A Christian dilemma (Full Version)

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mvic -> A Christian dilemma (9/6/2008 6:27:22 PM)

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. Matthew 13:44

You are at a garage sale. You see a ring priced at $1. You realise it is very valuable - at least $1000.

My questions:

Surely Jesus is not condoning dishonesty here. Should the man who found the treasure tell the owner of the field about it?

Do you buy the ring at $1 and profit from your purchase; or do you tell the seller it's true value?



upNORTder -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/6/2008 8:53:47 PM)

If you pay the agreed upon price, how is that dishonest? Are you under some special obligation to be an appraiser? An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay you at the time. You could purchase the ring and find out it's plated and worthless.



Wild-Rose -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/6/2008 10:17:23 PM)

quote:

Should the man who found the treasure tell the owner of the field about it?


Was Jesus talking about real estate here, or was he teaching something else all together? Don't confuse the issue.

I would buy the item at the garage sale at an agreed upon price, then I would sell it again at an agreed upon price. If I make a profit then I have earned it fair and square. Buying low and selling high is an acceptable way to make a living. People do it all the time.

And finally, have you ever tried to give advice to someone at a flea market or garage sale? They look at you like you're crazy and tell you that they do not need your advice.



bboudrot -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/6/2008 11:08:15 PM)

$1 is an honest garage sale price.
$1000 is more of an auction price.
I'd say take it for $1.



car2ner -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/7/2008 8:13:01 AM)

true story.

I went to a Yankee Swap party many years ago and one guest had a huge leather firefighter's helmet. It had been in their barn for years and they simply wanted to be rid of it. The helmet got passed from guest to guest and no one wanted to take it home. Finally, one guest reluctantly took it with him. Next month he put it in a yard sale. A shopper saw the helmet, offered the posted price and went away very pleased at having struck a wonderful bargain.

Items are actually only worth what the customer is will to pay.

Now if the OP happened, I might, maybe, offer the sellers a bit of the extra money... perhaps. If it were a disgruntled ex selling off a wedding ring to be spiteful, probably not. If it were a young couple selling grandma's estate to help pay some bills, probably yes.



Memaw. -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/7/2008 11:32:42 AM)

I had a huge yard sale a few years ago and had a camper topper for a pickup truck in it.

I had no idea what the value of it was so I priced it at what I thought it was worth.
A gentleman saw my price and quietly informed me I was way under value for it, by about $400.
I ended up selling it an hour later for the price the gentleman told me was a fair price.

So, if it were me and I saw a valuable item for sale at a ridiculously low price at such a sale, I would tell the seller and not take advantage of his/her lack of knowledge.



iluvatar -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/7/2008 10:58:57 PM)

That's a tough question. I'm still hoping to find that '57 Les Paul that grandpa had sitting under his bed for 50 years... It's probably better to tell them.

From what I understand, at least in Massachusetts if you come across a situation like this and you're in the business of selling that sort of items (the exact conditions may be more broad), then you're obligated to inform the seller of the real value.

-Dan.



1love1God1way -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 12:55:44 PM)

The verse you posed is about receiving eternal life, salvation, something we don't deserve, a great treasure. . .

I'm not sure if it is to turned around and put into this type of practical application.



mvic -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 2:33:05 PM)

Thanx all for your replies. Very helpful.

Of course I meant no disrespect by quoting that verse in the Opening Post (as implied by 1love1God1way).

The point I'm asking: what if it were you? Would you tell the owner of the field there's a treasure there? Or would you buy the field and keep the treasure?

How honest should Christians really be?



Wild-Rose -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 3:29:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Thanx all for your replies. Very helpful.

Of course I meant no disrespect by quoting that verse in the Opening Post (as implied by 1love1God1way).

The point I'm asking: what if it were you? Would you tell the owner of the field there's a treasure there? Or would you buy the field and keep the treasure?

How honest should Christians really be?



Are you still insisting that the story in the Bible has something to do with garage sales?

Are you saying that buying low and selling high is dishonest?



doinkdom -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 4:06:51 PM)

I think the OP is saying that the owner has no clue as to the true value of the ring and if they did, they may not sell it or at least raise the price to something more appropriate.

Personally...I would take the owner aside and tell them. Not sure if there's really a right/wrong answer here.



drmark -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 4:26:12 PM)

True story - many years ago my then 14 yr old son found a gold foil Kobe Bryant rookie card (approx book value $250) at a card show in a box of commons marked for $10. He took it to the wife of the owner who was manning the display for her hubbie and specifically asked her if the price was marked correctly.When she assured my son that it was, he immediately paid the asking price and moved on to the next vendor. A few minutes later, I got a cell phone call from security asking me to verify my son's relationship to me. When I asked what was wrong, the officer said that the owner had returned to his display and was claiming that my son had "stolen" a valuable card from his display.

However, my son had the receipt and the original packaging both indicating $10. So as far as the officer was concerned, there was no problem on my son's part for the inaccurate labelling of the vendor's wares. Later that afternoon, my son and I talked over the situation and he decided on his own to return to the owner and offer him an additional $20 for his embarrassment. The vendor refused, having cooled down from his previous mistake, and asked my son to look at some other cards to identify any other grossly undervalued cards.

I guess all is well that ends well. BTW, the card is now worth over $750 after the recent Olympics.



mvic -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 6:45:02 PM)

Thank you Doinkdom and Dmark for your replies.

I suppose you're right in that there's no right/wrong answer. Whilst buying low and selling high is an acceptable business proposition, one's conscience perhaps doesn't (or shouldn't) allow the practice when it is obvious the seller has made a blatant mistake. I've been to many antique fairs and noticed items very under-priced.



SuccessinTruth -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/8/2008 8:08:02 PM)

The man sold all that he had. The treasure is priceless. He hid it because he couldn't bear not having it. The Kingdom of Heaven, is worth all that we have, it's priceless, and once we find it, we can't bear not having it. We have to get the point of the parable. By the way, we don't know what he paid for it, he sold all that he had, he can't pay more than that and he may have been a very rich man.



Bluethread -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/10/2008 7:20:04 PM)

I believe he is using our shrud behavior as an analogy to living as Adonai directs. Adonai has offered to bless us ten, a hundred and thousand fold, if we do as He directs. If this were a neighbor making the same offer, would we turn him away? Whether we would be taking advantage of our neighbor in that case is beside the point. Is it more just to doing nothing or to do that which provides benefit to both? That is the choice we are being given in this parable.



kernsfamily -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/11/2008 2:29:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. Matthew 13:44

You are at a garage sale. You see a ring priced at $1. You realise it is very valuable - at least $1000.

My questions:

Surely Jesus is not condoning dishonesty here. Should the man who found the treasure tell the owner of the field about it?

Do you buy the ring at $1 and profit from your purchase; or do you tell the seller it's true value?


I remember this type of "case"/situation from Law Class in College.

IN court....this is how it would likely be handled:

IF you're just "anyone", and just happen to know that it MAY be worth 'something'....then, it's all "good"....and, "buyer/seller" beware and all that kind of stuff.....

BUT, if you are a TRAINED "appraiser", and/or it's your "occupation".... (such as an antiques/jewelry dealer/gemologist)...or if you are highly trained and all that sort of stuff........you are obligated to notify the seller of the actual value, instead of using your knowledge of the item to take advantage of the seller's ignorance.



mvic -> RE: A Christian dilemma (9/11/2008 3:32:38 PM)

Thank you Kernsfamily, I was not aware of the legal position. It seems fair to me.

Is this enshrined in US law (I don't know about UK law - I'll check). Or is it just a code of ethics in the profession of antique and jewelry dealers etc ...

Thanx for taking the trouble to clarify.



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