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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:02:26 PM
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HisCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
The study does not say 3-4 hours working out in a gym per day.
I didn't say 'in the gym'. I didn't say 'working out'. But the study does say 3 to 4 hours of moderate physical activity, and that is impossible for many people without sacrificing their qualitify of life..and for what? Appearance? Because this isn't about health, it is about appearance. (hence the prejudice. This is no longer about 'gosh you could have a heart attack' it's about 'one hour a day isn't good enough if you are still fat' Back to the treadmill, Fatty!)
Sacrifice their quality of life by being active? From my experience and all the research I have ever read, being active increases quality of life.
How do you know the article is about appearance? There is nothing in there about appearance... that's an assumption. It mentions neither appearance nor health concerns... No one in this thread has mentioned appearance, either. To bring either up is as an accusation of "it's all about x" is to take what's said out of context. Or do you have a reputable article that reveals the researchers true intent: proving that skinny girls are more sexy and deserve attention?
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:09:42 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
What happens if you can't do the little extras? Solo, if you're meaning because of a separate medical condition, that his a whole separate debate. This isn't about those people, it's about people who claim to have the 'fat gene' and so use it as an excuse to do nothing.
But since you asked... IMO, there are many of us who claim we 'can't do the little extras' when in reality we can do something. Again, going back to the paralympics, there are people who compete in many different sports with one kind of disability or amputation or another. They find something that they can do and they do it. They may not be able to walk, but they can use their arms.
quote:
for the study to assume that all fat people must be sitting on their rears watching television is following a stereotype which is probably not true. And I've not said that all fat people must be sitting on their rears. You're right, it's probably not a true stereotype. But for many, they do sit on their rears.
quote:
The problem there is that people assume if you are fat, you obviously haven't done anything about it, and that is not usually true. As I've got older, I've tended to care less about what other people assume about me and more about what I assume about myself. I know that I have a lot of problems that contribute to my being overweight. I also know that I don't exercise nearly as much as I should, or have done in the past. Now there are reasons why that is, which I don't intend to go into here ~ but I try and avoid saying 'I have this and that condition and take this and that medication and they all cause me to either gain weight or make it difficult for me to lose weight.' They are a contributing factor, they're not the sole reason though.
And I've never claimed to have the 'fat gene' and it galls me when people say they have it (especially when they've never been tested) and so do nothing, instead of doing the best they can even if they have it.
There are many people who are overweight who would put many slim people to shame in the lifestyle they maintain.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:17:08 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
There is nothing in there about appearance
How is losing weight not part of your appearance?
quote:
it's about people who claim to have the 'fat gene' and so use it as an excuse to do nothing.
How is it about that? How is the article about that? It isn't--it's saying that if you have this gene, you should exercise an insanely large amount in order to lose weight. In order for it to be about people who 'use the gene as an excuse' we'd have to have people who do that, and I have not met a single person like that. Have you? Anyone I know who feels they are genetically predestined to be larger than normal either feel it's a curse they have to work against, or feel that they are free to exercise for their health without setting themselves up for failure by trying to be thin instead.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:19:20 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
Sacrifice their quality of life by being active?
Sacrifice their quality of life by giving up time with their kids, going to college (that takes about three to four hours/day), sleeping 8 hours or more per night, being able to cook meals instead of eat takeout (that takes about 2 hours a day), in my case it would mean giving up homeschooling, and that is definitely a quality of life issue for us, and free time with my kids.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:24:13 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
How is losing weight not part of your appearance? My primary objective in losing weight is to improve my overall health, not to get into smaller-sized clothes. If I were to remain this size, yes, I'd be disappointed (mostly because there aren't that many decent larger sized clothes shops here) but I'd much prefer to remain this size and be able to run for a bus than be slim and struggle for breath when running for a bus.
quote:
Have you? Yes. Several. Along with others who claim other factors stop them from losing weight, so they don't bother doing anything.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:28:20 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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I think both lines of thought have the same problem.
If you get 45 minutes or so of decent exercise every day, regardless of your weight, you are pretty healthy. So to go beyond that simply for the sake of appearance is what turns exercise into punishment for fatness, and kills some people's desire to participate, and disappoints you because you think you are failing at being 'healthy'.
It's dumb to put four hours a day into trying to be thin. Frankly, it's just plain stupid. Appearance does NOT matter that much, and at that point, it IS about appearance, not good health.
Btw, what is the life expectancy of this group of people we are supposed to emulate, compared the life expectancy for the rest of us?
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:30:00 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
Sacrifice their quality of life by being active?
Sacrifice their quality of life by giving up time with their kids, going to college (that takes about three to four hours/day), sleeping 8 hours or more per night, being able to cook meals instead of eat takeout (that takes about 2 hours a day), in my case it would mean giving up homeschooling, and that is definitely a quality of life issue for us, and free time with my kids.
There are some parents around who are so extremely overweight that the time they spend with their kids has to be limited, in recreation and time, because they simply can't keep up. I suspect there are many adult children around who would have willingly spent a little less time with one or both of their parents if they knew that the parent was doing something to improve their health and ensuring that they would be able to be more active with them and quite possibly live longer.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:39:43 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Quit talking as though there are only the two extremes--doing nothing and doing four hours a day. I am asking why a healthy fat person who gets forty five minutes or so of physical activity most days should give up another 3 hours of every day just to be thinner. Not healthier, because that three hours doesn't make you any healthier, but thinner.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:41:44 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
Solo, if you're meaning because of a separate medical condition, that his a whole separate debate. This isn't about those people, it's about people who claim to have the 'fat gene' and so use it as an excuse to do nothing.
But since you asked... IMO, there are many of us who claim we 'can't do the little extras' when in reality we can do something. Again, going back to the paralympics, there are people who compete in many different sports with one kind of disability or amputation or another. They find something that they can do and they do it. They may not be able to walk, but they can use their arms.
Well, your OP says health problems are no excuse for avoiding exercise. But... unless one knows how everything is for everyone, I don't see how one would know unless they guessed. I'm not overweight, but I do have conditions that keep me from doing most exercise, and many times, from doing any kind of exercise. Being sick myself in the way that I am, I see how people who are ill but not VISIBLY sick can really get the "your lazy's" when they're truly too ill. I understand how people who are sick but not making excuses can get tired of people saying they're making excuses.
My thinking was that some may have the gene and the conditions at the same time. :) I use my arms plenty and try to do exercises with them, but I can't do much with leg movements...although amputees with prosthetics can still run, walk, etc. (unless there's another problem)-- I can't do that most times, and I have both legs. It doesn't seem like that's enough for those who have a lot to lose or a lot to prevent from gaining, but it's better than nothing I suppose. I really just said that because we don't know why some people seem to not move much. I don't go around telling people what I have and that's the reason why I don't move a ton. We don't know everything about everybody, but maybe that's just me. (Yes, some people are just lazy. I know.)
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 8:42:45 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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A professional's response
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 9:10:51 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Quit talking as though there are only the two extremes--doing nothing and doing four hours a day. I've mentioned several times about people doing something instead of NOTHING. Having (or claiming to have) the fat gene is NOT an excuse to eat junk and do no exercise. Infact, it should be seen as an inscentive to eat better and do some exercise.
quote:
Well, your OP says health problems are no excuse for avoiding exercise. Yes it does. It could be a difference in language but there's a difference between avoiding exercise and not being able to do it.
quote:
I use my arms plenty and try to do exercises with them, but I can't do much with leg movements Which is my point. You are doing something. You're not making an excuse that because you can't use your legs as much as you'd like to be able to you can't do any exercise.
quote:
I don't go around telling people what I have and that's the reason why I don't move a ton. And I don't either, unless it's relevant. But there are plenty of people in the world today who say 'I have the fat gene so I'll always be overweight, therefore it doesn't matter if I don't do any exercise or eat junk.'
I've used the word 'exercise' a bit in this post. I echo what others have said about it not being about going to the gym, but about getting some sort of movement, instead of doing nothing. Getting up and turning the tv off, going for a walk with the family instead of slouching around the house, housework, gardening all can and should count as doing something.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 9:11:39 PM
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Kath
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I have read through the article and there is nothing in it about appearance. It is about obesity, not prejudice against overweight people.
Please stick to the topic, which is about the contents of the article. Any further posts about appearance or prejudice against overweight people will be removed and a report filed against the account.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/12/2008 9:42:38 PM
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Liveloved
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Perhaps the question needs to be : what am I willing to do to remain healthy? or to be healthy?
How many people are diebetic because they are overweight? How many of our nation's health problems are because we eat too much, exercise too little, and are NOT proactive when it comes to our health?
And who should pay for MY health? When I choose to NOT take responsibility for it?
I probably have the fat gene. But I am doing something about it. I eat healthfully. I exercise three times a week. And I do not expect ANYONE to pay for MY health problems.
The Apostle Paul said that he would not be a burden to ANYONE. Perhaps the Christian people would do well to listen to him. OR should we think that Paul was speaking for God?
Just my thoughts as I read all the posts on this thread.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 10:39:42 AM
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phosadaud
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Again, I think folks are missing the point on the "being active". This is not "adding" 3-4 hours of activity per day. This is not about treadmills or stairsteppers. This is simply making choices in how we do what we do. For the life of me, I can't comprehend NOT doing something active for a total (not one big chunk) of 3-4 hours per day and just sitting on my rear-end for 24 hours per day. (I am NOT sayinge everyone can do ALL these things, but everyone should be able to do some of these things.) Here are some ideas for those who think this isn't possible: use a push mower to mow your lawn not the teenager down the street; instead of picking your mail up while in your car on the way home from work - take a short walk to the boxes after you get home; park further out at the grocery store; take the stairs instead of the elevator or escalator; walk your dog (or a neighbors dog or the dog of someone in your church who is ill); play outdoor games like frisbee with your kids; go on a hike with your kids and teach them about nature; at a mall, instead of parking next to the store you plan on going to, park on the other side of the mall and walk through the mall to the store; instead of jumping in the car for everything, find some places you can walk with your family to; on your lunch break at work, use some of it to take a walk around your building; instead of the kids vacuuming, have them wash the dishes while you vacuum; get a bicycle to do local errands; park at the bottom of a hill when you need to go somewhere at the top of a hill; etc, etc, etc.
I work full-time. I am in the middle of a strenuous process of starting a new career. I am very involved in my church. I am a home-owner. I am a part of a close family that does many things together. I have a social life. As my college pastor shared: We ALL have the same 24 hours per day. Saying we don't have time for something isn't an excuse. We make time for things we find important. It's not about not having enough time - it's about something not being enough of a priority to make the time. The fact is, doing these kinds of things will help you sleep better at night (so you have to sleep less and have more energy); improve your motivation and how quickly you can get things done because you feel better and have more endurance and are healthier; will improve your immune system so you will be sick less often; etc. The fact is, by taking a little extra time here and there, you will find that you ultimately GAIN time. I know that happened with me. I used to think, I don't have time to workout for an hour a day (and here I'm talking about an actual workout not what I have described above). What I found though is that the workouts gave me so much more energy, helped me sleep better, helped my motivation to get things done, helped me have the energy to get things done faster, etc, that I get MORE done than I used to and my health is better and I feel better than I ever have in my life. And a bonus: I also look better than I ever have in my life (even if that wasn't the goal).
Everyone can do something. It may take different forms, but no one is helpless. I have an elderly neighbor who is out every single morning with his walker, walking around the block. He can't go far - only about 30-40 feet before he needs to sit and rest for a bit, but he is OUT there doing something. I used to work in nursing homes. I remember one particular gentleman who was in a wheelchair although he could stand and walk a little. I started walking with him to the dining room. At first, he could only walk a short distance with his walker before he needed to sit down in the wheelchair I took with us. It wasn't long that he was walking the entire way to the dining room though. And it made a TREMENDOUS difference in his health and his attitude. He got so excited to see me! When I worked, he would grab his walker and wait in his doorway for every meal just waiting to go take that walk. If anyone had an excuse to not do something, it was him, but he didn't use an excuse - he did something. It may not have been much, but he did what he could and it made a difference in his health: mental, physical and emotional. Yes, it took a few extra minutes to get to the dining room, but here's the rub --> it was worth it! 
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 11:25:31 AM
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HisCovenant
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Well said, Kristin.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 11:29:59 AM
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agapetos
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Kristin ~ that post deserves lots of stars!
Your old gentleman reminds me of the gentleman who takes care of the area beside my town's war memorial (which is opposite where I live). He tends it regularly and it's always beautiful. He's in his 80's.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 12:45:32 PM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
Ummm...I think folks would do well to read the whole article, rather than focus on one or two sentences.
I think we might need to do even more than that. Bodyweight is as much a function of diet as it is exercise. The article doesn't discuss diet, anywhere as in-depth as it covers exercise\activity. One of the articles that I say, memtioned that the Amish diet was fairly calorie dense.
The study simply says that the non-obese Amish appeared to burn around 900kcal more than the obese.
First, I believe one needs to burn around 3,500kcal to lose a pound. If these people are burning an "extra" 900 per day, that's 6,300 per week. Meaning they're "losing" around 1.8 pounds per week or 93.6 pounds per year. So they'd have a life expectancy of under 3 years, because in that time they would "vanish". Which of course isn't what's happening.
Going back to diet. The 900kcal really has little meaning, if you don't know the other side of the equation; how much is coming in. All the 900kcal is, is what the non-obese Amish burn more than their obese counterparts. The study shows they burn that in 10+ hour days of light activity, which would breakdown to 3-4 hours of moderate activity. So if the obese Amish are burning 900kcal less, but eating the same calories via their diet, they're going to end up obese over time.
So no where is it proven that the non-obeseness is a function of the 900kcal burns.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 1:26:12 PM
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HisLamb26
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phosodaud,
Well Said!
Some folks use the "I can't exercise 7 days a week" as nothing more than an excuse to DO NOTHING.
Then I see those seniors @ the gym-some who have much trouble walking....but they MAKE THE EFFORT, and at least walk, splash around a bit in the pool. Far better for them to be out and about and moving, than sitting home figuring since they can't do much, they might as well do nothing.
No Show,
That's a good point about diet. Not to mention the calorie dense Amish Diet. I'm not very familiar with their culture, but when I spent a few days in Amish country with my family-if they are eating those Amish desserts on a regular basis I'm suprised they don't have more of a problem with obesity.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 1:58:17 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Then I see those seniors @ the gym-some who have much trouble walking....but they MAKE THE EFFORT, and at least walk, splash around a bit in the pool. Far better for them to be out and about and moving, than sitting home figuring since they can't do much, they might as well do nothing. In the gym that I used to go to, there were times during the week that I'd avoid it because, while still open to all, it would get crowded. The first, irritated me no end ~ it was when school kids came in and were supposed to use the equipment ~ one or two did, but not many, they just blocked anyone else from using the equipment they weren't wearing out. The other was when the over-60's used it. They were lovely and deserved to have more time set aside for them because they worked hard at what they could do.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 2:32:39 PM
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IonMoon
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I just finished grad school. It was almost impossible for me to get in even 30 minutes a day of exercise. ANd I tried. I really tried. I was not sitting all day, though I did sit a lot, but my activity was often not to the point of being "moderate."
I spent 40 hours/week at work, 12 hours a week in class, 20 hours a week on the bus. And then there was cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. Sometimes I slept and ate and showered. Now... I am done with school and I faithfully get in at least an hour a day of exercise (but it is still a challenege). I would not be able even now to fit in 3-4 hours of moderate activity (which is like, brisk walking, etc). I will never look at someone else's life and say that because I can fit in exercise (or any other activity I see as worthwhile) they should be able to do it, too.
The study was clear (I have read a few articles about it) that it had to be moderate level of exercise 3-4 hours daily. Other studies have been clear that 20-60 minutes 6 days a week is sufficient to produce health benefits. So, to me, taken together, I see it that I may exercise daily and get the health benefits, but still be fat. I'm fine with that.
Sure, doing things like parking farther away from the store (assuming it is safe), taking the steps, etc are great things to add in where you can, but in most people's lives adding 3-4 hours of those types of things would be a challenge. It would take me 10 minutes to walk up the satirs at work... takes 5 if I park in the farthest lot at the store (and I only shop 2x/month!).
I don't watch tv, I don't have a lot of down time, I am usually pretty busy; but I cannot replace things like work, cooking, cleaning with moderate phsycial activity in order to shut off my fat gene (if I have one).
Tara P
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 3:33:03 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
I just finished grad school. It was almost impossible for me to get in even 30 minutes a day of exercise. ANd I tried. I really tried. I was not sitting all day, though I did sit a lot, but my activity was often not to the point of being "moderate."
I spent 40 hours/week at work, 12 hours a week in class, 20 hours a week on the bus. And then there was cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. Sometimes I slept and ate and showered. Now... I am done with school and I faithfully get in at least an hour a day of exercise (but it is still a challenege). I would not be able even now to fit in 3-4 hours of moderate activity (which is like, brisk walking, etc). I will never look at someone else's life and say that because I can fit in exercise (or any other activity I see as worthwhile) they should be able to do it, too.
The study was clear (I have read a few articles about it) that it had to be moderate level of exercise 3-4 hours daily. Other studies have been clear that 20-60 minutes 6 days a week is sufficient to produce health benefits. So, to me, taken together, I see it that I may exercise daily and get the health benefits, but still be fat. I'm fine with that.
Sure, doing things like parking farther away from the store (assuming it is safe), taking the steps, etc are great things to add in where you can, but in most people's lives adding 3-4 hours of those types of things would be a challenge. It would take me 10 minutes to walk up the satirs at work... takes 5 if I park in the farthest lot at the store (and I only shop 2x/month!).
I don't watch tv, I don't have a lot of down time, I am usually pretty busy; but I cannot replace things like work, cooking, cleaning with moderate phsycial activity in order to shut off my fat gene (if I have one).
Tara P
Sounds like me. :) But I'm still in undergrad. I remember at times spending all day doing my work... I'd forget to eat sometimes and go to the restroom. I'd go to class and get done around noon, then from then on, I'd be working on my projects until about midnight. Now I have my senior biology thesis and three other classes to work on, plus research at another university for hours upon hours. It's well over forty hours a week...and many times I have to go to bed after midnight and wake up before five in the morning. I know people in med/grad school who struggle to find sleeping time; exercise went out the window a long time ago for some. But then again, a lot of them forget to eat and go to the restroom as well. :)
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 3:44:20 PM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
The study was clear (I have read a few articles about it) that it had to be moderate level of exercise 3-4 hours daily.
In order to burn an extra\additional 900kcal a day. Why does someone "need" to burn an extra 900kcal a day. Especially on an on-going basis. Sure if they're want to lose weight, one might need to for a period of time; but after that if it's needed to maintain a weight, one has to take a hard look at diet.
I'll be the first to admit that "so I can eat ice cream" is in my top five reasons for working out. But it's a trade-off I acknowledge. And working out doesn't give me unlimited ice cream consumption.
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RE: The fat gene ~ not an excuse! - 9/13/2008 4:15:05 PM
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NoShow
Posts: 462
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
No Show,
That's a good point about diet. Not to mention the calorie dense Amish Diet. I'm not very familiar with their culture, but when I spent a few days in Amish country with my family-if they are eating those Amish desserts on a regular basis I'm suprised they don't have more of a problem with obesity.
Here's what a little Googling shows:
"...The Amish generally eat foods produced in their own gardens or on their farms. As a rule, they do not eat processed, store-bought foods, such as corn flakes or potato chips. Homegrown fruits and vegetables, eaten fresh, canned, or frozen, play a very important part in the Amish diet. Vegetables often found in Amish meals include peas, corn, zucchini, beets, beans, rhubarb, and many others. Cabbage and potatoes are especially important. Sauerkraut—a type of pickled cabbage—appears at many Amish meals and is used in everything from soups to cakes. Grain products like bread, cornmeal, and oatmeal are also staples of the Amish diet. Scrapple, a popular breakfast food, is made with fried cornmeal mush prepared with sausage and liverwurst.
Amish main meals are usually built around hearty meat dishes, such as pork chops, ham, roast beef, or meatloaf. Dairy products, especially eggs and cheese, are also important dietary staples. The Amish are known throughout the country for the quality of the cheese they produce and market. Most Amish families keep at least a few chickens so they can eat freshly laid eggs all year round. In the wintertime, hearty soups are eaten regularly.
Amish women bake a great deal, preparing breads, cookies, pies, and cakes. The best-known Amish desserts include shoofly pie, sugar cookies, and schnitz pie, which is made with dried apples...."
"...Their diet is not low-carb or low-fat. The study says, "The Amish diet is typical of the pre-World War II rural diet. It includes meat, potatoes, gravy, eggs, vegetables, bread, pies, cakes, and is quite high in fat and refined sugar." But it is balanced with a high physical activity level. This is more typical of marathon training or other endurance sport training, where carbs are considered fuel rather than shunned. This Amish community rarely snacks between meals and has limited access to fast food..."
"...The old-order Amish diet consists of most anything under the sun - from bread to rich desserts made with real sugar and real cream..."
"...Amish food is hardly low on calories. In fact their diet is an American fantasy. The typical Amish diet includes large amounts of meat, potatoes, fruit, cakes and pies..."
One source made mention of the typical Amish male burning 6,000 a day, due to the labor intensity of their life style. The more I look at this study the less it tells us anything new at all. So typical, the media grabs it and distorts the facts. The bottom line is that the non-obese Amish burn around 900kcal at day more than their obese counterparts. But eating 900 calories a day would give similar results.
Yes, the 900cal translates into 3-4 hours of moderate activity. But there's no mention comparing the twos diet. As far as we know the non-obese may be consuming 700 calories a day more than the obese.
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