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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 9:22:41 AM
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Consecrated2God
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Chiefwannahakaloogie,
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 2:13:18 PM
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raivyne
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My mom is a feminist (note - not an extreme feminist) At one time the feminist movement split into two schools of thought - the NOW folks (extreme feminists) and folks like phylis schafly (ladies who believe in the power of women). Feminist Fantasies by Phyllis Schlafly is a decent book also.
(edited by moderator for TOS 5)
< Message edited by Consecrated2God -- 9/12/2008 2:34:23 PM >
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 4:33:36 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Chiefwannahakaloogie,
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 4:41:51 PM
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raivyne
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sorry consecrated2God
much obliged you found a better way to describe that section of feminism!
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 5:04:29 PM
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ShutterBox
Posts: 1049
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ah... here's my opinion on what a feminist is.
Me being a single woman wanting to get out, be adventurous, and support myself until I get married and settle down doesn't make me a feminist.
It's these ridiculous women who want to be equal and special at the same time. They are the epitome of oxy-moron. They have no place in a functioning society because all they can do is disrupt everything in the name of "equality" for women with whining and complaining.... totally defacing the integrity of women everywhere who are content with being aloud to have good paying jobs and hold their place in society as respected individuals.
In the military, I'm going to be slammed with that pre-determined stereotype as being a woman who wants to fit in and beat down the boys and be better then them, with a huge chip on my shoulder. And that's sad, because I understand that I'm certainly not greater then them just because I have a vagina and PMS and can still make it through boot camp.
Now, in a Godly household, the man is the head. No, he's not a crazy slave driver ruling over everything you do. He is the leader spiritually and financially. No, this doesn't mean a woman can't go out and have a good paying job. This doesn't mean that the man is more spiritual and more connected with God then she is. It means the man is expected to be the Godly example, and he is to be the provider for the family, or just the two people(if no children or whatever). Two become one, not yours mine and ours, maybe.
Speaking outside of the marriage box, as single people, women are no less nor are they greater then men. We have our own rolls, and they have their rolls. We cannot cross over.
i think Feminism is a mindset. It is the illusion that men are always coming down on women, and then we are still being treated like 3rd class citizens, with no rights and no respect. This is hardly true. We as women are in a country that gives us equal respect and equal rights. We even have the upper hand it seems in some things. Has anyone been watching the news? We have had TWO women go for presidential and Vice Presidential offices in this single year. Granted, I don't give a flip if we have a woman in the white house. I want someone to run my country, not flaunt her title as "first woman president" or "first woman vice president". That does absolutely nothing for me as a citizen. And it does nothing for anyone else except maybe make them feel good.
Women should definitely be independent. However I completely disagree with the notion that a woman stays equal with her husband in being the leader, or that women should over throw men in society and be just as active and in charge as the men are. Sorry, it's biblically incorrect.
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 5:22:22 PM
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myka
Posts: 797
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Why is it assumed that the men are 'supporting' the family? I've known a lot of women who supported their family. In fact, my mil went into her profession so that she could support her family.
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RE: Feminist - 9/12/2008 5:34:12 PM
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ShutterBox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Why is it assumed that the men are 'supporting' the family? I've known a lot of women who supported their family. In fact, my mil went into her profession so that she could support her family.
apparently a few things are happening here:
A. she is single.
B. her husband does not work or can not work.
obviously, common sense does apply. Not everyone has their spouse forever, nor are circumstances always "normal".
I gather that everyone here is speaking generally, not getting into specific cases such as single women taking care of a her family, or perhaps a married woman with a disabled husband. If the man is lazy, that's a whole other issue, and shouldn't be called a man( nor a woman since we are hard workers to *generally speaking*)
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 12:04:18 AM
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PrincessButtercup
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I'm with the Chief too. I agree with her entirely.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 12:31:39 PM
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PrincessButtercup
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In Bible class at school one day, a girl and my teacher got into an argument about feminism. She brought up many of the things that have been discussed in this thread, and yeah a few of those points make sense. But the teacher made some statements that I will never forget. He talked about the importance of women in a marriage and household, and how special our job is, and how no one else can do it like we can. He went on to say that we're abandoning our God given positions to try to be on the same level as men in every way, but that's not how God designed it to be. We're putting too much emphasis on what we want instead of reading the Bible and finding out what He wants.
He created us to be helpmates to our fellas and submit and support our guys while they in turn provide for the family. I take great pride in the fact that He made me for such a purpose. I want to do what He has laid out for me in Ephesians 5, figuring God knows what He's talking about when telling us what to do. I look forward to helping my man and being his personal cheerleader while taking care of our home, raising our kid(s), and if there's the time and the chance then making a little extra money on the side.
_____________________________
I need you more than anyone, darlin'
You know that I have from the start
So build me up, Buttercup, don't break my heart...
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 12:37:37 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4220
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShutterBox
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Why is it assumed that the men are 'supporting' the family? I've known a lot of women who supported their family. In fact, my mil went into her profession so that she could support her family.
apparently a few things are happening here:
A. she is single.
B. her husband does not work or can not work.
obviously, common sense does apply. Not everyone has their spouse forever, nor are circumstances always "normal".
I gather that everyone here is speaking generally, not getting into specific cases such as single women taking care of a her family, or perhaps a married woman with a disabled husband. If the man is lazy, that's a whole other issue, and shouldn't be called a man( nor a woman since we are hard workers to *generally speaking*)
I don't understand this post at all.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 1:20:25 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10538
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessButtercup
In Bible class at school one day, a girl and my teacher got into an argument about feminism. She brought up many of the things that have been discussed in this thread, and yeah a few of those points make sense. But the teacher made some statements that I will never forget. He talked about the importance of women in a marriage and household, and how special our job is, and how no one else can do it like we can. He went on to say that we're abandoning our God given positions to try to be on the same level as men in every way, but that's not how God designed it to be. We're putting too much emphasis on what we want instead of reading the Bible and finding out what He wants.
He created us to be helpmates to our fellas and submit and support our guys while they in turn provide for the family. I take great pride in the fact that He made me for such a purpose. I want to do what He has laid out for me in Ephesians 5, figuring God knows what He's talking about when telling us what to do. I look forward to helping my man and being his personal cheerleader while taking care of our home, raising our kid(s), and if there's the time and the chance then making a little extra money on the side.
This post proves that you don't understand feminism and that you shouldn't follow someone simply because they are a teacher. And you are equating our culture's traditions of the 50s housewife with a biblical woman. I hate to break it to you, but the 50s housewife is no more biblical than me trying to become a police officer. A few points for you to consider:
1. Feminism is about choices & opportunities. It has nothing to do with being or not being a helpmate or the value in that. Nothing.
2. I am not married and don't have kids. The idea that somehow that means I have no value or purpose because I am not a helpmate to a man is not only wrong, but unbiblical. And I challenge you to show me using Scripture where I am wrong here.
3. Read about the Proverbs 31 woman. Really read it. That woman did a lot of things you might consider to be a "man's" job.
4. True feminism doesn't de-value a woman's role in marriage and as a mother. Unless you think a woman's role in marriage and as a mother means she shouldn't vote, she shouldn't be in business (contrary to what Proverbs 31 tells us), and she shouldn't get an education, etc. I hate to break it to you, but those votes, that education, that ability to earn money ALL can be a beautiful thing in marriage, as a mother and as a follower or Christ.
5. Could you explain to me, using Scripture, how me becoming a police officer is against Scripture and against how God designed me to be? Because I'm not doing this because I'm selfish and only care about me, me and me. I'm doing this after much thought and much prayer. God has been with me every step of the way. Again, use Scripture to show me how I am biblical in error.
6. Where in the Bible does it say that wives and mother's don't and shouldn't provide for their families? Can you show me a woman in Scripture who didn't?
7. Where in Scripture does it say that as a woman, God will solely and only call you to be a "cheerleader" for a man and a 50s housewife? (By the way - I am not dissing SAHM and such as I believe that is a beautiful thing). Are you saying that a woman who never gets married, cannot fulfill God's will for her life? Or that until you get married, you are not fulfilling God's role for you?
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 1:39:13 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5097
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No, it was written by her and posted on a friends blog... from what I can tell anyway.
I'm just going to agree with Crystal and Phosy on this one.
While my husband and I do practice more of a "mutual submission", I am still his helpmeet and I do still serve him within the home. But at the same time, it's not practical to expect every woman to absolutely stay at home and let her husband provide. My husband has a good job and would make enough for us to live on if we didn't have any debt and didn't want health insurance. However, it would irresponsible of us not to have health insurance and not to pay our debt, so for those 2 things I will continue to work.
Look at the Proverbs 31 woman, she was obviously bringing income into her household, much in the same way that alot of the women here are. I don't think it's being a "feminist" in the extreme sense of the word to say that there is not a "one size fits all" for marriage.
You really can't understand how that relationship works, or the dynamics of it until you are married. It's different even then just dating or even being engaged.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 1:44:40 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
Look at the Proverbs 31 woman, she was obviously bringing income into her household, much in the same way that alot of the women here are. I don't think it's being a "feminist" in the extreme sense of the word to say that there is not a "one size fits all" for marriage.
You really can't understand how that relationship works, or the dynamics of it until you are married. It's different even then just dating or even being engaged.
Quite right. Although a lot of pastors/churches would like to put women into tiny little boxes where they will never have an independent thought outside of their husband's approval and never make any trouble.
Trying to lay out an exact blueprint for how every marriage should work is not more then an attempt at controlling something that isn't yours to control.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 2:08:31 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 288
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From: Virginia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessButtercup
In Bible class at school one day, a girl and my teacher got into an argument about feminism. She brought up many of the things that have been discussed in this thread, and yeah a few of those points make sense. But the teacher made some statements that I will never forget. He talked about the importance of women in a marriage and household, and how special our job is, and how no one else can do it like we can. He went on to say that we're abandoning our God given positions to try to be on the same level as men in every way, but that's not how God designed it to be. We're putting too much emphasis on what we want instead of reading the Bible and finding out what He wants.
He created us to be helpmates to our fellas and submit and support our guys while they in turn provide for the family. I take great pride in the fact that He made me for such a purpose. I want to do what He has laid out for me in Ephesians 5, figuring God knows what He's talking about when telling us what to do. I look forward to helping my man and being his personal cheerleader while taking care of our home, raising our kid(s), and if there's the time and the chance then making a little extra money on the side.
So...me holding down a very well paying full time job isn't being a "helpmate"? I help support our home, our lifestyle, our grandchildren and my mother.
Regarding my "job"...do you mean to tell me that my husband can't do a load of laundry, can't cook a meal, can't care for the children? He gets to be like Ward Cleaver, come home, plant his posterior end on the couch and expect me to wait on him hand and foot?
No thanks...
We have our jobs at home, and the "roles" are really quite fluid...he picks up the slack when I work crazy long hours, and I do the same when he's working the long hours. We share, not 50-50 but 100-100. We both give to each other and our family.
IF we were to lose my income...we'd be up a creek without a paddle. Like I told someone else. I've seen his paycheck...I don't want to try to live on it.
NDY
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 2:55:54 PM
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LaurainAL
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I challenge anyone here to provide scripture that states that women (including those that are wifes and mothers) should not work outside the home. I really want to see it.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 4:19:44 PM
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PrincessButtercup
Posts: 7443
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Dang, you women are great at putting words in other people's mouths. 
I am not saying that if one isn't married, then she has no value or purpose. If God calls you to be single, then that's great! Continue doing what He wants you to do. But to those He has given a husband and kids, we need to take care of them. Proverbs 31 talks about how great a wife is that makes meals for her family and is industrious. That sounds kinda like a SAHM to me.
I was by no means saying that a woman shouldn't get a job or help out financially. Just that our primary purpose is to take care of our guys and our families. Proverbs 31 talks about a wife making investments and turning a profit from it, but the chapter discusses mostly work around the house. And sure, sometimes taking care of our families involves getting a job.
About waiting on the hubby hand and foot while he's relaxing in his recliner because of the command of submission, that isn't how it should be. God calls a husband to be respectful and loving towards his wife. Having her for a personal slave is far from respectful and loving. But that's probably for another thread.
Slightly off topic, but a lot of what I see in feminism is women going after the "American dream" of being rich and having all those extravagant things. But in the process, they get these big jobs and throw their kids in the hands of day care, after school care, and babysitters. I've seen so many families suffer because when mom is chasing money, her kids don't even know her anymore. I'm not accusing any one of you of this, but just stating an observation. But that's probably for another thread too.
_____________________________
I need you more than anyone, darlin'
You know that I have from the start
So build me up, Buttercup, don't break my heart...
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 4:24:52 PM
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christsstar
Posts: 5090
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I can be a helpmate and support and love my husband and submit to him, and still want to get equal pay for my equal work while in the world.
I would love more than anything to be a stay at home mom someday. But I know that by living in California, that isn't going to happen. It's just not practical for me and my almost hubby. I am OK with that right now. And I will help him around the house and be the help mate God designed for me to be. But I still will work outside the home and deserve to get paid the same as if I were a man with my same education and experience and work quality/skills.
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 4:38:37 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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From: California
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Some people believe Proverbs 31 implies a woman should stay home...
Some people believe Proverbs 31 implies a woman should work outside the home...
When I read the chapter....several things happen....
I feel tired......
I remind myself, she didn't do it all on her own....remember the little phrase about portions for her servant girls
I get really bugged about the implication that her lamp does not go out at night, and yet she rises early..my word, we all need our sleep..I need at least 7 hours, really 8...and I have finally come to the conclusion that the implication is she is to some extent "always aware" regarding her household, but she does get sleep.
and I come to the conclusion that that chapter is summarizing things done in a LIFETIME...not all in a day.....
and then I go find a passage that makes me a little more comfortable....
and there is my feeble attempt at humor, in order to provide y'all a little comic relief...
back to your regularly scheduled topic.
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-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Feminist - 9/13/2008 5:19:29 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4940
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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Since this thread seems to have turned into a discussion on Women's Roles, I'm going to close this one.
Please CLICK HERE for the Women's Roles thread.
Sincerely,
Lisa Luper
Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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