quote:

To me this does not sound the actions of a just and loving God.

quote:

Natural disasters impact children and the elderly the most. They also disproportionally (by a huge margin) punish the poor over the wealthy.

To me this does not sound the actions of a just and loving God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

To me this does not sound the actions of a just and loving God.

Because they are not "the actions of a just and loving God"! They are the actions of well-defined geophysical forces and mechanisms occurring in a world degraded by human folly and sin. Is your real question why does God allow these events to occur, KaseyTom?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
My personal belief is that the earth is a stable and safe place for humanity to live and that the relatively small number of people who are impacted by natural disasters are simply victims of bad luck.

quote:

My personal belief is that the earth is a stable and safe place for humanity to live

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

My personal belief is that the earth is a stable and safe place for humanity to live

Given that the mortality rate on earth is infinitesimally less than 100%, you may want to revisit your personal belief system, KaseyTom. My personal belief assures me that heaven will be a much more "stable and safe place for humanity to live"!

quote:

My personal belief system is a product of my lifetime of experiences. If my experiences were the same as yours, I would have your belief system. If my experiences were the same as someone born in Pakistan, I would likely have an Islamic belief system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

My personal belief system is a product of my lifetime of experiences. If my experiences were the same as yours, I would have your belief system. If my experiences were the same as someone born in Pakistan, I would likely have an Islamic belief system.

Actually, our personal beliefs are a product of our choices; two people can grow up in the same family having the same experiences, and come to significantly different positions vis a vis a belief in God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

My personal belief system is a product of my lifetime of experiences. If my experiences were the same as yours, I would have your belief system. If my experiences were the same as someone born in Pakistan, I would likely have an Islamic belief system.

Actually, our personal beliefs are a product of our choices; two people can grow up in the same family having the same experiences, and come to significantly different positions vis a vis a belief in God.

quote:

One cannot "choose" to believe or not believe something.

quote:

One cannot "choose" to believe or not believe something. Try choosing not to believe in God for a day. Try choosing to believe that Obama would make a better president that McCain. Try choosing not to love your wife.

Any off these can things happen to you, and if it does it will be because experiences changed your perspective. You can make some choices that will limit the possibility of these experiences influencing you, but more often then not you will not have the foresight make make such choices.

quote:

Its a bit of both btw...we are neither wholly free nor wholly determined, as far as our capacity for freedom of action, thought and belief is concerned. There is a freedom within the constraints that our enviroment and experiences impose upon us.

As for the OP, no, natural disasters are not God's punishment or a result of His will. It is simply the result of "random" chances that some die while others don't from natural disasters. I don't see God's hand in any of that, other than the response of love and caring towards others, of determination and hope to carry on, that is elicited within those victims. THAT, if anything, is what God's role is in those situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Well, as a former agnostic who became a Christian (and evolutionist who now rejects evolution) I can catagorically state that one can choose to believe something or not believe it. I mean for a time as a child I believed that babies came directly out of a mothers stomach, until I read the appropriate article in the World Book Encyclopedia - which I chose to accept as true over my previous understanding.

quote:

OK... Can you choose to believe that babies come directly out of a mother's stomach for the next two weeks?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

I would say that the answer is no.

quote:

The poll is running 75% no at this point. If bad weather is not a punishment from God, is good weather or other fortunate regional occurrence (a strong national economy, a good crop) similarly NOT a benison from God?

What about at the finer scale?

Is getting cancer a punishment from God?
Is remission from cancer a benison from God?

If one's answer to all of these is no, then what does God do?
If one's answer varies, can you explain why you think God does some of these things, but not others?

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

I would say that the answer is no.

The poll is running 75% no at this point. If bad weather is not a punishment from God, is good weather or other fortunate regional occurrence (a strong national economy, a good crop) similarly NOT a benison from God?

What about at the finer scale?

Is getting cancer a punishment from God?
Is remission from cancer a benison from God?

If one's answer to all of these is no, then what does God do?
If one's answer varies, can you explain why you think God does some of these things, but not others?

quote:

Well I don't conceive of God as all-powerful, not in the traditional sense, so when someone asks me what does God actually do, I explain that I believe that God does not act coercively in this world (like a magician) but acts persuasively (calling us to love, forgive one another, calling us towards ends, or telos, that fulfill his GOOD purpose.) In a very real sense then God is limited in his action in the world. So although I don't think a hurricane has ANYTHING of God's fingerprint on it, like I said, I do think the religious and devotional response that causes people to rise above that tragedy, so to speak, THAT I see as God's working within people and within the event to bring about the best possible outcome in the face of tragedy. And that is a very powerful effect, more powerful than us mere mortals can muster up on our own. God is there beside us and within, suffering in the tragedy with us, comforting us, strengthening us, giving hope, and in that, demonstrates his power and love to us.

I think a big problem for classical theists is to explain that if God is all-powerful, in the coercive sense, then why does he does prevent abject tragedies to occur, if he can? It’s a simple question, but one that I think either forces to come to one of a number of possible conclusions: either God is not all-powerful, or God is not all-good. This is perhaps a better topic to be discussed in Christian Doctrine tho probably...

quote:

I think a big problem for classical theists is to explain that if God is all-powerful, in the coercive sense, then why does he does prevent abject tragedies to occur, if he can?

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

Benison = a spoken blessing or benediction. Thanks, es, I've learned a new word today although one might argue its correct usage in this context of divine action, rather than spoken blessing.