RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of their sins?
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[Poll]
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Do we need to repent of our sin(s) first before we can be saved?
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Total Votes : 35
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(last vote on : 11/21/2008 12:37:25 PM)
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/22/2008 8:03:11 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Because God hadn't defined sin as such in Abraham's age, did he even know what sin was? So why are we discussing Abraham?
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 12:09:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Because God hadn't defined sin as such in Abraham's age, did he even know what sin was? So why are we discussing Abraham?
Because his faith(a gift from God) was credited to him righteousness... Which runs over your view of things... As does your view of a separate salvation for those to young or don't have the intellect to understand...
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 9:09:15 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Because his faith(a gift from God) was credited to him righteousness... That's not what Romans chapter 4 says! I do not see one single reference to God believing for Abraham, or anybody else capable of belief for that matter. Abraham allowed God to strengthen his faith. God does give faith to "those too young or don't have the intellect to understand", but Abraham was accountable for his beliefs and he chose to trust God!
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 3:06:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
That's not what Romans chapter 4 says! I do not see one single reference to God believing for Abraham, or anybody else capable of belief for that matter.
Where does faith come from?
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Abraham allowed God to strengthen his faith.
Allowed God? He does according to His will...
quote:
God does give faith to "those too young or don't have the intellect to understand", but Abraham was accountable for his beliefs and he chose to trust God!
The bible says man cannot understand things of the Spirit because they are spiritual in nature, not because he lacks intellect...
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 3:33:47 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Where does faith come from? Romans 10:17 - Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Hebr 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
So John, there it is in black and white! Faith comes from hearing the message that God exists and rewards our earnest efforts to find him. And I believe that God will reward those who are unable to understand the message due to age, intellectual capacity or other physical handicap because He alone knows the earnestness of their hearts. That is true repentance!
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Allowed God? He does according to His will... Yes, and His Will is that we have a will, too. We can will to repent or we can will to continue sinning.
quote:
The bible says man cannot understand things of the Spirit because they are spiritual in nature, not because he lacks intellect... The Bible says the unspiritual man does not accept the things of the Spirit. What does this have to do with Abraham?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 4:17:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
So John, there it is in black and white! Faith comes from hearing the message that God exists and rewards our earnest efforts to find him.
So you believe faith doesn't come from God? That which cannot and doesn't understand the things of Spirit seeks God with earnest efforts...
quote:
And I believe that God will reward those who are unable to understand the message due to age, intellectual capacity or other physical handicap because He alone knows the earnestness of their hearts. That is true repentance!
Actually it's salvation via works dressed nicely...
quote:
Yes, and His Will is that we have a will, too. We can will to repent or we can will to continue sinning.
Sorry but your view is negated by the fact that man must undergo a change... If man can will himself to that point there is no need to be made a new creature in Christ...
quote:
The Bible says the unspiritual man does not accept the things of the Spirit. What does this have to do with Abraham?
It wasn't Abraham's intellect that saved him.... And it says he cannot understand them, not simply he doesn't...
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 8:32:50 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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Intellect doesn't save us.
What we use intellect to process information can lead to saving faith.
Knowledge will never save anyone.
What we do with knowledge can have a profound effect of our eternal outcome.
As far as faith goes...faith is God's gift.
If he had never made himself known, we'd have nothing to have faith in.
lol
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 9:10:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
Intellect doesn't save us.
What we use intellect to process information can lead to saving faith.
Knowledge will never save anyone.
What we do with knowledge can have a profound effect of our eternal outcome.
Apart from the Spirit what will man's intellect do for him?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 10:09:23 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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John,
That's the point...the Spirit and intellect are in cooperation.
That's why knowledge doesn't save.
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/23/2008 11:48:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
John,
That's the point...the Spirit and intellect are in cooperation.
That's why knowledge doesn't save.
At what point?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/24/2008 6:31:29 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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John,
I don't follow your vague question.
I am however stating the The Holy Spirit works WITH man's heart. Also that The Holy Spirit works ON man's heart.
However man CAN resist The Holy Spirit.
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/24/2008 7:17:31 PM
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bob97
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quote:
However man CAN resist The Holy Spirit.
Please supply supporting scripture.
Bob
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/24/2008 8:31:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
John,
I don't follow your vague question.
I am however stating the The Holy Spirit works WITH man's heart. Also that The Holy Spirit works ON man's heart.
However man CAN resist The Holy Spirit.
So the bottom line is if man resists the work of the Holy Spirit is for naught?
So... It is intellect that saves...
You first posted...
Intellect doesn't save us.
What we use intellect to process information can lead to saving faith.
I didn't bother to point out the conflict, but since we have gotten back to it I have to ask... How can you have it both ways?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/24/2008 10:17:52 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 555
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
However man CAN resist The Holy Spirit.
Please supply supporting scripture.
Bob
Here are two specific:
Acts 7:51 Gives evidence of such.
Mark 3:29 also speaks of "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".
Explanation:
The Word Of God is how The Holy Spirit leads and teaches us. Of course I also believe that He convicts us of personal sins, etc but they are ALWAYS based upon the Word, out of which He speaks.
When one hears The Word and rejects it, he rejects the written witness of truth.
That IS resisting The Holy Spirit.
As far as knowledge goes...one must be aware of the teachings of Christianity but can be failed in their "theology" and be saved.
As far as intellect goes...one is led by The Spirit which absolutely does appeal to us on a level of intellect. Intellect I may add that God gave us.
< Message edited by FolkSingerBlues -- 9/25/2008 12:02:10 AM >
_____________________________
My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/25/2008 12:36:19 AM
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bob97
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My point is FolkSinger...if God has selected us and is drawing us to Him, any resistance on our part is imaginary.
Also the drawing by God is at some other level, it is not at the intellectual level. It defies reason.
Maybe I misread your original statement.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/25/2008 5:35:03 AM
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GodsMusic
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You must repent to be saved.
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/25/2008 7:25:47 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
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As far as repentance goes...
Is admitting sin the same thing as confessing sin?
_____________________________
My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/25/2008 8:33:06 AM
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drmark
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quote:
quote:
However man CAN resist The Holy Spirit.
Please supply supporting scripture. Acts 7:51
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/30/2008 3:01:37 PM
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greatdivide46
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So, if God demands repentance of individuals does that mean repentance saves them or does God's grace save them?
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/30/2008 3:11:41 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
So, if God demands repentance of individuals does that mean repentance saves them or does God's grace save them?
Jesus is God's grace for us. Jesus taught to repent and follow Him for salvation (belief, works and obedience). It is through God's grace that we are able to live the life we should (according to His will); the life that will ultimately end with our eternal salvation. God's grace is not to be misused as an excuse for living a perpetually ungodly life.
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God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 9/30/2008 8:34:51 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
Jesus is God's grace for us. Jesus taught to repent and follow Him for salvation (belief, works and obedience). It is through God's grace that we are able to live the life we should (according to His will); the life that will ultimately end with our eternal salvation. God's grace is not to be misused as an excuse for living a perpetually ungodly life.
Good thoughts, raivyne.
So, I guess you would say that God's grace is what saves us and not the repentance that He demands of individuals, right?
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Can someone be saved without having repented of the... - 10/1/2008 11:05:08 AM
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raivyne
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I would say that without repentance you are not truly under (or you have not fully accepted) God's grace, but you are deceiving yourself (i believe that if you are asking God to minister to you and take the control sin has over your life you would be actively seeking him and working towards the full effect of grace. IOW you would not be condemned). It is only by the grace and mercy of God that Jesus was sent to deliver us from the power sin has over our lives (not to give us permission to sin). Jesus said that he did not come to do away with the law, he came to complete it. Faith without works is dead. To fully receive grace you must accept Christ and ALL of his teachings (which include faith as evidenced by works and repentance).
Grace is so much more (IMO) than just the excusing of our sins. We are not deserving of grace, not one of us... we have all fell short of the glory of God. Out of love we have been sent an Advocate (Jesus) to wash us of our sins and free us from the power of sin in our life. We have not been given this wonderful gift to trounce all over the love of God by continually knowingly ignoring his commandments.
< Message edited by raivyne -- 10/1/2008 11:16:23 AM >
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Do we need to repent of our sin(s) first before we ... - 10/11/2008 8:19:44 AM
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nettiel
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 yes we do. we need to go to god and confess all our sins. and he is just to forgive us our sins. nettie
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RE: Do we need to repent of our sin(s) first before we ... - 10/11/2008 3:27:23 PM
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makarizo
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someone can be saved without even knowing there are specific sins in their lives.
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RE: Do we need to repent of our sin(s) first before we ... - 10/11/2008 6:57:23 PM
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bob97
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Repent of what? How does the sinner understand sin to enable repentance before the Holy Spirit indwells him? God tells us;
1Co 2:14 But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.
Romans 10:9 still says it all " If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved".
Salvation is by faith and faith only.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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