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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 4:46:32 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Apparently we choose to have urges in some people's minds. It's actually interesting stuff to research...but maybe that's because that's what I'm researching right now!
I wonder if there is a parallel to autism -- a deeply-embedded sinful inclination that can become overpowering apart from God's special grace.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 8:24:16 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Back when Sandy Patti was having the affair radio stations quit playing her music until she went through some sort of restoration, I wonder if they will do the same for Ray. Good question. I know some stations in Indiana (where Patti grew up) that still will not play her recordings and probably never will. They also will not play Michael English.
Perhaps in their eyes there is no restoration.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 8:43:52 AM
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Kath
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There cannot be any restoration on his part till he rejects this lifestyle.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 10:33:26 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
There cannot be any restoration on his part till he rejects this lifestyle.
Exactly!
Paul threw one out of a church for refusal to reject his openly sexual sin, "to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
How can we embrace soneone today that not only is open about his perversion but claims the blessings of God on his lifestyle?
Is there nothing we won't tolerate among the celebrities in our midst?????
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 10:39:27 AM
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tafkam
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I love the claim that "Well, God made me this way, so I'm not condemned for it".
Well, we're ALL born into sin, so in effect we can ALL say that God made us this way.
So if I have a predisposition to be promiscuous, then I guess I can sleep with whoever I want, because God made me that way. Likewise for stealing, or dishonesty, or any Scriptural standard you care to name.
We are all "born this way" with regard to our sin nature. We make the CHOICE to turn from it in order to follow God.
Why is this so hard to understand?
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 10:55:45 AM
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gtrdave
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Back when Sandy Patti was having the affair radio stations quit playing her music until she went through some sort of restoration, I wonder if they will do the same for Ray. Good question. I know some stations in Indiana (where Patti grew up) that still will not play her recordings and probably never will. They also will not play Michael English.
Perhaps in their eyes there is no restoration.
It is sad if a form of condemnation occurs even after repentance, but it's also a reality that the music business perpetually moves forward and much of the music of some of these past-successful acts is 'dated' and has been replaced by many other artists performing music (albeit with similar themes) that is more culturally relevant to today's market.
Ray Boltz, Michael English, First Call, Terry MacAlmon, Lamar Boschman...these are not big players in modern pop-CCM, imho, but all of them could offer a powerful testimony of repentance and restoration if they choose to put God first.
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RE: Ray Boltz - GAY?... - 9/17/2008 11:45:47 AM
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rockitd
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I am definitely praying for Ray Boltz's restoration in Christ. To leave your family of 33 years for a "lifestyle" is just terrible for all of those involved. When I was in college, a friend let me hear his tape "Watch the Lamb". I was really touched by it and other songs over the years like "The Hammer", "The Anchor Holds", "Thank You", and "I Pledge Allegience to the Lamb".
People would be very suprised by the lifestyles of their favorite preacher or singer. The very Psalmist King David committed adultery and murder, but he REPENTED.
We are in a new era where we have the blood of Christ to bring us redemption, but it does not excuse us from a lifestyle of sin. Gifts do not justify us before God...His blood shed for us and our walk in Him does.
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:7-9, italics and emphasis mine)
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/17/2008 2:51:12 PM
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Kath
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gtrdave
Ray Boltz, Michael English, First Call, Terry MacAlmon, Lamar Boschman...these are not big players in modern pop-CCM, imho, but all of them could offer a powerful testimony of repentance and restoration if they choose to put God first.
Please do not say First Call, it was Marabeth Jordan of First Call. They moved to replace her immediately when the whole thing came to light.
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"It's going to be bad around here when the cows come home to roost."
Dilbert's TRUE QUOTES FROM INDUHVIDUALS
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/18/2008 1:25:02 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
That's why I made the comment I did earlier about researching what causes our urges...
The Bible is fairly clear where those urges originate and the cure for them. Had the man known the One he wrote about, his story would have a different ending.
I think it's pretty clear to anybody who's taken a freshman-level biology or psychology course that some urges are a result of certain brain activity, be it chemical or otherwise. It's also a sin to act violently towards people, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been cases of people experiencing bouts of uncontrollable rage after suffering traumatic brain injuries. Since entire personalities can change given the right damage, I have no doubt whatsoever that certain sexual urges can be at least partly influenced by unintentional brain activity.
What he's doing isn't right and I hope he turns around.
-Dan.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/18/2008 10:31:15 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
...I think it's pretty clear to anybody who's taken a freshman-level biology or psychology course that some urges are a result of certain brain activity, be it chemical or otherwise...Since entire personalities can change given the right damage, I have no doubt whatsoever that certain sexual urges can be at least partly influenced by unintentional brain activity.
Are you saying that God condemns someone and declares their activity an abomination for something outside their control... and that Paul was inadequate in biology or psychology when he wrote in great length describing such activity as intentional perversion and that God has given them over to a reprobate mind?
Baaaad Paul. Baaaad biblical writers.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/18/2008 10:40:37 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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Folks, we have an entire thread devoted to the whys and whatfors of homosexuality.
Please use that thread if you want to discuss that further.
Let's keep this thread focused on Ray.
Thanks!
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/18/2008 11:26:13 AM
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gtrdave
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
ORIGINAL: gtrdave
Ray Boltz, Michael English, First Call, Terry MacAlmon, Lamar Boschman...these are not big players in modern pop-CCM, imho, but all of them could offer a powerful testimony of repentance and restoration if they choose to put God first.
Please do not say First Call, it was Marabeth Jordan of First Call. They moved to replace her immediately when the whole thing came to light.
Understood, but I figured if I'd just said "Marabeth Jordan", others would say "who?". Still, the band felt the effects of her sins and all of the members, including ex-members, can share a valuable testimony based on their experiences.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:23:23 PM
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MyCatSmokey2006
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When I read about this in another forum, I was like, "OH MY ...!" "HE IS A WHAT?!" My first impulse was to throw away my Ray Boltz CD's, but then I realized some things:
1. All of us are sinners.
2. Jesus died for all of us.
3. Jesus told us not to judge others, lest we also be judged with the same standards that we use to judge others.
4. Jesus also said to remove the plank out of our own eyes before removing the splinter out of other people's eyes.
5. He also said to the crowd of people who wanted to stone the adultress woman, "let he who is without sin, throw a stone at her first."
While it may be true that what Mr. Boltz is doing is an abomnible sin in the eyes of God, we are not qualified to judge him for being deceived into believing that it's okay to do it. We all have some weak area of our lives that could give us problems if we let it rule over us. For example, I have problems with eating too many high carb foods and sweets at times. I can either let my emotional hunger master me and give into my intense cravings to eat two cups of M&M's, or I can choose to feed upon the Living Word and Water of Life.
Either way, it's a choice. Instead of condemning Mr. Boltz, we need to pray for him to realize his sin and repent of it.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:37:20 PM
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humbleinspirit
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I am just getting back after many days of being away. Now something is bothering me, why would people stop singing or listening to his songs? I can see for maybe testimony reasons, however I am sure all of his songs were to bring glory to God.
I still like the song Thank You and still plan on listening to it in the future. Do we follow man or God instead? Just something that I needed to get off my chest.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:42:59 PM
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jwsduran
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Because his songs are tainted. If I continue to listen to his cd, I am reminded of his sinning still. Chocolate cake is good to eat but if there was mud added to it would not be as appealing. Same for Ray's songs. He doesn't worship God in Spirit & Truth and therefore his songs are worthless as longs as Ray remains in this state.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:46:09 PM
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humbleinspirit
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I'm not, I do not feel that they are tainted. We all fall short of the glory of God, and his songs can and still minister. Amy Grant's Thy Word still ministers. When being in a car with some unbelievers about 20 years ago, we were listening to a Mike Warnke tape, and the spirit was there in the car too. A deep reverence and conviction came down. And yet some of us know of the accusations against him also.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:46:31 PM
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jwsduran
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We can judge Him. As long as I am not homosexual, I can turn away from Ray as the Bible says to do. God says from such turn away from. It's like Christians are I am ok you're ok. God says as much as given, as much you will answer for. Ray is leading many away. A Sheep in Wolf's clothing.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/19/2008 11:49:20 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Woe neally! He is a wolf in sheeps clothing? I do not see it that way at all. I see that he has been struggling with this sin and just finally said "I give up!" Christians have struggles where that happens too. Sometimes when that happens, it ultimately works for the good because then God can convict and bring you back as opposed to being double minded or lukewarm instead.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/20/2008 9:38:52 AM
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makarizo
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Ray has given sooooo much glory to God, He has been used by God in a calling that is very rare,.... the gift he was given has been used to honor God. the meaning of his songs are not nullified by this confession (unless you are seeking to justify homosexuality).
he is trapped in a sin. .... God did not need Ray's help, nor did He need validation that Ray was anything more than a man who wrote songs.
if psalms has any inspiration..... just remember Uriah the Hittite.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/20/2008 9:40:00 AM
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humbleinspirit
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Well said Makarizo.
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/20/2008 1:12:42 PM
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GregandJenny
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Praying that Ray is set free!
Father free Ray and let Your word Lord Jesus move His hard back to you. I know Father you are waiting for him to come home and I pray for his expedient return.
Amen
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/20/2008 9:32:00 PM
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Kath
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Melissa, did you check out his own website? Someone linked to it in this thread.
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"It's going to be bad around here when the cows come home to roost."
Dilbert's TRUE QUOTES FROM INDUHVIDUALS
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RE: pray for Ray Boltz... - 9/20/2008 11:44:16 PM
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gaylel1
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I'm saddened and shocked to hear about Ray Boltz. My prayers are with him and I pray that he does truly repents of his sin. I agree with everyone, he has been used by God to minister and yes, he had a promising career. However, when people fall, you wonder sometimes was he accountable to a pastor and brothers in the church? Somewhere along the way, he has made this choice which disapointed God.
This is one of the reasons why we need to pray for our high profile artists in CCM, gospel and other Christian music genres, and at the same time, we need to pray for these artists to be acccountable with their fellow brothers and sisters to keep them from falling into things which the world often temps them.
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