I wasn't trying to make you feel bad AT ALL..I was just kind of laying the two shows side by side..
Goodness, you're not the first one to compare the two..there are debates all over the internet about which show people like better..some like Jon and Kate better because they say they are more "real," others like the Duggars better saying they are more "nice." It's all a matter of opinion."-me in response to doinkdom after she thought she made a tasteless joke.
RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/23/2008 4:46:12 PM
doinkdom
Super Member
"Posts: 4023
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online well, I think they're all a special form of crazy to let the public into their personal lives.
Yikes! "-Doinkdom
"ROFLOL!!!!! (I thought it was pretty funny!!!)"-peculiar lady in response to doinkdom's organization comment..
"I do watch a lot of Jon and Kate"-Jodavi
Oh, and I'm sick of copying and pasting..but to quote myself..I said that it would be hilarious to see a Michelle Duggar/Kate Gosselin episode of wife swap.
If anything, the statements about Jon and Kate ranged from generic to rather snarky...not one person said they would be a better testimony.
Also, I never said the Duggars "should" be more real "like Jon and Kate,"I said some PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET THINK the Duggars are more nice, and some PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET THINK Jon and Kate are more real..hence the continual debate about which show is better.
And, actually, I agree with your objections about Jon and Kate (that is, IF all the negative stuff is actually true)...just tryin' to say I didn't think anyone in this thread was saying Jon and Kate were anything great..even though that seemed to be the impression you got.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/25/2008 12:01:45 PM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 11:48:06 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4406
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
I can't get over the fact that people are accusing them of not being a good Christian testimony because they are weird and different and that they should be more "real" like Jon and Kate. Jon and Kate have been caught in several lies, have begged the community, state, and church for handouts, have complained when those handouts have not been good enough, told the state that they were responsible for helping w/ the tups because the state allowed them to have fertility treatments, constantly belittle each other, have no respect of their children, are estranged from almost all of their family members..... YET they are the better testimony? As my three-year old would say, "You've got to be kidding me"
I think you've responded to the wrong thread. No one said anything like that.
And I think my own posts have been repeatedly mis-read. What I said was:
I have a number of friends who are not Christian that for whatever reason have watched some of the Discovery Channel specials on the Duggars. These not-Christian people think the Duggars are bizarre for a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with faith. I'm pretty sure that they are not the only not-Christian viewers to think that, seeing as how I am a Christian and I find their family to be quite odd. And again, none of that has anything to do with faith.
This leads me to wonder how the perception will be changed if their faith plays a large role in this show. Will they look less weird to non-Christians? More weird? For those like me, who spend time defending our faith to non-Christians, these are important questions because it helps us be prepared to answer their questions and/or accusations. For the record, "Jesus Camp" was quite damaging to Christians in a lot of ways. Putting Christians on the big and small screens backfires more often than not.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 11:59:17 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Just because someone "puts themselves out there" doesn't mean it's not mean to call them freaks, etc. I don't know if you necessarily have said anything mean, but I've read a lot of remarks that from a lot of people that collectively seem very mean-spirited. I don't understand the animosity I've seen people exhibit towards that family.
*****
(Those are stars!) 
Next Duggar thread, maybe I'll post a catch-all of all the complaints and accusations against them, and then we can just get that over it.
Too many kids
arrogant and "holier than thou"
bad hair
stupid clothes
robotic kids
their children work (God help them, poor dears!)
the girls are oppressed and the boys are favored and catered to
What else? I'm sure I've missed some. 
I don't think it's really the particulars that get to people, it's the fact that they appear to go to extremes, I'm not saying they do, I'm saying they appear to....I will get into more detail later, I can't right now as I am typing one handed at the moment...the other hand is feeding my sister....my own personal buddy system, eh?
Ok, deep breath...I am now going to attempt to speak where I didn't dare to tread last night...
1."Too many kids"
I can't say they have "too many kids," but face it, they do have more kids than the average bears in this day and age, so it's not surprising people will comment. I don't hold their "no birth control whatsoever," position (I'm not against barrier methods)..however after getting to know some people on these forums that hold that belief, I am starting to understand it somewhat more...however, it has been said that Michelle purposely weans at six months on purpose in order to get pregnant again sooner..Now when someone weans, or even if they don't nurse at all, is frankly their business..but if she really is weaning early FOR THAT PURPOSE (and we don't know for sure if that is true or not), then that's not really letting God plan your family...it's rushing it on your own...
"2.arrogant and holier than thou"
-I'll get back to that later.
"3.bad hair"
I don't object to the older girls having long hair, if that's the way each of them themselves want it, but it seems to be dictated that they HAVE to HAVE it that way..and that I don't agree with..after a certain age, I think girls should be given some freedom regarding their hair..and some people do look better with shorter hair..I usually wear mine shorter (it's long in the avatar, because for a year I was growing it out for locks of love, but it turned out to be a waste because they didn't want highlighted hair). I'd also like to see some variety..it's always clipped up..can't they ever do a french braid or a pony tail or something?
4. "stupid clothes"
I don't necessarily think their clothes are "stupid." And, I actually admire them for being modest, and also not wearing shorts..frankly, after about age 9, shorts are not that attractive on most of us..I don't wear shorts either.....except that I wear swim shorts with my swimsuit..but I do think they carry things to an extreme...if they want to wear dresses MOST of the time, that's their prerogative, but it did bug me when they wore dresses for horseback riding..I thought that was actually more immodest, because the dresses hiked up..and then of course one caught a glimpse of the old timey knee length pantaloons that the girls are apparently required to wear....I just really think there are certain activities where it is more modest to wear pants, and pants should be allowed for those activities.
4."Robotic kids"--I don't know that they are robotic, but they do seem rather regimented..for instance, I like that they all play insturments..but I don't like that they ALL play piano and violin..I think each child should have been able to pick their own instrument...and they seem to lack "sparkle," almost like they're fearful of stepping out of line...Maggie, you weren't able to see the you tube link, but on the video the Romanian/Canadian family with 18 kids, the kids were just so full of life, and the one girl interviewed was just so happy and bubbly..the Duggars don't really seem that way...you can't get you tube, but on one of the interview clips, Jinger looks like she's practically shooting eye daggers at the camera.
5."their children work"
I don't object to children working...but it appears-noticed I didn't say definitely ARE, I just said appears..it appears that they are overworked, and it appears that the girls do 10x more than the boys, which I don't agree with at all.
Which brings me to the buddy system..
Ok, if the buddy system was merely for practical purposes, I would have no objection to it..i.e., suppose they are going on an outing..it make sense to have all the older ones buckle the little ones in, rather than have the parents buckle umpteen car seats...but the Duggar parents seemed to have turned over the responsibilty of the litle ones ENTIRE WELL BEING to the older kids..and I don't agree with that at all...I mean they get them up, brush their hair, brush their teeth, get them dressed, do their naptimes, do their baths, get them ready for bed, teach them their schoolwork...with all that there is just about nothing left for Michelle to do..and I think to never get mothered by your own mother is very sad..I read on a blog of a former ATI member who said she knew the Duggars (and it seemed legitimate not fake), that even if the younger kids fell down and got hurt, the older kids got in trouble. I also think with the older girls doing all that buddying, and doing all the cooking, dishes, and laundry, their schoolwork must be suffering..
6."girls are oppressed, and the boys are favored and catered to"
On that one, we can't really know unless we are in the home, so I'll skip that one...
I have mixed feelings about many things about the Duggars..
For example..
I am very pro home schooling, but I am very against Bill Gothard's curriculum (and I did nanny for a family that used it and was into Bill Gothard, so I know of what I speak)...and I think it IS lacking academically. I think there is evidence of that on Josh and Anna's website. Frankly, when I saw some of the grammar on it, I was embarrassed for him and for home schoolers as a whole. And the Gothard system (with or without the home school curriculum) IS legalistic..I remember that family I nannied for coming home from a Gothard seminar with about 6 volumes of (VERY EXPENSIVE) books of rules on how to live one's life. I say, no thanks, I have the Bible and my church to tell me how to live my life.
I admire their conviction to be debt free, however, I DO think that a house payment is the one legitimate debt to have. So, I kind of get annoyed when they make a virtue of the fact they "lived in the 3 bedroom rental for so long," because they didn't have to...and I think it is almost unkind to make your kids be that crowded...I mean Jim Bob is IN the real estate business..so I would think he could have found a good deal, and I would think he would also know that owning a home is a good investment..not like a credit card debt. If they had bought early on, they could have fixed up a house nicely, and then sold and bought a couple of times, and have lived in a nicer house sooner than now.
Finally, regarding the Duggars...I don't object to them claiming that children are a blessing from the Lord...they definitely are..but God also CLEARLY tells us to count the cost of our decisions.....so I really believe that when they made the decision to have a large family and home school, they should have also right at that moment sat down and figured out how they would budget in for household help..no woman can be supermom, and they should have realized that before Michelle ever had that breakdown in the laundry room..and considering he's a real estate investor and all, I would think they could afford it.
I do also wonder, with JimBob having sold cars and properties, if he has helped others go into debt, even though he talks against it himself.
As far as the arrogant and holier than thou comment, I don't think they are that..but they need to be more open about struggles, and more willing to learn from others in order not to appear that way...I mean they SEEM all about "Everybody learn from us," rather than like people who are learning from others (of course the family I nannied for was that way too..maybe it's Gothard thing).
FWIW, I HAVE actually defended the Duggars for some things on other websites....
Some on other websites said the Duggars must not enjoy marital intimacy..
I said, um I kinda think they do.
They also said they were just doing the deed for procreation and no other reason.
I said I didn't think that was true at all...I think they also do it for the bonding of their relationship and the pleasure..just like any married couple..
They said Duggars and other christians believed sex was bad..
I said, no, they (and us christians)..don't think it's "bad," it just that the Duggars (and us christians) think it belongs only in marriage.
Then they said that regarding Josh and Anna, no one's probably explained anything..
I said, yeah, I'm sure the parents have..
Then they said Josh and Anna probably had no clue about their honeymoon..and no idea what would happen..
I said I am sure they are quite well aware of what will happen and look forward to their honeymoon very much.
I said that we christians look forward to our wedding night..
Then one person came on and said, "Well, I hope Anna isn't too disappointed then."
I got out of the discussion after that..I was sick of arguing...
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/25/2008 2:47:48 PM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 12:26:34 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1425
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
I can't get over the fact that people are accusing them of not being a good Christian testimony because they are weird and different and that they should be more "real" like Jon and Kate. Jon and Kate have been caught in several lies, have begged the community, state, and church for handouts, have complained when those handouts have not been good enough, told the state that they were responsible for helping w/ the tups because the state allowed them to have fertility treatments, constantly belittle each other, have no respect of their children, are estranged from almost all of their family members..... YET they are the better testimony? As my three-year old would say, "You've got to be kidding me"
I don't think the Dugger show will last. I don't think they will compromise their beliefs to make a show more exciting, and without that, I just don't think they will have the ratings.
I don't see how the Duggar's can be a "good testimony"....since much of what they "believe", regarding what is "biblical and scriptural" (which, in turn, dictates how they operate their lives and family), are based on many "ideals" and "principles" that are filled with false teachings......(referring to Bill Gothard & ATI).......
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:06:20 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 291
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
I don't see how the Duggar's can be a "good testimony"....since much of what they "believe", regarding what is "biblical and scriptural" (which, in turn, dictates how they operate their lives and family), are based on many "ideals" and "principles" that are filled with false teachings......(referring to Bill Gothard & ATI).......
I don't get this....Bill Gothard's basic tenets of faith are the same ones you might find in any Christian church across the country. Their interpretation of Scripture is up to individual's personal liberty and judgment, but it is not false teachings.
What ideals that the Duggards have are you exactly against? They are self-sufficient, believe in courtship, believe in modesty, believe in financial stewardship, believe that the husband is the head of the home and answers to God, they believe children are a gift from God. Up to this point, with their TV specials and their articles, everything that they have done has pointed towards their belief in Christ.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:22:22 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3949
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
5."their children work"
I don't object to children working...but it appears-noticed I didn't say definitely ARE, I just said appears..it appears that they are overworked, and it appears that the girls do 10x more than the boys, which I don't agree with at all.
Which brings be to the buddy system..
Ok, if the buddy system was merely for practical purposes, I would have no objection to it..i.e., suppose they are going on an outing..it make sense to have all the older ones buckle the little ones in, rather than have the parents buckle umpteen car seats...but the Duggar parents seemed to have turned over the responsibilty of the litle ones ENTIRE WELL BEING..and I don't agree with that at all...I mean they get them up, brush their hair, brush their teeth, do their naptimes, do their baths, get them ready for bed, teach them their schoolwork...with all that there is just about nothing left for Michelle to do..and I think to never get mothered by your own mother is very sad..I read on a blog of a former ATI member who said she knew the Duggars (and it seemed legitimate not fake), that even if the younger kids fell down and got hurt, the older kids got in trouble. I also think with the older girls doing all that buddying, and doing all the cooking, dishes, and laundry, their schoolwork must be suffering..
I agree with you a lot on these points. The girls do appear to be doing much more work, because the boys have to prepare to "support their family" while the girls must prepare to be a "keeper at home". I want to give my daughter more options then that.
And with the heavy amount of parenting that the older girls do, it does make it far, far easier for the parents to keep on having kids, because after six months, the brute load of parenting work is taken over by the older children.
I'm all for giving kids responsibility and work according to their age and ability, but when the only reason you can have so many children is because someone else is doing the lion's share of the parenting load....
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:25:15 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
Some people do believe that a woman should have long hair.
Right, but by the age of their older girls, I think that should be something they could each decide they are convicted of or not...even shoulder length hair is quite femininely long...yes, I know they are under their parents' roof, but I still think there is a certain age at which the kids can reasonably make SOME of their own decisions.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/25/2008 1:46:48 PM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:25:37 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4321
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Maybe that's just because I have friends that are a lot weirder than the Duggars.
NO!  j/k
Maybe your friends could get their own show, too. 
_____________________________
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:26:41 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
it has been said that Michelle purposely weans at six months on purpose in order to get pregnant again sooner..
Has anybody ever proved this?
No, that's why I was careful to say..IF it's true..
I guess I could email and ask, just like I did about the taxes.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:28:23 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5783
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I hope you do. I hear it said so often on this forum, but like Lisa, I have never seen a source.
_____________________________
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:32:35 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
5."their children work"
I don't object to children working...but it appears-noticed I didn't say definitely ARE, I just said appears..it appears that they are overworked, and it appears that the girls do 10x more than the boys, which I don't agree with at all.
Which brings be to the buddy system..
Ok, if the buddy system was merely for practical purposes, I would have no objection to it..i.e., suppose they are going on an outing..it make sense to have all the older ones buckle the little ones in, rather than have the parents buckle umpteen car seats...but the Duggar parents seemed to have turned over the responsibilty of the litle ones ENTIRE WELL BEING..and I don't agree with that at all...I mean they get them up, brush their hair, brush their teeth, do their naptimes, do their baths, get them ready for bed, teach them their schoolwork...with all that there is just about nothing left for Michelle to do..and I think to never get mothered by your own mother is very sad..I read on a blog of a former ATI member who said she knew the Duggars (and it seemed legitimate not fake), that even if the younger kids fell down and got hurt, the older kids got in trouble. I also think with the older girls doing all that buddying, and doing all the cooking, dishes, and laundry, their schoolwork must be suffering..
I agree with you a lot on these points. The girls do appear to be doing much more work, because the boys have to prepare to "support their family" while the girls must prepare to be a "keeper at home". I want to give my daughter more options then that.
And with the heavy amount of parenting that the older girls do, it does make it far, far easier for the parents to keep on having kids, because after six months, the brute load of parenting work is taken over by the older children.
I'm all for giving kids responsibility and work according to their age and ability, but when the only reason you can have so many children is because someone else is doing the lion's share of the parenting load....
Thanks Sideways..the be should have said me..and I meant to say "to the older kids," after well being..but you got the jist of it.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/25/2008 1:54:34 PM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:34:29 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
I hope you do. I hear it said so often on this forum, but like Lisa, I have never seen a source.
I will, but I'll wait until the wedding busyness dies down.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:51:28 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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So what if she weans early to get pregnant. They aren't on any government assistance and pay for their own way. I know people who have gotten pregnant while still nursing and others who didn't get pregnant who didn't nurse or do anything to prevent pregnancy. Ultimately isn't still up to God if and when pregnancy happens? I'm sure that every last one of those kids who are born are glad to be alive.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:56:48 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
So what if she weans early to get pregnant.
Nothing wrong with that at all, but then don't say you're letting God take charge COMPLETELY..admit that for the most part you are letting God take control, but you are also doing one little thing to help the process.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 1:59:42 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
The most interesting family I know doesn't believe in pictures, so they probably wouldn't be into being on TV, though.
So no baby pictures of the kiddos..or of other memories growing up?..That's kinda sad  ....their prerogative, of course, but still kinda sad in a way.
They believe it's a violation of the second commandment.
Yeah, I figured that...I think the Amish believe that too...I personally believe it applies to thinks like images of Jesus and of angels and stuff, not to family snapshots..but I still feel kind of sad for them missing out on baby memories..but like I said, they have a right to be convicted that way...at least none of her kids can complain the "other kid," got more baby pictures , and I gather scrapbooking is NOT her hobby But, we're kind of getting off topic...
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 2:03:19 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
pay for their own way.
Well, to some extent..TLC has paid for a lot in recent years..although since they are willing to be on a show for TLC, I guess in a way, they are earning the stuff...
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 2:04:34 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm sure that every last one of those kids who are born are glad to be alive.
I never said they weren't.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 9/25/2008 2:13:13 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
Some of them have carried on their families traditions and some haven't.
That's usually the way it is..my grandparents (after they were already old)..had a couple move in next door to them that were christians and had raised 10 kids According to my Grandma, the kids, after growing up ranged from quite liberal to "far more deeply religious then the parents,"(pardon my Grandma's language, as far as I know she never became a believer).
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/25/2008 2:25:47 PM >
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