RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave alone.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 1:26:29 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
solo_soprano22
Eh, our guts are wrong sometimes. I notice on several occassions (Zam) that you tend to find something sexually deviant in something that really wasn't, but I guess it may be because of your background/work. This sounds like it was innocent for the most part, although he could have picked better words to say. Not every instance in which we have a feeling is what we thought it was. Sometimes we overanalyze. Heck, maybe he HAD to go fast; maybe he's older and he has a prostate problem. Maybe he has some kind of IC. Who knows?
I can understand your thinking, solo, yet nearly everytime I have dismissed my git, thinking it was wrong, it's been right. Yes, my perspective is distorted as a result of my profession. Yet, my profession has taught me that most of the time these "innocent" encounters are not so innocent. Ther are many details left out and we are only getting one side of the situation. I would like to think I might be guilty of overanylization. But, my experience has taught me differently.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 12:12:15 PM
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lightshineon
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Well I am not afraid or fearful ever. I am just not maybe I am just plain stupid, but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. The comment you can close your eyes, If you want to. The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 12:18:24 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well I am not afraid or fearful ever. I am just not maybe I am just plain stupid, but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. The comment you can close your eyes, If you want to. The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual.
Hmm....well, I guess you have answered your own question then. Perhaps your husband could go with you and have a talk with your boss and you could get some ground rules laid out such as: You don't go in the men's bathroom....ever. Just a thought.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 2:43:11 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
lightshineon
Well I am not afraid or fearful ever. I am just not maybe I am just plain stupid, but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. The comment you can close your eyes, If you want to. The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual.
That is your gut talking. Don't ignore it.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 3:22:43 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well I am not afraid or fearful ever. I am just not maybe I am just plain stupid, but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. The comment you can close your eyes, If you want to. The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual.
Hmm....well, I guess you have answered your own question then. Perhaps your husband could go with you and have a talk with your boss and you could get some ground rules laid out such as: You don't go in the men's bathroom....ever. Just a thought.
She doesn't need her husband with her. Plus, she is the employee, not him. Light can handle this quite well.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 5:05:27 PM
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earthless
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Let it go.. the guy just needed to pee.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 5:06:11 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
She doesn't need her husband with her. Plus, she is the employee, not him. Light can handle this quite well.
Hmmmmm......I guess that's why she started this thread 
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 5:34:11 PM
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sisrev
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well I am not afraid or fearful ever. I am just not maybe I am just plain stupid, but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. The comment you can close your eyes, If you want to. The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual.
Listen to your instinct--I, too have been in a workplace where I was the only woman, working in a construction setting around some pretty rough guys at times, and I don't know any of them who would have done this if I had happened to be in their bathroom for any reason. If it was a physical emergency, and they just absolutely had to go, they would have at least gone into a stall.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 6:09:50 PM
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mvic
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Whilst I understand what Zamdad and others are saying, I tend to agree with Earthless. Let it go.
The incident happened a few days ago, and presumably, you said nothing at the time. To bring the matter up now could well be misunderstood by management. They could well accuse you of mischief and trouble-making. At the very least they'll ask if it was such a big deal why did you say nothing until now. In the circumstances they may well give him the benefit of the doubt rather than you.
I would keep a written note of the event (date, time, what was said etc ...). Discuss it privately with a colleague you can trust. But don't take it further. If another incident happens in future, to you or someone else, at least there is a record of what happened to you.
I know you're very upset about it. And you have every right to be upset. But to take it further now carries more risk to you than him. Earthless and other like minded people are right to let it drop. Although I also respect Zamdad's points of view.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 6:19:23 PM
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Zhi
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I would agree to make a note of the date and all details you can remember, just in case he really *is* up to something.
I guess it's just that I would think, if he didn't know you were in the bathroom before he got there, that he was either physically desperate or an idiot. Probably both.
If he DID know you were there and did that... then yes, it's a problem.
I guess I feel that way because I've worked in a primarily male environment for about a decade, and even intelligent and nice guys can say really, really stupid things when they're not thinking about it. There are a few that I could have probably had hoisted on the petard of sexism and hostile workplace if I hadn't known that they would never say something like that intentionally and they didn't mean it "that way".
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 8:47:42 PM
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lightshineon
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He knew I was in there, I had the door proped open. I did run upstairs tell the sports reporter, he could tell I was upset. On this job, I try and become part of the wall paper. This is not a career goal. Zam dad, I agree with a gut feeling. I work in the creepiest old two story building at night with out fear, I am no coward or whimp. I just do a list of things left, and do a 20 hour a week job. I enjoy it, because I make my own hours. Cow thanks true, I will speak my mind (LOL), I will not say anything as of yet, but the first time in my whole life I felt I could be sexualy assulted/My husband would whip his tail, so I would not get him in the middle. He is very protective ( overly). Btw, I am not the type of woman who thinks every ( or any guy) is hot for me. Please I am not that type of a vain woman. I never notice things usually.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 8:58:19 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
He knew I was in there, I had the door proped open. I
If he's not normally there in the evenings, how would he know you were in there just because the door was propped open - was there a sign up or something?
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/9/2008 9:21:00 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
It's pretty clear that this happened after hours, and that Light's being told to put the papers in the restroom is done when no one else is supposed to be there. Light said
quote:
I am usually alone, and turn off the lights upstairs, downstairs, and lockup when I leave. There was a sport's reporter there at the time too, and from what she's said, sometimes other people are around. Given that no one knows exactly why Fred was there at that time of night, it's hard to judge his actions.
quote:
but it was an uneasy feeling I have never had before. Doesn't mean it was him that made you feel uneasy. He could have just been the last straw to how you were feeling on that particular night. You've already said the building is 'creepy'.
quote:
The want to was said in a way that was strange, angry, overtly sexual. I hate to say this... but I'm wondering how much you've thought about what he said and how much is your understanding of his tone. What did the sport's reporter say about it when you told him?
You work pretty much alone at night in a creepy building and one night a guy comes into the loo and proceeds to go pee. And it throws you and you find it somewhat distateful. It may be nothing more than that.
Sure the guy could have gone into a stall, but maybes he didn't think. We've all probably done something in our lives where we haven't thought about our actions. You said that you try and blend into the wallpaper in your job ~ not quite sure why since hardly anyone is ever there ~ but it sounds exactly like you've succeeded. He acknowledged you were there but accepted the fact that a woman does clean the loos.
They put signs on the doors here warning people that the loos are being cleaned by someone of the opposite sex, while they are being cleaned. Perhaps you could think about getting a similar one asking they use the ladies while cleaning and put it in the doorway?
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/12/2008 12:15:28 PM
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agapetos
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It was rude, it was bad manners, it was wrong, but I don't think it was sexual harassment.
Yes, he could have just as easily told her to leave but he either acted without thinking or even perhaps didn't want her to interupt her job. Many people are used to seeing cleaners in the toilets (either same sex or opposite sex) and it doesn't bother them to do their business infront of them.
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instead of just whipping it out in front of her. Kinda suggests she saw something but from her posts, I didn't see that she had (or missed it if she said so). He may have thought he wasn't doing anything wrong as she didn't see anything.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/12/2008 1:27:20 PM
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Ps103
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I am not convinced it was not sexual harrassment, but regardless of what it was, it was wrong, it was crass and it was humiliating.
Let us change the circumstances a bit. Let us say that it was not Light delivering newspapers to the restroom, but the cleaning lady with her mop and bucket.
Would a man not either seek a restroom that was not being cleaned, or at the very least go into a stall in that case? Or would he march up to the urinal and do his business, regardless?
Can you not see that in that case it would be treating the cleaning lady as less-than-human and not due any respect whatsoever?
Why do we not teach our sons to just go whereever the urge strikes them? In full view of everyone if they happen to be in eye hot when nature calls? Because they would be arrested for indecent exposure.
I am glad most men understand this.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/12/2008 2:03:32 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Would a man not either seek a restroom that was not being cleaned, or at the very least go into a stall in that case? Or would he march up to the urinal and do his business, regardless? One would like to think any man would do this when a woman was in the men's toilets to clean or put something in there.
quote:
it was wrong, it was crass and it was humiliating. And perhaps by this man, seeing the look on light's face, has realised that and won't do it again.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/12/2008 2:12:41 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
It was rude, it was bad manners, it was wrong, but I don't think it was sexual harassment.
quote:
instead of just whipping it out in front of her.
Kinda suggests she saw something but from her posts, I didn't see that she had (or missed it if she said so). He may have thought he wasn't doing anything wrong as she didn't see anything.
But I didn't think he exposed himself to her. That might be different. I thought he was just doing his business and she was there...or almost there.
I'm thinking perhaps he had to go badly and didn't pause to think of how to be most courteous in the situation.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/13/2008 12:06:42 PM
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lightshineon
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I appreciate your comments, and yes he whipped it out in front of me. I do think as some have noted he did it in a disrespectful manner. I also stated i am not awoman that thinks guy's are lusting after me. I do not have that high of opinion of myself. I conduct myself as a Christian and a lady at all times. I am happily married with a husband who is very complimentry, and that is all I need. I will not report this, this time. The sports reporter, a male was taken back, and said his wife would not strand for this. I am leary of him though like Zamdad, and others have said. I have never, once in my life working or other times had a feeling of being fearful of sexual assult.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
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Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/13/2008 2:16:35 PM
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Kath
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{{{Light}}}
I am really sorry this happened to you.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/13/2008 3:27:54 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
yes he whipped it out in front of me
Light, I've been lurking in this thread, not sure of what to say...but you didn't make this detail clear at first...
In light of that, yes, I think that was definitely harassment....he could have gone into a private stall and quickly shut the door if he was desperate.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/13/2008 5:23:46 PM
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solarflare
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Harrassement? No. Exposure? Yes.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/14/2008 3:02:13 PM
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lightshineon
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Thanks everyone, kath, His jewles, zam dad, ps103, and others, that did not make me feel vain for feeling uneasy. I will sit on this one for awhile, and see if anything else happens. I did the periodicals early Friday, when many were in the building. If you really knew me, you would know as cow stated, I can take care of myself, and I am not such a prude that, everything offends me. I am fearless about sexual assult, because my husband has been so protective, that I do not know for some reason, because of that, I just do not think about it much or at all. I do know if there is a next time I will be clear, and more firm and tell him. enough is enough. he graduated in 1979, however old that makes him.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
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Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/14/2008 3:11:23 PM
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Memaw.
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quote:
he graduated in 1979, however old that makes him.
47, which is plenty old enough to know better.
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RE: Is this sexual harassment, or something to leave al... - 9/14/2008 3:21:23 PM
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Zhi
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Yes, that detail wasn't clear...
I'm pretty sure indecent exposure is illegal in most states...
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