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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/4/2008 7:55:45 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
quote]quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Yes. America sits as Queen of the Babylonion System.
It would certainly make sense that America would reign over B.S. Sorry, too tempting to pass up.
Don't be sorry! IT was funny. You always are. 
quote:
Why do we care? If we are, meh. If we aren't, meh. In the big picture it doesn't really matter.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
That's not what the Bible tells us. In Revelations also it says to "come up out of here, my people"
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
How can we proceed to do that if we don't think:::
a)It is Important? It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I find that curious that a WHOLE book is shrugged off. Along with other books that talk about the end.times Daniels, etc.
b) that the end will ever come. "" It's been going on for 1000's of years"" is what I usually hear. No it has not been going on for 1000's of years!!! Israel in Home land?
'nuff said.
c) that Christians who even want to talk about these books are crazy. Or a Tim Layhaye ...................whatever.
No one can see the connections?
With America and Babylon? Or Babylonion system?
Queen of it?
The military bases, the money, the Wars, we're in Babylon's ancient city, 9/11.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
How can we keep the sayings if no one cares?
I don't get that.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/4/2008 10:50:53 AM
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stellaluna
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I'm not shrugging off an entire book. I'm saying it is possible to get so caught up in "the end times" that it consumes one. God has plenty for us to do in the here and now, without worrying about when it will end.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/20/2008 10:52:31 PM
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SonicStudent
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I have to agree with many on here that say it is a mistake when we try to pin Mystery Babylon on a particular nation. I think the word 'mystery' here is a very big key on how we should think about her identity.
When we look at the original Babylon, what was God really displeased with? The then nations and powers came together with one unified spirit to do what? Not build a tower! The tower was the statement! A statement for what? In saying to God that they were building a society 'seperate' from what God had ordained!
They had religious ideas and false gods that were seperate from God's truth, or in other words, 'different methods of justification that were man made and not of the truth'!
They'd built a society that they were governing 'away' from and seperate from God's laws and God's truths.
Why did they do all this. They wanted a world that their own pride had built, seperate from anything that was of God or to do with God. They were commiting the first sin and Satan's sin. To rise up into the heavens and be as gods, or even as God.
This is the mystery as I understand it. This is the harlot. The spirit of pride against the authority, truth and true worship of God, and here, at the very end of this age, that desire that has been seen in every empire throughout history finally comes together. All nations working together, compromising God's truth to be able to set up a new order, a new religion. Rising up as a tower of pride against God as they reject either literally, or by compromising the truth for the purposes of 'unifying the world in a kind of peace'.
Here we see the unified world under a global agreement to create a religious system that compromises it's own truth for the purposes of a kind of peace. And a unified political power structure made up of the major powers that in essence rejects God's truths. A system of acceptance at any cost where basic biblical truths are compromised, proberbly forced to come together because of global instabilities.
So I believe that the Mystery that has always been babylon, is the spirit of the pride and rejection that the original Babylon typified.
Mystery Babylon is the inner religious and political structure of the final world empire that has risen itself up against God in its pride to say it is now its own creator, it's own saviour and its own governer!
If you want to read this mystery in the hearts of all the world powers and leaders and kings throughout history, we don't need to read 10,000 history books. Just meditate on Psalm 2. The spirit is there, and also what God thinks of it, and its outcome, but more importantly, the escape method by which we flee from it. The last couple of verses telss us to embrase Christ and trust in Him and we will escape it's judgement and be safe!
Cheers everyone and God bless.
Sonic
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/20/2008 10:58:03 PM
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SonicStudent
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Psalm 2
1 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall £break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/21/2008 10:51:54 AM
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bob97
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Good stuff Sonic…
I believe you have captured the essences of the subject…when the majority believes that they don’t need God and this world economic mess sure seems to be bringing it all together.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/21/2008 4:39:48 PM
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SonicStudent
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Thanks Bob and hello to you.
I believe that this has been Satan's plan from day one in the garden.
It seemed simple to Adam n' Eve and no great sin I'm sure. It might have even seemed reasonable at the time to them after Satan had twisted the truth. But it was only after they would have realized the significance and depth of their sin in the garden. If Satan had said, 'Reject Gods law, and by the way, you can become God yourself and establish your own law and position apart from God'. There would have been 'NO WAY' they would have taken a bite. But Satan always finds a way to make it seem right, taste ok and reasonable.
The world throughout history has built empires. Once those empires become world dominating, the leaders grow proud within their own strength and begin to desire deity and separation from the restricting laws of God. They begin to create their own system, usually compromising truth into immorality. They grow cold of heart, cruel and believe they are mighty enough to be their own rulers without the need for God. Setting up their own multi deity systems of self-righteousness. A tailored religious system that denies God and steels His Glory. This is when God steps in and puts an end to that empire. It was true in Babylon and in Greece, Egypt, Syria, Rome and all others. Satan trying to establish a world dominating Godless law and religious system through the hearts of men, but has failed just short every time. He started it in the garden and has tried again and again throughout history and in every empire that man builds, only cut short as each empire has been guilty of trying to destroy the people of God. As always happens, as the proud empires of men are at odds with the people of God. And God destroys each empire that ends up in this condition, and undoes Satan's plan to rule the hearts of the whole earth with an empire of men that has rejected God's law and set up their own brand of self justificating religious system.
This is what happened when men came together with this purpose at the very start in Babylon, and continued throughout history. In its process attempted to destroy God's people and truth.
This is the Mystery that is Babylon. And it finds it's final (and for a short time) victorious one world, anti God system in the final empire that we await.
I don't know about you, but I see it building every day, when I hear and see the world leaders establishing their world order by compromise to enable agreement between the nations. Compromise on morality (even in certain state churches), compromise on laws etc.
I believe this cause will increase fast as troubles build and an answer is needed for security of the nations.
A one world system (at least the most powerful nations) of government and a one world religious unified religion where most faiths come together under a banner of compromising their truths. Which would never stick for long, a very shaky structure indeed.
God must destroy it, because it's 'the lie'!!! In everything it stands for, it seems right, but is the greatest Lie of all times.
Stay blessed, Sonic
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/22/2008 12:44:13 AM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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Yes Sonic and the outcome of this election could signal the real beginning of the end. I have never seen such a tendency of the American people to blindly reject common sense and be willing to believe a lie. And it’s not just America; the rest of the world is just as willing to believe the same lie.
"Even the elect will be deceived".
I really hope I’m wrong and that people will return to sanity…we’ll just have to wait and see.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/22/2008 2:53:54 AM
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SonicStudent
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I see Bob!
I'm ashamed to say I know very little about the American elections this time round being British. Maybe you could fill me in on who stands for what! And what the implications are?
I don't want to turn this thread into politics, so if you like, email this answer to me at; mark.hughes67@tiscali.co.uk,
Many thanks
Sonic (mark)
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/22/2008 11:51:50 AM
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eschatologist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Is the United States potentially Mystery Babylon - the second Babylon in the Bible, during the end times that gets destroyed. ...If I am not mistaken, it is described as a dominant world power that is a fallen Christian nation (a Christian nation at one time, but one that has been corrupted), one based heavily on commerce/trade (such as capitalism), with people of a multitude of languages and backgrounds (we have those in the U.S. now in the form of racial minorities), surrounded by waters (we have oceans on three sides of our country), and one that is proud....
I knowsome have argued it was Rome, because of the same qualities and also because of the description of it sitting on seven hills, but there is also argument it has not yet happend and Mystery Babylon remains to be seen and destroyed. Is the U.S. a possibility?
"Mystery, Babylon the Great , the mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth" is the Spiritual Force of evil that reigns over all the nations of the world throughout history from the beginning of time till the end of time when Jesus comes back and the whore is destroyed. This spiritual force of evil is summed up by the Apostle John in his first epistle: "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passeth away and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." This spiritual force of evil is what causes men to want to kill each other for money greed and power.
The whore of revelations 17 is Pictured sitting on the back of a scarlet colored beast, This beast has 7 heads and ten horns. The seven heads represent the seven world empires that have reigned over the world throughout time, including Egypt, Babylon, Media, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the final Antichrist one world government which hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and will only continue for a short time. (3 1/2 years, to be exact) The ten horns on the beast represent ten nations (or kings, as the bible calls them) who "give their heart and soul to the beast." In revelations 13 it says the beast is personified in a man whom we know to be the antichrist, who takes over the world and causes everybody to have to worship him and making everybody take a mark in their right hand or forehead so that no man might buy or sell or earn a living unless they worship this beast and take his mark. What all this is saying is that the last world empire is a continuation of all the world empires of man, in all their greed and lust for power and glory and money and riches, man's last attempt to usurp the power of God and create their own little physical kingdom on earth.
Jesus taught against this spiritual force of greed , power and glory when He said, "Take no thought (Don't worry about) what ye shall eat or wherewithall ye shall be clothed, for all these things do the nations of the world seek after. But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you."
So in Revelations it says that all the world wondered after the beast. The whole world of sinful man is going to fall down and worship the beast and the dragon which gave power unto the beast. The dragon we know is the devil and he's also pictured having seven heads and ten horns. This is merely showing that the devil has always been the one in control of all the world empires including the antichrist when he totally possesses the antichrist. So in worshipping the antichrist people are really worshipping the devil. The ten nations who give their heart and soul to the antichrist are not the only nations who follow the antichrist. It just means that the bulk of the antichrist's military might that he uses to take over the world and to kill anyone who dares to not cooperate, will come from these ten major nations.
In revelations 17 it says, "For in her (the whore) was found the blood of saints and of martyrs and of all that were slain upon the earth." This would include the murder of Abel by his brother Cain to all the ones killed by the antichrist government during the endtime period. But then we have a twist on things. It "says the ten horns shall hate the whore and shall burn her with fire." Since the ten horns are ten nations who give their heart and soul the the antichrist, how can they burn the whore with fire if the whore is a spiritual force of evil. It sounds like the whore is epitomized by a physical place or country during the endtime period when the antichrist is in power. After these ten nations burn her with fire it says that many merchants of the earth will stand afar off and look at the smoke of her burning and will mourn her because no man buys their merchandise any more and they can't make any money. So, what nation in today's modern world do most nations of the world try to sell their goods to and who become rich if they make it in that country? In today's modern world, the dog-eat-dog society in which we live where nations compete with each other to buy and sell goods and make money from the world stock markets to the little mom and pop shops, people are continuing to seek for wealth and power and glory. And in so doing they are committing spiritual fornication with the whore of Babylon.
So why, all of a sudden, do the ten nations who collaborate with the beast decide they don't want this whore riding on their backs any more? Why do they hate her? They want to get the whore off their backs. Well, for one it says that the Lord has put it in their hearts to hate the whore and to destroy her in order to fulfill His will. But, also, remember, the antichrist sets up his own economic system where everybody has to take his mark and worship him or they won't be able to buy or sell or make a living, or feed their families, etc. In order to set up this system he has to get rid of the present day dog-eat-dog system of competing with each other in the buying and selling of stocks, property and goods of every kind throughout the world. The ups and downs of the present day economic system is tied to what happens in the United States. The U,S. also has a list of countries they will trade with and a list of countries who are on a blacklist and if countries and people want to trade with the U.s. they have to cooperate and do what the U.S. wants. This is how the Biggest economic power of this modern world controls the markets and the world economy. But the ten nations will get tired of the U.S. bullying them around and so will destroy her with fire, probably with nuclear weapons. This will cause a total collapse of the world- wide economic system which will give way to the antichrists economic system of worship the devil and take his mark or die. Of course this will start the great tribulation when all the worlds Christians will have to hide out in the wilderness from the face of the antichrist and his armies., until Jesus comes back to rescue them.
In Daniel 11 it says, "and the ships of Chittim shall come against him (the antichrist) But they shall be broken without hand." The ships of Chittim refers to the british Isles which in todays modern political world means England, the U.S. and their allies. So the United States will come against the Antichrist but the A.C. will destroy them. This might also be when the U.S. Is burned with fire by Nuclear bombs.
There's more to this, but that's all I have time for at the moment.
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/25/2008 1:04:55 PM
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br0k3nsp1r1t2
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I'm having a real hard time seeing how America is the Bablyon described in Revelations. I just don't see it. There may be a day in the future when America could be "Babylon", but I don't see how it could be at this point in time. I certainly do believe that the sin filled nature of human existence does make up all that Babylon is, but even at that, I can't see how it could be gleaned that America IS Babylon.
Granted we are a very wealthy nation in so many ways, but that is not all that the ugly Babylon of the Bible is! Granted we do have many fleshly ideals that are supported by law .... abortion comes to mind right off the bat! But there are many in this country who continue to strive for change in such laws that we know are not pleasing to God.
And with that in my mind, there are far worse cultures and societies that exist today. (I thank God every day that I wasn't born anywhere else on earth!) For instance, there are nations in existence today whose ideologies and laws would have me put to death just because I am a Christian! And there are nations with ideologies and laws that exist today where I would be forced to endure being treated as some low class, ill-rated human being just because I am a woman! In my mind, these are all "Babylonian" characteristics and traits too! And these do not exist in America.
And I am also having a hard time believing that America has deceived all the nations by "sorcery"? (Rev 18:23) What "sorcery"? Have we not been favored by God from the day our founding fathers determined to create a nation and government built upon Christian principles and values? I believe this nation has been blessed by God. I fear we may be losing His blessing for Godly principles, truths and values are literally dying a slow death in this nation (as far as I can see) and that would be expected as the end draws ever nearer.... but still, that hardly draws me to conclude that America is now all that the Babylon of the Bible is described to be.
In my opinion there are other nations much further along in that ugly Babylonian description already. For instance, there are nations (and people groups) that exist today who literally profess a desire to annihilate Israel! Well, that is not America! But isn't that hate filled mindset also the mindset you can glean would exist in the Babylon of the Bible that does fall?
And if that's not enough to confuse me - here's one - if America is the mystery Babylon, I hardly see Iran, let alone all the other nations that hate this country so, lamenting over our destruction!
Hmmmm, nope, the idea that America is the mystery Babylon just doesn't fit the bigger picture in my mind's eye.
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/25/2008 10:34:21 PM
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SonicStudent
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I think (and I've said it before) that we should look more closely at what the original Babylon stood for and what God was more concerned about. When God came and took a look at the situation surrounding the coming together of the surrounding powerful peoples and their building of a tower that was to reach into the heavens. It was their hearts desire that was the problem.
God here doesn't seem to be tackling the issue of their murdering or general evil behaviour. He seems to be recognising their desire to build a system that denies God's authority at its very core. And their desire to create a self made religion that provides their own method of justification and righteousness outside the truth.
In other words, the peoples saw how powerful they could be on the earth if they joined together. They got so proud, that they began to believe that they could bypass God and his laws and in a way believed that they could become their own gods, with their own authority on the earth apart from God.
It says they made bricks for stone and asphalt for mortar;
3Then they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. Stone represents their determination to build a kingdom not of God, with their own law system which is rebellion towards God's kingdom.
The word asphalt here is the same word Moses used when talking about the tar that Noah's ark was covered with for protection against the flood. It's also the same word used when talking about the ark that Moses was placed in as a baby in Egypt, it was covered with a tar. Also it is the same word used when talking about the atoning blood in the tabernacle. So what the mortar mentioned here is, is actually their own system of atonement, or their own system of justification. Noah's ark, as you know is a type of Christ and the tar was its atonement for those inside to be safe from the judgement. As it was for Moses in the basket as a baby, and the blood in the sacrificial system was atonement.
Here, they were building an empire that would control all the meek of the earth that was not built on the truth, but on a proud, humanistic lie, ran by powerful evil men that wanted to take control from God and become gods, and in doing so, fulfilling (whether they knew it or not) Satan’s wish, and Satan's own original sin. In fact Adam and Eve's original sin, as Satan had tricked Adam n' Eve, here he tricks these evil proud hearts.
Satan has been trying to create an empire that controlled the whole earth right through history. Which is why we see him tempting Jesus by offering him the nations of the earth.
Mystery Babylon I believe is mans desire and will and attempts to build this world dominating empire separate from God's rule, law and salvation system. Every empire that grew huge, ended up having the desire to world dominate, from start to finish. Rome, Greece, Babylon and so on.
Finally, we have the technology to 'in a sense' all communicate as we did when we spoke with the same tongue - The World Wide Web communicates across the tongues and nations.
There is a real effort (mostly behind the scenes, but this is now more open) to let go of currency, Sovereignty, borders, laws etc, to create a world order.
This is the sin of mystery Babylon. It's the mystery behind Babylon! Mans desire to take God's place and become their own gods. And the deception and evil involved in doing this is nothing short of satanic.
Don't look for a particular evil nation guilty of the worst crimes, (although i'm sure it would end up that way once in place) Because it would have a form of godliness (seem to be moral in its law and ethic code) But deny God's power at it's core. You'll find good deeds and laws that control for the good of its willing inhabitants, with seemingly good policies. But what you won’t find there is God's laws being preached, taught or embraced. Nor will you find Christ being accepted or preached with it! 'A form of godliness, but denying it's power'!!!
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 10/26/2008 12:37:38 AM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/30/2008 11:15:17 AM
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Diolectic
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Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (Ref. Rev 12:3, Rev 13:1)
Why was John taken to the "Wilderness"?
Because that is where the woman was last seen.
Rev 17::2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (Ref. Eze 16:26 You have also committed fornication with the Egyptians your very fleshly neighbors; and hast increased thy vvhoredoms, to provoke me to anger.)
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days.
Who are the They?
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a male child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
As Israel is in the wilderness (scattered) She begins to play the h@rlot, again.
The Thing "upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
This was as a seal on her forehead.
Just as the other seals are on the foreheads for us with the Holy Spirit and the world with their mark of the Beast.
Israel was in Babylon before, and she still is spiritually.
Why was she in Babylon?
Because of disobedience and playing the h@rlot.
Israel has Babylons mark on her forehead and a seal of ownership.
********************************************************************************
Furthermore, Who is the only one in Scripture who has killed the Prophets?
Who are decked in gold and colorful garment, but the priests & High priests.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Exo 28:5-9 And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. :6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. :7 It shall have the two shoulder pieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. :8 And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. :9 And you shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel: and 39:1-29
Jer 4:30-31 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though you clothed your self with crimson, though you decked yourself with ornaments of gold, though you rented your face with painting, in vain you shall make yourself fair; your lovers will despise you, they will seek your life. 31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that brings forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewails herself, that spreads her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers 1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:)
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (See note for v.9 Ref. Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.)
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Mat 23:34-37 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: :35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. :36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. :37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that kills the prophets, and stones them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 11:47-51 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchers of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. :48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchers. :49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: :50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Act 7:58-60 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. :59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. :60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.)
:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.
Note: I believe that John Marveled because he was shocked as you are.
< Message edited by Diolectic -- 10/30/2008 11:40:34 AM >
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 10/30/2008 2:44:29 PM
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Ninjaearth
Posts: 97
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Hyattsville, Maryland
Status: offline
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As a student of prophecy, I find it interesting and, excuse the humor, when people conclude that America has any connection to Babylon of Revelation (or is Babylon). I say that's funny because to automatically assume that America actually has a place in Bible prophecy is absolutely wrong. The revealed Word of God is silent on America; for obvious reasons, it wasn't there yet. However, neither is many other nations to say the least. The argument that American doesn't play a major role in the end time events is completely from silence as well as what we learn from the book itself as well as in the connecting passages in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and Isaiah. Also, Mystery Bablyon, I think deals both a religous and political system ruled by the Antichrist and the false prophet. Taking a step back, any event after the rapture, assuming all events after Revelation chapter 3, is the highlight for the last years of earth. The way I like to think about it is that Revelation is a bigger picture of both Daniel's prophecy and Matthew 24 magnified to reveal the details about the end days. If that is the case then we know America wouldn't be included. Besides, even if it did (hypothetically) America most likely would be destroyed immediately after the rapture and if not immediately then probably within the first four seals, eliminating it as a nation for or even against the Antichrist.
_____________________________
"Spiritual Soldier Ninjaearth"
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/4/2008 11:53:29 PM
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19ramman85
Posts: 115
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ninjaearth
As a student of prophecy, I find it interesting and, excuse the humor, when people conclude that America has any connection to Babylon of Revelation (or is Babylon). I say that's funny because to automatically assume that America actually has a place in Bible prophecy is absolutely wrong. The revealed Word of God is silent on America; for obvious reasons, it wasn't there yet. However, neither is many other nations to say the least. The argument that American doesn't play a major role in the end time events is completely from silence as well as what we learn from the book itself as well as in the connecting passages in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and Isaiah. Also, Mystery Bablyon, I think deals both a religous and political system ruled by the Antichrist and the false prophet. Taking a step back, any event after the rapture, assuming all events after Revelation chapter 3, is the highlight for the last years of earth. The way I like to think about it is that Revelation is a bigger picture of both Daniel's prophecy and Matthew 24 magnified to reveal the details about the end days. If that is the case then we know America wouldn't be included. Besides, even if it did (hypothetically) America most likely would be destroyed immediately after the rapture and if not immediately then probably within the first four seals, eliminating it as a nation for or even against the Antichrist.
My sentiments, exactly!
-charles
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/11/2008 11:50:17 AM
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jerowhy
Posts: 42
Joined: 10/14/2008
Status: offline
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Regarding the city called Babylon the 'great': we see that there are 7 princes or spiritual dark powers that fell with lucifer who are given an agreement by God's Word to be able exercise some authority over all of the nations and Empires that will exist up until the completion of God's Words to fulfillment in the culminating seven year period preceeding the Coming of The Messiah to Reign along with His Priests (chosen from out of all peoples of all nations, languages, or tribes) at Jerusalem. For our struggle is not of any national or flag flier allowance of any people's design (yet, there is a time for everything is Scriptural); but we wrestle in prayer and petition the Spiritual Holy War to overcome in route to attainment of the High Calling of God through the Grace that was given by Faith in the Son of God; the Right Hand of God and The Power of God. This is Our duty in Christ to submit ourselves to face the trials given by Grace in The Life for our Purification, Sanctification, and Refinement (as a flood will the war be were some of the Wise will stumble to be refined as has been continuing to occur as written) to be made conformed into The Likeness of a New Creation found in Christ as remaining and abiding in sup (My Bread is to do The Will of The Father; that Freedom found in Christ for whatever We do, We do for The Lord) and that He would prepare a place for Us making His Home to be with Us forever. This is our Holy War. We do not fight with weapons of worldly design. Not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit says The Lord. When He comes He will convict the world with regard to sin, Righteousness (that comes by faith through the sowing of peace; the Fruits of the Indwelling of God's Word yielding a harvest), and Judgement (all Judgement has been entrusted to The Son). The Prince of the world stands condemned; the infidel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 19ramman85
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ninjaearth
As a student of prophecy, I find it interesting and, excuse the humor, when people conclude that America has any connection to Babylon of Revelation (or is Babylon). I say that's funny because to automatically assume that America actually has a place in Bible prophecy is absolutely wrong. The revealed Word of God is silent on America; for obvious reasons, it wasn't there yet. However, neither is many other nations to say the least. The argument that American doesn't play a major role in the end time events is completely from silence as well as what we learn from the book itself as well as in the connecting passages in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and Isaiah. Also, Mystery Bablyon, I think deals both a religous and political system ruled by the Antichrist and the false prophet. Taking a step back, any event after the rapture, assuming all events after Revelation chapter 3, is the highlight for the last years of earth. The way I like to think about it is that Revelation is a bigger picture of both Daniel's prophecy and Matthew 24 magnified to reveal the details about the end days. If that is the case then we know America wouldn't be included. Besides, even if it did (hypothetically) America most likely would be destroyed immediately after the rapture and if not immediately then probably within the first four seals, eliminating it as a nation for or even against the Antichrist.
My sentiments, exactly!
-charles
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/11/2008 12:11:05 PM >
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/11/2008 6:08:44 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 283
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
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With honest respect to you, I found that post extremely hard to follow, or to understand what you are trying to say regarding Mystery Babylon or any of it. Could you put it in slightly easier language and your point a little clearer for a simple man such as myself
Thanks
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/12/2008 10:38:19 AM
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jerowhy
Posts: 42
Joined: 10/14/2008
Status: offline
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The Dragon swept 1/3 of the stars as written in Revelation. Some of these were cherubim, perhaps, and they are now called Principalities that were banished from their places as The Apostle wrote and were given an agreement by God to rule the earth until His Words are fulfilled. These spiritually dark rulers are struggling against The People everywhere to deceive them (make them drunk with the maddening wine of adulteries and arrows and serpentlike spiritual weaponry) which The Apostle Testified concerning that Jesus had given authority through His Spirit at Pentecost to overcome all of the whiles of the Devil. For, in those days My Spirit will be poured out upon all peoples, and My Spirit Will not contend with people indefinitely is written. The Spirit of God Hovered or Brooded over the face of the darkness of the deep. When deep calls unto deep. We are called out of these waters into The Living Waters which keeps the devil from deceiving Us by Faith.
It is written in Daniel that a Prince of the Covenant was swept and that the Dragon was trampling among the starry hosts which are Angelic Beings. They were banished at The Cross at Calvary to the lower heavenly realms, making the Dragon very mad and He pursued the Woman and Her Children as written. They no longer have their strongholds in the higher heavenly realms as before is written in The Apostle. Thus, mystery Babylon the 'great' is the city that rules over these fallen beings. The Prophets speak of wine many times. They attack and exercise their authority over all peoples everywhere. The poisonous darts of their work in peoples lives leads to sin and the wages of sin is death. They are working together in lucifers dark kingdom to do evil. The whole world is under the power of the evil one is Admonished by The Apostle. We are called unto repentance to be created anew as a new Work found in Christ to produce good fruits in keeping with Righteousness that comes by Faith in The Son of Man.
Thus, everyone on earth has spiritual battle to face regarding these events. This is without regard to humanistic traditions for commerce or theories regarding world government systems or economic constructs. Communism was written concerning via a Christian called Marx. Some of what he had taught came to pass in Governments. Marx said that it would be expressed as a partisan kingship rule until later; until The Millennium; perhaps.
The culminating period of 7 years will come to pass when the time is ready as given Sovereignly By God. Yet, Jesus taught that when you see the leaves and the fruits come out, you know that the time is near for the harvest in its seasons ordained by The Lord to occur. His Judgements or Decisions, the valley of decision.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
With honest respect to you, I found that post extremely hard to follow, or to understand what you are trying to say regarding Mystery Babylon or any of it. Could you put it in slightly easier language and your point a little clearer for a simple man such as myself
Thanks
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/12/2008 11:07:15 AM >
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/12/2008 11:32:40 AM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 283
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
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Thanks jerowhy for taking the time and your humility.
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Is U.S.A. "Mystery Babylon"? - 11/19/2008 2:29:21 AM
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StrokesJohnson
Posts: 3
Joined: 7/19/2008
Status: offline
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Been interesting the time I've been on the Net reading may websites with the comments of many people of the US considering the Us to be Mystery Babylon & referring to is as the Beast System.
While Rome does appear in the Bible as conquering Israel & other nations Rome is not specifically referred to in prophecy but prophecy discussions I have read or listened too have referred to Rome as one of the beast kingdoms in the Book of Revelation. Just because a nation's name does not appear in the Bible does not mean that nation isn't referred to in symbolic terms.
In my readings the peoples of Israel thought Jesus was coming to overthrow the Romans, but Jesus threw them a curve ball or two in not doing what they thought he should do, & not saying what they thought he should say. The Son of God is like that considering his Kingdom is not of this world, the world of man, & worldly things.
Some discussions I have read have considered the US may be the beast kingdom that speaks like a lamb, but acts like a dragon.
All I know is God clearly states he hasn't any love at all for Mystery Babylon. I don't know if God has any love for any beast kingdom. Some prophecy discussions I have listened too tend to think all these beast kingdoms will form a globalist beast system referred to as the New World Order. They list all the worldly leaders of nations they know that have called for the NWO.
Fascinating reading & discussions.
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