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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:13:47 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4928
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
I remember asking one lady how she does it with so many. She said oh it actually gets easier the more you have because once the kids get older they do the work.
It does get easier when the kids get older. They can pick up after themselves, start laundry, help with dishes, all sorts of things they couldn't do when they were little. When I had a bunch of little ones I spent a lot more time working on stuff than I do now. I don't know what's so awful about making the kids pitch in and contribute to the household. I still do more work than they do, and I think as long as the parents are doing their share it's not wrong to make the kids do their share.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:24:31 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4259
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alrighty then...I guess there are only extreme views.
I think I'll just stick to watching the actual show.  or as much of it as I can stand. It just isn't the kind of program I normally watch, but I'm intrigued for now.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:46:19 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
get their buddies dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc.
With each one only helping *one* smaller sibling, this might take 10 minutes max. I'm sure they have the routine down. What's wrong with that? This way they can all get to the breakfast table in a reasonable amount of time and have <drumroll> family time! Hooray! 
quote:
teach their buddies
They do *some* of the teaching. It's *part* of their school routine, not all of it. I'm encouraging my 5 yo to "teach" his little brothers because he reinforces what he's learning that way. 
quote:
give their buddies music lessons
So, giving *one* child music lessons (once a week? twice a week? I don't know thier schedule), maybe half an hour to one hour. And that is part of school and will be counted towards the older child's academic "resume". That's bad?
quote:
get their buddies ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for the next day)
Again, with helping only one buddy, the bedtime basics wouldn't take that long. Maybe some families have a one-hour bedtime routine and a loooong bath every night. We don't. I doubt the Duggars do. I must be a really neglectful mom because I have Asrat get the boys toothbrushes down and hand them out every evening, even though I could do it myself. Brainwashing him early. And I rarely pick my 3 yo's clothes out. He can do that himself and would be tickled if I let him get into Biruk's drawer and design the next day's outfits (I definately *don't* let him do that ).
I think the Duggars have a setup that's not perfect, and not for everybody, but seems to work for them. How do you all know that Michelle doesn't go down the row of children and sniff armpits and check teeth herself, to make sure that they've been doing what they need to? How do you know that they don't enjoy thier family time more when everybody knows who's doing what and how long it will take? How do you know that she's off painting her nails while her daughters are slaving over a hot stove and playing preschool teachers? 
It isn't just one buddy some have two and no we don't know that Michelle isn't doing all that but you would think that they might want to show her doing some of mothering since this is suppose to be their reality, but everything I have seen in these two shows and past shows doesn't. I hope to see some of that in future episodes.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:47:26 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
alrighty then...I guess there are only extreme views.
Actually, I think Sideways and I both both tried to express both the negatives AND THE POSITIVES that we saw in them. It's just that a lot of our positive insights weren't responded to, probably because to people that admire the family, a negative opinion will stick out more.
quote:
How do you know that she's off painting her nails while her daughters are slaving over a hot stove and playing preschool teachers?
I don't know that, I have no way of knowing it. But I DID see her child get lost, and I did see the child get found, and I did see all the comforting left up to the buddy, while Michelle stood some distance away talking on her cell phone. One of the times I was a nanny, one time, when the parents weren't home, the toddler "got away" licketly split (the older girl left the back door open when she went to go ride her bike-and yes I did try to be aware of the kids at all times, but it was just one of those things that happens in a blink when you're doing some other duty-like the laundry). The other kids and I immediately began frantically looking for her, and she was finally found by her dad, as he drove up-she had toddled to the end of the driveway at that point. I was so relieved I held that child until she couldn't stand it anymore (and yes, I told the parents all that happened, and probably why I held her instead of the dad was because he wasn't the one that had known she was lost-so he hadn't been panicking like me-he did hold that child alot, Michelle KNEW Jackson had been lost). And that wasn't even my own flesh and blood. I just don't understand why Michelle wasn't clinging to her own flesh and blood after he had been lost, and then was found.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 10/2/2008 5:05:38 PM >
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"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:50:03 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
I remember asking one lady how she does it with so many. She said oh it actually gets easier the more you have because once the kids get older they do the work.
It does get easier when the kids get older. They can pick up after themselves, start laundry, help with dishes, all sorts of things they couldn't do when they were little. When I had a bunch of little ones I spent a lot more time working on stuff than I do now. I don't know what's so awful about making the kids pitch in and contribute to the household. I still do more work than they do, and I think as long as the parents are doing their share it's not wrong to make the kids do their share.
Again there is a difference in pitching in and doing all the work. I know in the one family that the kids did do all the housework and cleaning. I agree that there isn't anything wrong with the kids helping. But I think the parents should be doing more than their fair share in taking care of their children, they decided to have them, and taking care of their home.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 4:57:45 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I think Kohls, Sideways, and I all Cross-posted.
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"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 5:04:55 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4928
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
And that wasn't even my own flesh and blood. I just don't understand why Michelle wasn't clinging to her own flesh and blood after he had been lost, and then was found.
She's probably used to it.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 5:11:04 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
And that wasn't even my own flesh and blood. I just don't understand why Michelle wasn't clinging to her own flesh and blood after he had been lost, and then was found.
She's probably used to it.
Maybe, but with all the children that are kidnapped and/or murdered, I would think any time a lost child was found, it would be a great relief and moment of love to the child and thanks to God by the mother when the child was found.
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 5:58:18 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
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From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
And that wasn't even my own flesh and blood. I just don't understand why Michelle wasn't clinging to her own flesh and blood after he had been lost, and then was found.
She's probably used to it.
Maybe, but with all the children that are kidnapped and/or murdered, I would think any time a lost child was found, it would be a great relief and moment of love to the child and thanks to God by the mother when the child was found.
And we're not talking about a small child getting lost in the house, at a store, etc. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT for goodness sake!
When my dd was about 3, she decided to hide from us in the house (we weren't playing a game - she did this on her own). Dh, ds and I casually looked through the house, then we panicedly (I know that's not a real word) ran through the house looking in cupboards and stuff. Then we went TEARING through the house and in the yard calling, then screaming! Dh got into the car to look in the neighborhood, ds started going door to door. When I finally *screamed* for her to come out if she was hiding because I was calling the police, I heard a giggle. Well, all that panic turned to anger unfortunately, then turned to sheer relief and thankfulness.
I cannot fathom why Michelle just *seemed* to stand by. Even if it was an hour later! Not once did they show either parent with fear or panic. I just find that odd...
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:00:34 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
I didn't watch the show, but how old was the little guy who got lost?
I just found that his birthday is May 23, 2004. So he would have been turning 4 around the time he was lost.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:06:27 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
I didn't watch the show, but how old was the little guy who got lost?
Donna, Jackson was the one that got lost, and I believe he is 4.
Here are all the ages:
quote:
Names Date of Birth Notes[11]
1 Joshua James March 3, 1988 (age 20) eldest child; married 9/26/08 to Anna Keller
2 Jana Marie January 12, 1990 (age 18) twin of John-David
3 John-David January 12, 1990 (age 18) twin of Jana
4 Jill Michelle May 17, 1991 (age 17)
5 Jessa Lauren November 4, 1992 (age 15)
6 Jinger Nicole December 21, 1993 (age 14) pronounced like "Ginger"
7 Joseph Garrett January 20, 1995 (age 13)
8 Josiah Matthew August 28, 1996 (age 12)
9 Joy-Anna October 28, 1997 (age 10)
10 Jeremiah Robert December 30, 1998 (age 9) twin of Jedidiah
11 Jedidiah Robert December 30, 1998 (age 9) twin of Jeremiah
12 Jason Michael April 21, 2000 (age 8)
13 James Andrew July 7, 2001 (age 7)
14 Justin Samuel November 15, 2002 (age 5)
15 Jackson Levi May 23, 2004 (age 4) birth featured on Discovery Health Channel special
16 Johannah Faith October 11, 2005 (age 2) birth featured on Discovery Health Channel special
17 Jennifer Danielle August 2, 2007 (age 1) birth featured on Discovery Health Channel special
18 Unborn girl due Jan. 1, 2009 announced May 9, 2008
from Wikipedia
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:29:08 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4928
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
they didn't show her during the time he was lost....they showed dad going to find him...and the camera didn't get back to Michelle and the kids til dad got back. by then he was calmed down...and maybe Michelle was calling family in the background because she had called them saying he was lost and could they pray...I would have done that. They didn't show her holding him at that moment, but who's to say she NEVER consoled him.
Good point. Watching snippets of someone's life on video is never going to really tell you what things are like.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:40:09 PM
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Sideways
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True, but these snippets are all we have when discussing this TV show. So, if we can't discuss what we see on the show....
Anyways, why would they edit in such a way as to cast a negative light on the family (that the parents didn't seem to worried, nor comforting him)? TLC has bent over backward to be as positive as possible, from what I can tell.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:54:12 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4928
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
Anyways, why would they edit in such a way as to cast a negative light on the family (that the parents didn't seem to worried, nor comforting him)? TLC has bent over backward to be as positive as possible, from what I can tell.
It seems to me that the negativity in this case is not from editing, but from the pre-conceived attitudes towards this family. It's not surprising that people already critical toward the Duggars are going to read into it something awful, and someone supportive of them are going to see a different situation.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 7:06:12 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
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From: California
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quote:
by then he was calmed down...
That's what I thought at first too, I even said so here:
quote:
I felt sad for little Jackson when he got lost in the airport. I'm glad they found him, though. It was kind of funny that they showed Jana and not Michelle comforting him, but he seemed like he was at the tail end of crying, so Michelle had probably already comforted him..and then he probably went to sit with Jana after that..it's probably hard for them to film everything.
But when I watched the tape again (before posting again, and before reading any other posts-interesting that I said 6 things, two negative and four positive, and only my negative statements were responded to ), this time actually sitting down and watching it, and not watching it trying to do other things..it seemed like he was still pretty upset.
Here are some nice things I think about the family (some of which were said upthread, but didn't seem to be noticed).
1. I love how open they are about their faith.
2. I love how they sing christian songs while they were traveling..I wish I could find the words to the one song they were singing on the bus. They do all have beautiful voices. As someone who can't carry a tune, it does amaze me to hear a family that large all sing well.
3.All of the children are very attractive! And they are obviously fed and clothed. Not one of them are over or underweight. The girls have beautiful figures. Even Michelle doesn't even look overweight when she's not pregnant.
4. The kids do all seem well behaved and polite.
5. They do work together as a familly.
6. They do play together as a family.
7. I did think they looked adorable when they were all in a line at the Peabody hotel.
8. I like how Josh said he cares about being a good example to his brothers.
9. The parents do seem to really love each other as husband and wife.
This next thing wasn't necessarily good or bad, but it WAS amazing. They said it cost $500.00 to fill the gas tank on that bus.  To be able to own and maintain a bus that costs that much to fill takes some good money management.
This is also not good or bad, just amusing. Most of their kids seem pretty calm, but that little Johannah is a lively one! I bet they have their hands full with her.
And I still think that whoever it was in NYC that said they thought they looked Amish, didn't know much about the Amish.
Also, that circle formation thing they had them in was really cool. And that redhead girl that was listing off all their names cracked me up. I used to do that at her age.   She reminded me of me when I was her age. She even fiddled with her hair the same way I did.
HERE is a link to the song they were singing on the bus..Maggie, for your sake, the link is NOT to you tube (I see you up there  ).
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 10/3/2008 2:11:58 AM >
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 9:12:31 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4227
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Anyways, why would they edit in such a way as to cast a negative light on the family (that the parents didn't seem to worried, nor comforting him)? TLC has bent over backward to be as positive as possible, from what I can tell.
It seems to me that the negativity in this case is not from editing, but from the pre-conceived attitudes towards this family. It's not surprising that people already critical toward the Duggars are going to read into it something awful, and someone supportive of them are going to see a different situation.
I agree. And I love reading over and over the justifications for things that parents should be doing. And I also love that some people can only see good and not think critically about anything the Duggars do that might not be "good parenting."
Frankly, after watching the program over a second time, I have fewer kind things to say than I did the first time. I was more careful to listen to all the interviews and the questions and watch how editing was handled. But I'll spare all of you.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 10:07:08 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
Joined: 8/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
Thanks for the list of ages!
From that list, only the bottom 4-6 should be real labor-intensive as far as needing help with things. I bet the buddies don't have all that much to do unless they are out and about, and just general checking at bedtime and in the morning. My 7 and 8 year olds do most everything themselves now, so that's what I'm basing that on. Even my 3.5 year old only needs a little help with dressing, pottying, and teeth brushing, and I don't have to hold her hand every second when we're out somewhere.
I agree that most of the children are old enough to be able to do a lot for themselves and not really need the buddy that is why I don't understand why Michelle can't do the things for the younger ones herself.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 7:55:02 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3629
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
The face-to-face thing--I know lots of families, large and small, who set "dates" to ensure that all thier kids have access to them on their own. I also know many "normal" families who rarely see their older children at all between work and school and extracurricular activities. The Duggar children have constant access to their parents if they need attention. They just aren't constantly the focus of attention.
You make some fair points, Maggie. We do know that they have a sign up sheet to request time with mom and dad, and if there was a real problem I'm sure mom and dad would get involved. But I'm not sure how much real time access they have when they're competing with 16 other people for the time and resources of 1 or 2 parents.
As for older children in a modern world? Well, we already know the older Duggar boys have jobs at least (I have not heard of the females being able to earn a wage outside the home), and school and extracurricular activities are not bad things. Those kids have constant access too, just pick up a cell phone and say "Mom, Dad, I really need you right now." How is that different from trying to get time off a sign up sheet?
ETA: If you were talking about the parents having jobs, then I'd say that not all parents can be self employed, but it's a rare day that I can't call my dH and work and at least talk for a few minutes about something that's troubling me. If it's a real emergency, he can leave work.
< Message edited by Sideways -- 10/3/2008 8:27:11 AM >
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/3/2008 9:07:31 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3629
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Here's what I think I'm seeing...
On side A we have the modern family with 2 kids and dual income. One parent may or may not be working part time and the parents may or may not stagger their schedules to reduce how often a parent is away from kids. Younger children spend part of their time being cared for by an adult who is not mom or dad, and older children have school, maybe a part time job, or soccer, band, etc.
On side B we have the Duggars with 18 kids. Dad is self employed, mom is SAH. Younger children are often cared for by an older sibling, who is not yet an adult. Older male children maybe have a job (although I've only seen the oldest 2 male children mentioned specifically as having a job). Otherwise older children are at home with no outside interests that I can see.
Are both families perfect? No. Do both families love their children? Probably, yes. Which is "better" for the children? Which is healthier? Well.... now that's the debate, isn't it?
In the end, I suspect the children will grow up reasonably fine. I think the girls have limited options in life, especially once they marry, but it's a different belief system then the one I was raised with. But we talk about the Duggars and not family A because they are so unusual, and they are putting themselves out there for discussion.
Given a choice, I'd rather be the girl from family A and not the Duggars. Of course, I may say that because that was me, and I was pretty happy. Although my mom went back to work after my younger bro was in 1st grade.
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We've already said many, many times, that older children pitching in is good and healthy. What's being debated here is the extent that the older one (especially the girls) are pitching in, to the detriment of having any life of their own. 
