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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/1/2008 9:04:49 PM
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LaurainAL
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You know what I do like about the Duggars: they don't seem to give one iota what everyone else thinks. Good for them on that.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/1/2008 9:06:24 PM
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Sideways
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I suppose you'd have to have a thick skin to put your whole life out there for the world to see.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/1/2008 9:19:21 PM
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kohls356
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OneofHisJewels, I didn't say anything about how it was one of the older daughters comforting Jackson and not Michelle when had been lost in the airport but I agree with you. It would have been nice seeing Michelle comforting him instead of just hearing her being concerned in the interview. If this is their reality that they are protraying then I can only go by what I saw and that was an older sibling comforting him instead of his mother. I wonder how many times during the day that happens. Makes a person wonder if the younger children prefer the comfort of their buddy to their mother since that is the person that takes care of them. I was also wondering just where his buddy was when he got lost. Honestly Jim Bob didn't even show much concern to me when he was looking for him. He talked about how he was running here and there but he was just casually walking around and even smiling when talking about Jackson being missing. They didn't even know he was missing until a camera man said he thought he overheard an announcement saying they had a child named Jackson that was missing and to go to a certain place.
I do believe that it has been said many times in this thread that the problem isn't that the kids help each other out by bathing and dressing etc. It is that they are required to do those things all of the time. They are responsible for a specific child all day. It may not be necessary for the parents to be the ones to bathe, feed, dress, etc. the kids but for me it was a bonding time for me with my kids. You get to know your kids by doing those little things for them and with them.
For someone to claim how precious her children are to her and what blessings and gifts they are, she is quick to pass them on to someone else to take care of. That baby was only 9 months old when they shot that episode and you hardly ever saw her even holding her. It seems as soon as she has one she is already thinking about the next one, I mean this child isn't even born yet and she has already talked about more children she wants. I hate to say it but it just seems like a numbers game to me at this point. Even when she made the announcement she didn't say to her other children that they are getting a new brother or sister it was that they were expecting, number 18!!!!
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/1/2008 9:20:15 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Ann Curry asked them, right after Josh's wedding why they were willing to be on a reality show when they were a traditional family.
Jim Bob said, "Because we want people to see we can have fun, even though we're a big family." That kinda indicates to me some care of what people think.
I do think they are brave to put themselves out there like that, though. I could not do it in a 1,000 years.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/1/2008 9:26:00 PM
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LaurainAL
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There was a program I saw on them while they were traveling. What bothered me most was that Mom and Dad got a hotel room to themselves while the kids shared 2 rooms. The older children were responsible for the younger ones while Mom and Dad had a room to themselves. It's not the same as sharing a bedroom at home.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 2:42:08 AM
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Roberta_
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My former MIL was the oldest of 12. She gave birth to seven kids, but only four survived. She wanted to have a large family, but she had some problems that prevented her from having more.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 6:51:35 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
Besides that, how often do the moms who use daycare get an earful about how they should be spending quantity of time with their children, not just quality? How much quantity of one on one time does each child get? It just sounds a tad hypocritical to me, that our WOH moms get lambasted because they have competent adults caring for some of their kids basic needs, but the Duggars are praised because they have 12 year olds caring for their babies' basic needs.
I think it's ironic the other way. Working parents don't like to hear that hired help are "raising their children". Quality time is all that matters. According to that argument you are still raising your own children even if you only see them for a few waking hours during the day, Right? 
Yet with a family where each older child has *some* responsibility for *one* younger child, it is suddenly "those poor children are raising thier siblings".
I just don't see how JimBob and Michelle are "uninvolved". What I have seen from them they are a family that prays and worships together, works together, plays together, etc. They are *together*. Because they are there, the children do get interaction. It's not like Michelle is glued to the TV or computer ignoring them. 
They're not perfect. I wouldn't do things exactly the way they do. But I disagree with the implications that they are neglectful parents.
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This question IS for you, Maggie, because it's a fun one . Are you excited that they are going to meet the Canadian/Romanian family with 18 kids?
That should be an interesting meeting. Unfortunately I won't get to see it unless our library gets it on dvd. 
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 7:21:38 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Besides that, how often do the moms who use daycare get an earful about how they should be spending quantity of time with their children, not just quality? How much quantity of one on one time does each child get? It just sounds a tad hypocritical to me, that our WOH moms get lambasted because they have competent adults caring for some of their kids basic needs, but the Duggars are praised because they have 12 year olds caring for their babies' basic needs.
I think it's ironic the other way. Working parents don't like to hear that hired help are "raising their children". Quality time is all that matters. According to that argument you are still raising your own children even if you only see them for a few waking hours during the day, Right?
Yet with a family where each older child has *some* responsibility for *one* younger child, it is suddenly "those poor children are raising thier siblings".
It's all about where you place emphasis. Everything we've heard shows that a young teen has a great deal of responsibility for their younger sibling, even comforting them when they are upset/hurt. Working parents know that they have trained adults caring for their children part of the time, but they often are forced to make that choice to provide their kids with the things they need.
So, the hypocrisy still stands, but it's all based on your point of view. Working moms are bad, the Duggars are good.
A 12 year old who has primary responsibility for a toddler 7 days a week during the majority of the day vs. parents who must work and therefore hire an adult to care for their child during part of the week (some parents work only part time, others stagger their schedule to reduce the time the child is with a non-parent). One option sounds a whole lot safer to me. One option doesn't put a very heavy weight on a young teen, especially if that toddler gets seriously hurt.
I still stand on the idea that if you're relying on a 13 year old to keep your younger child safe, then maybe you really can't handle so many kids. And just because mom is under the same roof as you, doesn't mean she can really *be* with you, or pay any attention to you at all, really.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 7:56:46 AM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
A weak argument at best, if they can't actually be keeping an eye on the safety of their own kids. Either way they are entrusting their kids to someone else, one is a trained adult, one is an adolescent. Just because mom is in a completely different part of the house doesn't mean a 2 year old can't drown in a toilet cause the 12 year old buddy wasn't watching close enough.
And the fact that "parents are there" doesn't address the quantity argument that often gets thrown at working moms. Just because "mom is there" doesn't make much of a difference if each individual child gets very little one on one interaction with their parent.
Do these teen buddies follow around the younger children all day? I doubt it. Couldn't a 2 year old drown in any house because Mom wasn't watching close enough? The way it sounded to me, they have specific responsibilities and they have one buddy that's assigned to them when they are doing something where all the little kids are going to need help. For example, I imagine when they go to a potluck, they all find their buddies and fill their plates for them. I don't picture them following these kids around all day or keeping them close to their sides. I imagine it to be a pretty normal large-family house with kids playing with various kids all over the place.
They work together, they play together, they homeschool together. They are with their parents all day long. They sit around the table and have family devotions. They are a family.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 8:02:54 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
So, the hypocrisy still stands, but it's all based on your point of view. Working moms are bad, the Duggars are good.
Or, the Duggars and bad, and working moms are good.
But, the parents *are* there if the toddler gets seriously hurt and they *are* ultimately responsible, not to mention way more supervisory than a parent who's away working could ever be. Michelle is not handing over a toddler to a preteen and then *leaving the house all day*. She is *there*. She can take care of problems if they arise.
I agree with Lisa that they just can't win. On the one hand they are bad because they shelter thier children so much and are together so much. On the other hand it's not enough that they do that. THey should be eye-ball to eye-ball with every child all day long somehow, and because they're not, they're neglecting them.
I don't have the buddy system as the Duggars have described it, because I can totally see how it could work and be a good thing and still have mom and dad actually being the parents. We can only see bits and pieces of the Duggars actual life. People who already assume that having 18 children is impossible to do well of course will take the absolute worst possible way it could work and assume that's what's happening with the Duggars.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 8:13:11 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Or, the Duggars and bad, and working moms are good.
I don't think the Duggars are bad people (even if I disagree with certain aspects about them), and I don't think all working moms are angels. I mean, I choose to stay home, so that must mean I see some value in it right?
And there's a difference between eyeball to eyeball all day long, and hardly being able to spend any one-on-one time with each child.
But even if mom is ultimately responsible, the older child is still the one with the first line of responsibility, the one who will shoulder the guilt if little Jackson is never found again. I think some criticisms have been raised about the Duggars, and their supporters think we are painting them as devils who can do nothing good.
Actually, a lot of us see a mixed bag in the Duggars. Certain things are really admirable, other things... not so much. As far as the statement "they can't win"... well, nobody can "win". No one can please everyone, and no one should even try. We're simply discussing the good and bad aspects of their life, that they have chosen to put on public display. And their public display is all we can judge them on, but I don't think it's unfair to make commentary on what they themselves have chosen to show to the public.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:42:27 PM
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kohls356
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I have heard Michelle say on several of the other shows they have done that yes the older children have a buddy sometimes two that they are responsible for all day. Also from what it sounded like it was the same buddy they are responsible for each day, it doesn't change. So those older kids are bonding with the younger ones doing the parenting duties for them daily.
I am sure the younger kids do play together just like in any other family but when it comes time to meal time, getting dressed, bathing all the other daily things younger children need help with the older buddy does it.
It is true we only see bits and pieces of their life but from what the shows is portraying is the parents being pretty hands off in the day to day taking care of their children.
I know some large families, they don't have 17 kids, but they run their home with the buddy system like this and the older kids do take care of the younger ones. Not only do they take care of the kids but they are responsible for the housework, laundry, cooking etc. I remember asking one lady how she does it with so many. She said oh it actually gets easier the more you have because once the kids get older they do the work.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:48:43 PM
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kohls356
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
There was a program I saw on them while they were traveling. What bothered me most was that Mom and Dad got a hotel room to themselves while the kids shared 2 rooms. The older children were responsible for the younger ones while Mom and Dad had a room to themselves. It's not the same as sharing a bedroom at home.
I remember that too. You would think they would at least have a few of the younger children with them. I know in their huge home they only have the baby with them until the baby moves to the other room when the new one comes along. I wonder if that means that the older children take care of them during the night as well.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:51:28 PM
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doinkdom
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I think I'm going to be paying closer attention to the parents' body language in future shows, because that's what I was watching in the first show and why I expressed my doubts/concerns about the kids being parents.
It's a weekly show right?
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:52:46 PM
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stellaluna
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Actually, this is what the older Duggar children are responsible for in a day (in addition to chores):
get their buddies dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc.
teach their buddies
give their buddies music lessons
get their buddies ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for the next day)
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:58:02 PM
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Sideways
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And the buddies are also responsible for the younger ones safety at least when they are out and about.
I wondered about the getting up at night stuff, too. I think Michelle averages 1 baby every 18 months, so most kids aren't getting up to often by that age, and if they're aggressive about sleep training, then they shouldn't have to many problems.
But I know my 18 month old is having nightmare issues right now (we think anyways, he can't really tell us), so I guess the older kids would be dealing with that.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 12:59:53 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
I remember asking one lady how she does it with so many. She said oh it actually gets easier the more you have because once the kids get older they do the work.
And therein lies the problem. I don't have a problem with kids doing chores..but teens should have a life besides just their family..spending time with friends, studying for school(whether they are home schooled or not), perhaps a part time job they actually get PAID for, being on the swim team, being in an orchestra or band, stuff like that.
If people want to have a large amount of children, I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. However, I have become pretty convicted over the years that the same people that have huge families (by huge I mean 9 and up, not 7 and below), should also be the same people that make sure that can afford SOME kind of household help or something. Take the family in Canada that has 18..she has 18, but her kids go to school. So, she may not have "paid help," but she has recognized her limits, she is not trying to "do it all herself." Don't get me wrong, I am not against home schooling, I am pretty pro home schooling, but I admire this lady for knowing where her limits are. And while the kids are in school, SHE takes care of the house and the babies. Her older kids aren't parenting the younger kids.
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-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 1:18:07 PM
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2shaye
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Besides that, how often do the moms who use daycare get an earful about how they should be spending quantity of time with their children, not just quality? How much quantity of one on one time does each child get? It just sounds a tad hypocritical to me, that our WOH moms get lambasted because they have competent adults caring for some of their kids basic needs, but the Duggars are praised because they have 12 year olds caring for their babies' basic needs.
I love this post! In addition, what kind of sahm needs to have a list on the frig for her kids to sign up to spend time with her????? I don't know too many working moms who need this!
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
And therein lies the problem. I don't have a problem with kids doing chores..but teens should have a life besides just their family..spending time with friends, studying for school(whether they are home schooled or not), perhaps a part time job they actually get PAID for, being on the swim team, being in an orchestra or band, stuff like that.
I agree with this, so much! Does anyone think that the Duggars are growing their kids up too fast and not allowing a natural maturity to occur? I'm all for teens helping out and pitching in and being responsible. But, come on! They are still teens!
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 1:19:53 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Actually, this is what the older Duggar children are responsible for in a day (in addition to chores):
get their buddies dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc.
teach their buddies
give their buddies music lessons
get their buddies ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for the next day)
Naps, too, Stellaluna!  You forgot putting them down for their naps! Which probably includes reading to them, and convincing them to stay down. I hated nap time when I taught pre school-not reading to them-I loved that-but naps were always the biggest battle.
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-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 1:35:21 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1992
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
And therein lies the problem. I don't have a problem with kids doing chores..but teens should have a life besides just their family..spending time with friends, studying for school(whether they are home schooled or not), perhaps a part time job they actually get PAID for, being on the swim team, being in an orchestra or band, stuff like that.
Well, part of the philosophy regarding families that people like the Duggars subscribe to is that your family are your best friends, and when you socialize, you do so with other, like-minded families. Teenagers having their own social lives is highly discouraged.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 1:39:37 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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From: California
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quote:
I didn't think any of the kids looked overly enthusiastic when they found out they were having another sibling.
I didn't think so either. I really thought an international stage was not the appropriate place for an announcement like that. I think she kind of stole their thunder, too, because they had been given the impression that the show was going to be all about them giving her the mother's day gifts. The little boy in the red vest (sorry, I can't tell that group of younger boys apart) looked like he didn't even know what was going on. Jessa and Jinger didn't look too thrilled, but then they looked up and realized a camera was zooming in on them, and they started smiling. Joy-Anna looked the happiest, but she still looked shocked.
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"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 1:55:26 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
I didn't think any of the kids looked overly enthusiastic when they found out they were having another sibling.
I didn't think so either. I really thought an international stage was not the appropriate place for an announcement like that. I think she kind of stole their thunder, too, because they had been given the impression that the show was going to be all about them giving her the mother's day gifts. The little boy in the red vest (sorry, I can't tell that group of younger boys apart) looked like he didn't even know what was going on. Jessa and Jinger didn't look too thrilled, but then they looked up and realized a camera was zooming in on them, and they started smiling. Joy-Anna looked the happiest, but she still looked shocked.
I thought the same thing and was wondering if anyone else was thinking they didn't look all that excited either. I too thought that it wasn't quite right to announce that to them on national tv. Of course I am sure they knew they had to act as excited as they could. I mean the girls had bought new clothes for their mom because they said she is always in maternity clothes and then she tells them they are expecting again,oh well hopefully one of these days she will be able to wear their gifts. Josh was like wow yeah I am shocked (not sure why) but then said well I guess it is about time it has been 9 months. So no I didn't think the older kids were that excited at all.
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 2:04:33 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
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From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kohls356
I know some large families, they don't have 17 kids, but they run their home with the buddy system like this and the older kids do take care of the younger ones. Not only do they take care of the kids but they are responsible for the housework, laundry, cooking etc. I remember asking one lady how she does it with so many. She said oh it actually gets easier the more you have because once the kids get older they do the work.
That seems like too much to me. I can see each child helping significantly but not doing all the work.
We all can agree that it's good to have a healthy amount of responsibility as an older sibling, but we disagree on the definition of "healthy amount of responsibility".
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-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Duggars getting reality show - 10/2/2008 2:55:11 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2504
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quote:
get their buddies dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc.
With each one only helping *one* smaller sibling, this might take 10 minutes max. I'm sure they have the routine down. What's wrong with that? This way they can all get to the breakfast table in a reasonable amount of time and have <drumroll> family time! Hooray!
quote:
teach their buddies
They do *some* of the teaching. It's *part* of their school routine, not all of it. I'm encouraging my 5 yo to "teach" his little brothers because he reinforces what he's learning that way. 
quote:
give their buddies music lessons
So, giving *one* child music lessons (once a week? twice a week? I don't know thier schedule), maybe half an hour to one hour. And that is part of school and will be counted towards the older child's academic "resume". That's bad?
quote:
get their buddies ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for the next day)
Again, with helping only one buddy, the bedtime basics wouldn't take that long. Maybe some families have a one-hour bedtime routine and a loooong bath every night. We don't. I doubt the Duggars do. I must be a really neglectful mom because I have Asrat get the boys toothbrushes down and hand them out every evening, even though I could do it myself. Brainwashing him early. And I rarely pick my 3 yo's clothes out. He can do that himself and would be tickled if I let him get into Biruk's drawer and design the next day's outfits (I definately *don't* let him do that ).
I think the Duggars have a setup that's not perfect, and not for everybody, but seems to work for them. How do you all know that Michelle doesn't go down the row of children and sniff armpits and check teeth herself, to make sure that they've been doing what they need to? How do you know that they don't enjoy thier family time more when everybody knows who's doing what and how long it will take? How do you know that she's off painting her nails while her daughters are slaving over a hot stove and playing preschool teachers?
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