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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/15/2008 10:18:37 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 476
Joined: 7/14/2005
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Can you say GREED?
This whole mess is because of greed- the banks engaged in risky financial policies, fought tighter regulations which would have prevented this, and paid off politicians to get the Fed off their backs.
I feel sorry for those losing their jobs,and heartbroken for all of those who are losing or have lost their homes. As for those who brought this mess about, I'd love to line them up and run them down a gauntlet manned by the people who've lost everything because of their greed and arrogance.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/15/2008 10:55:42 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 335
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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I am not sure Greed is at the root of the financial problems we are facing. If anything I believe that the root of the problem lies in good intentions run amok.
It lies in politicians and financially successful people trying to "level the playing field: so that everyone could have a chance at the American dream regardless of their realistic abilities to pay for it.
I know that there are a lot of people in these forums who do not care for Rush Limbaugh, but I happened to be listening to him today and he made some interesting points.
1. Just about everything that is going wrong with the economy lately has affected institutions and regulations that were created by the goverenment, are government controled and government regulated.
2. Because these institutions were over seen by the government, thus assured of being bailed out by the government if problems arose, those running them had nothing to loose if they made bad decisions. They had little or no risk, or accountability to anyone for their bad business practices.
3. This may just be the beginning. Medicare and Social Security are government created, government controlled , and government regulated. Everyone knows, or has some idea that these institutions are in danger of collapsing and going bankrupt, but know one is being held accountable for the mis-management that is going on.
4. The mis-management going on in government created, government controlled, and government regulate institutions is much worse than what happened in Enron, but absolutely no one is being held accountable or threatened with legal action.
5. There is some degree of greed as the heads of these institutions try to "keep up with" their counterparts as far as wealth, "golden parachutes", and and material possessions are concerned.
I could be wrong.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 12:28:47 AM
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upNORTder
Posts: 220
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
I am not sure Greed is at the root of the financial problems we are facing. If anything I believe that the root of the problem lies in good intentions run amok.
It lies in politicians and financially successful people trying to "level the playing field: so that everyone could have a chance at the American dream regardless of their realistic abilities to pay for it.
I know that there are a lot of people in these forums who do not care for Rush Limbaugh, but I happened to be listening to him today and he made some interesting points.
1. Just about everything that is going wrong with the economy lately has affected institutions and regulations that were created by the goverenment, are government controled and government regulated.
2. Because these institutions were over seen by the government, thus assured of being bailed out by the government if problems arose, those running them had nothing to loose if they made bad decisions. They had little or no risk, or accountability to anyone for their bad business practices.
3. This may just be the beginning. Medicare and Social Security are government created, government controlled , and government regulated. Everyone knows, or has some idea that these institutions are in danger of collapsing and going bankrupt, but know one is being held accountable for the mis-management that is going on.
4. The mis-management going on in government created, government controlled, and government regulate institutions is much worse than what happened in Enron, but absolutely no one is being held accountable or threatened with legal action.
5. There is some degree of greed as the heads of these institutions try to "keep up with" their counterparts as far as wealth, "golden parachutes", and and material possessions are concerned.
I could be wrong.
See what happens when republicans run things for eight years.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 8:29:10 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
I know that there are a lot of people in these forums who do not care for Rush Limbaugh, but I happened to be listening to him today and he made some interesting points.
1. Just about everything that is going wrong with the economy lately has affected institutions and regulations that were created by the goverenment, are government controled and government regulated.
This is why I don't like Rush - this is only part of the story, but he spins it to make it seem like "government is bad." Fannie Mae started out as a public institution, but in 1968 it was converted into a public-private hybrid called a "government sponsored enterprise." This actually meant LESS government involvement - it was publicly supported, but privately owned. Freddie Mac was created as a GSE in 1970 to compete with Fannie Mae so that FM wouldn't have a monopoly on the secondary mortgage market.
Had FM still been a wholly governmental entity, there would have been more oversight. Had they been a publicly traded company, they would have had to publish their financial information. Neither was the case.
And no, there have been plenty of non-governmental organizations that have gone down in this mess, too.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 1:49:52 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3960
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
I am not sure Greed is at the root of the financial problems we are facing. If anything I believe that the root of the problem lies in good intentions run amok.
It lies in politicians and financially successful people trying to "level the playing field: so that everyone could have a chance at the American dream regardless of their realistic abilities to pay for it.
I know that there are a lot of people in these forums who do not care for Rush Limbaugh, but I happened to be listening to him today and he made some interesting points.
1. Just about everything that is going wrong with the economy lately has affected institutions and regulations that were created by the goverenment, are government controled and government regulated.
2. Because these institutions were over seen by the government, thus assured of being bailed out by the government if problems arose, those running them had nothing to loose if they made bad decisions. They had little or no risk, or accountability to anyone for their bad business practices.
3. This may just be the beginning. Medicare and Social Security are government created, government controlled , and government regulated. Everyone knows, or has some idea that these institutions are in danger of collapsing and going bankrupt, but know one is being held accountable for the mis-management that is going on.
4. The mis-management going on in government created, government controlled, and government regulate institutions is much worse than what happened in Enron, but absolutely no one is being held accountable or threatened with legal action.
5. There is some degree of greed as the heads of these institutions try to "keep up with" their counterparts as far as wealth, "golden parachutes", and and material possessions are concerned.
I could be wrong.
Lehman Bros, Merrill Lynch and AIG were not started by the government. Blaming govt. regulation is like blaming spanking for criminal behavior since nearly everybody in jail was spanked as a child. Govt. regulation is supposed to establish minimum standards. The argument many are making is that more regulation, not less, is indicated.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 2:10:52 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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Yeah - my husband has a 410k plan through Merril Lynch. I told him he needs to make sure and just get out now while he still can.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 3:46:45 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1032
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I don't know the specifics of the Merrill Lynch / Bank Of America deal, but it's probably better than the Lehmann bankruptcy mess. I think Bank Of America is sound.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Yeah - my husband has a 410k plan through Merril Lynch. I told him he needs to make sure and just get out now while he still can.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 3:52:58 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I don't know the specifics of the Merrill Lynch / Bank Of America deal, but it's probably better than the Lehmann bankruptcy mess. I think Bank Of America is sound.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Yeah - my husband has a 410k plan through Merril Lynch. I told him he needs to make sure and just get out now while he still can.
I HOPE so. Thats also where we have our accounts.
This is just too scary. Makes a person wonder if they shouldnt just keep their money in a sock drawer...
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 4:02:51 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1032
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Funny you should mention the sock drawer. Just yesterday, my wife said the same thing. We also bank with Bank Of America.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I don't know the specifics of the Merrill Lynch / Bank Of America deal, but it's probably better than the Lehmann bankruptcy mess. I think Bank Of America is sound.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Yeah - my husband has a 410k plan through Merril Lynch. I told him he needs to make sure and just get out now while he still can.
I HOPE so. Thats also where we have our accounts.
This is just too scary. Makes a person wonder if they shouldnt just keep their money in a sock drawer...
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 4:09:06 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Funny you should mention the sock drawer. Just yesterday, my wife said the same thing. We also bank with Bank Of America.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I don't know the specifics of the Merrill Lynch / Bank Of America deal, but it's probably better than the Lehmann bankruptcy mess. I think Bank Of America is sound.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Yeah - my husband has a 410k plan through Merril Lynch. I told him he needs to make sure and just get out now while he still can.
I HOPE so. Thats also where we have our accounts.
This is just too scary. Makes a person wonder if they shouldnt just keep their money in a sock drawer...
LOL!
I think maybe alot of people are thinking that very thing.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 5:19:15 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I don't know the specifics of the Merrill Lynch / Bank Of America deal, but it's probably better than the Lehmann bankruptcy mess. I think Bank Of America is sound.
-Dave
They are so far and that is why they are picking up some bargain banks and home loan co.s Washington Mutual OTOH I heard in the morning news is on shaky ground.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 5:56:10 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 476
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
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The mortgage mess is most certainly greed- those subprime loans were structured to ensure failure on the part of the party taking out the loans. They were marketed to people with the least financial savvy- the working poor and immigrants, including illegal aliens. Who in their right mind or with any financial sense at all would go for a loan with a ballooning interest rate? There is NO WAY that the institutions marketing these predatory lending practices didn't know what they were, and that making-the-American-Dream-available- to-everyone stuff is pure garbage.
It is speculation and usury, nothing less, and the same stuff that has gone on right before every financial collapse this country has ever had. The CEO's and boards of the financial institutions and mortgage/marketing companies ought to be stripped of their fat parachutes and the money and assets divided evenly amongst all of the employees losing their jobs and the investors who lost their nest eggs and homes. Maybe tarring and feathering them would be a fitting treatment.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 6:19:07 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 335
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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Looks like I should have stuck to my origional thought and not brought Rush Limbaugh into the discussion.
But in all fairness to Rush, his main point, as well as mine, is that the economic problems we are experiencing now, and will probably face in the future is not the fault of one administration, or one political party. It is the fault of politicians, lawyers, and economists who are mainly concerned with being liked and in power. They lay the groundwork through which everyone and anyone may supposedly afford the American dream of hownership and material possession. In the end though we all end up being buried in debt. Not just our debt but the debt of those who could not reasonably afford the American dream in the first place. Their intentions may be good but their plan is doomed to failure somewhere down the road.
No, government is not bad in of itself. Government becomes bad when one of its main purposes for existence becomes a safety net for businesses instead of a regulatory agent holding people and businesses accountable and responsible for bad busniess practices. Government becomes bad when it does not even bother to regulate and hold its own agencies and people accountable, and responsible (Social Security, Medicare).
Rush Limbaugh is not the only individual I have heard mention that the mis-management going on in the Social Security Administration and Medicare is far greater than that existed at Enron, yet very little has been done to address the situation, or the people involved.
People keep complaining about the monting debt caused by the war in Iraq. What about the mounting debt bail outs, financial unaccountability, and even greed we are leaving our descendents to pay?
The point is; not every one in America is able to afford the American dream that we have come to know and expect (as a right). Politicians seem to believe that it is the responsibility of government to "level the playing field" so every one can. That is what has caused the mess we are in, and the mess we will be in when the safety nets of welfare, medicare, and social securty collapse from the weight, and lack of funding.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 7:52:36 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
Status: offline
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How could this happen? McCain said the fundamentals of our economy are strong!
Strong, I tell you!
quote:
This is why I don't like Rush - this is only part of the story, but he spins it to make it seem like "government is bad."
Limbaugh almost never tells the whole story - just the part of it that favors his position.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 8:33:04 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1960
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Lehman Bros, Merrill Lynch and AIG were not started by the government. Blaming govt. regulation is like blaming spanking for criminal behavior since nearly everybody in jail was spanked as a child. Govt. regulation is supposed to establish minimum standards. The argument many are making is that more regulation, not less, is indicated.
Hi guys.
I am technically not allowed to identify which company I work for, but I will say that I work at a certain investment bank that either BK'd or was on the verge of BK in the past week. (I will narrow this down to two for you.) Don't worry about me; many employees at both firms still have jobs for the foreseeable future.
People at my firm took risk very seriously. We had a risk management group that ran numerous simulations every evening. Employees have a natural vested interest in making sure that the company they work for doesn't go bankrupt- moreso even than many equity holders. If our company goes out of business, 20,000 resumes will hit wall street at the same time, and we won't even get any severance.
I would be surprised if either firm's bondholders considered either firm too big to fail. (Maybe the major money center banks that are on the dow jones, but that is a different story.) Paulson's and the market's actions demonstrate that independent I-banks aren't too big to fail.
If anything, I would argue that a lack of regulation is the root cause of the problem. I am concerned that the federal government may have to bail out a major money center bank sooner rather than later, which will make previous bail-outs look like a drop in the bucket. We could have prevented all of this by maintaining the Glass-Steagall act- passed with the wisdom of those who survived the Great Depression, which we foolishly repealed in 1998. I think the capital markets worked extremely well from 1945 until ~2000, and part of the reason we avoided a lot of major hiccups was the commonsense regulations that were put in place to help prevent a future depression.
Now that those regulations are gone, it is up to human beings to manage risk, and we tend to underestimate risk right at the top of the market. No matter how seriously we take it, we will probably keep taking scarier risks until the depression-era regulations are restored.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/16/2008 8:37:39 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1960
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I feel sorry for those losing their jobs,and heartbroken for all of those who are losing or have lost their homes. As for those who brought this mess about, I'd love to line them up and run them down a gauntlet manned by the people who've lost everything because of their greed and arrogance.
The folks who "caused" this mess are getting hurt the most. Most of the mortgage traders have been laid off. And most investment bankers had half their life savings in their companies. Everybody got hurt by the credit crisis- especially the bankers. Perhaps the only winners might be a few hedge funds.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 12:17:42 AM
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relady
Posts: 1279
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Makes a person wonder if they shouldnt just keep their money in a sock drawer... Under the mattress is sounding better all the time.
quote:
The CEO's and boards of the financial institutions and mortgage/marketing companies ought to be stripped of their fat parachutes and the money and assets divided evenly amongst all of the employees losing their jobs and the investors who lost their nest eggs and homes. My 76 year old mom said almost these very words this weekend, LOL. I agree.
quote:
If anything, I would argue that a lack of regulation is the root cause of the problem. Agreed, heartily.
quote:
We could have prevented all of this by maintaining the Glass-Steagall act- passed with the wisdom of those who survived the Great Depression, which we foolishly repealed in 1998. I think the capital markets worked extremely well from 1945 until ~2000, and part of the reason we avoided a lot of major hiccups was the commonsense regulations that were put in place to help prevent a future depression . So that's when it happened, eh? I KNEW some regulations had at least been lessened but wasn't sure when it happened. Let's see....who was running Congress in 1998??? Oh yeah, the Republican had a stranglehold on both houses and mostly never met anything they didn't want to deregulate!
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 8:00:09 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 462
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
The mortgage mess is most certainly greed- those subprime loans were structured to ensure failure on the part of the party taking out the loans. They were marketed to people with the least financial savvy- the working poor and immigrants, including illegal aliens. Who in their right mind or with any financial sense at all would go for a loan with a ballooning interest rate?
The people you described were a minority percentage of subprime loans. The majority of the loans went to people that, at the time, knew what they were doing, understood the loans. People that took the risk of the loan with the thinking that they could either get a better loan down the road or wouldn't be in need of the loan in a few years.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 8:11:20 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 462
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: online
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And those that think this can be blamed on a particualr Party are being vey naive.
Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 8:21:19 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2944
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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Meanwhile, how do you all like owning an insurance company and a mortgage firm? In the next few weeks perhaps we'll all own some airlines?
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 8:22:39 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
If anything, I would argue that a lack of regulation is the root cause of the problem. I am concerned that the federal government may have to bail out a major money center bank sooner rather than later, which will make previous bail-outs look like a drop in the bucket. We could have prevented all of this by maintaining the Glass-Steagall act- passed with the wisdom of those who survived the Great Depression, which we foolishly repealed in 1998. I think the capital markets worked extremely well from 1945 until ~2000, and part of the reason we avoided a lot of major hiccups was the commonsense regulations that were put in place to help prevent a future depression.
Now that those regulations are gone, it is up to human beings to manage risk, and we tend to underestimate risk right at the top of the market. No matter how seriously we take it, we will probably keep taking scarier risks until the depression-era regulations are restored.
You put what I was thinking down and a lot more eloquently than I ever could. If a companies greed is not controlled in some way then we end up with the federal government (ahem, taxpayers) having to bail out our financial boat to keep it afloat.
Conservatives don't believe in welfare unless its for our financial or insurance conglomerates. I'm not saying that the bailout shouldn't be done but there needs to be controls put in place to keep this from happening again!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Lehman Bros. bankrupt, Merril Lynch sold... - 9/17/2008 9:10:21 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3960
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Meanwhile, how do you all like owning an insurance company and a mortgage firm? In the next few weeks perhaps we'll all own some airlines?
I'm adjusting. But you people living in the gulf area can forget any notion about me writing a homeowners policy.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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