Cheating in video games, bad? (Full Version)

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Delbrugge -> Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 2:53:21 PM)

I like cheating in video games, and online games. The reason I am doing it is because I'm bored and its fun to see me get higher levels without doing anything. Is this wrong? Do you think it's a sin? Should I quit doing it?

Another question I have isn't related to video games but maybe cheating, I'm not sure.

In my high school english class we have to read a book for a while, then we have a test on it. I hate reading books... instead, I look on Sparknotes, a site with summary's of chapters in various books. My question is.. Is it cheating and/or wrong for me to read these summary's of chapters from this site instead of reading the original book? By reading the summary's of the chapters I am able to skip the boring stuff and get to the main points in the story I need to know.

Thanks for reading, I know it's long.. [;)]

Also, I recently stopped using pirated software and downloading DVD movies because I thought it was stealing.. was this the right thing to do? (I really enjoy the movies [:)])



Zhi -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 5:45:09 PM)

quote:

I like cheating in video games, and online games. The reason I am doing it is because I'm bored and its fun to see me get higher levels without doing anything. Is this wrong? Do you think it's a sin? Should I quit doing it?

Well, I'm not really sure what you quantify as "cheating" in this context. If you mean downloading hacks and cheat codes, I would state that doing so is a stupid idea. Those things are riddled with viruses and trojans, and you're going to regret it sooner or later. Furthermore it's a good way to get your accounts banned, in online games, though most halfway decent online games have pretty good hack-prevention measures (and hack detection measures, for that matter).

quote:

Another question I have isn't related to video games but maybe cheating, I'm not sure.

In my high school english class we have to read a book for a while, then we have a test on it. I hate reading books... instead, I look on Sparknotes, a site with summary's of chapters in various books. My question is.. Is it cheating and/or wrong for me to read these summary's of chapters from this site instead of reading the original book? By reading the summary's of the chapters I am able to skip the boring stuff and get to the main points in the story I need to know.

Is the grade in your class based on the assumption that you are, in fact, reading the books?

If so, you're basically lying to your teacher regarding your performance of your coursework.

quote:

Also, I recently stopped using pirated software and downloading DVD movies because I thought it was stealing.. was this the right thing to do? (I really enjoy the movies )

Yes, both for your conscience and your computer's safety. If you're interested, there are many TV shows and movies available on hulu.com that you can watch with a clear conscience (they are free, supported by advertising).



moon_mouse -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 5:50:19 PM)

Video games...as long as you aren't competing against someone else who is assuming that no cheats will be used, I don't think it's wrong. I used to play a lot of story style games, and would use hint books to get past sticking points. You might want to make sure you've tried all you can to move forward in the game by yourself before you use a cheat...you're actually cheating yourself of the feeling of achievement you get when you do it yourself!

Sparknotes/Cliffs Notes...yes, this is DEFINITELY cheating, unless your instructor has specifically told you that you may substitute the notes (which no responsible teacher would do). It's also a really bad idea for your academic future. Teachers and college profs read these notes, and can spot essays written based on these summaries a mile away! Eventually, you are probably going to get caught. Plus, if you go on to college, you are eventually going to run into a book that doesn't have a summary book, and you will not have developed the critical thinking skills to digest the book on your own. If an instructor permits it, you can use these books to help you review after you've read a chapter, but trust me, you are just handicapping yourself for the future if you take the easy way out now!



Bluethread -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 6:56:29 PM)

I would think cheating is a kin to stealing and false wittness. It is related to deceiving someone else. As long as everyone knows you are doing it and is all right with it, it isn't cheating. It's changing the terms of the social contract.

However, if you're playing "grand theft auto" your vertually cheating regardless.



car2ner -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 7:20:41 PM)

If you are playing an MMORPG, please don't go AFK or take loot that isn't really yours. To used "cheats" to get to a higher level, if you are only competing against yourself then it is no big deal. I use a leveling guide to keep from getting frustrated. And players share tips.

Notes instead of reading the books, if it is a good book you are cheating yourself. It will eventually bite you back. For movies, Hulu.com is interesting and many networks play their back episodes online. Many libraries have DVDs that they loan. Congrats on moving toward doing what is more ethical.



MrFribbles -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 7:29:24 PM)

With video games -
It only matters if you're cheating affects other users. For instance, if you're sitting at home playing Crono Trigger (sorry, I'm old school like that) and you decide that you don't want to spend any time grinding, it's definitely not sinful to pop in the ol' Game Genie and give yourself a bazillion level ups. However, it would be wrong if you were, say, playing World of Warcraft, and downloaded a device that increased your gold or level in a cheating manner, because it influences other player's gaming experience.
Here's another way to think of it - if you're playing solitaire for fun, and you cheat, nobody cares. If you're playing poker, everyone cares.

With the assignment -
It depends on what, exactly, you're teacher asked you to do. If they want you to read the entire book, then you need to read the entire book. If, however, the assignment is to study the book for a test, then it would be fine to use the notes.

With the pirated DVDs/software -
Yes, stopping was absolutely the right thing. It is stealing, and it is a sin. I know that we like to pretend it's not, mostly because it's so easy, but you're taking away money from hard working individuals - not the big name actors (though they do good work, too), but I'm mostly thinking of the people whose names we ignore in the credits.



zamdad -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 7:36:40 PM)

Seems to me that you know it's wrong to cheat on anything and to pirate things and you're seeking validation for making a moral choice. There, you've been validated. Now, go and sin no more.



Delbrugge -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 9:21:05 PM)

quote:

I would state that doing so is a stupid idea. Those things are riddled with viruses and trojans, and you're going to regret it sooner or later. Furthermore it's a good way to get your accounts banned, in online games, though most halfway decent online games have pretty good hack-prevention measures


Hehehe, computer security is defiantly not an issue, trust me [;)]

I don't even use a anti virus or firewall

I'm not worried about being banned since I have been before and it doesn't bother me.. I just create a new account.

Ok, since the piracy thing is out of the way, I'm trying to get the game cheating thing right...

Cheating in games with other people is wrong? Say you bot to gain levels while others are doing the game legit. World of Warcraft for example, you bot and gain levels while other people are doing it legit. Sin? It is an unfair advantage at the game.. so I'm assuming it's wrong but I want to be right since I think it's pretty fun(for some odd reason).



Zhi -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/10/2008 10:38:33 PM)

Well, botting in World of Warcraft is pretty difficult, really. For one thing, the players hate it when you do that, so they take perverse pleasure in screwing up your botting while waiting for a GM to answer their report on you (calling in a rogue buddy to pull a ton of mobs and then vanish directly on top of you is a big one, or at least it was back when people still bothered using bots. They also try to get you to hit them so they can kill you, yay honor points.) For another thing, the game scans for that, so most botters don't last past 30, and getting banned and losing the ~$40 you paid for the game and your first month gets pricey after a while. Then, of course, there's the fact that you end up with a char you have no clue how to play, so you'll get blacklisted pretty early from groups (if you're not already blacklisted from being touted as a known botter on the forums), and you'll die a lot. *shrug*

My server has basically no botters. Granted my server is a PVP-RP server, so they wouldn't survive.

As for the moral issue... you "signed" an agreement when you installed the game (or downloaded a patch, or deleted your wtf/wdb folders due to a bug, or looked at the game funny) stating that you wouldn't bot, among other things, see http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.shtml, section 4, part B. So, if you decide to bot after clicking "I accept", you're again reneging on your word, which is lying. Your call. *shrug*



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 12:10:38 AM)

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.



Delbrugge -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 6:41:38 AM)

quote:

So, if you decide to bot after clicking "I accept", you're again reneging on your word, which is lying. Your call.


Ahh.. yes, forgot about that one.[:)]

I just read a game I bot on and it doesn't say anything about botting or 3rd party programs when accepting the agreement.

Here is the only thing I could find about cheating:
quote:

Article 5 (Definition of Hacking)

1. Hacking shall mean acquisition and use of other's computerized information without permission. Hacking includes the following actions:
① Creating a new function that can harm the system
② Illegally penetrating into the information system without permission

Article 6 (Hacking Management)

1. Company shall delete or suspend forever the account owned by such hacker and/or temporarily restore all date in existence before hacking.

2. Hacker and the user of hacking program may be subject to civil or criminal liability in accordance with applicable statutes or regulations, and the Company shall not be liable.


I'm not hacking, I'm using a bot and it doesn't meet those definitions. So as far as I know it's legal to bot in this game, correct?[&:]



edgibson -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 9:30:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delbrugge
Cheating in games with other people is wrong? Say you bot to gain levels while others are doing the game legit. World of Warcraft for example, you bot and gain levels while other people are doing it legit. Sin? It is an unfair advantage at the game.. so I'm assuming it's wrong but I want to be right since I think it's pretty fun(for some odd reason).


The fact that you are questioning your actions and are seeking out people to tell you it is right should already give you a hint.

As I have highlighted, you have already answered your own question. There are several things that I would like to be "right" and for the same reason[;)], but they aren't.


I do use cheat codes on my single player games, but I only use them after completing the game. Some of them make for an interesting replay, and can get you to some of those hidden spots that the developers hide.



car2ner -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 2:09:34 PM)

quote:

you "signed" an agreement when you installed the game (or downloaded a patch, or deleted your wtf/wdb folders due to a bug, or looked at the game funny) stating that you wouldn't bot, among other things, see http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.shtml, section 4, part B. So, if you decide to bot after clicking "I accept", you're again reneging on your word, which is lying. Your call. *shrug*


Wow, not only did you read the TOS but remember them? I read them the first time I set up the game but not since then even after updates. I simply scan them to make sure I am not agreeing to give them my first born child, etc.

Role playing games are about the journey. If you don't enjoy it there are other things you can do with your time. Please don't cheat and spoil things for other players.

If the game never went any further than one desk top, perhaps finding out if someone can hack it is the real attraction to the game.



WesP -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 3:03:22 PM)

quote:

I'm not hacking, I'm using a bot and it doesn't meet those definitions. So as far as I know it's legal to bot in this game, correct?


If you run a bot and get banned, it is against their TOS. End of story. Also, most bots allow auto pickups, etc., which is definitely going against other players unfairly. I do not know of any online games that are cool with that.



Zhi -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 3:16:05 PM)

quote:

Wow, not only did you read the TOS but remember them? I read them the first time I set up the game but not since then even after updates. I simply scan them to make sure I am not agreeing to give them my first born child, etc.

Role playing games are about the journey. If you don't enjoy it there are other things you can do with your time. Please don't cheat and spoil things for other players.

If the game never went any further than one desk top, perhaps finding out if someone can hack it is the real attraction to the game.

I am a software engineer. It is of great interest to me what I am and am not allowed to do to games, so I read the TOS thoroughly.

I am, um, kind of part of the reason that most TOS these days expressly forbid packet-sniffing the client/server data link and making our own gameservers. *shuffles feet* I've never been into cheats and hacks, but let's just say developing your own free, anyone-can-host-it, script-your-own-game-rules gameserver wasn't a TOS violation when Ultima Online first came out.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 3:26:03 PM)

Cheating in single player modes on developer platforms (i.e. ps2, xbox, Nintendo, etc) is not a sin when the masses cannot be affected. I don't think the CPU is going say it's unfair, given that CGI cannot possess human emotions.

If I give Anakin infinite health, are the droids going to stop the gameplay and call me immoral for doing so? I don't think so.



torath -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/11/2008 3:31:11 PM)

There are actually teaching resources out there that break down the services like Cliffnotes and I would presume Sparknotes listing what specific things they cover and leave out so on an essay they can tell if you highlight the same things as the abbreviated services and on a test they can ask questions on things not covered in the short versions.

So basically yes, it is cheating and wrong to use them if there are tools for teachers to prevent you from using them.

Using cheat on video games is fine, unless you try to lie to someone and claim you are not(when playing them) or did not(when showing off what you accomplished).

Using hacks, mainly for online games like World of Warcraft is expressly forbidden by the Terms of Service you agreed to when you installed the game and after each patch. So that is not only cheating but actually illegal.



Mrs.X -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/12/2008 1:27:07 AM)

Online play, yes cheating is wrong. Single player, no. I can still remember the cheat for Sonic on Sega, it was up, down, left, right, A, Start. Hehehe.



Zhi -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/12/2008 12:00:14 PM)

I can't really think of a context in which "cheat codes" (or, if you prefer, "easter eggs") intentionally injected by the writers of the game would be considered real, unethical "cheating". hehe



Restored_Heart -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/12/2008 3:52:30 PM)

I think however, that I have heard of some cheats that cause the game to be "broken".... like it won't let you get the perfect ending or some such like that....

It is like it becomes marked as "hacked".



zoebob -> RE: Cheating in video games, bad? (9/12/2008 4:35:41 PM)

Using something like CLiffnotes or whatever you use instead of reading the book is just stupid (unless the teacher says it's OK but then they would not assign the book). Teachers know what is covered in them so they know to ask questions not covered by the notes. Now, I did use cliff notes a couple times in high school but only after I read the book to make sure I understood it...not in place of the book.



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