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Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 10:54:08 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
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So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 10:56:23 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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honestly, why bother being on a forum, if all you are going to do is agree...75% of the fun is the debate aspect...
and i guarantee that there will be no action in a forum where everybody agrees. just an observation of the past.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:02:48 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
honestly, why bother being on a forum, if all you are going to do is agree...75% of the fun is the debate aspect...
and i guarantee that there will be no action in a forum where everybody agrees. just an observation of the past.
Debate is one thing; 'cut throat', 'dog eat dog', demeaning of one another --- not counting the demeaning of those running; is something else all together.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:05:08 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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i am afraid that you will forever be in search then. the truth would be in reach too quick forever to be sparked enough for the forum to be alive. everybody would just agree.
like i said, i have experienced this in the past, and honestly it is no fun.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:13:56 AM
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Evangel70
Posts: 551
Joined: 10/28/2006
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I'm with you Pat-rebel lady. I have amazed at the amount of hatred and vitrol shown on this forum. Christians should be able to disagree in a civil manner without questioning another's faith simply because they believe differently than you do. I would never refer a christian to this forum as all it does is confirm stereotypes that christians are hypocritical, mean spirited and intoleratant.
If you find a christian site, drop me a PM.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:30:53 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
In my opinion, (insofar as politics is concerned)
It has come down to this -
Liberal Christianity
Against this -
Dominionism
Spiritual warfare indeed.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:32:17 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1290
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: online
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quote:
I'm with you Pat-rebel lady. I have amazed at the amount of hatred and vitrol shown on this forum. Christians should be able to disagree in a civil manner without questioning another's faith simply because they believe differently than you do. I would never refer a christian to this forum as all it does is confirm stereotypes that christians are hypocritical, mean spirited and intoleratant.
Well, at least you had no part in contributing to it.
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Molon Labe
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:56:14 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
Not to plug the competition, but you might Worthyboard:
http://www.worthychristianforums.com/terms-of-service.php
The reason they have little discussion strife over there is because anyone who offers factual criticism of george Bush, Republicans, or any soi-disant 'christian conservative' position is immediately banned.
if you like being herded like sheep, you'll like Worthy.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 11:58:54 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1290
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: online
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Also, I began liking the board a lot more again once I blocked people whose entire Christian walk, and posting history, is wrapped up in Current Events.
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 12:05:38 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 831
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
Maybe it would help to spell this out a little better.
Give some examples without necessarily providing names.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 12:47:51 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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People have got to realize that when you have discussions about politics it's gonna get heated. It's an emotional issue. Our experiences shape how we all approach the issues. Unfortunately our experiences shape how we see the other side. For many the issue is very black and white for abortion or against abortion. That's all they will ever see and that in America is their right. Others don't see it like that they see other issues. As much as I don't like some of the comments on this thread i believe people are trying the best way they know how to honor God in their voting. Because one votes democrat doesn't mean they are ill informed people who are for baby killings just as voting republican doesn't mean you don't care for the lowly and destitute.
In all discussions I would encourage everyone to remember Galatians 5 and the fruits of the spirit.
LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS,GENTLENESS AND SELF CONTROL.
The world is watching us, and they aren't seeing a Jesus that Loves, heals, or has grace.
In Him,
Greg
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 1:45:43 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
People have got to realize that when you have discussions about politics it's gonna get heated. It's an emotional issue. Our experiences shape how we all approach the issues. Unfortunately our experiences shape how we see the other side. For many the issue is very black and white for abortion or against abortion. That's all they will ever see and that in America is their right. Others don't see it like that they see other issues. As much as I don't like some of the comments on this thread i believe people are trying the best way they know how to honor God in their voting. Because one votes democrat doesn't mean they are ill informed people who are for baby killings just as voting republican doesn't mean you don't care for the lowly and destitute.
In all discussions I would encourage everyone to remember Galatians 5 and the fruits of the spirit.
LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS,GENTLENESS AND SELF CONTROL.
The world is watching us, and they aren't seeing a Jesus that Loves, heals, or has grace.
In Him,
Greg
I agree with you; this is/was my point; I would not need to look for another site if everyone that calls themselves Christian got back to:
Remembering "Galatians 5 and the fruits of the spirit.
LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS,GENTLENESS AND SELF CONTROL.
The world is watching us, and they aren't seeing a Jesus that Loves, heals, or has grace.”
Election 2008 - Current Events topics are like the Theology topics which generally receive much interest and heated discussions; I have nothing against this; I do however have a problem with posters who too often border-line TOS rule #6 […You will not harass, threaten, embarrass or distress users, either in the community itself … . You will not engage in name-calling or personal attacks in the course of discussion or debate. You will not post inflammatory remarks simply for the purpose for evoking reaction or starting fights with other community members (Often referred to as "trolling"). - Attacking the character or motives of someone who differs with your view or denying that he or she is a Christian is unacceptable. ] making excuse as to it being okay in heated discussions. It’s Not okay, whether they be a member of Liberal Christianity, Dominionism, or just trying to follow a biblical example of what they believe a Christian should look and act like.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 1:49:29 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7742
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
In my opinion, (insofar as politics is concerned)
It has come down to this -
Liberal Christianity
Against this -
Dominionism
Spiritual warfare indeed.
I really don't think the opinion of someone who posted and promoted what are now known to be all out lies of the most pernicious sort really matters all that much.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 1:59:30 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
Not to plug the competition, but you might Worthyboard:
http://www.worthychristianforums.com/terms-of-service.php
The reason they have little discussion strife over there is because anyone who offers factual criticism of george Bush, Republicans, or any soi-disant 'christian conservative' position is immediately banned.
if you like being herded like sheep, you'll like Worthy.
First of all, I don't consider other 'Christian' sites as the competition; Christians should be united for the good of all in all sites, not compete against one another.
Second, It doesn't look like a unbiased site.
Third, This "if you like being herded like sheep, you'll like Worthy." was an uncalled for comment. None-the-less, Thank you for your reply.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 2:18:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
People have got to realize that when you have discussions about politics it's gonna get heated. It's an emotional issue. Our experiences shape how we all approach the issues. Unfortunately our experiences shape how we see the other side. For many the issue is very black and white for abortion or against abortion. That's all they will ever see and that in America is their right. Others don't see it like that they see other issues. As much as I don't like some of the comments on this thread i believe people are trying the best way they know how to honor God in their voting. Because one votes democrat doesn't mean they are ill informed people who are for baby killings just as voting republican doesn't mean you don't care for the lowly and destitute.
In all discussions I would encourage everyone to remember Galatians 5 and the fruits of the spirit.
LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS,GENTLENESS AND SELF CONTROL.
The world is watching us, and they aren't seeing a Jesus that Loves, heals, or has grace.
In Him,
Greg
And what does the "WORLD" see when people that claim Christ support things like abortion and the homosexual agenda? How does was who votes for the person who supports such thing not support the agenda? Is there a place on the ballot to list what you support and don't support regarding the candidate and or party?
I am all for civil discussion but if it's going to come to down to tossing aside the truth in order to do what is the point?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 2:38:25 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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quote:
And what does the "WORLD" see when people that claim Christ support things like abortion and the homosexual agenda? How does was who votes for the person who supports such thing not support the agenda? Is there a place on the ballot to list what you support and don't support regarding the candidate and or party?
I am all for civil discussion but if it's going to come to down to tossing aside the truth in order to do what is the point?
I agree with you. My point is more that they see this and laugh. We as "Christians" can't even see eye to eye.
Also I think that people have to realize (please don't get me wrong, I detest abortion) but abortion is not the end all be all of a debate in some peoples opinions.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 3:11:25 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1981
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Second, It doesn't look like a unbiased site.
Pat, I think you're being a little too picky, here. If you're looking for forums where people are always nice and all forms of discourse are allowed, you're going to have a little trouble finding that. Perhaps it might be better to do something through your church, or a place where everyone actually has to talk in person sometimes. Facebook? People tend to be nicer when they see the picture of the person they're talking to.
quote:
The world is watching us, and they aren't seeing a Jesus that Loves, heals, or has grace.
An astute observation. It's too bad things have to be that way.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 3:51:58 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
quote ORIGINAL: :letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
Maybe it would help to spell this out a little better.
Give some examples without necessarily providing names.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
And what does the "WORLD" see when people that claim Christ support things like abortion and the homosexual agenda? How does was who votes for the person who supports such thing not support the agenda? Is there a place on the ballot to list what you support and don't support regarding the candidate and or party?
I am all for civil discussion but if it's going to come to down to tossing aside the truth in order to do what is the point?
Let me see if I can explain it this way; sorry its long:
In a recent interview, Emergent Church leader Brian McLaren was asked about abortion and homosexuality. As usual, he seems to dodge the homosexuality issue, stating his position is simply that those of different positions should a) accept that good Christians can disagree on the issue (try wrapping your mind around the proposition that two people can disagree on such a fundamental issue of human identity and both be faithful to Scripture) and b) dialogue (with him receiving a “state your position” pass).
However, his comments about abortion are what inspired this post. When I compare his statement that abortion is “not one of the most significant moral issues out there” with his book-length treatment of global climate change and quasi-socialistic economic policy (see, Everything Must Change), I get disturbed.
Following the 2004 elections, the new Democratic party leader, Howard Dean, explicitly stated that the Democrats were going to go after the evangelical vote. They would do this by talking more openly about “faith” and by attempting to show that Democrats care about “morality” as well.
Over the last 3 years, I’ve been watching as evangelical authors have, in one way or another, de-centralized this issue of abortion, making it just one more issue in a solar system of moral questions. I’ve listened as we’ve been told that we should not be “single-issue” voters. The long and short of it is this: Evangelicals have increasingly become comfortable with the idea of voting for a pro-choice candidate if she or he, for instance, has a “strong” position on “ending global climate change,” or “enacting ‘Fair Trade’ laws.”
Point 1: The issues of life, environmental stewardship and caring for the poor touch on core aspects of our faith. To each issue, Scripture offers clear command.
Point 2: The legislative response to each of these issues can be discerned with varying levels of certainty. That’s a bit thick. Let me break it down.
A) The Bible commands us to “care for the poor.” However, I believe that there can be real debate and potentially, good-faith disagreement on how that can best be accomplished. Those, like me, of a more conservative bent, believe that a socialistic policy of “required altruism” (i.e., requiring all citizens to provide a portion of their paycheck to the Federal Government and allowing that government to redistribute it) isn’t the best answer to poverty and, in fact, eviscerates true charity. Even among conservatives, there is a spectrum of opinion regarding the “right size” of a governmental safety net. Some say more; some say less. In any case, the logical connection between “caring for the poor” and “providing national health care for every child” is something open to debate, discussion and disagreement. CONCLUSION: While the biblical mandate to care for the poor is CLEAR, the legislative response is not. (and I would say the same applies to the question of environmental stewardship)
B) Unlike the issues of caring for the poor and environmental stewardship, I see a very close connection between the biblical teaching about human life and the legislative response required. [I’m not going to post an entire defense of the biblical teaching that abortion is wrong here. I’ll just assume most of us agree.] Scripture declares all humans to be “made in the image of God.” Abortion is the active taking of life. And in the last 30 years, well over 40 million lives have been taken in our country. That, by the way, dwarfs every genocidal rampage of the 20th century…PUT TOGETHER.
As far as I’m concerned, any politician who can look at the direct act of murder performed by an abortion doctor and declare it a “fundamental right” is morally deficient. That politician might have extensive positions on how we can affect the environment fifty years from now, but he has abandoned the RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW issue of human dignity.
Conclusion to Point 2: The Biblical teaching on issues like “caring for the poor” and “environmental stewardship” can be applied within a wide spectrum of legislative action. That is, there is not a virtually one-to-one relationship between the Christian ethic and Christian legislative position.
HOWEVER: The Biblical teaching on human life requires a pro-life legislative position. We should certainly seek MORE than the overturning of Roev.Wade, but to seek anything less is to lessen the horror of legalized murder. As Christians, halting the genocide of the last 30 years and seeking to heal those who have been scarred by its horror is central. While the jury is still out on how best to legislate on issues of poverty and environment, there is no question: Legalized abortion equals abortions.
I guess I just don’t understand McLaren’s thinking on this. While I believe we should certainly push for equitable economic policy, that we should continue to pursue the science of environmental change and consider the best legislative responses, I fail to grasp how he can consider the active taking of human life a “side issue.” I fail to grasp how he (and other evangelical leaders) can potentially legitimize the moral sensibilities of politicians who stand up for partial-birth abortion just because they have a cap-and-trade carbon emissions policy.
Maybe I’m missing something.
MCLAREN’S QUOTE:
Q. What’s your view of homosexuality and abortion? I know that’s a big question.
The first thing I’d want to say is that I don’t think they’re the two most significant moral issues in the world.
I believe in the sanctity of life, but I believe that our efforts should be toward reducing the need and desire for abortion on the front end by way of persuasion and education rather than putting our efforts on the side of legislation.
He, Brian McLaren, seems like he is advancing a straw man argument, suggesting that conservatives only care about abortion or "legislating" it, and then he can sound like the hip and relevant new wave preacher who is more "in touch" with the "big picture."
Of course we conservatives believe and understand that we have to touch hearts and minds and that doing so is far more effective than merely changing laws. But, in the meantime, good law (which Roe v. Wade is not) is necessary in order to restrain or train the hearts and minds of the lawless.
Every conservative Christian I know also supports adoption, compassion, support for unwed moms, and all of the holistic issues. We also care about good stewardship of the environment, fiscal responsibility, national security, upholding biblical marriage and family, and a host of other issues.
So, I do not appreciate McLaren's, and others like him in this forum, continued pandering to the secularists; there is a way to speak truth with love, or else the Bible wouldn't tell us to do so. But we do have to speak the truth, and that is not always popular in our culture. Some pastors and Christians are going to have to make some tough choices between being hip and being true.
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 4:33:39 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: online
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As I said emotions will play into this. There are so many debates as to where life begins (not a debate for this thread) and people feel passionately about it, on either side.
I feel you rpassion and I would urge you to pray for understanding. If Christians would stop reading all this garbage and got back to the Bible, the HOLY WORD of God then you would see all like mindedness. But to many people put their faith in a pastor rather than the Master.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 5:21:42 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
I am so sick and tired of people on here bashing people that they know good and well are Christians just because they have an opinion.
If a person dosent want to discuss politics then they shouldnt.
Just because someone agrees with one candidate more than another dosent mean they are being un-Christian!
STOP.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/3/2008 5:25:21 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1351
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
So as not to get accused (again) of changing a thread topic:
Does anyone know of another ‘Christian’ site where I can find a good decent amount of Civil [polite, obliging, not rude, courteous, respectful, well-mannered, cordial, genial] conversation for Current Events - Election 2008 ?
For the most part I can’t find these things here. What happened to you ‘Christians’? It looks like a Revolt -- a Civil War -- going on in these threads. If it looks like that now, what’s America going to be like after the Election? God help us all!!
In my opinion, (insofar as politics is concerned)
It has come down to this -
Liberal Christianity
Against this -
Dominionism
Spiritual warfare indeed.
It's only come down to those TWO things?
And, I am really for neither.
Hmm...Iam outta luck.
Iam simply a conservative....without the "Dominionism" aspect of it....as long as those who I vote for, and hopefully get elected, are for free-enterprise, free markets and capitalism....it doesn't make much difference to me what religion they are. Almost totally irrelevant.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Excuse Me - 9/4/2008 11:26:59 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
Pat, I hope you don't leave. Your opinion matters JUST as much as mine, or anybody else's. Don't let the "diversity" get you down!
Thank you, I greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness.
God bless you,
Pat
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All kidding aside, we as believers need unity in the essentials. Diversity in the non-essentials makes things interesting. But love in ALL things 
