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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 11:16:48 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4928
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Here's what I think I'm seeing...
On side A we have the modern family with 2 kids and dual income. One parent may or may not be working part time and the parents may or may not stagger their schedules to reduce how often a parent is away from kids. Younger children spend part of their time being cared for by an adult who is not mom or dad, and older children have school, maybe a part time job, or soccer, band, etc.
On side B we have the Duggars with 18 kids. Dad is self employed, mom is SAH. Younger children are often cared for by an older sibling, who is not yet an adult. Older male children maybe have a job (although I've only seen the oldest 2 male children mentioned specifically as having a job). Otherwise older children are at home with no outside interests that I can see.
Are both families perfect? No. Do both families love their children? Probably, yes. Which is "better" for the children? Which is healthier? Well.... now that's the debate, isn't it?
In the end, I suspect the children will grow up reasonably fine. I think the girls have limited options in life, especially once they marry, but it's a different belief system then the one I was raised with. But we talk about the Duggars and not family A because they are so unusual, and they are putting themselves out there for discussion.
Given a choice, I'd rather be the girl from family A and not the Duggars. Of course, I may say that because that was me, and I was pretty happy. Although my mom went back to work after my younger bro was in 1st grade.
I have a question. I want to know if your preference for being from family A or family B is based on who is your primary caregiver, or because of the normal vs. weird factor. I think they are two different issues.
On the normal vs. weird issue, I can totally sympathize. I think your preference might be the preference of a lot of people based on that. A lot of people simply don't enjoy being viewed by the world as strange. I wouldn't want to be a Duggar either, because I wouldn't want to have to read stuff on the internet about myself all the time. Even if they weren't famous, large families tend to get a lot of stares and unsolicited comments. Our culture in general is not kind to large families, and so I can understand from that point the desire to blend in, be normal, not draw attention to oneself.
On the other hand, if we leave the large family issues aside and just say for the sake of discussion that an older sibling is the primary caregiver (although I do not believe the buddy system does that), would you still prefer your primary caregiver to be a daycare worker over a sibling? With a sibling you can bond and have a permanant relationship. With a daycare worker, they might bond with a child, but they might quit their job next week and move on to something that pays better. They aren't going to have the same kind of relationship.
Ultimately, though, I believe (and I think we agree on this point) that as parents we all do the best we can, and it's our job before God to raise our children. Not anyone else's. We might disagree on certain parenting issues, but that does not mean they are bad parents.
I much prefer to keep the focus on issues and not families. I have wonderful friends here that parent their children differently than I do, and I respect their rights to do that even if they do something strange like, oh, deprive their children from the joys of Barbie dolls. (Sorry, LisaP--I had to throw that one in there!) 
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 11:50:18 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3629
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I have a question. I want to know if your preference for being from family A or family B is based on who is your primary caregiver, or because of the normal vs. weird factor. I think they are two different issues.
Oh, I don't give a rat's behind if the world thinks I'm weird. Honestly that never entered my mind. I also don't have a lot of experience with daycare, but I know kids who are in it, and are happy and thriving.
No, my reason for picking family A was more based on the conservative religion factor, actually. I like the fact that I had activities outside of my family, like band and theater. I like the fact that I had the freedom to become a mechanical engineer and was actively encouraged to find a career outside the home, even though my mother was frequently praised for staying home for a number of years (until little bro started school), and after that she worked around our school schedules.
I know some of the Duggar females have expressed a desire for occupations like midwifery or beautician, but honestly... I don't see them having the same freedom as the boys. They will probably be strongly encouraged to marry young, have children right away and be a SAHM.
Before anyone gets their panties in a knot THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THOSE CHOICES! Sorry, it does get old when, even though I am a SAHM, I get accused of attacking more conservative women. But, I was happy having the freedoms and encouragement I did to look for a part of my life outside of cooking, cleaning and taking care of babies. That's just my personal feeling.
Is that a large family vs small family issue? Not particularly, but in modern family A vs. QF conservative family B - those are the type of issues and differences I tend to see.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 12:54:29 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Anyways, why would they edit in such a way as to cast a negative light on the family (that the parents didn't seem to worried, nor comforting him)? TLC has bent over backward to be as positive as possible, from what I can tell.
It seems to me that the negativity in this case is not from editing, but from the pre-conceived attitudes towards this family. It's not surprising that people already critical toward the Duggars are going to read into it something awful, and someone supportive of them are going to see a different situation.
I think critical is a somewhat strong word here. I don't think being concerned that the older girls might be being a little overworked, and that the littles might be missing out on some direct mom and dad parenting is exactly critical. Those of us that have some of those concerns have also made MANY positive statements about the family, but those statements keep getting overlooked. It's almost like those of us who have been branded "critical" have also been branded as being able to see NOTHING good in the family, and that's not true, and so our positive statements just keep getting overlooked. I listed off 9 things I admired about the family in post #344, and no one seems to have noticed.
And, in a post before that, I made SIX statements..two negative, four positive....and I was responded to as if I had ONLY made the two negative statements.
FWIW, when I was in high school, I thought the Duggars' way of life was the EXACT IDEAL way to live...but after nannying for families that lived pretty much like them, I got a taste of some of the difficulties of that lifestyle from the inside. That has probably colored my perceptions somewhat.
quote:
With a daycare worker, they might bond with a child, but they might quit their job next week and move on to something that pays better.
Some of "my" day care kids still run up and give me hugs when we run into each other in town.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 10/3/2008 1:12:11 PM >
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 3:21:04 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10529
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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As far as the daycare issue vs. older child. I don't see this as a simple issue of who will love the small child the best. The fact is, there are amazing daycare providers out there and there are some older siblings who shouldn't come near small ones with a ten foot pole (not to say they are "bad" but they may not have the common sense in childcare). I think most parents work to ensure that no matter who watches their kiddos, it is someone who will do great and love their kids. I don't see this as a family is always good, daycare is always bad (especially since I am friends with some pretty darn amazing daycare providers).
Again, it all comes back to balance. It's awesome they are making sure the little ones are cared for. But what about the older ones? What about their needs? Just because they don't need someone helping them get dressed, doesn't mean they are ready to be parents.
That's my concern.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 11:13:50 PM
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Chrystal-J-007
Posts: 610
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Detroit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Again, it all comes back to balance. It's awesome they are making sure the little ones are cared for. But what about the older ones? What about their needs? Just because they don't need someone helping them get dressed, doesn't mean they are ready to be parents.
That's my concern.
Ditto here. The older kids didn't choose to be parents--yet they're thrust in the role. Helping is one thing--parenting is another.
_____________________________
Worry looks around, Sorrow looks back, Faith looks up
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...timing is everything!
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/6/2008 11:05:55 AM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chrystal-J-007
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Again, it all comes back to balance. It's awesome they are making sure the little ones are cared for. But what about the older ones? What about their needs? Just because they don't need someone helping them get dressed, doesn't mean they are ready to be parents.
That's my concern.
Ditto here. The older kids didn't choose to be parents--yet they're thrust in the role. Helping is one thing--parenting is another.
This is true in any family. My sister has 6 kids the oldest is 20 yrs the youngest 6. My niece has been momma as much as if not more at times than my sister. She is now being berated (sp) by her 16 and 14 yr old sister because she left to go to college this year. They tell her she is betraying the family and abandoning them. Sad. She has health issues from the stress.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/6/2008 11:40:44 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4227
Joined: 4/11/2005
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The same thing happened when I left for college. My younger brother has really never gotten over it. He felt completely abandoned.
(Do we have a new episode tonight? I can't keep track of all the new shows I'm watching now.)
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Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/6/2008 10:31:48 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
. I'm hoping the second half will give some details on how Josh and Anna met.
Most sources say they met at a "home school conference." Methinks it was a Gothard home school conference.
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/6/2008 10:47:36 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3789
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From: The EMPIRE state!
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I am watching them on TLC right now.
_____________________________
Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 12:05:55 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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Can you elaborate, Torch Heart? It's hard to tell what you're thinking with what little you've said.
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 12:58:35 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10529
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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Hopefully I am wrong in this, but Josh kept saying things to Anna like, "This is what I do. This is what you'll be doing too". What about what Anna may want to do?
I was also wondering about the 97% too. I mean, I know many, many folks don't wait, but I know many, many who did and are (like me  ). And it's not just Christians who have values regarding abstinence until marriage.
I didn't get the kissing thing either. I totally respect couples making the decision to wait to kiss until their wedding day. I know some who have done that for some very specific reasons and I have a HUGE amount of respect for them. It seemed like the entire family thought that kissing was actually wrong though and I don't see that in Scripture. Was I missing something there? I did appreciate them discussing purity and waiting and honoring each other in that.
The other concern I had was when Jim Bob said that Michelle had had previous boyfriends before they married and that that had created problems. Was it the relationship were bad or was it what Josh kept alluding too about simply having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex was giving away pieces of your heart and you wouldn't have much left when you finally found "the one"? I don't see Scriptural support for that. Having a boyfriend is not going to take away from your ability to love your husband 10 years later.
On the positive side, you could see how genuinely excited the family was for Josh and Anna and the respect they had for them. I do wonder how hard it will be for those two to leave and cleave though. That's a really hard thing for most couples, especially young couples. I guess what made me wonder is that everything came back to "my parents said this, my parents taught us that, my parents are who I respect, etc". All of those are awesome things, but do they have people outside their family who can help prepare them for marriage? The leaving and cleaving is probably one of the most difficult things for many couples and if your only marital counseling and support comes from your parents, well, I don't see that as a good thing even if your parents are the most amazing people on the planet.
I think this show confirms what I have already wondered. They seem like a very nice family who love each other and care about each other. My concern is not in any particular thing, but rather the extremes they seem to take in things. I guess I tend to think too much of a good thing, is no longer a good thing.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 1:10:27 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
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From: California
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quote:
I was also wondering about the 97% too. I mean, I know many, many folks don't wait, but I know many, many who did and are (like me ). And it's not just Christians who have values regarding abstinence until marriage.
People anywhere can find statistics to promote their own viewpoint.
Kristin, was this episode the wedding or just the courtship? I didn't see it yet, a friend is Tivo ing for me.
quote:
The other concern I had was when Jim Bob said that Michelle had had previous boyfriends before they married and that that had created problems. Was it the relationship were bad or was it what Josh kept alluding too about simply having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex was giving away pieces of your heart and you wouldn't have much left when you finally found "the one"? I don't see Scriptural support for that. Having a boyfriend is not going to take away from your ability to love your husband 10 years later.
I think this philosophy gets stated often in courtship type circles, especially in the hope of encouraging young people to behave a certain way. I understand it to an extent...but it fails to admit that God can wash away the past, and help people move on..His grace is sufficient.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 10/8/2008 4:43:31 AM >
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 6:34:25 AM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3789
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I thought it was great!there were things that made me wonder too, but that is just a part of them not being me. that is fine.
I hope that my kids also don't kiss before their wedding day. I think that it is wonderful. I understand about previous relationships bring trouble (although I missed that part). I wish that I could have been like my hubby with no one before him. I really didn't trust God to have such awesome plans for my life. And Yes, having previous relationships can certainly affect your relationship with your hubby 10 years later. And while God can wash it all away, He often does not wash away the consequences of our decisions.
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 8:54:24 AM
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macokjc
Posts: 256
Joined: 2/24/2008
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I thought it was sweet. A little slow moving, so I don't know if I would want to watch a whole sesaon, but I would be thrilled if my children turned out as respectful as these 17.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:28:29 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4227
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I don't have a problem with all the purity stuff, chaperones, etc. If you don't think you can control yourself, go ahead and do whatever it takes to make sure you can. I, too, think the whole "guarding your heart" stuff is a little silly. But whatever.
quote:
Hopefully I am wrong in this, but Josh kept saying things to Anna like, "This is what I do. This is what you'll be doing too". What about what Anna may want to do?
She's a sweet girl and he's a nice guy...but yeah...selling cars is the absolute last thing many people want to do. I sincerely hope that if she has other goals, she's allowed to work toward those goals instead of being her husband's...shadow...or whatever.
Loved the cousin! She was really funny. Although the line, "She's not like us, but we like her anyway" kind of made me roll my eyes. Love how things go both ways. 
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:36:15 AM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3789
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Having chaperons and such isn't necessarily because you can't control yourself, but just seeing the wisdom of not putting yourself in that position in the first place.
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 10:43:07 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Can you elaborate, Torch Heart? It's hard to tell what you're thinking with what little you've said.
I just felt bad for the kids, and especially the future daughter-in-law being brought into this. It's almost creepy. I honestly felt like I was watching life in a compound.
- Older kids are forced to act as parents before their time because the parents keep having kids
- A dating couple isn't allowed to show any form of affection for one another, except holding hands. They aren't even allowed to be alone together, and are forced to have chaparones (which I see as more of a way for the parents to keep the kids under their thumb as anything else)
- The girls are basically being raised to become housewives and baby-making machines, and nothing else (at least that was the impression I got). It seems like that's the only option they have. What if they want to do more with their lives?
- Jim Bob and his wife: "If you ever feel the desire to show one another affection, we'll just kiss for you." Hahahaha... YEEESH!!!! Maybe some people thought that was sweet. I thought it was creepy. For pete's sake! Let the kids kiss or hug. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Let them have a LITTLE privacy! If you trust them enough to be adults and to be mature enough to get married, trust them enough to make the right decisions. If you've raised them right, chances are they will.
- Money.... how do they get enough money to support all these kids, again? I must have missed this.
- Very controlling and restrictive atmosphere, I felt. NOT the best kind to raise kids in.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 10/7/2008 11:01:58 AM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/7/2008 1:08:22 PM
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reach
Posts: 1339
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I have to take some words back. I saw another show last night where the family had 13 kids. They seemed normal. The parents loved on them. The kids had fun. Got dirty. They went out and everyone helped. I loved what I saw and could relate.
So, I take back about the older kids helping out, because I think at some point, parents just don't have that many hands. And as long as the older kids don't feel they "HAVE" to be the parent I think that is a healthy way for the family to interact.
I don't take back that I feel that the Duggers take advantage of the older siblings, and that the kids do way more of the parenting than the parents do. I do beleive that there is a difference between helping and it being their "job".
I did like the episode last night. I thought it was sweet, and I liked watching the kids hold hands and it was fun and they loved just being able to be in contact with each other. I remember those days and it gave me warm fuzzies.
I did think it was funny that a family that is so "conservative" that they had to ditch one chaperone because she was not old enough to see the "R" rated movie. LOL!
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