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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/9/2008 3:22:29 PM
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Kat_D
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What makes you believe she is a Christian? Christians are led by the Spirit and exhibit the fruits of the Spirit..is she?
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. -Galatians 5
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/9/2008 5:57:29 PM
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preserved
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She could be a christian with an anger problem which is a sin...However, I am not sure how an evil spirit can preside in a spirtual believer of Christ. The two cannot dwell together in the same temple (body). Remember there are those who calls themselves christian but does not allow the Holy Spirit to live within their hearts...
Another angle could be that she has an illness that no one is aware of...Someone does need to sit down and talk with her to find out what exactly is going on...
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/9/2008 7:17:23 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Another angle could be that she has an illness that no one is aware of...Someone does need to sit down and talk with her to find out what exactly is going on... I agree. I wonder if T recognises that she has a problem?
My first thought was that it could be a hormonal problem and it's something that she could get help for. It's could also be learned behaviour and again it's something that she could get help for.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/9/2008 11:35:35 PM
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georgerobbyjr
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quote:
What makes you believe she is a Christian? Christians are led by the Spirit and exhibit the fruits of the Spirit..is she?
quote:
She could be a christian with an anger problem which is a sin...However, I am not sure how an evil spirit can preside in a spirtual believer of Christ. The two cannot dwell together in the same temple (body). Remember there are those who calls themselves christian but does not allow the Holy Spirit to live within their hearts...
Christians struggle with various issues, that does not make them unbelievers. There are christians who have anger problems, struggle with porn, ones that are recovering alcoholics, etc. There are christians that have trouble forgiving, are selfish without realizing it, are not gentle, etc.
There are also christians who are closer to God or more obedient than others. To say it is a sin to have an anger problem while struggling with our own sin is hypocritical and a perfect example of why many unbelievers think we are all a bunch of morons. It's like saying it's okay for us to sin but not the other party. Anger issues are often the result of abuse or neglect and we must not abandon these people, they need all the help they can get.
I can understand why the OP wants to distance herself from her sister, especially after reading about the big fight in front of her 8 year old child. I am not in any way condoning any sin, and do think that sometimes we need to distance ourselves from certain people because of sin in their lives (this is a good example), but to say it is a sin to have such and such a problem doesn't seem right to me. All sinned and are un-christian-like on certain days, that doesn't make them unbelievers.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/10/2008 6:28:11 AM
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Sadey
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The problem with having a family member like this is that every family gathering centers on this person and how are they going to act. The stress on your mom must be terrible. I imagine this all started years and years ago?
I would suggest an appointment with a family therapist for you and your mom. You could get some ideas on how to deal with it. Isn't it strange that we allow behavior from family members that we wouldn't put up with for a second from friends?
And there must be some unwritten law that we have to have them at every family gathering and we must'nt ever call them on their behavior. Its okay if the whole time is centered around them and worrying when are they going to blow. Of course angry people use their anger to control everyone else.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/10/2008 10:27:55 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: georgerobbyjr
quote:
What makes you believe she is a Christian? Christians are led by the Spirit and exhibit the fruits of the Spirit..is she?
quote:
She could be a christian with an anger problem which is a sin...However, I am not sure how an evil spirit can preside in a spirtual believer of Christ. The two cannot dwell together in the same temple (body). Remember there are those who calls themselves christian but does not allow the Holy Spirit to live within their hearts...
Christians struggle with various issues, that does not make them unbelievers. There are christians who have anger problems, struggle with porn, ones that are recovering alcoholics, etc. There are christians that have trouble forgiving, are selfish without realizing it, are not gentle, etc.
There are also christians who are closer to God or more obedient than others. To say it is a sin to have an anger problem while struggling with our own sin is hypocritical and a perfect example of why many unbelievers think we are all a bunch of morons. It's like saying it's okay for us to sin but not the other party. Anger issues are often the result of abuse or neglect and we must not abandon these people, they need all the help they can get.
Actually, the only time it would be hypocritical is if I said I have no sin which I haven't. I asked an honest question about the OP's sister because for years she has displayed actions and responses that are contrary to the fruits of the Spirit and a growing relationship with Jesus Christ.
In the church today there are unchecked numbers of "Christians" who never change and live unrepentant lives of sin. They often use past abuse as an excuse to continue their ungodly actions; they qualify alcohol and drug addiction as a "sickness," and discount years of sinful behavior because they have "mental issues." The church in general has become reticent to call sin "sin," and has fallen into the psychology traps set for secular society.
My Bibe says that when I became a believer, I became a "new creature in Christ...the old things passed away and everything become new again." That promise is for every Christian no matter what their past issues or struggles. While many battle to overcome sin over a period of time, there should be noticable progress. To continue a life of sin for years and years does not reflect the changing power of a relationship with the Living God.
Lest you think I don't know what I speak of, I came from a severely abusive childhood and had serious mental (5 attempted suicide hospitalizaions), anger and addiction issues when I came to Christ. From the time I was saved, there has been steady progress in putting the old things away and becoming the new woman Christ created me to be. Yes, there have been struggles, but always progress.
In all the time I have been a women's biblical counselor, it has been rare for me to see someone with ongoing sin issues who has a legitimate mental illness. If the OP's sister is indeed mentally ill and not just giving in to her flesh, (which no one really knows because she's never been diagnosed) and refuses to get the help she needs, there is nothing the family can do except get counsel themselves in how they should/should not deal with her. Perhaps a family intervention is in order, that and lots of prayer.
To the OP: I meant nothing unkind by my original question. I was seeking information on your sister knowing all the while that someone would pull the hypocrite card. Remember, God can fix your sister no matter what her problem is...but she has to be willing to be "fixed."
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/10/2008 3:58:48 PM
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preserved
Posts: 778
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quote:
ORIGINAL: georgerobbyjr
quote:
What makes you believe she is a Christian? Christians are led by the Spirit and exhibit the fruits of the Spirit..is she?
quote:
She could be a christian with an anger problem which is a sin...However, I am not sure how an evil spirit can preside in a spirtual believer of Christ. The two cannot dwell together in the same temple (body). Remember there are those who calls themselves christian but does not allow the Holy Spirit to live within their hearts...
Christians struggle with various issues, that does not make them unbelievers. There are christians who have anger problems, struggle with porn, ones that are recovering alcoholics, etc. There are christians that have trouble forgiving, are selfish without realizing it, are not gentle, etc.
There are also christians who are closer to God or more obedient than others. To say it is a sin to have an anger problem while struggling with our own sin is hypocritical and a perfect example of why many unbelievers think we are all a bunch of morons. It's like saying it's okay for us to sin but not the other party. Anger issues are often the result of abuse or neglect and we must not abandon these people, they need all the help they can get.
I can understand why the OP wants to distance herself from her sister, especially after reading about the big fight in front of her 8 year old child. I am not in any way condoning any sin, and do think that sometimes we need to distance ourselves from certain people because of sin in their lives (this is a good example), but to say it is a sin to have such and such a problem doesn't seem right to me. All sinned and are un-christian-like on certain days, that doesn't make them unbelievers.
georgerobbyjr...having an angered spirit is not of God...This is why I indicated that a christian cannot have two spirits living within them together at all times...which does back to the other information I indicated that this person may have a illness that knowone is aware of..
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/11/2008 12:04:49 AM
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georgerobbyjr
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quote:
Actually, the only time it would be hypocritical is if I said I have no sin which I haven't. I asked an honest question about the OP's sister because for years she has displayed actions and responses that are contrary to the fruits of the Spirit and a growing relationship with Jesus Christ.
In the church today there are unchecked numbers of "Christians" who never change and live unrepentant lives of sin. They often use past abuse as an excuse to continue their ungodly actions; they qualify alcohol and drug addiction as a "sickness," and discount years of sinful behavior because they have "mental issues." The church in general has become reticent to call sin "sin," and has fallen into the psychology traps set for secular society.
You make good points and I agree with virtually everything you said, I just didn't like the terminology preserved used. We must make progress in our relationship with Christ and in regards to our weaknesses (sins). We cannot continue to live in sin as we know from the book of Romans. I may be nitpicking, but to say it is a sin to have such and such a problem still doesn't sound right to me.
quote:
georgerobbyjr...having an angered spirit is not of God...This is why I indicated that a christian cannot have two spirits living within them together at all times...which does back to the other information I indicated that this person may have a illness that knowone is aware of..
What sin is of God, and why does a demon need to possess a man for him to have an anger problem?
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/11/2008 8:37:07 AM
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lastblast
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
I do believe that either this is a mental illness or some very deep hurt that has never been dealt with and is coming out as anger.
T is also a very loving, generous person. She's always willing to lend a helping hand. She's also very intelligent.
I know this must be very hard on your whole family.  If she does not have some chemical/physiological problem, I think you may have hit on the issue. Many times "angry" people are merely very hurt people who exhibit anger due to defensiveness. If something "hurts" that injured area, they respond in anger. There is someone like that in my family too and we really have to tread lightly around this person---who is also a wonderful and giving person. I personally know the anger/lashing out is due to hurts that have never been dealt with and healed, so I pray..........and love when I get the opportunity.
I think confronting her in a loving way is a good thing, but then the ball is in her court. If she doesn't want to do anything about it, all you can do is Pray (which is a big thing). Blessings...........
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/11/2008 2:04:26 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
1) She won't seek professional help in getting a diagnosis.
2) May or may not agree to go to counseling again.
3) Mom and Dad don't want to do anything about the situation (I'll suggest that we go to a counselor for advice but really don't think that will do any good.)
4) My husband and I are extemely uncomfortable leaving things as they are but don't really know what to do. It may be worth you (and possibly your husband) going to see someone to perhaps learn how to deal with the situation when she is around your children.
I did mention 'learned behaviour' earlier and while no one else in the family may have displayed this anger you've all learnt how to be conscious of her anger ~ and she's learnt (I don't mean in a maniplative way) that her anger gets results ~ even if she doesn't want those results. She may be trapped in a pattern she doesn't know how to break free of.
I know that you mentioned your mother thought she may have bipolar. Going by what you've said, I doubt this, but you may not have given enough information. Bipolar is flavour of the month right now when it comes to mental health problems and I suspect too many are diagnosing themselves or others as bipolar based on one fact.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/11/2008 11:49:21 PM
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georgerobbyjr
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quote:
So my questions are... Should we send her an email, call and talk to her or just do nothing at all (as we've all been doing for years)? Should we just ignore the proverbial elephant in the room? Should we only address the issue when she blows up at us? Meaning should we do nothing and wait until she erupts in anger and then say something like "Please control your anger"? The only downside to that is that T will never get help and we are still exposed (our children included) to her anger?
It's hard to advise you on how frequently you should talk to your sister. What I can say with certainty is that if I were you, I'd keep her away from my kids. If you are almost scared of her (as you said in your 1st post) and she blows up every time you see her, it's hard to argue you should spend much time with her. I think keeping the distance you already have and sending her an email now and then is a good idea. I know she's your sister and you care about her but you shouldn't feel guilty about distancing yourself from her. It's probably the best thing for you and your family.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/12/2008 11:04:16 AM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
She believes that T is bipolar (mom work in behavioral health). The catch is that T does not believe in psychiatry.
<> Mom really doesn't want to approach T and about this because "she'll just get upset and won't want to do anything about it". My mom gets the brunt of T's anger most of the time from what I can tell.
<>T has problems with money, keeping jobs etc. If she keeps on this same path I'm afraid she will end up homeless. None of us could take her in because of this anger problem. Of course, we'd help her find a place. We've always helped her out financially over the years (namely my parents).
What you're saying here is T is flunking at life. Her family is pulling away from her because she's so toxic. She can't support herself, and her Christian status is doubtful based on her behavior (fruit inspecting - she sounds like the wrong list in Gal. 5). They have to keep rescuing her from the thing she refuses to talk about.
There's a verse in Proverbs (sorry, I'm running a scan and can't get to www.biblegateway.com) about don't rescue an angry person because you'll have to do it over and over. I hope I'm getting that right.
You could put a half a million in a trust so she can live off the interest the rest of her life (set up in a way so she can't touch the principle) and set up automatic bill paying for her. You can move her into your homes. You can let her live on the street. Or you can do an intervention and give her an ultimatum about getting help or losing family support (possibly because family members can only pay for themselves, their kids and not her, too). The thing she refuses to talk about and deal with is sucking her family dry and hurting them.
It looks to me (and there may be other choices) like she can suck you guys dry or she can be mad at you with a chance of change for the better. Maybe Tough Love is the way to go. Give her choices with consequences.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. It's hard on everyone. (((Hugs))) May God give you wisdom, dear heart.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/12/2008 11:46:08 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
So my questions are... Should we send her an email, call and talk to her or just do nothing at all (as we've all been doing for years)? Should we just ignore the proverbial elephant in the room? Should we only address the issue when she blows up at us? Meaning should we do nothing and wait until she erupts in anger and then say something like "Please control your anger"? The only downside to that is that T will never get help and we are still exposed (our children included) to her anger?
My suggestion is that you set up a date to sit down with your sister. You could then verbalize that because you love her so much, you are no longer willing to stand by and allow her destructive behavior to continue unchecked. Be prepared to give specific examples of her anger episodes and the repercussions they have caused...
i.e., "Last Thanksgiving you became furious and started screaming because Jimmy made an innocent comment about ________. As a result of your outburst, in order to protect our children, we had to leave the dinner Mom had slaved over all day. Your anger ruined what should have been a beautiful family gathering."
Follow this with your intentions...
i.e., "Unless you are willing to get help, my husband, children and I will no longer attend any family gatherings or functions where you are present. If you are willing to get help, we will support you all the way."
Because your sister has been given permission to behave this way(by the family's reluctance to confront her in any meaningful way), she will likely continue unless you are willing to help her realize she has a terrible problem and that there will now be serious consequences for her behavior unless she seeks help.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/12/2008 11:27:07 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_DBecause your sister has been given permission to behave this way(by the family's reluctance to confront her in any meaningful way), she will likely continue unless you are willing to help her realize she has a terrible problem and that there will now be serious consequences for her behavior unless she seeks help.
Kat is right. People continue to do things if it "works" for them.
Your family has sheltered your sister from the consequences of her behavior so she doesn't feel the need to change. Usually we do that so we can all get along, but in her case it's destructive.
I'm so sorry this is happening in your family; it must be terribly uncomfortable for everyone. Trust that God is allowing this and is going to bring great good from it as people respond to God's ways and wisdom and in His grace. It's not a lack of grace that tells someone they're hurting themselves and others, but grace that does it to bring good and not just hurt them back. I am praying tonight. God bless you guys.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/15/2008 1:03:38 PM
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Sadey
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Anger is a funny thing, its not an out of control thing like we believe. Our son could be in the middle of a huge fit and if the phone rang, he'd turn off the anger and answer it. Before we adopted him he was taught to vent his anger and now the professionals say that just makes it worse. We didn't believe in letting him vest but he sure tried.
Anger in your sister's case is probably manipulative, it gets her the results she wants and no one dares to confront her. Most rage is to either get our own way or to keep people away from us. .
She is also always the center of attention isn't she? Either she is blowing up and has everyone's attention or everyone is waiting for her to blow up. It must be hard to have a happy family time. Unfortunately no one cares enough about HER to confront her. They care more about keeping the so called peace but its not true peace. Tough love is tough but it is love.
I hope you can get some counseling for yourself so you can learn that there are ways to handle this without cutting yourself off from your family.
Not doing anything is not loving your sister or yourself. 
God bless you as you deal with this.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/15/2008 2:08:47 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
My greatest concern is that we will be going against my parent's wishes if we speak with T about these issues.
Well, it looks like the family is getting ready to practically disown her. Which would your parents prefer?
quote:
Not that we don't have good cause in this situation but I really don't want it to come to that.
Your sister is the one who is driving the division, with her selfishness and destructiveness. She will succeed in time.
quote:
As it stands right now, my mother is considering talking to T and asking her to go back to counseling.
And T will say no and that's the end of that. Except maybe a month-long temper tantrum to get even.
quote:
The only bad thing about that is my mother isn't very firm with T. Well, she can be sometimes but she doesn't set up clear boundaries and allows T to really disrespect her. So I really don't know how much good will be accomplished if it's left up to my mom.
Sure sounds that way. Have you talked to your pastor? It's his job to counsel you, and your family is showing cracks where it should be solid. I am praying today. (((Hugs)))
_____________________________
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/15/2008 2:31:41 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
quote:
The only bad thing about that is my mother isn't very firm with T. Well, she can be sometimes but she doesn't set up clear boundaries and allows T to really disrespect her. So I really don't know how much good will be accomplished if it's left up to my mom.
Sure sounds that way. Yep ~ and this is probably what T learnt early in life. If she threw a tantrum, mum and dad would give in to her. Whether she wants to or not, she's stuck because once you're set in a pattern, it's hard to break free of without help.
Perhaps you need to start getting tough with your parents too.
And perhaps you need to seek out a good therapist now, again, if not immediately for your sister, for the rest of the family who want an end to the way she is behaving. Sounds like your parents need to work to break out of the habits they've learnt too. Once your sister sees that her family still love her but are changing the way they treat her, she may find it easier to accept help and/or change her behaviour.
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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/15/2008 7:28:26 PM
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SuccessinTruth
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What Sadey and deermousie said. I have a son who has an anger issue, but you know what? When he can't get away with it, he doesn't throw the temper tantrum. And that's exactly what it is. Even though he's 33.
Anger is a sin and it's a choice. Yes, all of us Christians have out sin issues to deal with, so hopefully, we're praying, asking for forgiveness and the Lord's help. But with all of your comments, she's refusing to deal with this at all, although we can't know how she deals with it in her heart. I would definitely pray for her, and your mother. But your mother has to understand that she's not doing your sister any favors by tolerating this. Someday, she might lose her temper with the wrong person and Mom won't be able to help her.
In the meantime you've got to stop playing her game. At the very least, have everyone ignore her when she has an outburst. If she's going to act like a child, treat her like one.
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RE: Sister With Anger Problem - 9/15/2008 10:16:04 PM
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beachcooky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
I have a situation with my older sister that I'd like to get your opinions on. Let's call her T. She has been a Christian for many years. But ever since I can remember T has had an anger problem. She will blow up at the slightest thing and you never know when it's coming or who it'll be directed at (family, pizza guy, manager of a hotel etc.). Several years ago T blew up at our younger sister and they barely spoke after that for a couple of years. I was appalled at T's behavior during the blowup and afterwards. That blowup was so bad that my respect and view of her changed. She did all of this in front of my son who was ~7 or 8 at the time. Over the years her anger and lack of control seems to be getting worse. The latest blowup was directed (with NO instigation on his part) at my husband. He handled it in a very Christlike manner though. I was very proud of him. 
I don't speak to her very often because of her anger issues. We are all very tense during family get gatherings where she is present. She invariably blows up each and every time at some point during our visit. It's gotten so bad that after the last couple of blowups I am a little worried she might become physical one day. I am literally becoming scared of her anger. But I don't want to cut off all contact. I love my sister | | |
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